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My fish are dying and I cant find why!!!`
I had 13 lovely gold fish 3 weeks ago and am only left with 4. They one by one started to lay at the bottom of the tank. I then seperated the sick one to isolation where they began to gasp for air. (look like) Not long after it would die. This is very sudden and is killing all my fish one by one. can anyone help me please. naomi -- Gold_fish |
"Gold_fish" wrote in message .. . I had 13 lovely gold fish 3 weeks ago and am only left with 4. They one by one started to lay at the bottom of the tank. I then seperated the sick one to isolation where they began to gasp for air. (look like) Not long after it would die. This is very sudden and is killing all my fish one by one. can anyone help me please. Naomi, First things first...you stated the fish look like they are gasping. This is a typical symptom of a lack of dissolved oxygen in your water. 7-9ppm is adequate, but 10-14ppm is better. At 3-5ppm, fish will begin suffering and dieing. If I were you, I'd start aerating the water with a bubbler or manipulate your filter return to splash a bit. Now that we are aerating, what are your water parameters? Have you tested the water for ammonia? Do the fish have any obvious damage? Did you do a recent water change without fixing any chlorine or chloramines in the water? -- BV Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb I'll be leaning on the bus stop post. |
if it appears to be gasping check your water quality .. the first
suspect is ammonia... do a partial water change 30 -50 % if you have any sea / kosher / pickleing salt add a level teaspoon for every 100 gallons of water.. don't add table salt post back with more details.. Size of tank/pond type of filter water temps water test results |
"ajames54" wrote in message oups.com... if it appears to be gasping check your water quality .. the first suspect is ammonia... do a partial water change 30 -50 % if you have any sea / kosher / pickleing salt add a level teaspoon for every 100 gallons of water.. don't add table salt post back with more details.. Size of tank/pond type of filter water temps water test results A water change will be helpful if there is a water quality issue. I'd add the following recommendations... 1. Be sure to dechlor the new water 2. Don't add salt 2a. without knowing what your current salinity is 2b. because salt is not a cure all -- BV Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb I'll be leaning on the bus stop post. |
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:40:54 +0000, Gold_fish
wrote: I had 13 lovely gold fish 3 weeks ago and am only left with 4. They one by one started to lay at the bottom of the tank. I then seperated the sick one to isolation where they began to gasp for air. (look like) Not long after it would die. This is very sudden and is killing all my fish one by one. can anyone help me please. naomi Have the water tested and make 50% water changes. There may be a parasite, bacteria, fungus or virus working on the fish. The fish need to be examined more closely. |
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:40:54 +0000, Gold_fish
wrote: I had 13 lovely gold fish 3 weeks ago and am only left with 4. They one by one started to lay at the bottom of the tank. I then seperated the sick one to isolation where they began to gasp for air. (look like) Not long after it would die. This is very sudden and is killing all my fish one by one. can anyone help me please. naomi Have the water tested and make 50% water changes. There may be a parasite, bacteria, fungus or virus working on the fish. The fish need to be examined more closely. |
when people's fish are dying salt happens to be one thing they can do that isnt toxic
if the gills arent fried and right after water changes. Ingrid "Benign Vanilla" wrote: 2. Don't add salt 2a. without knowing what your current salinity is 2b. because salt is not a cure all ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
EMERGENCY
1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates 2. do the fish physical 3. change some or all of the water, if the gills arent fried add 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons. This can be increased to 3 teas. per 5 over a few days. Use rock salt with no additives. 4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action 5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method "ajames54" wrote: do a partial water change 30 -50 % if you have any sea / kosher / pickleing salt add a level teaspoon for every 100 gallons of water.. don't add table salt post back with more details.. Size of tank/pond type of filter water temps water test results ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
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On 23 Dec 2004 12:49:35 -0800, "export_a" wrote:
You might try looking at this site. http://www.fantasticfihpond.com I looked for the heck of it, can you tell me who wrote or compiled the book and the references used by chance? ~ jan ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~ -----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =----- |
On 23 Dec 2004 12:49:35 -0800, "export_a" wrote:
You might try looking at this site. http://www.fantasticfihpond.com I looked for the heck of it, can you tell me who wrote or compiled the book and the references used by chance? ~ jan ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~ -----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==---------- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =----- |
On or about Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:29:49 -0800, ~ jan JJsPond.us
wrote something like: On 23 Dec 2004 12:49:35 -0800, "export_a" wrote: You might try looking at this site. http://www.fantasticfihpond.com I looked for the heck of it, can you tell me who wrote or compiled the book and the references used by chance? ~ jan Tyler Gregory Hicks -- Crashj |
http://www.fantasticfihpond.com
who wrote or compiled the book and the references used by chance? ~ jan Tyler Gregory Hicks Crashj, do you have the book, and if so, what do you think? If I get some positive input from regulars on RP, I will suggest my club purchase it. ~ jan ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~ |
http://www.fantasticfihpond.com
who wrote or compiled the book and the references used by chance? ~ jan Tyler Gregory Hicks Crashj, do you have the book, and if so, what do you think? If I get some positive input from regulars on RP, I will suggest my club purchase it. ~ jan ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~ |
My fifteen goldfish died practically overnight last week. They had been
thriving in my pond for about 8 years. I think the reason was that the auto-fill device started to leak tap water into the pond at a rate fast enough to change 100% of the water in 24 hours. -- Don "Gold_fish" wrote in message .. . I had 13 lovely gold fish 3 weeks ago and am only left with 4. They one by one started to lay at the bottom of the tank. I then seperated the sick one to isolation where they began to gasp for air. (look like) Not long after it would die. This is very sudden and is killing all my fish one by one. can anyone help me please. naomi -- Gold_fish |
My fifteen goldfish died practically overnight last week. They had been
thriving in my pond for about 8 years. I think the reason was that the auto-fill device started to leak tap water into the pond at a rate fast enough to change 100% of the water in 24 hours. -- Don "Gold_fish" wrote in message .. . I had 13 lovely gold fish 3 weeks ago and am only left with 4. They one by one started to lay at the bottom of the tank. I then seperated the sick one to isolation where they began to gasp for air. (look like) Not long after it would die. This is very sudden and is killing all my fish one by one. can anyone help me please. naomi -- Gold_fish |
On or about Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:53:02 -0800, ~ jan JJsPond.us
wrote something like: http://www.fantasticfihpond.com who wrote or compiled the book and the references used by chance? ~ jan Tyler Gregory Hicks Crashj, do you have the book, and if so, what do you think? If I get some positive input from regulars on RP, I will suggest my club purchase it. It's a joke. He is the 'make millions from crappy real estate deals' guy. He appears to also be an engineer who does legitimate handbooks. I do not know if they are really the same guy, but the fish book looked like a scam with all the excess of enthusiasm. -- Crashj |
On or about Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:53:02 -0800, ~ jan JJsPond.us
wrote something like: http://www.fantasticfihpond.com who wrote or compiled the book and the references used by chance? ~ jan Tyler Gregory Hicks Crashj, do you have the book, and if so, what do you think? If I get some positive input from regulars on RP, I will suggest my club purchase it. It's a joke. He is the 'make millions from crappy real estate deals' guy. He appears to also be an engineer who does legitimate handbooks. I do not know if they are really the same guy, but the fish book looked like a scam with all the excess of enthusiasm. -- Crashj |
On or about Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:29:46 -0800, "Don"
dbitzerATcomcastDOTnet wrote something like: My fifteen goldfish died practically overnight last week. They had been thriving in my pond for about 8 years. I think the reason was that the auto-fill device started to leak tap water into the pond at a rate fast enough to change 100% of the water in 24 hours. I've got to think that a chlorine filter filter on an autofill is cheap insurance. I know my showerhead filter makes me feel better and I am only in there for a few minutes a day. -- Crashj |
On or about Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:29:46 -0800, "Don"
dbitzerATcomcastDOTnet wrote something like: My fifteen goldfish died practically overnight last week. They had been thriving in my pond for about 8 years. I think the reason was that the auto-fill device started to leak tap water into the pond at a rate fast enough to change 100% of the water in 24 hours. I've got to think that a chlorine filter filter on an autofill is cheap insurance. I know my showerhead filter makes me feel better and I am only in there for a few minutes a day. -- Crashj |
Crashj, do you have the book, and if so, what do you think? If I get some
positive input from regulars on RP, I will suggest my club purchase it. It's a joke. He is the 'make millions from crappy real estate deals' guy. He appears to also be an engineer who does legitimate handbooks. I do not know if they are really the same guy, but the fish book looked like a scam with all the excess of enthusiasm. The website sell sure did sound as you describe, hard sell. ~ jan ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~ |
wrote in message ... when people's fish are dying salt happens to be one thing they can do that isnt toxic if the gills arent fried and right after water changes. Ingrid "Benign Vanilla" wrote: 2. Don't add salt 2a. without knowing what your current salinity is 2b. because salt is not a cure all Another thing they can do is (are)... 1. Test the water to determine if any parameters are out 2. Do a water change, dechlored of course 3. Aerate I am not saying Salt is a no/no, but I don't agree that every solution should involved salt, ESPECIALLY, when it's a newbie asking for help. I can't count how many times, I have heard the solution to be salt, with amounts provided, and no body mentions checking the current salinity before adding the salt. This topic reminds of "My Big Fat Greek Weeding", your fish is sick? Just spray windex on it. -- BV Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb I'll be leaning on the bus stop post. |
wrote in message ... EMERGENCY 1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates 2. do the fish physical 3. change some or all of the water, if the gills arent fried add 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons. This can be increased to 3 teas. per 5 over a few days. Use rock salt with no additives. 4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action 5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method "ajames54" wrote: do a partial water change 30 -50 % if you have any sea / kosher / pickleing salt add a level teaspoon for every 100 gallons of water.. don't add table salt post back with more details.. Size of tank/pond type of filter water temps water test results This is a perfect example of the dangers of salt. Two posts, similar instructions, but way different numbers, and NEITHER post suggests checking the current salinity before adding more salt. Suppose this fish is dieing from the salinity being high? -- BV Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb I'll be leaning on the bus stop post. |
wrote in message ... EMERGENCY 1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates 2. do the fish physical 3. change some or all of the water, if the gills arent fried add 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons. This can be increased to 3 teas. per 5 over a few days. Use rock salt with no additives. 4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action 5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method "ajames54" wrote: do a partial water change 30 -50 % if you have any sea / kosher / pickleing salt add a level teaspoon for every 100 gallons of water.. don't add table salt post back with more details.. Size of tank/pond type of filter water temps water test results This is a perfect example of the dangers of salt. Two posts, similar instructions, but way different numbers, and NEITHER post suggests checking the current salinity before adding more salt. Suppose this fish is dieing from the salinity being high? -- BV Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb I'll be leaning on the bus stop post. |
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:11:23 -0500, "Benign Vanilla"
wrote: === wrote in message ... === EMERGENCY === 1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates === 2. do the fish physical === 3. change some or all of the water, if the gills arent fried add 1 ===teaspoon of salt === per 5 gallons. This can be increased to 3 teas. per 5 over a few days. Use ===rock salt === with no additives. === 4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action === 5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method === === "ajames54" wrote: === do a partial water change 30 -50 % === if you have any sea / kosher / pickleing salt add a level teaspoon for === every 100 gallons of water.. don't add table salt === === post back with more details.. === Size of tank/pond === type of filter === water temps === water test results === ===This is a perfect example of the dangers of salt. Two posts, similar ===instructions, but way different numbers, and NEITHER post suggests checking ===the current salinity before adding more salt. Suppose this fish is dieing ===from the salinity being high? The foolishness of it all, and one from a so called Expert. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wife, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:11:23 -0500, "Benign Vanilla"
wrote: === wrote in message ... === EMERGENCY === 1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates === 2. do the fish physical === 3. change some or all of the water, if the gills arent fried add 1 ===teaspoon of salt === per 5 gallons. This can be increased to 3 teas. per 5 over a few days. Use ===rock salt === with no additives. === 4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action === 5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method === === "ajames54" wrote: === do a partial water change 30 -50 % === if you have any sea / kosher / pickleing salt add a level teaspoon for === every 100 gallons of water.. don't add table salt === === post back with more details.. === Size of tank/pond === type of filter === water temps === water test results === ===This is a perfect example of the dangers of salt. Two posts, similar ===instructions, but way different numbers, and NEITHER post suggests checking ===the current salinity before adding more salt. Suppose this fish is dieing ===from the salinity being high? The foolishness of it all, and one from a so called Expert. Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com Opinions expressed are those of my wife, I had no input whatsoever. Remove "nospam" from email addy. |
Well...... if we're going to nit-pick. ;o) I'll add that one should post
their parameters here if they don't have a clue what the readings are telling them, before they do anything. If one does a water change when the ammonia is high, but the pH has crashed so it is not toxic, doing a water change with pH 7.1 & up, will turn that ammonia toxic and kill the fish almost post haste. The higher the pH the faster the kill. Check the parameters and report. Ammonia high, treat the ammonia (Amquell or similar) then do a water change using same product regardless of chlorine, chloramines, or none, in your replacement water. ~ jan See my ponds and filter design: http://users.owt.com/jjspond/ ~Keep 'em Wet!~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a To e-mail see website |
ammonia drives the pH up, but the lower the pH the safer the ammonia.
nitrites drive the pH down. salt helps prevent nitrite toxicity. if either is really high a big water change will remove enough that shifts in pH are going to be more than offset by the benefits of lower toxins. INgrid If one does a water change when the ammonia is high, but the pH has crashed so it is not toxic, doing a water change with pH 7.1 & up, will turn that ammonia toxic and kill the fish almost post haste. The higher the pH the faster the kill. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
salt levels in tap water do not exceed 0.1% (at least I havent heard of it.. mostly
they are in the 0.06% range). For people with sick fish waiting around to get the proper test kits is not what I consider prudent. as long as the gills are OK the salt can be run up to 0.3% for a couple days, so a mere 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons is really not going to drive the salt level excessively high. from 3 can be done safely without getting the water parameters, adding a bit of salt is safe without a test kits as long as the gills are healthy red. Ingrid EMERGENCY 1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates 2. do the fish physical 3. change some or all of the water 4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action 5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method This is a perfect example of the dangers of salt. Two posts, similar instructions, but way different numbers, and NEITHER post suggests checking the current salinity before adding more salt. Suppose this fish is dieing from the salinity being high? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
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wrote in message ... salt levels in tap water do not exceed 0.1% (at least I havent heard of it.. mostly they are in the 0.06% range). For people with sick fish waiting around to get the proper test kits is not what I consider prudent. as long as the gills are OK the salt can be run up to 0.3% for a couple days, so a mere 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons is really not going to drive the salt level excessively high. from 3 can be done safely without getting the water parameters, adding a bit of salt is safe without a test kits as long as the gills are healthy red. Ingrid EMERGENCY 1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates 2. do the fish physical 3. change some or all of the water 4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action 5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method This is a perfect example of the dangers of salt. Two posts, similar instructions, but way different numbers, and NEITHER post suggests checking the current salinity before adding more salt. Suppose this fish is dieing from the salinity being high? My point is that recommending the usage of an additive for a pond or tank is dangerous without first measuring the level of that additive in the water. Suppose the OP is a newb, and was told to add a teaspoon of salt to his tank everyday to help reduce a build up of nuetrinos in is active carbon filter media? At this point, his fish are dieing because they are living in a concentration of salt that would kill even the strongest potato chip. Then they come on here and say my fish looks sick, what should I do? Several people respond ADD SALT!!! I am not saying salt has NO place, but like any additive, it needs to be tempered, and I see very little tempering of salt. -- BV Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb I'll be leaning on the bus stop post. |
wrote in message ... salt levels in tap water do not exceed 0.1% (at least I havent heard of it.. mostly they are in the 0.06% range). For people with sick fish waiting around to get the proper test kits is not what I consider prudent. as long as the gills are OK the salt can be run up to 0.3% for a couple days, so a mere 1 teaspoon of salt per 5 gallons is really not going to drive the salt level excessively high. from 3 can be done safely without getting the water parameters, adding a bit of salt is safe without a test kits as long as the gills are healthy red. Ingrid EMERGENCY 1. check the water parameters: pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrates 2. do the fish physical 3. change some or all of the water 4. from the water parameters and physical decide on a course of action 5. if there is nothing specific, do the tub to tub method This is a perfect example of the dangers of salt. Two posts, similar instructions, but way different numbers, and NEITHER post suggests checking the current salinity before adding more salt. Suppose this fish is dieing from the salinity being high? My point is that recommending the usage of an additive for a pond or tank is dangerous without first measuring the level of that additive in the water. Suppose the OP is a newb, and was told to add a teaspoon of salt to his tank everyday to help reduce a build up of nuetrinos in is active carbon filter media? At this point, his fish are dieing because they are living in a concentration of salt that would kill even the strongest potato chip. Then they come on here and say my fish looks sick, what should I do? Several people respond ADD SALT!!! I am not saying salt has NO place, but like any additive, it needs to be tempered, and I see very little tempering of salt. -- BV Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb I'll be leaning on the bus stop post. |
http://www.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/pH-Ammonia.htm
"Ammonia is toxic to aquatic life and toxicity is affected by pond pH. Ammonia-nitrogen (NH3-N) has a more toxic form at high pH and a less toxic form at low pH, un-ionized ammonia (NH3) and ionized ammonia (NH4+), respectively. In addition, ammonia toxicity increases as temperature rises." A low pH doesnt make ammonia non-toxic, it makes it less toxic. And toxicity is increased as the pH approaches pH 9.0. http://www.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/LimingPondsAquaculture.htm here is graph comparing the pH shift of hard vs soft water (high vs low alkalinity). In sufficiently hard water the pH does not approach pH 9.0. pH crash (down) is usually brought on by really raunchy decaying organic material in gravel or some really serious toxins and is not going to be "fixed" with ammo lock. I cant imagine this happening in a pond unless there was no buffer system OR, the water is soft and acidic to start with. With acidic soft water dolomitic limestone is needed to provide an adequate and stable alkalinity/hardness. In the case of sudden pH crash people generally use some baking soda to bring the pH up out of kill range, add aeration until they can fix the problem (move the fish out and clean the pond and/or change the water and/or add more limestone to stabilize the hardness). when there are no test kits the only thing to do when fish are obviously in trouble is large water changes, or move the fish to fresh water. test kits may not show what the problem is anyway but waiting until the kits can be obtained may be fatal. Yes, ammo lock etc works, but I cannot imagine people having that quantity of stuff (and costly too) on hand to treat large ponds. People with soft water need to have a stash of dolomitic limestone (and dechlor if city water) on hand to treat the water during big water changes. Ingrid ~ jan JJsPond.us wrote: Perhaps, but in a pH crash, the filter quits working and the ammonia is non-toxic in the lower pH. If the water is changed with a higher pH, without treating the ammonia it turns it toxic. A large water can be very stressful. IMO, better to treat the ammonia, do a 20% change, check buffering adding baking soda if needed and add salt if nitrites are present. Prior to ALL that. Check all parameters and report, weigh all options expressed on usenet. ;o) ~ jan ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
there are some "additives" cannot hurt unless done way to excess. when fish are in
trouble and people dont have the "kits", adding a bit of salt, some dolomitic limestone (if the water is soft) or aeration cannot hurt. just like there is no downside to doing water changes. Anybody with really high salts is going to know it. an extra teaspoon per 5 gallons is not going to be significant. people with chronic problems with their fish are advised to have a complete kit including salt test kit. it is rare people have a problem with too high salt, the only ones I have heard about are those in specific places in the US who have water softeners AND the Na levels are off scale. Very rare. OK.. maybe somebody building a pond on the Utah salt flats. I only recommend moderate salt use 0.1% or less, I do not even recommend 0.3% for "treatment" which I think is high and excessive and difficult to get out of the pond fast if the fish are reacting badly. I dont know what a build up of neutrinos is as it applies to ponds. INgrid "Benign Vanilla" wrote: My point is that recommending the usage of an additive for a pond or tank is dangerous without first measuring the level of that additive in the water. Suppose the OP is a newb, and was told to add a teaspoon of salt to his tank everyday to help reduce a build up of nuetrinos in is active carbon filter media? At this point, his fish are dieing because they are living in a concentration of salt that would kill even the strongest potato chip. Then they come on here and say my fish looks sick, what should I do? Several people respond ADD SALT!!! I am not saying salt has NO place, but like any additive, it needs to be tempered, and I see very little tempering of salt. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
wrote in message ... http://www.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/pH-Ammonia.htm "Ammonia is toxic to aquatic life and toxicity is affected by pond pH. Ammonia-nitrogen (NH3-N) has a more toxic form at high pH and a less toxic form at low pH, un-ionized ammonia (NH3) and ionized ammonia (NH4+), respectively. In addition, ammonia toxicity increases as temperature rises." A low pH doesnt make ammonia non-toxic, it makes it less toxic. And toxicity is increased as the pH approaches pH 9.0. http://www.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/LimingPondsAquaculture.htm here is graph comparing the pH shift of hard vs soft water (high vs low alkalinity). In sufficiently hard water the pH does not approach pH 9.0. Great links, thanks. Very informative. I've added them to the directory on IHMP, http://ihmp.net/@/r. pH crash (down) is usually brought on by really raunchy decaying organic material in gravel or some really serious toxins and is not going to be "fixed" with ammo lock. I cant imagine this happening in a pond unless there was no buffer system OR, the water is soft and acidic to start with. With acidic soft water dolomitic limestone is needed to provide an adequate and stable alkalinity/hardness. In the case of sudden pH crash people generally use some baking soda to bring the pH up out of kill range, add aeration until they can fix the problem (move the fish out and clean the pond and/or change the water and/or add more limestone to stabilize the hardness). when there are no test kits the only thing to do when fish are obviously in trouble is large water changes, or move the fish to fresh water. test kits may not show what the problem is anyway but waiting until the kits can be obtained may be fatal. Yes, ammo lock etc works, but I cannot imagine people having that quantity of stuff (and costly too) on hand to treat large ponds. People with soft water need to have a stash of dolomitic limestone (and dechlor if city water) on hand to treat the water during big water changes. Ingrid snip I buy ammo-lock by the gallon every year. I have a leak in the stream of my pond, and therefore and forced to do water changes. :) So I dechlor often. IMHO, every ponder, should keep enough dechlor on hand to do a 50% water change in the case of a disaster. I've had such a disaster and was happy to have it on hand. A few examples of such products: Kordon Amquel, http://ihmp.net/@/u Kordon Amquel, http://ihmp.net/@/vu Pond Amquel, http://ihmp.net/@/us -- BV Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb I'll be leaning on the bus stop post. |
wrote in message ... there are some "additives" cannot hurt unless done way to excess. Salt being one of them. when fish are in trouble and people dont have the "kits", adding a bit of salt, some dolomitic limestone (if the water is soft) or aeration cannot hurt. just like there is no downside to doing water changes. Water changes without proper dechlor can be very dangerous. So again my point is made. Recommending any sort of treatment without proper supporting information is dangerous. Telling a newb to do a 50% water change without mentioning dechlor is as dangerous as saying add some salt. Anybody with really high salts is going to know it. I think that is a bad assumption, especially when it is common to see posts like, "My fish look funny, so I added some salt. Will this help?" an extra teaspoon per 5 gallons is not going to be significant. It's not the amount I am concerned with, but the wholesale recommendation to add it without fore knowledge of conditions. people with chronic problems with their fish are advised to have a complete kit including salt test kit. I think that is good advice for all pond owners, whether the people have chronic problems or not. :) it is rare people have a problem with too high salt, the only ones I have heard about are those in specific places in the US who have water softeners AND the Na levels are off scale. Very rare. OK.. maybe somebody building a pond on the Utah salt flats. I only recommend moderate salt use 0.1% or less, I do not even recommend 0.3% for "treatment" which I think is high and excessive and difficult to get out of the pond fast if the fish are reacting badly. I dont know what a build up of neutrinos is as it applies to ponds. snip A bit of humor, that's all. -- BV Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb I'll be leaning on the bus stop post. |
wrote in message ... there are some "additives" cannot hurt unless done way to excess. Salt being one of them. when fish are in trouble and people dont have the "kits", adding a bit of salt, some dolomitic limestone (if the water is soft) or aeration cannot hurt. just like there is no downside to doing water changes. Water changes without proper dechlor can be very dangerous. So again my point is made. Recommending any sort of treatment without proper supporting information is dangerous. Telling a newb to do a 50% water change without mentioning dechlor is as dangerous as saying add some salt. Anybody with really high salts is going to know it. I think that is a bad assumption, especially when it is common to see posts like, "My fish look funny, so I added some salt. Will this help?" an extra teaspoon per 5 gallons is not going to be significant. It's not the amount I am concerned with, but the wholesale recommendation to add it without fore knowledge of conditions. people with chronic problems with their fish are advised to have a complete kit including salt test kit. I think that is good advice for all pond owners, whether the people have chronic problems or not. :) it is rare people have a problem with too high salt, the only ones I have heard about are those in specific places in the US who have water softeners AND the Na levels are off scale. Very rare. OK.. maybe somebody building a pond on the Utah salt flats. I only recommend moderate salt use 0.1% or less, I do not even recommend 0.3% for "treatment" which I think is high and excessive and difficult to get out of the pond fast if the fish are reacting badly. I dont know what a build up of neutrinos is as it applies to ponds. snip A bit of humor, that's all. -- BV Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com Check out the IHMP forums, ihmp.net/phpbb I'll be leaning on the bus stop post. |
sodium thiosulfate. 5 lbs 12.99 enough to do thousands of gallons.
http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/.../5688/cid/1598 "Benign Vanilla" wrote: I buy ammo-lock by the gallon every year. I have a leak in the stream of my pond, and therefore and forced to do water changes. :) So I dechlor often. IMHO, every ponder, should keep enough dechlor on hand to do a 50% water change in the case of a disaster. I've had such a disaster and was happy to have it on hand. A few examples of such products: Kordon Amquel, http://ihmp.net/@/u Kordon Amquel, http://ihmp.net/@/vu Pond Amquel, http://ihmp.net/@/us ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
sodium thiosulfate. 5 lbs 12.99 enough to do thousands of gallons.
http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/.../5688/cid/1598 "Benign Vanilla" wrote: I buy ammo-lock by the gallon every year. I have a leak in the stream of my pond, and therefore and forced to do water changes. :) So I dechlor often. IMHO, every ponder, should keep enough dechlor on hand to do a 50% water change in the case of a disaster. I've had such a disaster and was happy to have it on hand. A few examples of such products: Kordon Amquel, http://ihmp.net/@/u Kordon Amquel, http://ihmp.net/@/vu Pond Amquel, http://ihmp.net/@/us ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
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