"Anthropy" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the info.
When you say shells, do you mean shells I would find on the beach? or
is there a specific type I should use?

## Any shells. Or you can use limestone rock or crushed coral. I use
limestone rock since I get it for free where I live.

So, firstly I should add some baking soda, how much? whilst waiting
for the shells to kick in.

## This is why I would never recommend BS to a newbie. I know several cases
where they added a little too much and killed half the fish in their ponds
or fishrtanks before they realized there was a "problem." You have to add
a small amount and check the PH in about 5 minutes, add more, check again,
add more, check again.... better yet get some crushed coral or limestone
gravel at the local pet store.

We do add water to the pond in Summer if the water level is noticeably
down, in the Autumn and Winter we tend to leave it to the rain.

## You really need to be doing partial water changes at the very least every
month - with fresh dechlorinated water. You also should at have some type
of aeration if you don't want a filter.
--

Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 20:24:24 -0600, "~ Windsong ~" P@P wrote:

## This is why I would never recommend BS to a newbie.

He posted all the water quality measurements, so I'd hardly call this one a
"newbie". And he has had the pond for 5 years.... granted he had other
interests than reading all the latest reports on ponding during those 5
years..... so now we're bringing him up to speed. I've already concluded
he's a quick study.

I know several cases
where they added a little too much and killed half the fish in their ponds
or fishrtanks before they realized there was a "problem."

IME, that's usually because there was ammonia in the system and they made
it toxic by bringing the pH up. It wasn't the baking soda, imo. I had my
lily pond reading a pH below 7.0 and I ran that pH up with BS at 8.0 and
even the tadpoles didn't mind. It was better than the fluctuation of not
enough buffer.

The recommendation of BS is a sound one, as he showed no Ammonia. Also BS
last, it isn't like vinegar, gone in 12-24 hours. The only thing that
degrades it is the filtration process, natural or man-made. Slower with the
former.

## You really need to be doing partial water changes at the very least every
month - with fresh dechlorinated water. You also should at have some type
of aeration if you don't want a filter.

If the fish load is kept down by the natural process of feeding only what
the pond can provide, he's fine. After all, this pond has run for 5 years
without any maintenance. I think the OP was in the UK? Therefore no extreme
temperatures of hot or cold. All he needs to do, IMHO, after the problem of
buffer is solved is do those water changes. If he doesn't have a pump,
overflow, and protect the pond from leaves in the fall and keep the bottom
clean.

Btw, once the bottom is clean from the major muck out needed. A shop vac
(wet/dry vac) periodically run along the bottom when pond is full will keep
the bottom fairly clean. So you don't have to go thru the major muck out
again.... hopefully. ) ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

~ Windsong ~ wrote:

The shell solution would take weeks - during which
time there'd still be large pH swings.

# Weeks? It took a few days in my 150 gallon inground kiddy-pool. You
dint use enough perhaps?

OK, I'll bow to your experience - I haven't tried it, but I really didn't
think it would work so fast.

Baking soda won't cause any pH
shock that the fish aren't already enduring on a twice-daily basis,

# You can't know that unless you're THERE measuring the BS and pH of the
water with this newbie.

I _can_ know that. He's not going to kill his fish (with pH shock) by
dumping in baking soda. Jan figured it would take a cup to fix a buffer
problem. He could throw the whole box in there, and it wouldn't _harm_ the
fish. If he's got pH swings that are enough to shock the fish, I can
guarantee you that _at the high end_ he's in the vicinity of the pH that
will be assured by baking soda. Throwing in the baking soda will stop the
swings and set the pH between 8 and 8.4.

That said, there is the issue of ammonia. _if_ he's got ammonia, that needs
to be fixed before playing with pH - but there's been no hint of that.
--
derek

you would be well advised to go to KOIPHEN.COM if you really and
truly need correct info and no shotgun treatment method, in a forum
where there are no self appointed gods and goddesses where the folks
would see right thorugh this bunch with their theorys and treatments
they push!

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:27:14 GMT, Anthropy wrote:

===Hi.
===Thanks to everyone for your help.
=== Although I did lose one more fish none have died in 8 days. I feel
===the problem may have been in feeding them in winter so no food till
===march. I'm also halving the amount of fish in the pond and by reading
===this group have picked up many tips and hints that I really should
===have known before undertaking a pond, like the shells in the pond etc
===Once again , thanks.

"Anthropy" wrote in message
...
Hi.
Thanks to everyone for your help.
Although I did lose one more fish none have died in 8 days. I feel
the problem may have been in feeding them in winter so no food till
march. I'm also halving the amount of fish in the pond and by reading
this group have picked up many tips and hints that I really should
have known before undertaking a pond, like the shells in the pond etc
Once again , thanks.
------------------------------------
I'm glad to hear everything is going so much better for you. :-)
I just cleaned out one of my 150 gallon inground kiddy pools and
as soon as it's a little warmer will put no more than 4 or 5 adult goldfish
in it
along with some plants. A small pump wrapped in window screen acts
as a filter and feeds the small waterfall (aeration.)
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"When I feed the poor, they call me a saint; when I ask
why they are poor, they call me a communist. "
~~~~~~~ }((((((o
"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Mon, 21 Feb Windsong ~" wrote
under Please Help (so I took the liberty to move under a different title):

------------------------------------
I'm glad to hear everything is going so much better for you. :-)
I just cleaned out one of my 150 gallon inground kiddy pools and
as soon as it's a little warmer will put no more than 4 or 5 adult goldfish
in it along with some plants. A small pump wrapped in window screen acts
as a filter and feeds the small waterfall (aeration.)

You go girl. Had a nice day here, I could have done a little
bit outside, but had other errands. Still, I wouldn't had gone so far as to
play with water. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Feb Windsong ~" wrote
under Please Help (so I took the liberty to move under a different title):

------------------------------------
I'm glad to hear everything is going so much better for you. :-)
I just cleaned out one of my 150 gallon inground kiddy pools and
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
as soon as it's a little warmer will put no more than 4 or 5 adult
goldfish
in it along with some plants. A small pump wrapped in window screen
acts
as a filter and feeds the small waterfall (aeration.)

You go girl. Had a nice day here, I could have done a little
bit outside, but had other errands. Still, I wouldn't had gone so far as
to
play with water. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~
=====================================
It was a beautiful day here. Like spring. Actually I've been working on
this pool on warm days for awhile now. The rock necklace was about the only
thing left to finish... and it was so pretty outside. All the daffodils
are coming up and are full of buds. Hyacinths are coming up. The pansies
are blooming. I can't wait for spring. :-)
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Anthropy" wrote in message
...
Hi.
Thanks to everyone for your help.
Although I did lose one more fish none have died in 8 days. I feel
the problem may have been in feeding them in winter so no food till
march. I'm also halving the amount of fish in the pond and by reading
this group have picked up many tips and hints that I really should
have known before undertaking a pond, like the shells in the pond etc
Once again , thanks.

Glad to hear things are working out for you. The group on rec.ponds is often
very reciptive to new questions and old questions alike. If you have them,
ask them!


--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.