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Big crane kills all my fish!
Second time now , i give up! Are you allowed to shoot cranes in NJ ?
After first time i put a 3ft. section of 4in pvc pipe in pond , some one told me that will let fish escape killer crane! It don't work! I saw that giant bird eating my fish , but it was too late to save Huhey , Dewy , louy , & spot! R.I.P. ! BILL |
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:27:35 -0500, wrote:
Second time now , i give up! Are you allowed to shoot cranes in NJ ? After first time i put a 3ft. section of 4in pvc pipe in pond , some one told me that will let fish escape killer crane! It don't work! I saw that giant bird eating my fish , but it was too late to save Huhey , Dewy , louy , & spot! R.I.P. ! BILL A Scarecrow worked for me. Installed one after I lost a Koi. http://www.kissingfrogs.tv/scarecrow.html Steve J. Noll | Ventura California (USDA Zone 10) | The Glass Block Koi Pond/Fountain: | http://www.kissingfrogs.tv |
wrote in message ... Second time now , i give up! Are you allowed to shoot cranes in NJ ? $ No! They're protected by law. You cannot kill them. You can net your ponds as we did - or someone else here will tell you what worked for them. Cranes weren't our problem, the herons, king fishers, bullfrogs, mud turtles and large water snakes were. We lost hundreds of dollars worth of fish before resorting to those fine black bird nets. After first time i put a 3ft. section of 4in pvc pipe in pond , some one told me that will let fish escape killer crane! $ That's an old wives tale. I also had places for them to hide. The bird will wait patiently for them to leave their hideout, then just swoop them up! Birds are a lot smarter than fish. It don't work! I saw that giant bird eating my fish , but it was too late to save Huhey , Dewy , louy , & spot! R.I.P. ! BILL -- McKoi.... the frugal ponder... "To persevere in one's duty and be silent, is the best answer to calumny." ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o |
No, you can't kill migratory birds, huge fine (sometimes
$5000, possible jail time) - takes away from pond dollars and pond time. Was your bird a heron, steel blue in color, buff colored neck, some black on head, if old enough will have a black crest, long beak. Doesn't matter really as it is a fish eater all the same. You can - use an electric shock pet fence - motion activated sprinkler - net your pond -surround your pond with fishing line, especially in the area where the bird lands ALL these will work. It just depends on your particular pond, how it is situated, how your yard is set up and your particular heron. You may have to experiment. Good luck and let us know how it goes. We like to hear success stories! kathy :-) |
You can shoot and kill cranes and other migatory birds such as herons
if they are destroying property. Here's how: Call USDA Wildlife Services at 303-236-8171 and explain to them that you are filing a migatory bird depredation permit application and need form 37. Explain to them that a crane (or whatever bird) is destroying your property and you would like to destroy it. Once you get form 37 go to http://forms.fws.gov/3-200-13.pdf , fill it out and send it in. Once you get your permit you'll be able to destroy the bird legally. Sam |
Hi Sam,
I always thought this was available only to persons who suffer significant economic loss, like fish farmers. That said, I went and read the permit and it does say you have to really have tried nonlethal means and you have to continue nonlethal means. So then I called the number and left a message (past working hours in Denver) and asked specifically about backyard ponds and koi keeping. Also wondering what kind of lethal means would be available to your average suburban pond owner? Should be interesting what I hear back! kathy :-) |
Hi Kathy,
Property is property. A $5.00 koi to you might be a $1,000 koi to someone else. Many wildlife laws have provisions to kill animals if they are destroying private property. For instance I routinely use the provision in the hunting code to allow me to trap animals that are causing damage in my wildlife reserve. Usually the only provision is that you cannot keep the animal's body. For instance I can't catch mink out of season and make a coat out of them. They are either turned over to the game commission or thrown out. While I try to keep animals alive and use deterrents whenever possible if they are destroying things there comes a point where they must be destroyed. Sam kathy wrote: Hi Sam, I always thought this was available only to persons who suffer significant economic loss, like fish farmers. That said, I went and read the permit and it does say you have to really have tried nonlethal means and you have to continue nonlethal means. So then I called the number and left a message (past working hours in Denver) and asked specifically about backyard ponds and koi keeping. Also wondering what kind of lethal means would be available to your average suburban pond owner? Should be interesting what I hear back! kathy :-) |
Hi Sam,
A $1,000 koi I can understand! Though if I was putting a $1,000 koi outside I'd design something pretty dang safe before ever letting a heron draw a bead on it. But most of us had no idea herons even existed until we put in our ponds. And I have no problem with animals that you describe. I'm just really interested in what they'll say about my feeder fish and $5.99 koi in my backyard. I had a heron pay me a visit last week. Huge bird. The watergardening labradors alerted me to his visit and when I opened the slider he flew away. What a treat! He hasn't come back that I know of as the fish seem to be up on the surface lazing around every afternoon. kathy :-) |
"kathy" wrote in message ups.com... Hi Sam, A $1,000 koi I can understand! Though if I was putting a $1,000 koi outside I'd design something pretty dang safe before ever letting a heron draw a bead on it. But most of us had no idea herons even existed until we put in our ponds. And I have no problem with animals that you describe. I'm just really interested in what they'll say about my feeder fish and $5.99 koi in my backyard. I had a heron pay me a visit last week. Huge bird. The watergardening labradors alerted me to his visit and when I opened the slider he flew away. What a treat! He hasn't come back that I know of as the fish seem to be up on the surface lazing around every afternoon. Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread disturbing? We put in ponds, put in fish and create perfect feeding grounds for local inhabitants, and then we want to kill the inhabitants? This reminds me of the "bear problem" in MD. People are bulldozing forests in Western MD, building houses and then complaining about the bears eating their garbage and terrorizing their peaceful forest side burbs. It's a people problem, not a bear problem. -- BV Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com http://www.iheartmypond.com Help IHeartMyPond.com, by doing all of your eBay shopping via our eBay Affiliate Link: http://www.kqzyfj.com/click-1609574-10357516. It doesn't cost you anything, but an extra click! |
"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message ... "kathy" wrote in message ups.com... Hi Sam, A $1,000 koi I can understand! Though if I was putting a $1,000 koi outside I'd design something pretty dang safe before ever letting a heron draw a bead on it. But most of us had no idea herons even existed until we put in our ponds. And I have no problem with animals that you describe. I'm just really interested in what they'll say about my feeder fish and $5.99 koi in my backyard. I had a heron pay me a visit last week. Huge bird. The watergardening labradors alerted me to his visit and when I opened the slider he flew away. What a treat! He hasn't come back that I know of as the fish seem to be up on the surface lazing around every afternoon. Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread disturbing? We put in ponds, put in fish and create perfect feeding grounds for local inhabitants, and then we want to kill the inhabitants? This reminds me of the "bear problem" in MD. People are bulldozing forests in Western MD, building houses and then complaining about the bears eating their garbage and terrorizing their peaceful forest side burbs. It's a people problem, not a bear problem. Yes, I find it disturbing, as well. I like to encourage all forms of wildlife, although I'm thankful my dog keeps the raccoons from coming in the cat door. I have yet to put in the big water garden, and when I do, I'll probably not put in anything the waterbirds from the lake would view as food, so they can drop by and I won't feel torn to protect the fishies. |
"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
... "kathy" wrote in message ups.com... Hi Sam, A $1,000 koi I can understand! Though if I was putting a $1,000 koi outside I'd design something pretty dang safe before ever letting a heron draw a bead on it. But most of us had no idea herons even existed until we put in our ponds. And I have no problem with animals that you describe. I'm just really interested in what they'll say about my feeder fish and $5.99 koi in my backyard. I had a heron pay me a visit last week. Huge bird. The watergardening labradors alerted me to his visit and when I opened the slider he flew away. What a treat! He hasn't come back that I know of as the fish seem to be up on the surface lazing around every afternoon. Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread disturbing? More the attitude: If it bothers us, we can/shoud kill it. :( Yes, I know there are times when that is necessary, but I'm guessing "convenience" or "protect my perfect surburban lawn" is the reason a heckuva lot more often than protect the crops that feed my family. We put in ponds, put in fish and create perfect feeding grounds for local inhabitants, and then we want to kill the inhabitants? I would kill to get a crane or heron stop by! Of course, I only have minnows and goldfish (and frogs and toads) in my ponds, and they have places to hide (PVC pipe, plastic crates, vegetation), so even if my entire stock got eaten, it wouldn't be a tragedy. This reminds me of the "bear problem" in MD. People are bulldozing forests in Western MD, building houses and then complaining about the bears eating their garbage and terrorizing their peaceful forest side burbs. It's a people problem, not a bear problem. Yep. -- BV Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com http://www.iheartmypond.com Help IHeartMyPond.com, by doing all of your eBay shopping via our eBay Affiliate Link: http://www.kqzyfj.com/click-1609574-10357516. It doesn't cost you anything, but an extra click! Gail |
"Gail Futoran" wrote in message ... "Benign Vanilla" wrote in message ... "kathy" wrote in message ups.com... Hi Sam, A $1,000 koi I can understand! Though if I was putting a $1,000 koi outside I'd design something pretty dang safe before ever letting a heron draw a bead on it. But most of us had no idea herons even existed until we put in our ponds. And I have no problem with animals that you describe. I'm just really interested in what they'll say about my feeder fish and $5.99 koi in my backyard. I had a heron pay me a visit last week. Huge bird. The watergardening labradors alerted me to his visit and when I opened the slider he flew away. What a treat! He hasn't come back that I know of as the fish seem to be up on the surface lazing around every afternoon. Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread disturbing? More the attitude: If it bothers us, we can/shoud kill it. :( Yes, I know there are times when that is necessary, but I'm guessing "convenience" or "protect my perfect surburban lawn" is the reason a heckuva lot more often than protect the crops that feed my family. We put in ponds, put in fish and create perfect feeding grounds for local inhabitants, and then we want to kill the inhabitants? I would kill to get a crane or heron stop by! Of course, I only have minnows and goldfish (and frogs and toads) in my ponds, and they have places to hide (PVC pipe, plastic crates, vegetation), so even if my entire stock got eaten, it wouldn't be a tragedy. I would feel bad, even for goldfish since they react to human presence, should they become a snack. Do you think your fish are protected enough with the hiding places you've provided? |
"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message ... Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread disturbing? We put in ponds, put in fish and create perfect feeding grounds for local inhabitants, and then we want to kill the inhabitants? This reminds me of the "bear problem" in MD. People are bulldozing forests in Western MD, building houses and then complaining about the bears eating their garbage and terrorizing their peaceful forest side burbs. It's a people problem, not a bear problem. ================= Yes, it's disturbing. We had similar problems with farmers and new home owners here in some rural areas. People will buy a new home (in subdivisions) adjoining a farm, knowing it's a farm and will have animal aromas - then complain to the County the "stench" is sickening them, there are flies, the tractor wakes them at 5 AM, they have no quality if life..... This just seems to be human nature. Rather than harm the wildlife we netted the ponds and breeding pools. There are 3 *OPEN* pools of goldfish culls and extra plants for the frogs, newts and other critters native to our area. -- McKoi.... the frugal ponder... "To persevere in one's duty and be silent, is the best answer to calumny." ~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o |
Always been a problem and seems to be getting worse, the clash of
wildlife and human population needs. We lived in and amongst the bears when we lived in Northern Canada. They'd walk down the main street and we'd take the alley way. Seemed to be the prudent thing to do. We had a dachshund who thought she was hot stuff, take no prisoners, let me at that mailman, I'll rip him to shreds, type of dog. Her nest was right beside the porch door. When the bears came up on the porch to partake of the garbage smorgasbord she never uttered a single bark, growl or woof. Her reputation as a Tough Dog took a hit after that... kathy :-) |
"kathy" wrote in message oups.com... Always been a problem and seems to be getting worse, the clash of wildlife and human population needs. We lived in and amongst the bears when we lived in Northern Canada. They'd walk down the main street and we'd take the alley way. Seemed to be the prudent thing to do. We had a dachshund who thought she was hot stuff, take no prisoners, let me at that mailman, I'll rip him to shreds, type of dog. Her nest was right beside the porch door. When the bears came up on the porch to partake of the garbage smorgasbord she never uttered a single bark, growl or woof. Her reputation as a Tough Dog took a hit after that... I might take a different view if there were bears about, so thankfully, a friendly dog keeps most of the wildlife out of the house. Something does root around in the yard at night for grubs and I suspect it's a possum. "The wise dachshund considers the advantage of concealment." - Sun Shih Tzu |
I don't think there is really anything to worry about with John Q
Public getting his Form 37 approved. Its not that easy........Back when I was n the USAF, we had an Owl take up residence in the suspended insulation in one of our aircrafts shelters. The opwl was making one heck of a mess, and keeping an aircraft in that shelter proved to be problematic. Bird droppings and the mess they make caused lots of problems on a 17.6 million dollar fighter jet. Even being a government agency, they submitted a form to get the permission to eliminate this owl......2 1/2 months later they get their form returned DISSAPROVED. They had failed to take other steps prior to submitting the form, and merely taking the life of the owl on a one time deal was not sufficient for getting approval. After months and months they finally waited until the owl had left for its evening hunt, and closed up all openings in the shelter........erradicated the nest it made in the ceiling area, and kept the building closed for a while...Owl moved on and found a new nest site. It was done during the time of year when the owl did not have young, and was merely using the shelter / hanger as a base of operations. And to all those who wish a crane or heron would stop by their pond, send me your address and I'll see what I can work out for you in getting your wish come true...So far so good with my pond, as its been some time since I have had a problem with herons. Lots of outside activity makes them nervous. Moving things around from time to time also helps, as they do not particularly like a setting that things are constantly changing in. I do not net, use sprinklers or fishing line. I do have three gators that I move around periodically and IMHO they do seem to work. We have lots of herons in this area all year round. Its been a long long time since I lost any fish to a bird or even seen a heron around my ponds. On 15 Mar 2005 15:21:33 -0800, wrote: ===You can shoot and kill cranes and other migatory birds such as herons ===if they are destroying property. Here's how: === ===Call USDA Wildlife Services at 303-236-8171 and explain to them that ===you are filing a migatory bird depredation permit application and need ===form 37. Explain to them that a crane (or whatever bird) is destroying ===your property and you would like to destroy it. === ===Once you get form 37 go to http://forms.fws.gov/3-200-13.pdf , fill it ===out and send it in. Once you get your permit you'll be able to destroy ===the bird legally. === ===Sam ============================================== Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked! |
No call back today. But noticed the head of the
Fish and Wildlife resigned today so maybe everyone is too busy. Also had someone tie me up on the phone for an hour. kathy :-) |
"small fish" wrote in message
news:1110999587.bb418436744f5ed1975ee3bc36a94d55@t eranews... "Gail Futoran" wrote [snip] I would kill to get a crane or heron stop by! Of course, I only have minnows and goldfish (and frogs and toads) in my ponds, and they have places to hide (PVC pipe, plastic crates, vegetation), so even if my entire stock got eaten, it wouldn't be a tragedy. I would feel bad, even for goldfish since they react to human presence, should they become a snack. Do you think your fish are protected enough with the hiding places you've provided? Yeah, I do. So far I haven't lost any goldfish, but it's hard to tell about the minnows. My stock remains fairly constant, even with babies, but who knows what is culling them? Probably snakes, or even backyard birds. Or old age. I don't think minnows live all that long. Gail |
"kathy" wrote in message oups.com... Always been a problem and seems to be getting worse, the clash of wildlife and human population needs. We lived in and amongst the bears when we lived in Northern Canada. They'd walk down the main street and we'd take the alley way. Seemed to be the prudent thing to do. We had a dachshund who thought she was hot stuff, take no prisoners, let me at that mailman, I'll rip him to shreds, type of dog. Her nest was right beside the porch door. When the bears came up on the porch to partake of the garbage smorgasbord she never uttered a single bark, growl or woof. Her reputation as a Tough Dog took a hit after that... kathy :-) smart little dog I would say |
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