I think I have one of these. My LFS sold me a
pretty shubunkin a couple years ago. It grows
faster than the goldfish/comets/shubunkin it shares
a small pond with, it has a long flowing tail and
barbels. Body size is about 6" (hard to get it to
hold still next to a ruler g). Colors are
predominantly orange and black with some
splotches of white, and a mostly black tail. I
have tried to find more information on these
fish but googling turns up sites that:
1) are mostly commercial, and want me to download
huge JPG files that my relatively slow connection
takes forever to deal with;
2) have really dark backgrounds so my elderly
trifocaled eyes have a hard time reading the black
on dark color background (so I give up g);
3) direct me to a useful FAQ that is -- empty.
I've also done the groups.google.com search but
haven't found useful info. yet.

What I'd really like to know from someone who
has these fish in their pond is:
1) mature size (my largest filtered tank is only 150
gallons) and about how long it takes to get there
(i.e. when do I need to get a new pond ready g)
2) water volume needs (the same as other koi
varieties? - so 1000 gal minimum?)
3) food - they get TetraPond variety sticks, whole
wheat bread, orange slices and any insects they can
catch. Okay or not?
4) any other critical information for someone who
otherwise has only a few goldfish and rosey red
minnows in three smallish ponds (all under 300 gal).

Thanks - Gail
near San Antonio TX Zone 8
(yep, there's a koi retailer not far from me but
I prefer to ask for info. here first)

"Gail Futoran" wrote in message
...
I think I have one of these. My LFS sold me a
pretty shubunkin a couple years ago. It grows
faster than the goldfish/comets/shubunkin it shares
a small pond with, it has a long flowing tail and
barbels. Body size is about 6" (hard to get it to
hold still next to a ruler g). Colors are
predominantly orange and black with some
splotches of white, and a mostly black tail. I
have tried to find more information on these
fish but googling turns up sites that:
1) are mostly commercial, and want me to download
huge JPG files that my relatively slow connection
takes forever to deal with;
2) have really dark backgrounds so my elderly
trifocaled eyes have a hard time reading the black
on dark color background (so I give up g);
3) direct me to a useful FAQ that is -- empty.
I've also done the groups.google.com search but
haven't found useful info. yet.

What I'd really like to know from someone who
has these fish in their pond is:
1) mature size (my largest filtered tank is only 150
gallons) and about how long it takes to get there
(i.e. when do I need to get a new pond ready g)
2) water volume needs (the same as other koi
varieties? - so 1000 gal minimum?)
3) food - they get TetraPond variety sticks, whole
wheat bread, orange slices and any insects they can
catch. Okay or not?
4) any other critical information for someone who
otherwise has only a few goldfish and rosey red
minnows in three smallish ponds (all under 300 gal).

Thanks - Gail
near San Antonio TX Zone 8
(yep, there's a koi retailer not far from me but
I prefer to ask for info. here first)

By your description, it certainly sounds like you have a butterfly koi. I have
two butterfly koi that have the exact same coloration and markings as you
describe here. If it has barbels, it certainly isn't a shubukan. When it
passes 9 inches in length, you will certainly know that it is not a shubukan.
Butterfly koi get very large (up to 3 feet), so even your largest tank will not
be big enough for this fish. My largest butterfly koi is about 2 years old and
is already a foot long. You are eventually going to have to either buy a much
larger tank, build a pond for it, or sell/trade it for something else. They
need 1,000 gallons minimum.

"Gail Futoran" wrote in message
...
I think I have one of these. My LFS sold me a
pretty shubunkin a couple years ago. It grows
faster than the goldfish/comets/shubunkin it shares
a small pond with, it has a long flowing tail and
barbels. Body size is about 6" (hard to get it to
hold still next to a ruler g).
=============
It sure sounds like a butterfly koi to me. They get quite large and are not
really suitable for aquarium life. They need a pond of at least 800 to 1000
gallons.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

I have several butterfly koi, and one born in my pond. The oldest fish in
my ponds is a butterfly, and the one born in the ponds is now 5 years old.
All are over 24 inches, with some approaching 30 inches. They do not follow
the rule that they will only grow to the size of the pond, as well as most
other fish. I took 3 from a ponder that had a 220 gallon preform pond, and
they had grown to almost 24 inches.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"Gail Futoran" wrote in message
...
I think I have one of these. My LFS sold me a
pretty shubunkin a couple years ago. It grows
faster than the goldfish/comets/shubunkin it shares
a small pond with, it has a long flowing tail and
barbels. Body size is about 6" (hard to get it to
hold still next to a ruler g). Colors are
predominantly orange and black with some
splotches of white, and a mostly black tail. I
have tried to find more information on these
fish but googling turns up sites that:
1) are mostly commercial, and want me to download
huge JPG files that my relatively slow connection
takes forever to deal with;
2) have really dark backgrounds so my elderly
trifocaled eyes have a hard time reading the black
on dark color background (so I give up g);
3) direct me to a useful FAQ that is -- empty.
I've also done the groups.google.com search but
haven't found useful info. yet.

What I'd really like to know from someone who
has these fish in their pond is:
1) mature size (my largest filtered tank is only 150
gallons) and about how long it takes to get there
(i.e. when do I need to get a new pond ready g)
2) water volume needs (the same as other koi
varieties? - so 1000 gal minimum?)
3) food - they get TetraPond variety sticks, whole
wheat bread, orange slices and any insects they can
catch. Okay or not?
4) any other critical information for someone who
otherwise has only a few goldfish and rosey red
minnows in three smallish ponds (all under 300 gal).

Thanks - Gail
near San Antonio TX Zone 8
(yep, there's a koi retailer not far from me but
I prefer to ask for info. here first)

DOH! My wife loved the little 3" butterfly koi so much she brought home 3
of them. I told her that was a mistake as they get quite large. Guess that
means I get a bigger pond!!!! I never knew it would be that simple...



"Gail Futoran" wrote in message
...
I think I have one of these. My LFS sold me a
pretty shubunkin a couple years ago. It grows
faster than the goldfish/comets/shubunkin it shares
a small pond with, it has a long flowing tail and
barbels. Body size is about 6" (hard to get it to
hold still next to a ruler g). Colors are
predominantly orange and black with some
splotches of white, and a mostly black tail. I
have tried to find more information on these
fish but googling turns up sites that:
1) are mostly commercial, and want me to download
huge JPG files that my relatively slow connection
takes forever to deal with;
2) have really dark backgrounds so my elderly
trifocaled eyes have a hard time reading the black
on dark color background (so I give up g);
3) direct me to a useful FAQ that is -- empty.
I've also done the groups.google.com search but
haven't found useful info. yet.

What I'd really like to know from someone who
has these fish in their pond is:
1) mature size (my largest filtered tank is only 150
gallons) and about how long it takes to get there
(i.e. when do I need to get a new pond ready g)
2) water volume needs (the same as other koi
varieties? - so 1000 gal minimum?)
3) food - they get TetraPond variety sticks, whole
wheat bread, orange slices and any insects they can
catch. Okay or not?
4) any other critical information for someone who
otherwise has only a few goldfish and rosey red
minnows in three smallish ponds (all under 300 gal).

Thanks - Gail
near San Antonio TX Zone 8
(yep, there's a koi retailer not far from me but
I prefer to ask for info. here first)

I don't know if this is true or not, but I have heard that butterfly
koi are slower growers than standard koi and that they are less
destructive too. I can tell from my personal experience that they
might be smaller - my koi supplier mentioned that his butterfly tend to
be smaller than standard koi of the same age and my smallest koi is a
butterfly even though it was larger than most of the standard koi when
I bought them 2 years ago.

I don't know if they are less destructive or not. With mine I saw it
positioned in a nearly vertical position attacking a harmless pot so I
don't know if they really are less destructive. (The lily that lived
in it had already been knocked out by another koi) Maybe the extra
long fins intefere with the fish's trashing motions so they don't have
quite the same amount of destructive power on the plants - sortof a
"spirit is willing but the flesh is weak" kind of situation

I have also heard that butterfly koi are hardier than standard koi due
to the Indonesian carp genetics they contain. This didn't turn out to
be true in my case as my only fish to die since I bought them all 2
years ago was a butterfly.

I think they look much nicer than the standard koi and I wish I had
used all butterflies 2 years ago.

"scs0" wrote in message
oups.com...
I think they look much nicer than the standard koi and I wish I had
used all butterflies 2 years ago.
=========================
As mine grow they must be culled out. I cull out the short finned koi in
favor of the butterfly koi. Someday I will only have butterflies in the
ponds. ;-)
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

On 29 Apr 2005 19:31:27 -0700, "scs0" wrote:

I don't know if this is true or not, but I have heard that butterfly
koi are slower growers than standard koi

It's all genetics, so it depends on the breeding.

and that they are less destructive too.

IME, I've found this to be true, but with any koi though, if you buy it 8"
and up and it has never been in a planted pond, it may very well think all
plants are salad for its culinary enjoyment.

I have also heard that butterfly koi are hardier than standard koi due
to the Indonesian carp genetics they contain.

That's what I've heard, but any koi can be killed by inexperience. My first
koi to die was a beautiful butterfly, all due to my inexperience. :-(

I think they look much nicer than the standard koi and I wish I had
used all butterflies 2 years ago.

I'm down to having only 2 regular fin koi, and one of those already has a
buyer. The other I'll keep as he is 10 years old and hasn't grown over 10"
in the time I've had him. Remember what I said about genetics? He should be
used as a dwarf koi breeding project. ;-)

This year I sold my oldest and biggest butterfly, because in a 1,000 gallon
pond it was just too small. She was well over 24" and it was just
ridiculous for me to keep her. She went to a nice pond, 5,000+ gallons just
minutes away from me, so I can go visit. :-) She is doing well. I'd also
like to add she was really easy to catch. I didn't have a tub big enough,
so I actually was able to catch her with my koi sock net. I'm sure the
short fin won't be so easy. ~ jan

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

Many thanks to all for the responses. I will continue
to monitor my butterfly koi, and if/when it gets too
big for the present tank, will either move it into
something much larger, or trade it. I suspect the
local koi retailer will have some suggestions.
If mine grows like one of Jan's, I don't think I
want to contemplate a 5000 gallon tank!

Gail
near San Antonio TX