rose question
 

Our area had a great deal more rain this spring than is normal. Then
later in the summer, we had some of the hottest days ever. Now it
appears that some of my roses reverted to wild roses or something. They
have stems that are 7-9 feet tall and no roses. Is it possible for
roses to change types? If they do, do they ever go back?

"lvflowers" wrote in message
oups.com...
Our area had a great deal more rain this spring than is normal. Then
later in the summer, we had some of the hottest days ever. Now it
appears that some of my roses reverted to wild roses or something. They
have stems that are 7-9 feet tall and no roses. Is it possible for
roses to change types? If they do, do they ever go back?

Most modern roses are grafted. The part above the
bud union (the scion) is the rose you want; the part
below (understock) is there to provide hardiness
and/or to protect from certain critters in the soil.

If the bottom rose is allowed to take over, you have
permanently lost the top rose. It's called "reversion".
The trick is to cut any canes below the bud union
back as far as possible. If there's anything left of the
rose on top (canes growing out of or above the bud
union), it might recover.

Here are a few links with some information:
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/r...905017003.html
http://koning.ecsu.ctstateu.edu/Plan.../grafting.html

You'll see references in rose catalogs or nurseries to
"own root" roses. These are roses literally grown on
their own roots. So no problem of reversion. But
it doesn't work for all roses (those not hardy enough
to thrive on their own roots).

Gail
near San Antonio TX Zone 8

Hi Gail,
Thank you so much for this information. Now I wonder if we trimmed the
roses incorrectly when we cut them back. We had instructions, but who
knows if we understood them. Now I am curious if we can save them or
not. Wish us luck. Thanks again!


Gail Futoran wrote:
"lvflowers" wrote in message
oups.com...
Our area had a great deal more rain this spring than is normal. Then
later in the summer, we had some of the hottest days ever. Now it
appears that some of my roses reverted to wild roses or something. They
have stems that are 7-9 feet tall and no roses. Is it possible for
roses to change types? If they do, do they ever go back?

Most modern roses are grafted. The part above the
bud union (the scion) is the rose you want; the part
below (understock) is there to provide hardiness
and/or to protect from certain critters in the soil.

If the bottom rose is allowed to take over, you have
permanently lost the top rose. It's called "reversion".
The trick is to cut any canes below the bud union
back as far as possible. If there's anything left of the
rose on top (canes growing out of or above the bud
union), it might recover.

Here are a few links with some information:
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/r...905017003.html
http://koning.ecsu.ctstateu.edu/Plan.../grafting.html

You'll see references in rose catalogs or nurseries to
"own root" roses. These are roses literally grown on
their own roots. So no problem of reversion. But
it doesn't work for all roses (those not hardy enough
to thrive on their own roots).

Gail
near San Antonio TX Zone 8

"lvflowers" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Gail,
Thank you so much for this information. Now I wonder if we trimmed the
roses incorrectly when we cut them back. We had instructions, but who
knows if we understood them. Now I am curious if we can save them or
not. Wish us luck. Thanks again!


I found the whole pruning process difficult
at first, despite having several books that
showed the process rather clearly. It just
takes some experience.

My husband cut back some young climbers
thinking they were bush roses. They never
did recover as climbers, although they've
done fine as bush roses. :)

Unless you cut the canes all the way down to
the bud union, you probably didn't hurt
the rose. Roses are pretty tough. They will
revert for all kinds of reasons, including
how vigorous is the scion (top part of the
plant), the planting depth, and so on.

Anyhoo, good luck. I hope your roses
come back.

Gail
near San Antonio TX Zone 8

This is for UTBill...

You're an idiot.

A moron of the highest order. You're so stupid it's a wonder you can
remember to breath. Intelligent ideas bounce off your head as if it
were coated with teflon. Creative thoughts take alternate
transportation in order to avoid even being in the same state as you.
If you had an original thought it would die of loneliness before the
hour was out.

On an intelligence scale of 1 to 10 (10 corresponding to the highest
attainable IQ) you're rating is so far into negative numbers that one
would need to travel into another quantum reality in order to even
catch a distant glimpse of it. Your personality is that of a rabid
Chihuahua intent on destroying its own tail. Your powers of observation
are like that of the bird who keeps slamming into the picture window
trying to get that other bird it keeps seeing. You are walking, talking
proof that you don't have to be sentient to survive, and that Barnum
was thinking of you when he uttered his immortal phrase regarding the
birth of a sucker. You are, at varying times, tedious, boring, earth
shatteringly hilarious in your idiocy, childish, moronic, pathetic,
wretched, disgusting and pitiful.

You are wholly without any redeeming social grace or value. If God ever
decides to give the planet an enema you'd better run like the wind
because anywhere you stand is a suitable place for The Insertion. There
is no animal so disgusting, so vile that it deserves comparison to you,
for even the lowest, dirtiest, most parasitic member of the animal
kingdom fills an ecological niche. You fill no niche. To call you a
parasite would be injurious to the thousands of honest parasitic
species.

You are worse than vermin, for vermin do not pretend to be what it is
not. You are truly human garbage. You are a fraudulent, lying,
predatory charlatan. You are of less worth than a burnt-out light bulb.
You will forever live in shame. You have nothing to say, and Godwin's
Law does not apply when writing about you.

You are the anti-Midas, for all that you touch becomes valueless and
unusable. Mothers gather their children close when you appear. You are
an aberration, a corruption, a boil that needs to be lanced. You are a
poison in need of being vomited. You are a tooth so rotten it infects
the whole body. You are sperm that should have been captured in a
condom and flushed down a toilet. I don't like you. I don't like
anybody who has as little respect for others as you do. Go away, you
swine.

You're a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little
worm deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a
cad, a weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench,
a revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon. You are a curdled staggering
mutant dwarf smeared richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying
your alleged birth into this world. Meaningful to no one, abandoned by
the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and then killed
themselves in recognition of what they had done.

I will never get over the embarrassment of belonging to the same
species as you. You are a monster, an ogre, a malformity. I barf at the
very thought of you. You have all the appeal of a paper cut. Lepers
avoid you. You are vile, worthless, less than nothing. You are a weed,
a fungus, the dregs of this earth. And did I mention you smell? Monkeys
look down on you. Even sheep won't have sex with you. You are
unreservedly pathetic, starved for attention, and lost in a land that
reality forgot. You are a waste of flesh. You have no rhythm. You are
ridiculous and obnoxious. You are the moral equivalent of a leech. You
are a living emptiness, a meaningless void. You are sour and senile.
You are a disease. You puerile one-handed slack-jawed drooling
meatslapper.

On a good day you're a halfwit. You are deficient in all that lends
character. You have the personality of wallpaper. You are dank and
filthy. You are asinine and benighted. You are the source of all
unpleasantness. You spread misery and sorrow wherever you go.

You are a fiend and a coward, and you have bad breath. You are
degenerate, noxious and depraved. I feel debased just for knowing you
exist. I despise everything about you, and I wish you would go away. I
cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are.

The only thing worse than your logic is your manners. Maybe later in
life, after you have learned to read, write, study, spell, and count,
you will have more success. True, these are rudimentary skills that
many of us "normal" people take for granted that everyone has an easy
time of mastering. It just wouldn't have been "right". Sort of like
parking in a handicap space. I wish you the best of luck in the
emotional, and social struggles that seem to be placing such a demand
on you.

P.S.:
You are hypocritical, greedy, violent, malevolent, vengeful, cowardly,
deadly, mendacious, meretricious, loathsome, despicable, belligerent,
opportunistic, barratrous, contemptible, criminal, fascistic, bigoted,
racist, sexist, avaricious, tasteless, idiotic, brain-damaged,
imbecilic, insane, arrogant, deceitful, demented, lame, self-righteous,
byzantine, conspiratorial, satanic, fraudulent, libelous, bilious,
splenetic, spastic, ignorant, clueless, illegitimate, harmful,
destructive, dumb, evasive, double-talking, devious, revisionist,
narrow, manipulative, paternalistic, fundamentalist, dogmatic,
idolatrous, unethical, cultic, diseased, suppressive, controlling,
restrictive, malignant, deceptive, dim, crazy, weird, dystopic,
stifling, uncaring, plantigrade, grim, unsympathetic, jargon-spouting,
censorious, secretive, aggressive, mind-numbing, arassive, poisonous,
flagrant, self-destructive, abusive, and socially-retarded

Have a Great Day!

OBSESSION WIT BILL NOTED.
"Am I Being Scammed?" wrote in message
oups.com...

This is for UTBill...

You're an idiot.

A moron of the highest order. You're so stupid it's a wonder you can
remember to breath. Intelligent ideas bounce off your head as if it
were coated with teflon. Creative thoughts take alternate
transportation in order to avoid even being in the same state as you.
If you had an original thought it would die of loneliness before the
hour was out.

On an intelligence scale of 1 to 10 (10 corresponding to the highest
attainable IQ) you're rating is so far into negative numbers that one
would need to travel into another quantum reality in order to even
catch a distant glimpse of it. Your personality is that of a rabid
Chihuahua intent on destroying its own tail. Your powers of observation
are like that of the bird who keeps slamming into the picture window
trying to get that other bird it keeps seeing. You are walking, talking
proof that you don't have to be sentient to survive, and that Barnum
was thinking of you when he uttered his immortal phrase regarding the
birth of a sucker. You are, at varying times, tedious, boring, earth
shatteringly hilarious in your idiocy, childish, moronic, pathetic,
wretched, disgusting and pitiful.

You are wholly without any redeeming social grace or value. If God ever
decides to give the planet an enema you'd better run like the wind
because anywhere you stand is a suitable place for The Insertion. There
is no animal so disgusting, so vile that it deserves comparison to you,
for even the lowest, dirtiest, most parasitic member of the animal
kingdom fills an ecological niche. You fill no niche. To call you a
parasite would be injurious to the thousands of honest parasitic
species.

You are worse than vermin, for vermin do not pretend to be what it is
not. You are truly human garbage. You are a fraudulent, lying,
predatory charlatan. You are of less worth than a burnt-out light bulb.
You will forever live in shame. You have nothing to say, and Godwin's
Law does not apply when writing about you.

You are the anti-Midas, for all that you touch becomes valueless and
unusable. Mothers gather their children close when you appear. You are
an aberration, a corruption, a boil that needs to be lanced. You are a
poison in need of being vomited. You are a tooth so rotten it infects
the whole body. You are sperm that should have been captured in a
condom and flushed down a toilet. I don't like you. I don't like
anybody who has as little respect for others as you do. Go away, you
swine.

You're a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little
worm deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a
cad, a weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench,
a revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon. You are a curdled staggering
mutant dwarf smeared richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying
your alleged birth into this world. Meaningful to no one, abandoned by
the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and then killed
themselves in recognition of what they had done.

I will never get over the embarrassment of belonging to the same
species as you. You are a monster, an ogre, a malformity. I barf at the
very thought of you. You have all the appeal of a paper cut. Lepers
avoid you. You are vile, worthless, less than nothing. You are a weed,
a fungus, the dregs of this earth. And did I mention you smell? Monkeys
look down on you. Even sheep won't have sex with you. You are
unreservedly pathetic, starved for attention, and lost in a land that
reality forgot. You are a waste of flesh. You have no rhythm. You are
ridiculous and obnoxious. You are the moral equivalent of a leech. You
are a living emptiness, a meaningless void. You are sour and senile.
You are a disease. You puerile one-handed slack-jawed drooling
meatslapper.

On a good day you're a halfwit. You are deficient in all that lends
character. You have the personality of wallpaper. You are dank and
filthy. You are asinine and benighted. You are the source of all
unpleasantness. You spread misery and sorrow wherever you go.

You are a fiend and a coward, and you have bad breath. You are
degenerate, noxious and depraved. I feel debased just for knowing you
exist. I despise everything about you, and I wish you would go away. I
cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are.

The only thing worse than your logic is your manners. Maybe later in
life, after you have learned to read, write, study, spell, and count,
you will have more success. True, these are rudimentary skills that
many of us "normal" people take for granted that everyone has an easy
time of mastering. It just wouldn't have been "right". Sort of like
parking in a handicap space. I wish you the best of luck in the
emotional, and social struggles that seem to be placing such a demand
on you.

P.S.:
You are hypocritical, greedy, violent, malevolent, vengeful, cowardly,
deadly, mendacious, meretricious, loathsome, despicable, belligerent,
opportunistic, barratrous, contemptible, criminal, fascistic, bigoted,
racist, sexist, avaricious, tasteless, idiotic, brain-damaged,
imbecilic, insane, arrogant, deceitful, demented, lame, self-righteous,
byzantine, conspiratorial, satanic, fraudulent, libelous, bilious,
splenetic, spastic, ignorant, clueless, illegitimate, harmful,
destructive, dumb, evasive, double-talking, devious, revisionist,
narrow, manipulative, paternalistic, fundamentalist, dogmatic,
idolatrous, unethical, cultic, diseased, suppressive, controlling,
restrictive, malignant, deceptive, dim, crazy, weird, dystopic,
stifling, uncaring, plantigrade, grim, unsympathetic, jargon-spouting,
censorious, secretive, aggressive, mind-numbing, arassive, poisonous,
flagrant, self-destructive, abusive, and socially-retarded

Have a Great Day!

"Am I Being Scammed?" wrote in message
oups.com...

This is for UTBill...

Bill kicked your ass huh?

You're an idiot.

A moron of the highest order. You're so stupid it's a wonder you can
remember to breath. Intelligent ideas bounce off your head as if it
were coated with teflon. Creative thoughts take alternate
transportation in order to avoid even being in the same state as you.
If you had an original thought it would die of loneliness before the
hour was out.

On an intelligence scale of 1 to 10 (10 corresponding to the highest
attainable IQ) you're rating is so far into negative numbers that one
would need to travel into another quantum reality in order to even
catch a distant glimpse of it. Your personality is that of a rabid
Chihuahua intent on destroying its own tail. Your powers of observation
are like that of the bird who keeps slamming into the picture window
trying to get that other bird it keeps seeing. You are walking, talking
proof that you don't have to be sentient to survive, and that Barnum
was thinking of you when he uttered his immortal phrase regarding the
birth of a sucker. You are, at varying times, tedious, boring, earth
shatteringly hilarious in your idiocy, childish, moronic, pathetic,
wretched, disgusting and pitiful.

You are wholly without any redeeming social grace or value. If God ever
decides to give the planet an enema you'd better run like the wind
because anywhere you stand is a suitable place for The Insertion. There
is no animal so disgusting, so vile that it deserves comparison to you,
for even the lowest, dirtiest, most parasitic member of the animal
kingdom fills an ecological niche. You fill no niche. To call you a
parasite would be injurious to the thousands of honest parasitic
species.

You are worse than vermin, for vermin do not pretend to be what it is
not. You are truly human garbage. You are a fraudulent, lying,
predatory charlatan. You are of less worth than a burnt-out light bulb.
You will forever live in shame. You have nothing to say, and Godwin's
Law does not apply when writing about you.

You are the anti-Midas, for all that you touch becomes valueless and
unusable. Mothers gather their children close when you appear. You are
an aberration, a corruption, a boil that needs to be lanced. You are a
poison in need of being vomited. You are a tooth so rotten it infects
the whole body. You are sperm that should have been captured in a
condom and flushed down a toilet. I don't like you. I don't like
anybody who has as little respect for others as you do. Go away, you
swine.

You're a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little
worm deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a
cad, a weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench,
a revulsion, a big suck on a sour lemon. You are a curdled staggering
mutant dwarf smeared richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying
your alleged birth into this world. Meaningful to no one, abandoned by
the puke-drooling, giggling beasts who sired you and then killed
themselves in recognition of what they had done.

I will never get over the embarrassment of belonging to the same
species as you. You are a monster, an ogre, a malformity. I barf at the
very thought of you. You have all the appeal of a paper cut. Lepers
avoid you. You are vile, worthless, less than nothing. You are a weed,
a fungus, the dregs of this earth. And did I mention you smell? Monkeys
look down on you. Even sheep won't have sex with you. You are
unreservedly pathetic, starved for attention, and lost in a land that
reality forgot. You are a waste of flesh. You have no rhythm. You are
ridiculous and obnoxious. You are the moral equivalent of a leech. You
are a living emptiness, a meaningless void. You are sour and senile.
You are a disease. You puerile one-handed slack-jawed drooling
meatslapper.

On a good day you're a halfwit. You are deficient in all that lends
character. You have the personality of wallpaper. You are dank and
filthy. You are asinine and benighted. You are the source of all
unpleasantness. You spread misery and sorrow wherever you go.

You are a fiend and a coward, and you have bad breath. You are
degenerate, noxious and depraved. I feel debased just for knowing you
exist. I despise everything about you, and I wish you would go away. I
cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are.

The only thing worse than your logic is your manners. Maybe later in
life, after you have learned to read, write, study, spell, and count,
you will have more success. True, these are rudimentary skills that
many of us "normal" people take for granted that everyone has an easy
time of mastering. It just wouldn't have been "right". Sort of like
parking in a handicap space. I wish you the best of luck in the
emotional, and social struggles that seem to be placing such a demand
on you.

P.S.:
You are hypocritical, greedy, violent, malevolent, vengeful, cowardly,
deadly, mendacious, meretricious, loathsome, despicable, belligerent,
opportunistic, barratrous, contemptible, criminal, fascistic, bigoted,
racist, sexist, avaricious, tasteless, idiotic, brain-damaged,
imbecilic, insane, arrogant, deceitful, demented, lame, self-righteous,
byzantine, conspiratorial, satanic, fraudulent, libelous, bilious,
splenetic, spastic, ignorant, clueless, illegitimate, harmful,
destructive, dumb, evasive, double-talking, devious, revisionist,
narrow, manipulative, paternalistic, fundamentalist, dogmatic,
idolatrous, unethical, cultic, diseased, suppressive, controlling,
restrictive, malignant, deceptive, dim, crazy, weird, dystopic,
stifling, uncaring, plantigrade, grim, unsympathetic, jargon-spouting,
censorious, secretive, aggressive, mind-numbing, arassive, poisonous,
flagrant, self-destructive, abusive, and socially-retarded

Have a Great Day!

Just trying to unlink this "thread" from the other
newsgroup. Rose people, if you respond, please
delete the other newsgroup(s).

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:30:04 -0600, UTBill wrote:

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:26:46 GMT, wrote:

Just trying to unlink this "thread" from the other
newsgroup. Rose people, if you respond, please
delete the other newsgroup(s).

-

GIT-R-DONE!

On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 11:32:53 -0600, UTBill wrote:

nothing much of note

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:00:04 -0600, UTBill wrote:

blather

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:37:40 -0600, UTBill wrote:

Once again I got the monkey to dance for me.

Actually it's YOU who's dancing like a marionette in your trolling
attempts. I write something, you dribble like a leaky faucet.

Life must be pretty boring for you at the moment. Or perhaps, you're
home from school with the flu and you found your daddy's password.

And now, back to the purge.

There is not much point wasting time on boards with such inadequate
moderation, here's some more reliable special interest places, feel
free to add others to the list.

http://www.awgs.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php

koivet.com

koiphen.com

Regards, andy
http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html

Hi,
here you can find more roses and information about them, it's an italian
site
www.vivaiolacampanella.com

Bye
GianOne