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Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
Hi,
I just waded through 5000+ posts before posting this, so be kind:) I learned about streams of water, poisons, and ladybugs to control aphids. I want to know if there is a companion plant that would repell aphids OR is a mix of 14 cup dish soap to 1 quart of water would kill the aphids. It will kill a freakin' bee dead. More important, will i harm my roses trying this...? I also learned about poisons and picking off affected leaves, watering from the bottom, and removing debri for blackspot. My black spot is on the stems/canes/stalks themselvesas well as the leaves. But my roses i would put up against any gorgeous yummy smelling rose. I could never destroy a plant that gives me such beauty! So i live with it, even though it is rather icky looking sometimes. There isn't any companion planting for this is there? (doubt it) I tried a few kinds of poisons but i really hate poison and don't use it as a rule. I have pets and toads in the yard. Will a mulch help black spot? I have some cypress mulch and summer here in zone 7, north Texas gets mighty hot. I have not mulched in the past and maybe it's one of those if it aint broke, dont fix it type things, but i wondered if there was a bagged mulch that would further beautify the roses, or repell some of the bad guys. I cut my 4 ft bushes down to 1 ft this year. They have SO many buds right now! On three bushes i got about 100 roses a week last year from May-frost. So once they start, i can count on them being there for the next 7 months. I do not know what kind they are, but are three different colors and scents. Thanks, juls |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, jammer wrote:
Hi, I just waded through 5000+ posts before posting this, so be kind:) I learned about streams of water, poisons, and ladybugs to control aphids. I want to know if there is a companion plant that would repell aphids OR is a mix of 14 cup dish soap to 1 quart of water would kill the aphids. It will kill a freakin' bee dead. More important, will i harm my roses trying this...? I also learned about poisons and picking off affected leaves, watering from the bottom, and removing debri for blackspot. My black spot is on the stems/canes/stalks themselvesas well as the leaves. But my roses i would put up against any gorgeous yummy smelling rose. I could never destroy a plant that gives me such beauty! So i live with it, even though it is rather icky looking sometimes. There isn't any companion planting for this is there? (doubt it) I tried a few kinds of poisons but i really hate poison and don't use it as a rule. I have pets and toads in the yard. Will a mulch help black spot? I have some cypress mulch and summer here in zone 7, north Texas gets mighty hot. I have not mulched in the past and maybe it's one of those if it aint broke, dont fix it type things, but i wondered if there was a bagged mulch that would further beautify the roses, or repell some of the bad guys. I cut my 4 ft bushes down to 1 ft this year. They have SO many buds right now! On three bushes i got about 100 roses a week last year from May-frost. So once they start, i can count on them being there for the next 7 months. I do not know what kind they are, but are three different colors and scents. Thanks, juls Hi Juls, Planting garlic, onions or chives (alliums) with your roses will repel aphids and spider mites. Some people claim it will also control blackspot and powdery mildew, but I can't vouch for that. I don't know of any mulch that will repel pests. I'd recommend mulching anyway, particularly here in Texas. It will help keep your roses happy during our hot summers and you'll also be improving the soil. Spraying aphids with a mild soap and water solution is Gramma's old control for aphids, and she seemed to be happy with the results. Your mixture sounds a little strong, though. Have you heard of the Cornell formula? It's the same idea - it smothers the little boogers. It also has the added benefit of controlling fungal diseases. You can find the recipe easily on the Web by doing a search for "Cornell formula" and it's cheap and easy to make and use. It's basically horticultural oil, soap, baking soda and water. The only thing you'd probably have to go out and buy is the Ultra-Fine horticultural oil. Any nursery or garden center should have it. Good luck, Mike z8TX |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
jammer wrote:
I learned about streams of water, poisons, and ladybugs to control aphids. I want to know if there is a companion plant that would repell aphids OR is a mix of 14 cup dish soap to 1 quart of water would kill the aphids. It will kill a freakin' bee dead. More important, will i harm my roses trying this...? Fourteen cups dishwashing detergent to one quart water? Let's see, 4 cups to a quart, so that is three-and-a-half quarts detergent plus one quart water? Why bother diluting water with the detergent g? Juls, seriously, that formula sounds dangerous to throw on roses. Here is a recipe that contains dish soap that you might find useful, and it does not strike me as particularly dangerous to roses unless the weather gets too hot (oil can cause phototoxicity to leaves if the temperatures rise above 80 to 85 degrees Fahrenheit): 1 tsp. dish soap 1 liter of water 1 tsp. vegetable oil This URL has some other information besides that (they use something they call seaspray kelp here with which I am not familiar, so I omitted it in what I excerpted in the above recipe): http://www.urbangreenery.com/project010102.php -- Radika California USDA 9 / Sunset 15 |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 01:07:08 -0500, jammer wrote:
Hi, Oh GOOD GRIEF. That is 1/4 cup of dish soap! |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
Thank you both very much.
On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 08:33:48 -0700, Radika Kesavan wrote: jammer wrote: I learned about streams of water, poisons, and ladybugs to control aphids. I want to know if there is a companion plant that would repell aphids OR is a mix of 14 cup dish soap to 1 quart of water would kill the aphids. It will kill a freakin' bee dead. More important, will i harm my roses trying this...? Fourteen cups dishwashing detergent to one quart water? Let's see, 4 cups to a quart, so that is three-and-a-half quarts detergent plus one quart water? Why bother diluting water with the detergent g? Juls, seriously, that formula sounds dangerous to throw on roses. Here is a recipe that contains dish soap that you might find useful, and it does not strike me as particularly dangerous to roses unless the weather gets too hot (oil can cause phototoxicity to leaves if the temperatures rise above 80 to 85 degrees Fahrenheit): 1 tsp. dish soap 1 liter of water 1 tsp. vegetable oil This URL has some other information besides that (they use something they call seaspray kelp here with which I am not familiar, so I omitted it in what I excerpted in the above recipe): http://www.urbangreenery.com/project010102.php |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
In Mike wrote:
Planting garlic, onions or chives (alliums) with your roses will repel aphids and spider mites. Some people claim it will also control blackspot and powdery mildew, but I can't vouch for that. I wouldn't vouch for the garlic, onions and chives either! Chives in particular can attract black aphids. |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
On 17 Apr 2003 22:38:01 GMT, Daniel Hanna
wrote: Planting garlic, onions or chives (alliums) with your roses will repel aphids and spider mites. Some people claim it will also control blackspot and powdery mildew, but I can't vouch for that. I wouldn't vouch for the garlic, onions and chives either! Chives in particular can attract black aphids. There seems to be great contraversy about this! I find one site that says yes and the next says no. It's 50/50 so i haven't a freakin' clue as to if it would be worth the time and expense. I really think i will try soap solutions before anything else, as far as aphids. I sprayed them off last night and the tips are covered again today. They are working on the new buds, darn it. |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
On 17 Apr 2003, Daniel Hanna wrote:
In Mike wrote: Planting garlic, onions or chives (alliums) with your roses will repel aphids and spider mites. Some people claim it will also control blackspot and powdery mildew, but I can't vouch for that. I wouldn't vouch for the garlic, onions and chives either! Chives in particular can attract black aphids. Hi Daniel, Your comment intrigued me, because my father plants a garlic bulb on either side of every rose and he has no aphids or spider mites. I knew I had read somewhere about studies being done on the effectiveness of alliums as companion plantings, so I dug through my books and found this: On page 61 of "Fool Proof Guide to Growing Roses," Field Roebuck states: "Claims for the benefits of growing alliums with roses have been at least partially tested and found to have some merit. For reasons largely unexplained, the edible alliums - garlic, chives, garlic chives and onions - have demonstrated varying degress of effectiveness against aphids and spider mites. And, in at least one controlled experiment, when planted underneath roses, garlic chives completely eliminated spider mites and significantly reduced the aphid population." He didn't mention what study/where, so I did a search on the web for study/aphids/alliums/roses and found mention of two studies done by Universities here in the US. University of Rhode Island: http://www.uri.edu/ce/factsheets/sheets/compplant.html Cornell University: http://www.cce.cornell.edu/suffolk/g...c/complant.htm Unlike Mr. Roebuck, who stated it is unknown how alliums repel pests, both these universities state that these companion plantings work by disguising the smell of the roses. Both say pests locate your roses by smell and the strong smells of these alliums prevent them from finding your treasures. However, I don't know how that would rid an already infected rose of spider mites, as Mr. Roebuck claims in his book. Your claim of aphids being attracted to chives would also seem to suggest that it would only further tempt the little stem-suckers and make the problem worse. This requires more research than I'm willing to do at 11:00pm. I know Dad - who lives one street behind me - doesn't have to spray for aphids or spider mites. I just think those sloppy stalks on either side of all his rose bushes are quite unattractive (ugly!) Ultra-Fine works great for me. Jammer/Juls (btw: if you're reading this - which do you prefer?) asked if there were companion plants that repelled pests and I was offering him Dad's little trick. I love the way this group forces me to do research! Mike z8TX |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
Hi Mike,
I am still lurking... I appreciated this post. You ask what i prefer? Well I have used niether. I was the original poster. They are ugly, huh? I don't even know if they will grow in hell. I mean north Texas..But i did read everything else about garlic and I would plant it in the fall. Or maybe that is only for harvesting the garlic. ? (I do like garlic but would forego that to have less aphids!) So i have months to consider it. I would try your Ultra Fine, but i don't like poisons for a variety of reasons. So......I am going to see if water, soap, and oil work first. I will let you all know. On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 05:01:32 GMT, Mike wrote: Hi Daniel, Your comment intrigued me, because my father plants a garlic bulb on either side of every rose and he has no aphids or spider mites. I knew I had read somewhere about studies being done on the effectiveness of alliums as companion plantings, so I dug through my books and found this: On page 61 of "Fool Proof Guide to Growing Roses," Field Roebuck states: "Claims for the benefits of growing alliums with roses have been at least partially tested and found to have some merit. For reasons largely unexplained, the edible alliums - garlic, chives, garlic chives and onions - have demonstrated varying degress of effectiveness against aphids and spider mites. And, in at least one controlled experiment, when planted underneath roses, garlic chives completely eliminated spider mites and significantly reduced the aphid population." He didn't mention what study/where, so I did a search on the web for study/aphids/alliums/roses and found mention of two studies done by Universities here in the US. University of Rhode Island: http://www.uri.edu/ce/factsheets/sheets/compplant.html Cornell University: http://www.cce.cornell.edu/suffolk/g...c/complant.htm Unlike Mr. Roebuck, who stated it is unknown how alliums repel pests, both these universities state that these companion plantings work by disguising the smell of the roses. Both say pests locate your roses by smell and the strong smells of these alliums prevent them from finding your treasures. However, I don't know how that would rid an already infected rose of spider mites, as Mr. Roebuck claims in his book. Your claim of aphids being attracted to chives would also seem to suggest that it would only further tempt the little stem-suckers and make the problem worse. This requires more research than I'm willing to do at 11:00pm. I know Dad - who lives one street behind me - doesn't have to spray for aphids or spider mites. I just think those sloppy stalks on either side of all his rose bushes are quite unattractive (ugly!) Ultra-Fine works great for me. Jammer/Juls (btw: if you're reading this - which do you prefer?) asked if there were companion plants that repelled pests and I was offering him Dad's little trick. I love the way this group forces me to do research! Mike z8TX |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, jammer wrote:
Hi Mike, I am still lurking... I appreciated this post. You ask what i prefer? Well I have used niether. I was the original poster. They are ugly, huh? I don't even know if they will grow in hell. I mean north Texas..But i did read everything else about garlic and I would plant it in the fall. Or maybe that is only for harvesting the garlic. ? (I do like garlic but would forego that to have less aphids!) So i have months to consider it. I would try your Ultra Fine, but i don't like poisons for a variety of reasons. So......I am going to see if water, soap, and oil work first. I will let you all know. Hi Jammer, I meant what do you prefer between Jammer or Juls, because your first post was Juls - but I see it's been Jammer ever since, so I'll go with that. Now watch, - that'll be wrong. g I'm in South Central Texas, so I'm sure the garlic will grow up north. I think it's ugly next to roses. It's just big green stalks, like fat, tall grass. The stalks tend to flop over in wind or rain, too. Sloppy. My Dad plants them right next to roses, inches away, on two sides. It looks pretty bad sticking up through his rose bushes. I can't tell him nuthin', though. He swears by it. Mike z8TX |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
Hey Jammer Black spot control(not elimination)
is an year round activity. Now that I've scared you let me add that it's work but for those gorgeous flowers its not much. The big one is spraying with lime-sulphur twice in winter. Strip leaves and generally clean up before and after spray. Then prevention is the watch word. Use the Cornell formula and spray after every rain when the temp is below 90F. This way I never see BS till August and even then it is small localized patches. Oh! did I forget. Please MULCH. -- Theo in Zone 5 Kansas City "jammer" wrote in message ... On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 01:07:08 -0500, jammer wrote: Hi, Oh GOOD GRIEF. That is 1/4 cup of dish soap! |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
Mike wrote:
On 17 Apr 2003, Daniel Hanna wrote: In Mike wrote: Planting garlic, onions or chives (alliums) with your roses will repel aphids and spider mites. Some people claim it will also control blackspot and powdery mildew, but I can't vouch for that. I wouldn't vouch for the garlic, onions and chives either! Chives in particular can attract black aphids. Your comment intrigued me, because my father plants a garlic bulb on either side of every rose and he has no aphids or spider mites. I knew I had read somewhere about studies being done on the effectiveness of alliums as companion plantings, so I dug through my books and found this: Moving away from companion plants for a moment... In the past I've used Green Lacewing (Chrysoperla carnea) larva to control aphids. You can buy them from various places (I bought them at http://www.gardensalive.com/ which is not a cheep place to shop but they may not be any cheeper elsewhere). You buy lacewings as eggs (which are almost a powder, they are so small) that you spread around your garden, particularly under rose bushes. Gardens Alive sells 1,000 eggs for $12 or 3,000 which they deliver in batches of 1,000 over a four week period for $33. Some of my roses get absolutely covered with aphids and after a single order by 1,000 lacewing eggs they were totally gone within a week. Of course, two weeks later they were covered again. The last few years I've just spent an afternoon removing them by hand (I get an odd sort of joy out of squishing them). But I can recommend lacewings for aphid control if you are willing to spend the money. -- Henry |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 05:01:32 GMT, Mike wrote:
Your comment intrigued me, because my father plants a garlic bulb on either side of every rose and he has no aphids or spider mites. This is interesting, Mike, and I think goof evidence that allium might indeed repel them. What else does your father do, do you know? Hard sprays of water, etc? That is the only other question I would ask. I knew I had read somewhere about studies being done on the effectiveness of alliums as companion plantings, so I dug through my books and found this: On page 61 of "Fool Proof Guide to Growing Roses," Field Roebuck states: ..... He didn't mention what study/where He never does. Field Roebuck appears to think one should accept anything he says just because he says it. When challenged, one is presented with the "fact" that this man has written a BOOK. He has been wrong on so many counts, and has claimed so many patently false things, I tend to discount everything he has to say. , so I did a search on the web for study/aphids/alliums/roses and found mention of two studies done by Universities here in the US. University of Rhode Island: http://www.uri.edu/ce/factsheets/sheets/compplant.html Cornell University: http://www.cce.cornell.edu/suffolk/g...c/complant.htm Unlike Mr. Roebuck, who stated it is unknown how alliums repel pests, both these universities state that these companion plantings work by disguising the smell of the roses. This is neat! But isn't the wild garlic that grows all over my property an allium too? It springs up beside my roses everywhere, and when I pull it the bulbs rarely come up. Both say pests locate your roses by smell and the strong smells of these alliums prevent them from finding your treasures. However, I don't know how that would rid an already infected rose of spider mites, as Mr. Roebuck claims in his book. Your claim of aphids being attracted to chives would also seem to suggest that it would only further tempt the little stem-suckers and make the problem worse. [..] I love the way this group forces me to do research! We appreciate it, too, Mike. Thanks. Mike z8TX |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
jammer writes:
There seems to be great contraversy about this! I find one site that says yes and the next says no. It's 50/50 so i haven't a freakin' clue as to if it would be worth the time and expense. I really think i will try soap solutions before anything else, as far as aphids. I sprayed them off last night and the tips are covered again today. They are working on the new buds, darn it. A lot of things about roses are controversial. There are very few things you will get even a small number of rosarians to agree upon. If time and expense are your biggest concern, use the petroinorganic (whatever that word it) chemicals. They will control the aphids. I think most will agree with this statement. The controversy is which one is best and whether they are harmful to the envionment. If you want a more organic control you'll have to experiement yourself and see whether any or all of them work for you or not. I've never seen more than two or three people at one time agree on any one of these methods. Third option - live with the aphids. |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
Hey Jammer Black spot control(not elimination)
is an year round activity. Now that I've scared you let me add that it's work but for those gorgeous flowers its not much. The big one is spraying with lime-sulphur twice in winter. Strip leaves and generally clean up before and after spray. Then prevention is the watch word. Use the Cornell formula and spray after every rain when the temp is below 90F. This way I never see BS till August and even then it is small localized patches. Oh! did I forget. Please MULCH. -- Theo in Zone 5 Kansas City "jammer" wrote in message ... On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 01:07:08 -0500, jammer wrote: Hi, Oh GOOD GRIEF. That is 1/4 cup of dish soap! |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
In article , Mike
wrote: I'm in South Central Texas, so I'm sure the garlic will grow up north. I think it's ugly next to roses. It's just big green stalks, like fat, tall grass. The stalks tend to flop over in wind or rain, too. Sloppy. My Dad plants them right next to roses, inches away, on two sides. It looks pretty bad sticking up through his rose bushes. I can't tell him nuthin', though. He swears by it. There is an ornamental garlic that grows all curly. I think it's really cool. That said, my impression is that all that companion plant stuff is bunk. Aphids like nice cuddly conditions. The roses on my patio protected by a wall get aphids. Those out in the gale suffer much less. Another point: washing off aphids is an exercise in washing the little beasts off far enough so they can't climb back up to the tender new growth. So don't wash them off one rose and onto another (which I've done), and make sure you wash them far enough away. |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
In Mike wrote:
Both say pests locate your roses by smell and the strong smells of these alliums prevent them from finding your treasures. That seems a valid theory to me. Then again, I underplant lavender between my roses. It's supposed to have the same masking effect, but my bushes still get infested. This year the pests been far fewer than in previous years, but I attribute that to a better spraying program this season. I say this because my 'picking' bed at the back of my house is not underplanted with anything - it suffers no more or less from pests than my display bed which have lavender. |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243
Path: news7.nntpserver.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.c om!not-for-mail Xref: news7 rec.gardens.roses:91630 On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 20:08:17 GMT, Mike wrote: He doesn't deliberately blast with the hose to wash off aphids. But I know he doesn't believe that you have to avoid getting the foliage wet. He thinks I'm ridiculous for going to "all that trouble" when I water. He says things like "what do you think happens when it rains?" and "do you think water is bad for roses?" When he waters his roses, the whole plant gets wet. He waters most of his roses with sprinklers that are installed around his beds, which shouldn't bother the aphids, but he does use the hose to get to plants that are not within the sprinklers range. I am SO with your Dad on this! Mack once said that deliberately avoiding the foliage of a rose was like taking a shower but only getting your feet wet. It is unnatural to NOT wash down the roses, I don't care what "conventional wisdom" says, or what "everybody knows." One caveat--I of course observe an anti-fungal spray program, so that takes care of the black spot. The water washes away so many baddies! Urp. I have heard of your Dad's smelly, eggy, anti-deer concoction! Good to know it works! He never does. Field Roebuck appears to think one should accept anything he says just because he says it. When challenged, one is presented with the "fact" that this man has written a BOOK. He has been wrong on so many counts, and has claimed so many patently false things, I tend to discount everything he has to say. That's funny because if you've ever been to his website, he devotes a large portion of it to discrediting "The Dirt Doctor." He basically says the same things about that guy that you just said about him. g I love irony. G Any idiot who got past the eighth grade knows that you cite sources, whether you are a scientist or a fiction writer or whatever, when you are making claims. "This is what I do" is just fine. But "DO THIS because I said so is stupid, and Roebuck does it all the time. He is one of those who insist that use of Orthenex over time creates an infestation of spider mites--never mind that I have never seen them in my garden save on one plant that brought them from the nursery. His anti-chem agenda is more annoying than enlightening. Unlike your efforts, I must say. I don't know, I haven't come across wild garlic here - wild carrots, but no wild garlic. Wild carrots won't give up their root easily, either. I would guess if it's garlic, it's an allium. Is it stinky? Yep! It smells like the garlic I cook with! Long green grassy leaves that look like chives before you dice them. I suppose it is wild garlic? It is everywhere at the moment. I keep a messy garden, I'm afraid. More on that topic in a minute. T It's a good thing. It helps me make up my own mind about all this information where you can find just as many people on both sides of the fence. .did I just channel Martha Stewart? *shudder* *sprinkling Holy water all around and fashioning a garlic necklace just for you* G Mike z8TX |
Aphids, black spot, and mulch, etc.
Well i sprayed my rose bushes with dish soap and water. The aphids are
very few now. On my 3 bushes i have 68 roses. It is so pretty, i will try to get a pic. Too bad we don't have smell vision. The scent is intoxicating. I don't know if i will worry about the black spot for a while. Heck, they have had it for 3-4 yrs. The roses are gorgeous and the plants have grown 3 feet in a month. For the same reason, i haven't planned to mulch either. If i ever counted all the roses in one season from those it would be in the thousands. I gets hundreds a week. Rock on |
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