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Long grizzle - wrong roses!
Okay, here's a trusting fool for you.
1. I planted a Modern Climber - not my style, as you know, but there I was choosing virtues like reliability! in the front garden, right at the front, to occupy a key flowering position. It was supposed to be Golden Showers. When the buds broke, they were PINK! Bright pink, in fact (in a yellow and blue border). Back to the nursery it went, where they said it was Agatha Christie. I felt murderous :). I replaced it with Claire Jacquier, but she may not now flower this year; no buds, unsurprisingly. Grr. 2. At the back, again in the most prominent place right behind the BACK door, I planted what I was told was Mme Isaac Pereire - you see the thinking? Heady scent, back door, right? Buds broke yesterday and she isn't Mme Isaac at ALL. The flowers are orangey, fading to apricot, and TINY, HT shape. In a lilac and blue border! Up she comes! Nursery says it can send a replacement, but (again) may not flower this year. Double grrr. This isn't the first time this has happened. I have an impostor pretending to be Maiden's Blush out back - it's repeat-flowering and usually flowers by the middle of May. Amazingly these roses came from different nurseries both of which have always been fine before. Next time I buy a rose I shall look VERY carefully at it to make sure it's what it says it is. Would love to hear others' stories of The Wrong Roses. -- Jane Lumley |
Long grizzle - wrong roses!
On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:22:01 +0100, Jane Lumley
wrote: Okay, here's a trusting fool for you. 1. I planted a Modern Climber - not my style, as you know, but there I was choosing virtues like reliability! in the front garden, right at the front, to occupy a key flowering position. It was supposed to be Golden Showers. When the buds broke, they were PINK! Bright pink, in fact (in a yellow and blue border). Back to the nursery it went, where they said it was Agatha Christie. I felt murderous :). I replaced it with Claire Jacquier, but she may not now flower this year; no buds, unsurprisingly. Grr. 2. At the back, again in the most prominent place right behind the BACK door, I planted what I was told was Mme Isaac Pereire - you see the thinking? Heady scent, back door, right? Buds broke yesterday and she isn't Mme Isaac at ALL. The flowers are orangey, fading to apricot, and TINY, HT shape. In a lilac and blue border! Up she comes! Nursery says it can send a replacement, but (again) may not flower this year. Double grrr. This has got me thinking about the power of names. I'd buy an Issac Hayes rose in a heartbeat. Can you dig it? |
Long grizzle - wrong roses!
On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:53:29 -0500, dave weil
wrote: On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:22:01 +0100, Jane Lumley wrote: Okay, here's a trusting fool for you. 1. I planted a Modern Climber - not my style, as you know, but there I was choosing virtues like reliability! in the front garden, right at the front, to occupy a key flowering position. It was supposed to be Golden Showers. When the buds broke, they were PINK! Bright pink, in fact (in a yellow and blue border). Back to the nursery it went, where they said it was Agatha Christie. I felt murderous :). I replaced it with Claire Jacquier, but she may not now flower this year; no buds, unsurprisingly. Grr. 2. At the back, again in the most prominent place right behind the BACK door, I planted what I was told was Mme Isaac Pereire - you see the thinking? Heady scent, back door, right? Buds broke yesterday and she isn't Mme Isaac at ALL. The flowers are orangey, fading to apricot, and TINY, HT shape. In a lilac and blue border! Up she comes! Nursery says it can send a replacement, but (again) may not flower this year. Double grrr. This has got me thinking about the power of names. I'd buy an Issac Hayes rose in a heartbeat. Can you dig it? Or Isaac Hayes even. ....he's a bad muth...well shut my mouth! Give me some of dat Hot Buttered Soul! |
Long grizzle - wrong roses!
Would love to hear others' stories of The Wrong Roses
I purchased what was clearly labeled as a climber (Don Juan) and also planted at the back door. The plant appears for all intents and puposes to be a"regular" bush since the 4 canes each have a flowering bud at the tip. I thought climbers bloomed on laterals(I am not a rose officianado). Am I barking up the wrong "cane"? Vince |
Long grizzle - wrong roses!
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Long grizzle - wrong roses!
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Long grizzle - wrong roses!
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 14:22:54 -0500, dave weil
wrote: Thanks for the info. Can it be that I have not talked to you enough about DON JUAN? How can it be? This will be helpful as I start to train DJ on my trellis, although it doesn't sound promising for the DJs that I have planted under my dying cranberry tree. I should have probably planted something that throws off a *lot* of long canes to wind up the trunk. Maybe I'll drive some posts next to the tree and train them around them and back to the tree to get some lateral growth going... Dave, I have damned near NO experience with climbers except this Don Juan and the Sombreuil planted next to it, which seems to grow the same way. I don't know how others grow or even if there is a difference except in length, vigor, that sort of thing. I just pretty much just let these do what they do, benign neglect. I don't like the idea of training anything, although, the reason for the benign neglect is just lack of time. They are all in a tangle--the tangle is presently about 10 feet wide but I regularly hack off parts that break free and wave around. In any case, if you have this thing in full sun and give it tons of water it ought to be leaping out of the ground. Plenty of plant to do what you want with. |
Long grizzle - wrong roses!
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Long grizzle - wrong roses!
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 15:54:41 -0500, dave weil
wrote: Well, this was all helpful stuff. I wasn't worried too much about the little trellis, but the tree was something that I wanted to eventually hide. Maybe I can work the lateral thing to my advantage by wrapping the canes *around* the trunk of the tree rather than training the canes *up* the trunk. We'll see. Here's a thought: add some other climbers. Don Juan is small for a climber, judging from what many have said. Bob Bauer said its canes gets no more than 12 or 15 feel long. Most people worry about containig a giant climber--with your tree, you have no such worries. I like two different types of roses intertwined together. That is what I wanted to happen with Don and Sombreuil, but they have not bloomed at the same time, so that's a bust so far. Have you considered Zepherine Drohine [spelling!!]? Jane's up in Maryland is outstanding. Sombreuil has been an underperformer for me (mainly due to the lack of afternoon sun I think) but that works well for its location, which is fairly limited in size anyway. I like mine okay except for the fact that it ages so ugly. I love the blushy center. But I am not really attracted to roses with 9,000 itsy bitsy petals. It is a lot more shallow-cupped than I had thought it would be. |
Long grizzle - wrong roses!
Shiva,
Would bending the cane over, as described below, work with a Blaze climber also? (I realize that Blaze may be out of fashion, but when I first got my rose arbor, I knew my hubby would want the "rose arbor like my grandmother had" so Blaze fit the bill -- unfortunately, both the arbor & the roses are in the wrong place, as it turns out, but........ until I get the arbor through which no dogs can run, it will have to do). I'm wondering because I just cut off about 3' from a cane that was heading up into a nearby Dogwood, and I might have been able to do something more productive with the cane. (The roses & Dogwood were not on a collision course until Hurricane Floyd, but the best-laid plans....) Anne Lurie Raleigh, NC "Shiva" wrote in message s.com... On 14 Jun 2003 16:16:33 GMT, (VRB300) wrote: Would love to hear others' stories of The Wrong Roses I purchased what was clearly labeled as a climber (Don Juan) and also planted at the back door. The plant appears for all intents and puposes to be a"regular" bush since the 4 canes each have a flowering bud at the tip. I thought climbers bloomed on laterals(I am not a rose officianado). Am I barking up the wrong "cane"? Nope. It looks like a "regular" bush until one cane grows too long to stand up by itself and falls over. Then it sprouts beautiful lateral canes every couple of inches or so. You can also hurry it along by bending them yourself, I suppose. Mine is in its third year, groing on a chain link fence. Many long canes horizontal with many, many laterals, some of which have fallen over and sprouted laterals. It is in its second major flush at the moment--has climbed 10 feet up into the mature hollies behind it. There is nothing like sticking your nose in a Don Juan bloom warm from the morning sun. Rosy, lovely scent! Velvety petals! It just gets better and better with time. Mine is in full sun--FULL full sun--gets at least 9 hours. Water it lots and lots and it will make you happy. Vince |
Long grizzle - wrong roses!
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:06:20 GMT, (Shiva) wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 15:54:41 -0500, dave weil wrote: Well, this was all helpful stuff. I wasn't worried too much about the little trellis, but the tree was something that I wanted to eventually hide. Maybe I can work the lateral thing to my advantage by wrapping the canes *around* the trunk of the tree rather than training the canes *up* the trunk. We'll see. Here's a thought: add some other climbers. Don Juan is small for a climber, judging from what many have said. Bob Bauer said its canes gets no more than 12 or 15 feel long. Most people worry about containig a giant climber--with your tree, you have no such worries. I like two different types of roses intertwined together. That is what I wanted to happen with Don and Sombreuil, but they have not bloomed at the same time, so that's a bust so far. Have you considered Zepherine Drohine [spelling!!]? Jane's up in Maryland is outstanding. This is a good idea. Actually, I went whole hog and planted *two* Don Juans under this tree g. And now, I've looked carefully at the tree and I realize that 10 - 12 ft. canes will cover most of the tree (it's a spindly little thing, after all of the hacking that I did to it trying to save it). So, I might be able to get away with *just* the Don Juans. The drooping cane thing might work to my advantage if I let one long cane from each plant to get, say, about 6 or 7 feet tall and then train it downwards. I might be able to generate a nice girth of rose around the tree this way. I'm hoping to train each of them up each of the remaining branches and then have them cross over in the middle. Here's a pic to give perspective. The stub of a branch in the middle is about 6 feet tall. Another 6 feet takes us about 2/3rd 3/4s of the way up the branches. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/DJClimbers.jpg But you've got me thinking that growing Cecile Brunner CL on the other side of the trunk might be cool, contrasting big red blooms with more delicate small blossoms weaving in and out. Since I've got a *real* specimen CB at the moment, I'd probably choose something different (and a different color as well). Sombreuil has been an underperformer for me (mainly due to the lack of afternoon sun I think) but that works well for its location, which is fairly limited in size anyway. I like mine okay except for the fact that it ages so ugly. I love the blushy center. But I am not really attracted to roses with 9,000 itsy bitsy petals. It is a lot more shallow-cupped than I had thought it would be. My problem with Sombreuil stems from the fact that it was a spindly little thing when I got it (part of the reason that I don't order from Vintage Gardens any more). It's done surprisingly well in its third season, and, as I've said, it's probably for the best, although I hope to eventually create a wall of rose on the porch. I've got 10 foot canes, but the ends aren't very vigorous. The other limiting factor is that it shares its little pied a terre with a vigorous stand of mint. I'm constantly ripping out an area of mint around it. I guess I'm disappointed that it hasn't been nearly as vigorous as CB, which was planted at the same time. CB has been really amazing in terms of coverage. Here's a recent pic: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/CBJune10.jpg The tallest part of the plant is about 10 feet up. It would be much taller, but I've arched some of the longest canes to create an illusion of a tree and bush (making the top part rounded, as you can plainly see). I really like the effect and now that the second flush of blooms is fading, it's starting to throw some long canes straight upward. I just wish that Sombreuil would do this. Instead, it's just sitting there, with only one new cane coming out of one of the foundation canes (and not basal growth either). Well, it just has a different growth habit, plus, it doesn't get all day sun like CB does. I've also planted a "President" clematis at the base of the tree (you can barely see one of those little wooden "arbors" that come in the pots of clematises). I'm hoping that it takes off, because the big violet blooms will really make this thing look striking, I think. I think that the bottom part of CB will provide the cover that the roots need. On the left, you can see the new Belami planting. There are three there, and I think that a good 6 foot "bush" of Belami will be pretty striking in and of itself, plus, it will give me dozens and dozens of blooms. I can see you thinking, "*Great*, a 6 foot bush of dozens of pink HTs...well, at least they smell great..." Boy, am I vebose this morning... |
Long grizzle - wrong roses!
dave weil wrote:
Sombreuil has been an underperformer for me (mainly due to the lack of afternoon sun I think) but that works well for its location, which is fairly limited in size anyway. I like mine okay except for the fact that it ages so ugly. I love the blushy center. But I am not really attracted to roses with 9,000 itsy bitsy petals. It is a lot more shallow-cupped than I had thought it would be. My problem with Sombreuil stems from the fact that it was a spindly little thing when I got it (part of the reason that I don't order from Vintage Gardens any more). It's done surprisingly well in its third season, and, as I've said, it's probably for the best, although I hope to eventually create a wall of rose on the porch. I've got 10 foot canes, but the ends aren't very vigorous. I also have it own root from Vintage and so far, it is a 5 foot shrub. You're way ahead if you have 10 foot cane. My budded Sombreuil tends to throw relatively show basals but then continuing laterals that are pretty long. I've heard that you should feed it a lot ("push it" is the expression used). a vigorous stand of mint. We call this redundant. ;~) I guess I'm disappointed that it hasn't been nearly as vigorous as CB, which was planted at the same time. CB has been really amazing in terms of coverage. Here's a recent pic: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/CBJune10.jpg If you want a tree climber, how about a rambler mixed in there with a rebloomer? Long John Silver throws 12 to 16 foot canes the first summer. Ahh, myrrh scent, white white blooms with tons of petals, in clusters. Here's a cluster from a distance with a visitor posing: http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...knLongJohn.jpg Here's a bunch stuffed in a vase of other other once bloomers: http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...ges/Oncers.jpg Closeup actually in focus, unlike the others: http://www.rosefog.us/imagesJtoZ/LongJohnSilver2.jpg It's a species hybrid, so it should be hardy for you. |
Long grizzle - wrong roses!
On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 09:33:13 -0700, Cass
wrote: dave weil wrote: Sombreuil has been an underperformer for me (mainly due to the lack of afternoon sun I think) but that works well for its location, which is fairly limited in size anyway. I like mine okay except for the fact that it ages so ugly. I love the blushy center. But I am not really attracted to roses with 9,000 itsy bitsy petals. It is a lot more shallow-cupped than I had thought it would be. My problem with Sombreuil stems from the fact that it was a spindly little thing when I got it (part of the reason that I don't order from Vintage Gardens any more). It's done surprisingly well in its third season, and, as I've said, it's probably for the best, although I hope to eventually create a wall of rose on the porch. I've got 10 foot canes, but the ends aren't very vigorous. I also have it own root from Vintage and so far, it is a 5 foot shrub. Really disappointing, eh? Have you had better luck with other Vintage Garden roses? You're way ahead if you have 10 foot cane. My budded Sombreuil tends to throw relatively show basals but then continuing laterals that are pretty long. I've heard that you should feed it a lot ("push it" is the expression used). So far, laterals have been pretty anemic. However, I've noticed a second one that's popped up that I just noticed. a vigorous stand of mint. We call this redundant. ;~) Yes, I suppose so. I guess I'm disappointed that it hasn't been nearly as vigorous as CB, which was planted at the same time. CB has been really amazing in terms of coverage. Here's a recent pic: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/CBJune10.jpg If you want a tree climber, how about a rambler mixed in there with a rebloomer? Long John Silver throws 12 to 16 foot canes the first summer. Ahh, myrrh scent, white white blooms with tons of petals, in clusters. Here's a cluster from a distance with a visitor posing: http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...knLongJohn.jpg Here's a bunch stuffed in a vase of other other once bloomers: http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...ges/Oncers.jpg Closeup actually in focus, unlike the others: http://www.rosefog.us/imagesJtoZ/LongJohnSilver2.jpg It's a species hybrid, so it should be hardy for you. I created a new gallery that shows Sombreuil. It's a huge gallery because I used most of my June 2003 Week 2 folder and I was too lazy to prune it (just like my gardening skills. You'll see lots of redundent images and some wildy differing exposures, because none of the shots without dedicated names, i.e. Yard001, etc. have been tweaked in any way. To go to the Sombreuil shots, jump to #192 and keep going. You'll see the growth habits, to include the rather weenie ends, ends that sort of taper off into nothingness. Also, you see in contrast, how vigorous Old Blush and The Fairy climbers are. On 198, you can see the 9 foot cane arching to the sky, and it's only one of about 8 5ft + new canes. The Fairy also has lots of new vigorous canes. If you go through the entire gallery, you can see what the gardens have looked like in the past week. As I said, there are a few redundent shots, so be patient. Of course, to fit the shots on my web site, I had to reduce the size. Also, there may be a few shots that were shot with portrait orientation and need to be rotated, but I don't have time to go through, so you'll likely see a few sideways shots. ....a few minutes later... Well, I *was* going to post this gallery, but unfortunately it's about 260 megs, even having downsized the pics groan Guess I'm going to have to do some pruning. Then again, can I zip it down and still have it display properly? Anyone have any tactics about this sort of thing? |
Long grizzle - wrong roses!
In article , dave weil
wrote: On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 09:33:13 -0700, Cass wrote: dave weil wrote: Sombreuil has been an underperformer for me (mainly due to the lack of afternoon sun I think) but that works well for its location, which is fairly limited in size anyway. I like mine okay except for the fact that it ages so ugly. I love the blushy center. But I am not really attracted to roses with 9,000 itsy bitsy petals. It is a lot more shallow-cupped than I had thought it would be. My problem with Sombreuil stems from the fact that it was a spindly little thing when I got it (part of the reason that I don't order from Vintage Gardens any more). It's done surprisingly well in its third season, and, as I've said, it's probably for the best, although I hope to eventually create a wall of rose on the porch. I've got 10 foot canes, but the ends aren't very vigorous. I also have it own root from Vintage and so far, it is a 5 foot shrub. Really disappointing, eh? Have you had better luck with other Vintage Garden roses? All kinds of luck, good and bad. I don't think it has anything to do with coming from Vintage Gardens. Sombreuil aka Colonial White is slow to grow on it's own roots. Could be my soils, could be lack of sun, poor water, any number of things. I have roses that are 24 inches here that grow to 4 x 6 in Gregg Lowry's home garden. You're way ahead if you have 10 foot cane. My budded Sombreuil tends to throw relatively show basals but then continuing laterals that are pretty long. I've heard that you should feed it a lot ("push it" is the expression used). So far, laterals have been pretty anemic. However, I've noticed a second one that's popped up that I just noticed. a vigorous stand of mint. We call this redundant. ;~) Yes, I suppose so. I guess I'm disappointed that it hasn't been nearly as vigorous as CB, which was planted at the same time. CB has been really amazing in terms of coverage. Here's a recent pic: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/CBJune10.jpg If you want a tree climber, how about a rambler mixed in there with a rebloomer? Long John Silver throws 12 to 16 foot canes the first summer. Ahh, myrrh scent, white white blooms with tons of petals, in clusters. Here's a cluster from a distance with a visitor posing: http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...knLongJohn.jpg Here's a bunch stuffed in a vase of other other once bloomers: http://home.earthlink.net/~cbernstei...ges/Oncers.jpg Closeup actually in focus, unlike the others: http://www.rosefog.us/imagesJtoZ/LongJohnSilver2.jpg It's a species hybrid, so it should be hardy for you. I created a new gallery that shows Sombreuil. It's a huge gallery .... Well, I *was* going to post this gallery, but unfortunately it's about 260 megs, even having downsized the pics groan Guess I'm going to have to do some pruning. Then again, can I zip it down and still have it display properly? Anyone have any tactics about this sort of thing? Do you have photoshop or Photoshop elements? You can batch process them using automation tool and chop everything down to 400 x 600 pixels? Or make a web photo gallery and specify large image size and then upload the html and folders? Photoshop Elements also makes pdf slide shows...tho I don't know how to set up pdf for web access. Probably have to buy Acrobat (horrors). |
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