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Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
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Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
JohnH wrote: (Kevin Eanes) wrote in message . com... SNIP It was not clear to me how the use of concrete blocks would eliminate the need for pesticide. However, there are a variety of viable alternatives to the use of pesticide. The average cost per acre for pesticide (including fungicide) in the US is $24.69 per acre annually. SNIP Best regards, -Kevin Pest reduction is achieved by dropping said concrete blocks on snails unfortunatly the grasshoppers we have here just kick them back at you. Regards John The concreteblock method is really misnamed. It is really the MowingMethod for it combines two steps of the PetrolbasedFarmMethod. It combines fertilizing with herbicide and eliminates both in the process of mowing between crop rows. What I do not know at this moment in time is whether a strip of legumes instead of weeds and grasses would provide a second cash crop along with the soybeans and corn. I do not know if some legumes would fertilize the corn and soybeans with their underground roots of nitrogen fixing bacteria and whether the above ground clippings can be thus sold as a second cash crop. Or whether the clippings are also needed for fertilizer. So no concreteblock are really needed if one uses the Mowing Method. But the block will make the Mowing Method that much better. You could say perfect the Mowing Method. A poor Peruvian farmer is not going to have the money to invest in putting concrete block on his 20 acres but a Organic farmer in Iowa with each yearly profits can begin to line rows of concrete block on his 20 acres and same for nearly all the farmers of Europe. A NorthDakota farmer with weed spurge infestations cannot make a profit since the cost of herbicide exceeds the crop sales. But if he planted his rows so that he can mow between the crop and thus use the weeds as fertilizer then those fields of infestation will yield him a yearly profit provided he keep the mowing cost to a minimum. The MowingMethod addresses pest control better than the Petrolbased Method because in the mowing method we are not restricted to fields of monocultures. And that is really what drives up the population of insect pests when entire states have corn and soybean fields. Disaster from insect pests and other pests is just an invitation for disaster when you have monocultures. In the MowingMethod without Concreteblock you can diversify each farm field with many different crops to reduce pests. And the maximum of the MowingMethod which is to apply ConcreteBlock you increase the number of spiders by very much since the spiders love that block as a home to anchor on. Almost everyone of my block has resident spiders. I am in favor of biotech seeds that are antipest plants. The corn that is anti worm. So if these biotech seeds need a planting that is special from that of the petrolbased farming then the concreteblock method maybe that protection and added care that these specialty seeds need. I acknowledge that the Mowing Method combines both fertilizing and herbicide into one and eliminates those two, but that the Mowing Method still faces the challenges of pest control that the Petrolbased Method deals with. However, the Mowing Method with its ConcreteBlock application may not be pest free but it reduces pests whereas the Petrolbased method increases pests. Archimedes Plutonium, whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
Archimedes Plutonium wrote in message ...
Kevin, the most important data for me at this moment in time is to find out if any of the 50 or more University Aggie schools have done their homework. Have done the research and found out how much grass clippings and weed clippings via a mower equals a "fair sprinkling of fertilizer". Kevin, are you privy to any data or information as to how much grass and weed mowing clippings would it take to fertilize a row of corn in perpituity? I just have the ugly feeling that Aggie College professors are mostly salesperson proxies to the chemical and agribusiness companies and have spent the entire 20th century touting herbicides and not a single one of them researching how much grass/weed clippings is equal to artificial fertilizer application. (snipped) The most important data I need at this time is how much grass/weed clippings in mowing is needed for a row of corn so that it is fertilized during the summer? I need to know if 3 feet is the proper spacing. Of course some crops such as beans need less fertilizing by clippings than does corn. I need to know if any scientists have made that knowledge available. How much grass/weed clippings equals a cupful of common fertilizer? Archimedes, A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is: N 2.16% P 0.64% K 2.00% Of course this will vary, but the above are average numbers. However, the clippings from Mower Farming will also include weeds which will change the numbers. Perhaps if I knew the species of the weeds I could come up with the fertilizer values for the weeds. Typical corn fertilizer requirements a N 80 lbs./acre P 70 lbs./acre K 120 lbs./acre The above corn fertilizer requirements are average numbers. Actual needs will vary, mainly depending on (1) the results of soil testing, (2) what other crops are planted in rotation with the corn (soybeans work well), and (3) the desired crop yield. To meet the above "typical" corn fertilizer requirements with the above "typical" grass clippings would require about 3.5 tons of grass clippings per acre. However each farm is a unique situation due to varying soil conditions and varying fertilizer value of the grass/weed clippings. I don't know the yield of grass/weed clippings per acre. If one could obtain this or estimate it, then one could calculate the optimal ratio of acres of grass/weeds to acres of corn and then use that ratio to calculate the optimal spacing. Best Regards, -Kevin |
Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
Sun, 01 Jun 2003 22:43:18 -0500 Dean Hoffman wrote: Can I butt in once more? I was listening to a show called AgPHD. They were talking about controlling weeds in corn. They said studies show grass even one inch tall will start to cut yields. They didn't say who did the studies. A show such as that is more sales than it is science. There is some sprinkling of science in that TV show but it is more prone to sales pitches and sales convincing. Here is a counterexample: I had corn some 2 years ago where one row was kept in black dirt of hoeing and one row was on the border of a patch of brome grass that I was often unable to cut the grass until it was a foot tall and the endresult was that the yields from the black dirt corn was not any different from the brome grass mowed row of corn. However, there was a difference in disease between the blackdirt corn and the grass infested corn in that the grass infested corn was less diseased than the hoed corn. That white stuff that grows on the corn ears and makes it look like popcorn was affecting the dirt grown corn whereas the grassy grown corn seemed to be disease free. Perhaps disease and insects when they see a monoculture field and so much dirt exposed have an easier time of infestation than if they have a choice between grass, weeds and the corn. It's a pretty fair bet that anything affecting crop yields has been studied. For example a planting depth of 2" is best for the development of a corn plant's root system. There have been studies on the value of human waste as fertilizer. One pound of nitrogen is needed for each bushel of corn produced. I doubt that any detailed ag study of where you combine herbicide with fertilizing via Mowing and thus eliminate ever the need to apply herbicide or to apply fertilizer was done. I mean a "detailed study" because it would compete with the huge chemical herbicide and fertilizer companies which comprise perhaps 1/2 of the entire agriculture business. Once farmers never need to go to the store to buy herbicide or fertilizer then they need seldom need the store at all. Of course you increase the need of stores that sell and handle Mowers. Farmers themselves test things. Did so and so pesticide work as well as the old one? Was it cheaper? Did the application do enough good to justify the cost? Nutrients and water are removed from the land each time a crop is harvested. Naturally they have to be replaced each year to maintain yields. Commonsense should rule here. Most lawns in the USA are seldom if ever fertilized yet they are nice and bright green and plush. The reason is because they are mowed so often that they are self-fertilized. Plants have grown on land for millions of years and billions of years before ever any human ran around sprinkling fertilizer. There is a natural fertilizer cycle and it involves the use of plant clipping and plant decay to return nutrients to the soil. Of course, when you make a field black exposed dirt every summer you need to add artificial fertilizer. But when you have your field respond to the natural rythms of plant cycles of cut and clip and decay then fertilizer is a renewable entity. Farming via the petrolbased method where heavy machinery is the answer to every problem on the farm is only a one or two century aberration of history. A time period in which humanity has found huge oil reserves and like a kid in a ice cream parlor allowed to eat anything. Someday soon in the future gasoline prices will make it such that farming has to go renewable instead of this big machine equipment and diesel solving problems. Petrol based farming has been here only since about 1930 and I see its demise sometime in the 21st century. Renewable farming has been here since prehistory and soon it will start to crowd out petrolbased farming as the aberration of history that it truly is. Archimedes Plutonium, whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
Kevin Eanes writes
A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is: N 2.16% P 0.64% K 2.00% These look to me to be %age IN THE DRYMATTER. Allowing a DM% of say 15% means your 3.5T of clippings should be somewhere approaching 25T fresh. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
2 Jun 2003 08:53:21 -0700 Kevin Eanes wrote:
Archimedes, A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is: N 2.16% P 0.64% K 2.00% Of course this will vary, but the above are average numbers. However, the clippings from Mower Farming will also include weeds which will change the numbers. Perhaps if I knew the species of the weeds I could come up with the fertilizer values for the weeds. I have alot of morningglory, velvetleaf, dogbane, burdock, dandelions. I do not know if there exists something we can call an "average weed". Take an average of that between a velvetleaf and dandelion. If I did nothing to my yards they would revert to bromegrass, in tough matts of roots underground. Kevin, I am surprized that grass clippings has any P or K. I think that one aspect of Mow farming compared to Petrolbased farming that is overlooked is the amount of underground soil activity of insects such as earthworms that the robin bird loves to eat. I would hazard to guess that earthworm populations are a huge contributor to the fertilization of plants and that a field farmed via mowing has much more earthworm and insect activity as fertilizer than a petrolbased farmed field. Typical corn fertilizer requirements a N 80 lbs./acre P 70 lbs./acre K 120 lbs./acre The above corn fertilizer requirements are average numbers. Actual needs will vary, mainly depending on (1) the results of soil testing, (2) what other crops are planted in rotation with the corn (soybeans work well), and (3) the desired crop yield. I wonder whether the Amish and 19th century farming ever came to a conclusion it was okay to let weeds and grass grow amoung their corn so long as they kept them cut around 5 to 10 times per summer. To meet the above "typical" corn fertilizer requirements with the above "typical" grass clippings would require about 3.5 tons of grass clippings per acre. However each farm is a unique situation due to varying soil conditions and varying fertilizer value of the grass/weed clippings. Trying to get a mental picture of what 3.5 tons of grass is. I wonder how many bails of hay that a person lifts is equivalent. I don't know the yield of grass/weed clippings per acre. If one could obtain this or estimate it, then one could calculate the optimal ratio of acres of grass/weeds to acres of corn and then use that ratio to calculate the optimal spacing. Best Regards, -Kevin My guess is that there are thousands of farmers in Europe and NorthAmerica that already are farming or gardening using the Mower method and yet they do not realize it. I would guess that most every backyard gardener seldom applies any fertilizer to his/her crop and that they all mow the grass near their garden. I bet there are thousands of farmers who never use herbicides and who seldom use fertilizer and who mow between their crop rows to keep it looking good and not realizing that their mowing is fertilizing. So that if all of these farmers can be polled, tallied and spoken to about their operation, that we have more data and knowledge on MowerFarming than what we suspect. Kevin, an interesting question is whether legumes such as alfalfa and clover provide fertilizer to nearby corn and soybeans from their root systems and whether a farm can have two simultaneous cash crops of corn and clover. I have seen alfalfa only solo in fields and never corn and alfalfa together. But if it is true that the alfalfa root system alone provides fertilizer to nearby corn and that the cut alfalfa can be sold as a cash crop, then that would be an added incentive to convert to the Mower Farming Method. Archimedes Plutonium, whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
"Archimedes Plutonium" wrote in message ... 2 Jun 2003 08:53:21 -0700 Kevin Eanes wrote: Archimedes, A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is: N 2.16% P 0.64% K 2.00% Of course this will vary, but the above are average numbers. However, the clippings from Mower Farming will also include weeds which will change the numbers. Perhaps if I knew the species of the weeds I could come up with the fertilizer values for the weeds. I have alot of morningglory, velvetleaf, dogbane, burdock, dandelions. I do not know if there exists something we can call an "average weed". Take an average of that between a velvetleaf and dandelion. If I did nothing to my yards they would revert to bromegrass, in tough matts of roots underground. Kevin, I am surprized that grass clippings has any P or K. why does that not surprise anyone. Someone ask him what he thinks plants need P and K for if they don't actually have a use for it Jim Webster |
Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
"Archimedes Plutonium" wrote in message ... 2 Jun 2003 08:53:21 -0700 Kevin Eanes wrote: Archimedes, A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is: N 2.16% P 0.64% K 2.00% Of course this will vary, but the above are average numbers. However, the clippings from Mower Farming will also include weeds which will change the numbers. Perhaps if I knew the species of the weeds I could come up with the fertilizer values for the weeds. I have alot of morningglory, velvetleaf, dogbane, burdock, dandelions. I do not know if there exists something we can call an "average weed". Take an average of that between a velvetleaf and dandelion. If I did nothing to my yards they would revert to bromegrass, in tough matts of roots underground. Kevin, I am surprized that grass clippings has any P or K. why does that not surprise anyone. Someone ask him what he thinks plants need P and K for if they don't actually have a use for it Jim Webster |
Concreteblock farming; Agriculture of the future
"Kevin Eanes" wrote in message om... Archimedes Plutonium wrote in message ... Archimedes, A typical NPK fertilizer value for grass clippings is: N 2.16% P 0.64% K 2.00% Hi Kevin. Is there any nitrogen in grass clippings? I thought only certain plants (legumes??) could extract nitrogen from the air and 'fix' it into the soil. Something like soybeans? Well, I guess any plant has *some* nitrogen in its structure, but that just came from the soil in the first place didn't it? Of course this will vary, but the above are average numbers. However, the clippings from Mower Farming will also include weeds which will change the numbers. Perhaps if I knew the species of the weeds I could come up with the fertilizer values for the weeds. Typical corn fertilizer requirements a N 80 lbs./acre P 70 lbs./acre K 120 lbs./acre If I understand Archimedes' idea correctly, the grass clippings come from the same field that the corn is planted in. Wouldn't this deplete the soil of nutrients? Seems like taking nutrients in the form of corn ears out of a field repeatedly would gradually deplete the soil. Farmers put nutrients back into the field from animal waste or chemicals. Granted, Archimedes probably won't live long enough to see his field turn into useless land, but his off-spring will inherit the results of poor crop management?? Wasn't this part of what created the 'great dustbowl' during the depression? A drought true, but overfarming the same crops year-after-year depleted the soil? But if the grass clippings are constantly recycled into the soil, then the only nutrient loss is the harvested crop. And he has a point that the 'ecosystem' of worms, insects, etc... is probably much healthier than hoed dirt, right?? just curious, daestrom |
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