Byssinosis from GM cotton?
 

In sci.med.nutrition Gordon Couger wrote:

"Mooshie peas" wrote in message
...
On 22 Aug 2003 23:32:50 GMT, Brian Sandle
posted:

Thomas Mueller wrote:
Excerpt from Brian Sandle :

Recent news has stated how Monsanto are embarassed by this: many GM
crop
fields are now plagued by weeds resistant to Roundup herbicide. That
means
extra doses of Roundup and other herbicides are being applied. Does
any
of it stay in the cotton lint, and on to the spun thread?

If the lint of Bt cotton does not contain Bt I wonder if insects will
adapt to eating mainly the lint, thereby escaping too much toxin. Does
a
wood borer get energy from cellulose?

Heavy use of Roundup for weed control in connection with Roundup-ready
GM crops
whose seeds are produced by Monsanto leads to the weeds evolving
resistance to
Roundup, just as insects have evolved resistance to insecticides.

As well as the fields getting filled with plants like nettles which
already had resistance.

So how were nettles being dealt with in the past?
You seem to want to blame RR crops for the nettle problem.

As Gordon showed us:

http://www.couger.com/farm. He said the weeds are nettles and will
go down with the first dose of Roundup. But I have recently posted
`weeds' thread, that anettles are not so susceptible to Roundup. A
mix with pursuit is needed.

Which nettles, BTW? Nettles are pehaps not as susceptible to Roundup
as other weeds? I don't know, but it seems to me that nettles are
totally irrelevant.

So maybe the Roundup had already applied.

Applied what?

Gordon said the yellow colour of those plants was younger age,
compared to his ones.

Or maybe Or maybe Roundup (glyphosate) causes some yellowing, in
Roundup Ready plants, even if not as much as Zeneca's sulfosinate

http://www.weeds.iastate.edu/weednews/monsantoad.jpg

thanks Torsten.

How come the Zeneca plants are bigger, and the soil is yellower? :)


Zeneca's plants are soybeans not cotton at a later stage of maturity.

Do you think Monsanto would be silly enough to be comparing two
different crops in the advertisement?

I would say the Roundup-treated crop is photographed from a bit
further away and is a bit out of focus, maybe so some peculiarities
of the plants are not so easy to see? Those white balls I would say
are added afterwards.

In the image of the Roundup-treated crop the ground does not show,
it is covered by mulch. That is the different colour. Also the
shadows are not so intense in the Roundup-treated picture -- less
strong sunlight? That might enhance the greeness.

The advertisement says the Roundup Ultra will kill 145 different
weeds. Is the Ultra the normal Roundup or does it cost extra? Is it
just glyphosate active ingredient?

Bermuda grass, cats' ears, blackberries, ivy, poison-oak,
poison-ivy, and other tough shrubs going to be a problem without
extra Roundup or other herbicides?

Byssinosis from GM cotton?
 

In sci.med.nutrition Gordon Couger wrote:

"Mooshie peas" wrote in message
...
On 22 Aug 2003 23:32:50 GMT, Brian Sandle
posted:

Thomas Mueller wrote:
Excerpt from Brian Sandle :

Recent news has stated how Monsanto are embarassed by this: many GM
crop
fields are now plagued by weeds resistant to Roundup herbicide. That
means
extra doses of Roundup and other herbicides are being applied. Does
any
of it stay in the cotton lint, and on to the spun thread?

If the lint of Bt cotton does not contain Bt I wonder if insects will
adapt to eating mainly the lint, thereby escaping too much toxin. Does
a
wood borer get energy from cellulose?

Heavy use of Roundup for weed control in connection with Roundup-ready
GM crops
whose seeds are produced by Monsanto leads to the weeds evolving
resistance to
Roundup, just as insects have evolved resistance to insecticides.

As well as the fields getting filled with plants like nettles which
already had resistance.

So how were nettles being dealt with in the past?
You seem to want to blame RR crops for the nettle problem.

As Gordon showed us:

http://www.couger.com/farm. He said the weeds are nettles and will
go down with the first dose of Roundup. But I have recently posted
`weeds' thread, that anettles are not so susceptible to Roundup. A
mix with pursuit is needed.

Which nettles, BTW? Nettles are pehaps not as susceptible to Roundup
as other weeds? I don't know, but it seems to me that nettles are
totally irrelevant.

So maybe the Roundup had already applied.

Applied what?

Gordon said the yellow colour of those plants was younger age,
compared to his ones.

Or maybe Or maybe Roundup (glyphosate) causes some yellowing, in
Roundup Ready plants, even if not as much as Zeneca's sulfosinate

http://www.weeds.iastate.edu/weednews/monsantoad.jpg

thanks Torsten.

How come the Zeneca plants are bigger, and the soil is yellower? :)


Zeneca's plants are soybeans not cotton at a later stage of maturity.

Do you think Monsanto would be silly enough to be comparing two
different crops in the advertisement?

I would say the Roundup-treated crop is photographed from a bit
further away and is a bit out of focus, maybe so some peculiarities
of the plants are not so easy to see? Those white balls I would say
are added afterwards.

In the image of the Roundup-treated crop the ground does not show,
it is covered by mulch. That is the different colour. Also the
shadows are not so intense in the Roundup-treated picture -- less
strong sunlight? That might enhance the greeness.

The advertisement says the Roundup Ultra will kill 145 different
weeds. Is the Ultra the normal Roundup or does it cost extra? Is it
just glyphosate active ingredient?

Bermuda grass, cats' ears, blackberries, ivy, poison-oak,
poison-ivy, and other tough shrubs going to be a problem without
extra Roundup or other herbicides?

Byssinosis from GM cotton?
 

In sci.med.nutrition Mooshie peas wrote:
On 24 Aug 2003 12:57:49 GMT, Brian Sandle
posted:

Yes cattle are grass eaters. Yes they can be fed grain to fatten
them. Then some digestion is still progressing in the intestines and
the E.Coli can increase.

Isn't E coli in the feces of EVERY animal?

Yes but animals with rumens have less if not fed grain. When they
are fed grain to fatten them up it gets to a level of some concern.

Termites can have bacteria or bigger organisms in their guts which
digest cellulose for them.

What are the bigger organisms?

Flagellates. But it is not simple and differs between types of
termites.

The bollworm may be a bit simpler, but
who knows what may happen with the GM packages present in its feed?

Nothing different than any other scenario.

GM packages contain gene-swapping mechanisms.

The strength of the Bt tapers off as the plant reaches maturity so
OPs are still required for late stage protection.

So what?

So as the Bt strength tapers off there can be ideal conditions for
resistance to develop.

How is it WITHOUT BT?

No Bt selective pressure.


Attempts to
produce cotton with two different Bt genes to try to overcome that
have produced a rather low yielding cotton.

And so they've given up and gone home?

They decided not to release it.

Do you complain at the weather
every morning?

Give up if it is bad for a long time.

Byssinosis from GM cotton?
 

"Brian Sandle" wrote in message
...
In sci.med.nutrition Gordon Couger wrote:

"Mooshie peas" wrote in message
...
On 22 Aug 2003 23:32:50 GMT, Brian Sandle
posted:

Thomas Mueller wrote:
Excerpt from Brian Sandle :

Recent news has stated how Monsanto are embarassed by this: many GM
crop
fields are now plagued by weeds resistant to Roundup herbicide.
That
means
extra doses of Roundup and other herbicides are being applied.
Does
any
of it stay in the cotton lint, and on to the spun thread?

If the lint of Bt cotton does not contain Bt I wonder if insects
will
adapt to eating mainly the lint, thereby escaping too much toxin.
Does
a
wood borer get energy from cellulose?

Heavy use of Roundup for weed control in connection with
Roundup-ready
GM crops
whose seeds are produced by Monsanto leads to the weeds evolving
resistance to
Roundup, just as insects have evolved resistance to insecticides.

As well as the fields getting filled with plants like nettles which
already had resistance.

So how were nettles being dealt with in the past?
You seem to want to blame RR crops for the nettle problem.

As Gordon showed us:

http://www.couger.com/farm. He said the weeds are nettles and will
go down with the first dose of Roundup. But I have recently posted
`weeds' thread, that anettles are not so susceptible to Roundup. A
mix with pursuit is needed.

Which nettles, BTW? Nettles are pehaps not as susceptible to Roundup
as other weeds? I don't know, but it seems to me that nettles are
totally irrelevant.

So maybe the Roundup had already applied.

Applied what?

Gordon said the yellow colour of those plants was younger age,
compared to his ones.

Or maybe Or maybe Roundup (glyphosate) causes some yellowing, in
Roundup Ready plants, even if not as much as Zeneca's sulfosinate

http://www.weeds.iastate.edu/weednews/monsantoad.jpg

thanks Torsten.

How come the Zeneca plants are bigger, and the soil is yellower? :)


Zeneca's plants are soybeans not cotton at a later stage of maturity.

Do you think Monsanto would be silly enough to be comparing two
different crops in the advertisement?

That was not a cotton ad but a picture Torsten posted. You can't tell what
is going on.

I would say the Roundup-treated crop is photographed from a bit
further away and is a bit out of focus, maybe so some peculiarities
of the plants are not so easy to see? Those white balls I would say
are added afterwards.

In the image of the Roundup-treated crop the ground does not show,
it is covered by mulch. That is the different colour. Also the
shadows are not so intense in the Roundup-treated picture -- less
strong sunlight? That might enhance the greeness.

There was no round up treated cotton.

The advertisement says the Roundup Ultra will kill 145 different
weeds. Is the Ultra the normal Roundup or does it cost extra? Is it
just glyphosate active ingredient?

Different surfactants I beleive.

Bermuda grass, cats' ears, blackberries, ivy, poison-oak,
poison-ivy, and other tough shrubs going to be a problem without
extra Roundup or other herbicides?

They sure were before and they can still be if you apply the round up wrong
in the spring when they are just coming up. I have had the best luck late in
the fall if there is good moisture on all plants.

Gordon

Byssinosis from GM cotton?
 

"Brian Sandle" wrote in message
...
In sci.med.nutrition Gordon Couger wrote:

"Brian Sandle" wrote in message
...
In sci.med.nutrition Gordon Couger wrote:

"Brian Sandle" wrote in message
...
snip
More likely they used pre-planting Roundup to remove weeds which
would compete with the emerging cotton. But the nettles were not
killed.

Nettles are perennial plants that root deep in the ground. The
area had had one rain in 2 months that they planted cotton after.
They did not bother to spray a few nettles when they would have to
spray in week or two for the weed that came up after the rain. You
don't spend the money for a few nettles that you will get a better
kill on when they have more leaves and growth.

Showing resistance, then. That is why Pursuit is needed?

Where did you get the idea Prusuit was used?

As I posted:
_________________________________________

Subject: GM crop farms filled with weeds (Was: Paying to find non-GE
wild corn?)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,nz.general,sci.agriculture
Message-ID:
Date: 20 Aug 2003 23:38:36 -0500


On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 06:33:59 GMT
"Gordon Couger" wrote:
************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Sandle"
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,nz.general,sci.agriculture
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 7:45 PM
Subject: Paying to find non-GE wild corn?


: Gordon Couger wrote:
:
: "Brian Sandle" wrote in message
: ...
:
: shows the different in notil cotton and
: conventional till. In this case the notil is my neighbors
:
:
: What are the other plants in the no-till? Roundup-resistant?

No they haven't been sparyed yet. As I they are some kind of nettle that
the
first spray of round up will knock out.
*********

Are you sure?


Linkname: Managing Roundup-resistant alfalfa
URL:

http://westernfarmpress.com/ar/farmi...alfa/index.htm
size: 181 lines


"There are weeds Roundup is weak on nettles, cheeseweed and filaree
but a tank mix of Roundup and Pursuit could be a good combination when
those weeds are present," Hembree said.

___________________________________

The worm doesn't have any way to ferment cellulose. Your
speculations are typical of the idiotic thinking that is used to
oppose science of all kinds. You have no idea how any of this
works but still you think your opinion has some value. If you want
to participate in science go learn some.

Sometimes not knowing can help one to jump through possibly wrong
limitations that the current known imposes.

You need some basic knowledge of the subject and you contiunly get thing
wrong like boll weevil insted of boll worm

That's what Usenet newsgroups are about, correcting one anothers' lacks
isn't it?

and Prusuit insted of Round Up



Maybe you didn't see the above article or read the http the first time I
posted it.

You have cotton and beans crossed up again. Pressuit is not used in cotton
accoring to the label. Pay attantion.

and thinking that short lived catipelar in an isolated environemtn can
develop a gut flora and faua to digest celulose. All not knowing does is
make a fool of yourself.

Does the wood borer worm develop such to begin eating wood?


Yes cattle are grass eaters. Yes they can be fed grain to fatten
them. Then some digestion is still progressing in the intestines and
the E.Coli can increase.

E. coli0157 can be foud in cattle every where in the world no matter if
they
are fed grain or not.

Yes but a much more significant amount if grain-fed, since the digestive
process goes on into the intestines with grain-feeding, I think.


Termites can have bacteria or bigger organisms in their guts which
digest cellulose for them. The bollworm may be a bit simpler, but
who knows what may happen with the GM packages present in its feed?

The worm doesn't live long enough to develop the bacteria in it's gut
and
there is no way to inoculate the worms gut.

I know the wood borer worm lives longer, but so it can start eating when
it comes out of its egg I guess the cellulose processing must develop
straight away for it to be able to eat. I suppose maybe the cellulose just
has the nutrients scraped or dissolved off it, and is cast aside. But one
poster thougth it could get energy from cellulose.

Go back to alt.to.stupid.to.find.food.

Getting a bit rattled, eh?

I am not the one that can't tell what crop is what.

Gordon

Byssinosis from GM cotton?
 

On 26 Aug 2003 13:12:34 GMT, Brian Sandle
posted:

In sci.med.nutrition Mooshie peas wrote:
On 24 Aug 2003 12:57:49 GMT, Brian Sandle
posted:

Yes cattle are grass eaters. Yes they can be fed grain to fatten
them. Then some digestion is still progressing in the intestines and
the E.Coli can increase.

Isn't E coli in the feces of EVERY animal?

Yes but animals with rumens have less if not fed grain. When they
are fed grain to fatten them up it gets to a level of some concern.

What concern would that be? Your gut is full of it.

Termites can have bacteria or bigger organisms in their guts which
digest cellulose for them.

What are the bigger organisms?

Flagellates. But it is not simple and differs between types of
termites.

And the non-bacterial flagellates digest cellulose?

The bollworm may be a bit simpler, but
who knows what may happen with the GM packages present in its feed?

Nothing different than any other scenario.

GM packages contain gene-swapping mechanisms.

Like every other living organism.

The strength of the Bt tapers off as the plant reaches maturity so
OPs are still required for late stage protection.

So what?

So as the Bt strength tapers off there can be ideal conditions for
resistance to develop.

But only once per season, unlike the tapering off after EVERY
application of BT.

How is it WITHOUT BT?

No Bt selective pressure.

Just like when there are no pests on the crop.

Attempts to
produce cotton with two different Bt genes to try to overcome that
have produced a rather low yielding cotton.

And so they've given up and gone home?

They decided not to release it.

And?

Do you complain at the weather
every morning?

Give up if it is bad for a long time.

I've found that the weather doesn't care what I think, and as what I
think is the only thing I have control over....