Barton Springs toxic
There is always arsenic and atrazine in water.
How many people have died or become sick? Then it can't be "that" toxic. Settle down and take a breather. "cat daddy" wrote in message ... "animaux" wrote in message ... On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:36:30 -0600, "cat daddy" wrote: I am just sick over this. For the past five Summers, and especially the last two, my Labrador Caitlin and I have gone swimming almost every day at the spillway. I *trusted* the city's tests of the water quality and believed it to be the safest water around. *******s........... Yeah, well, they closed the pool, but they are still insisting this is nothing to be twisted about. Ya know why? Because they lose and stand to lose a lot of revenue from this. People come from all over the world to Austin to swim in Barton Springs Pool. They still somehow feel that, even though higher levels of toxins were found in and near spillways into the Spring, sometimes as high and higher than toxic waste dumps...hmmmm, money, money, money, money.....MONEY. Or, politics, damage control, and liability. Toby looked a little over defensive in the press conference. If it turns out not to be a 100+ year old problem, the current and recent parties to blame will have bought time to bail out of the responsibility.... |
Barton Springs toxic
I don't want ANY toxic matter going into my body. Any amount is dangerous and
can cause cancers. You can settle down and take a breather, I prefer to be diligent. Are you using a Green Peace address because you are associated with Green Peace, or is it just another of those fake email addresses? On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 01:52:35 GMT, "Gloria Donatello" wrote: There is always arsenic and atrazine in water. How many people have died or become sick? Then it can't be "that" toxic. Settle down and take a breather. "cat daddy" wrote in message ... "animaux" wrote in message ... On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:36:30 -0600, "cat daddy" wrote: I am just sick over this. For the past five Summers, and especially the last two, my Labrador Caitlin and I have gone swimming almost every day at the spillway. I *trusted* the city's tests of the water quality and believed it to be the safest water around. *******s........... Yeah, well, they closed the pool, but they are still insisting this is nothing to be twisted about. Ya know why? Because they lose and stand to lose a lot of revenue from this. People come from all over the world to Austin to swim in Barton Springs Pool. They still somehow feel that, even though higher levels of toxins were found in and near spillways into the Spring, sometimes as high and higher than toxic waste dumps...hmmmm, money, money, money, money.....MONEY. Or, politics, damage control, and liability. Toby looked a little over defensive in the press conference. If it turns out not to be a 100+ year old problem, the current and recent parties to blame will have bought time to bail out of the responsibility.... |
Barton Springs toxic
On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:38:54 GMT, animaux
wrote: I don't want ANY toxic matter going into my body. Any amount is dangerous and can cause cancers. You can settle down and take a breather, I prefer to be diligent. Good luck with that . . . what sort of breathing apparatus are you using, BTW? K For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/. For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.../consumer.html |
Barton Springs toxic
IMHO, that overly-defensive attitude that "any amount is dangerous and can
cause cancers" is as liable to make one MORE susceptible to cancers as it is to prevent any. All pain and disease is a mysterious combination of body AND mind. It does not pay to give the omni-present "toxic matter" any more power than it might have had without our help. gary "Babberney" wrote in message news:0DA3910A7AF3F659.21A247A764BC420B.65379BAC8E9 ... On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:38:54 GMT, animaux wrote: I don't want ANY toxic matter going into my body. Any amount is dangerous and can cause cancers. You can settle down and take a breather, I prefer to be diligent. Good luck with that . . . what sort of breathing apparatus are you using, BTW? K For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/. For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.../consumer.html |
Barton Springs toxic
"animaux" wrote in message ... http://www.austin360.com/aas/special...119barton.html I urge anyone interested in the organic community read this letter. For years Barton Springs pool has been a natural moving body of water which is at the center of Austin in the city. Thousands of people come here just to swim in this natural pool from all over the place. Now it will be marked with sighs telling of the toxic levels of arsenic, atrazine, etc...and swim at your own risk. It's amazing to me that Ironite is still on the market and it is now my mission to get that product off the market, as I was passionate about the elimination of Diazinon and Dursban. Please, if you care about your environment, read this article. I am just sick over this. For the past five Summers, and especially the last two, my Labrador Caitlin and I have gone swimming almost every day at the spillway. I *trusted* the city's tests of the water quality and believed it to be the safest water around. *******s........... |
Barton Springs toxic
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:10:19 GMT, animaux
wrote: Yeah, well, they closed the pool, but they are still insisting this is nothing to be twisted about. Ya know why? Because they lose and stand to lose a lot of revenue from this. Well, they also used Barton Springs as a "club" over the years to beat anyone they thought might possibly be a potential polluter. Mostly they picked on peripheral sources for this. Such as my on-site waste disposal system (septic tank - drain field) and numerous developers west of MoPac/Loop 360 in general. So I think as much as anything some local environmental activists are very concerned that the "club" has been compromised and it may not be an effective weapon, anymore. The folks that may have disposed of coal gas wastes along Robert E. Lee Rd. are long gone and dead now, and you cant beat them. The more interesting aspect now becomes where are the metals they are finding coming from? Same source, or something else? Rusty Mase |
Barton Springs toxic
"animaux" wrote in message ... On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:36:30 -0600, "cat daddy" wrote: I am just sick over this. For the past five Summers, and especially the last two, my Labrador Caitlin and I have gone swimming almost every day at the spillway. I *trusted* the city's tests of the water quality and believed it to be the safest water around. *******s........... Yeah, well, they closed the pool, but they are still insisting this is nothing to be twisted about. Ya know why? Because they lose and stand to lose a lot of revenue from this. People come from all over the world to Austin to swim in Barton Springs Pool. They still somehow feel that, even though higher levels of toxins were found in and near spillways into the Spring, sometimes as high and higher than toxic waste dumps...hmmmm, money, money, money, money.....MONEY. Or, politics, damage control, and liability. Toby looked a little over defensive in the press conference. If it turns out not to be a 100+ year old problem, the current and recent parties to blame will have bought time to bail out of the responsibility.... |
Barton Springs toxic
"Babberney" wrote in message news:03DE78B448A49AC3.C9F897D8A64A17B8.DDB2D8EA2FB ... On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:36:30 -0600, "cat daddy" wrote: I am just sick over this. For the past five Summers, and especially the last two, my Labrador Caitlin and I have gone swimming almost every day at the spillway. I *trusted* the city's tests of the water quality and believed it to be the safest water around. *******s........... Well, now, they do still say the water is still relatively clean. They are concerned about sediment and algae that might be stirred up and swallowed, though. the comment about Futrell, I can't blame her if she's feeling defensive. Clearly, this problem existed long before she took the City's reins and yet she's getting the brunt of the flak over it. But, she was an assistant city manager for quite some time. The 90-day closure seems a little lengthy if the water is as safe as she says. Most frightening to me is the thought of what must be done to remove these contaminants--digging up the whole hillside seems the only way, and what a blow that would be to the plant life (and resident critters) there. Maybe when we get the full story, we'll be able to snicker at our overreaction (crossing fingers). I hope it's an over-reaction. I bought into the "drinking water" quality that they reported so often......... If they dig out the hill, I bet even more contaminants will be released into the Springs. |
Barton Springs toxic
Are there not quite a few people who swim in that pool every day, day in and
day out, even all through the winter -- and have done so for many, many years? I'll bet there are some who have been swimming there for several decades, from childhood. Seems to me that the City could advertise for these people, try to get them to volunteer and/or pay them, and then do some blood tests (or whatever is appropriate) to see if their bodies have higher levels of these toxic chemicals. That would not produce a final answer, of course, and the results would not necessarily apply to other animals who also use the water, but it sure would go a long way to convince people one way or the other that the water was or was not dangerous to them. Of course, there would be a faction that would not want this kind of evidence to become known, unless they knew beforehand that the results would fall their way. gary austin B.Server wrote in message ... On 20 Jan 2003 12:19:42 -0800, (Steve Coyle) wrote: Odd about this whole thing, is how quickly the city acted to shut down for ninety days on the basis of the Austin American Statesman news paper report. Why not two weeks or six months, with what little they know I don't know how they can pick a specific time frame. More realistic it would seem, would be closing the springs until tests came back to see if closing the springs were actually necessary. Obviously the big fear on the City's part would be litigation. It always kills me listening to talk radio discussing payments the city makes to settle suits, instead of simply saying how much are you and I going to fork over in each case. I am curious, and I have no evidence on this, I'm just speculating but I'm curious, if this closing due to 'toxic' waste, is a fortuitous chance to save the city money considering the budget shortfall that are a recent and big problem. I would also certainly like to know what the city parks department has been using to fertilize the grass on the hill and the area above. There has been a lot of discussion about the toxicity of Ironite, being the tailings from an abamdoned silver mine in Humbolt Arizona but it is not the only commercially available fertilizer that uses industrial toxic waste 'recycled' as fertilizer. ( Anyone interested in this can read 'Fateful Harvest' by journalist Duff Wilson. ) take care' Steve Coyle www.austingardencenter.com My reading of the AAS article was that the city, having been shown the data obtained by the AAS, immediately ordered their own tests (on or about 10 Jan, as I recall) and then acted when their tests strongly confirmed the AAS specimens. So from my reading, they did not act only on the information provided by the AAS. On the other hand, they apparently ignored about a decades worth of their own data that strongly suggested something was amiss. |
Barton Springs toxic
On 20 Jan 2003 12:19:42 -0800, (Steve Coyle)
wrote: Odd about this whole thing, is how quickly the city acted to shut down for ninety days on the basis of the Austin American Statesman news paper report. Why not two weeks or six months, with what little they know I don't know how they can pick a specific time frame. More realistic it would seem, would be closing the springs until tests came back to see if closing the springs were actually necessary. Obviously the big fear on the City's part would be litigation. It always kills me listening to talk radio discussing payments the city makes to settle suits, instead of simply saying how much are you and I going to fork over in each case. I am curious, and I have no evidence on this, I'm just speculating but I'm curious, if this closing due to 'toxic' waste, is a fortuitous chance to save the city money considering the budget shortfall that are a recent and big problem. I would also certainly like to know what the city parks department has been using to fertilize the grass on the hill and the area above. There has been a lot of discussion about the toxicity of Ironite, being the tailings from an abamdoned silver mine in Humbolt Arizona but it is not the only commercially available fertilizer that uses industrial toxic waste 'recycled' as fertilizer. ( Anyone interested in this can read 'Fateful Harvest' by journalist Duff Wilson. ) take care' Steve Coyle www.austingardencenter.com My reading of the AAS article was that the city, having been shown the data obtained by the AAS, immediately ordered their own tests (on or about 10 Jan, as I recall) and then acted when their tests strongly confirmed the AAS specimens. So from my reading, they did not act only on the information provided by the AAS. On the other hand, they apparently ignored about a decades worth of their own data that strongly suggested something was amiss. |
Barton Springs toxic
On 20 Jan 2003 12:19:42 -0800, (Steve Coyle)
wrote: Odd about this whole thing, is how quickly the city acted to shut down for ninety days on the basis of the Austin American Statesman news paper report. Why not two weeks or six months, with what little they know I don't know how they can pick a specific time frame. More realistic it would seem, would be closing the springs until tests came back to see if closing the springs were actually necessary. I wondered about that, too. I guess they can always say, "false alarm!" after 30 days if they want. I'm curious, if this closing due to 'toxic' waste, is a fortuitous chance to save the city money considering the budget shortfall that are a recent and big problem. Since they opened Deep Eddy as replacement for BS swimmers, I doubt it. k For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/. For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.../consumer.html |
Barton Springs toxic
Odd about this whole thing, is how quickly the city acted to shut down
for ninety days on the basis of the Austin American Statesman news paper report. Why not two weeks or six months, with what little they know I don't know how they can pick a specific time frame. More realistic it would seem, would be closing the springs until tests came back to see if closing the springs were actually necessary. Obviously the big fear on the City's part would be litigation. It always kills me listening to talk radio discussing payments the city makes to settle suits, instead of simply saying how much are you and I going to fork over in each case. I am curious, and I have no evidence on this, I'm just speculating but I'm curious, if this closing due to 'toxic' waste, is a fortuitous chance to save the city money considering the budget shortfall that are a recent and big problem. I would also certainly like to know what the city parks department has been using to fertilize the grass on the hill and the area above. There has been a lot of discussion about the toxicity of Ironite, being the tailings from an abamdoned silver mine in Humbolt Arizona but it is not the only commercially available fertilizer that uses industrial toxic waste 'recycled' as fertilizer. ( Anyone interested in this can read 'Fateful Harvest' by journalist Duff Wilson. ) take care' Steve Coyle www.austingardencenter.com |
Barton Springs toxic
On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:36:30 -0600, "cat daddy"
wrote: I am just sick over this. For the past five Summers, and especially the last two, my Labrador Caitlin and I have gone swimming almost every day at the spillway. I *trusted* the city's tests of the water quality and believed it to be the safest water around. *******s........... Well, now, they do still say the water is still relatively clean. They are concerned about sediment and algae that might be stirred up and swallowed, though. the comment about Futrell, I can't blame her if she's feeling defensive. Clearly, this problem existed long before she took the City's reins and yet she's getting the brunt of the flak over it. Most frightening to me is the thought of what must be done to remove these contaminants--digging up the whole hillside seems the only way, and what a blow that would be to the plant life (and resident critters) there. Maybe when we get the full story, we'll be able to snicker at our overreaction (crossing fingers). k For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/. For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.../consumer.html |
Barton Springs toxic
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:36:16 GMT, animaux
wrote: My guess would be the arsenic is from the over use of Ironite, which has high amounts of arsenic. Many of these metals and pollutants are in commercial fertilizers as fillers. The fillers are not regulated and they can put anything in that bag and it doesn't have to be listed because it's inert. Some of that gets scary as it would be a good way to get rid of stuff not easy to throw away otherwise. I have done some work on waste glass and even that can be a possible source of arsenic and other toxic metals as the broken glass corrodes in the soil. So it will be an interesting investigation finding out where these pollutants are coming from. Just a simple scan for the RCRA metals done by a certified lab costs $400 to $500 so I do not think many of us are going to be able to help in determining this. Rusty Mase |
Barton Springs toxic
I think anyone who did this kind of research would want to find, mainly,
people who could produce evidence of swimming regularly -- perhaps daily -- in Barton Springs -- over a long period of time. Then they would want controls -- people who swam there occasionally and people who had never swam there. If the contaminants were taken in by humans, there should be increased levels of them in the swimmers in proportion to how often they swam at Barton Springs. Of course, then there would be the questions of whether or not higher levels actually caused problems and how high they had to be to cause problems. You are no doubt right about why the City would never want this to happen. But I wouldn't be surprised to see some personal injury lawyer or lawyers advertising for swimmers. gary austin "Joe D" wrote in message ... This would seem like a sensible thing to do, but the city will never do it because the results could then be used as evidence in a class-action lawsuit. "Have you ever gone swimming in Barton Springs at any time in the last 20 years? Call this number NOW!" Joe D |
Barton Springs toxic
For the past five Summers, and especially the last two, my Labrador
Caitlin and I have gone swimming almost every day at the spillway. I *trusted* the city's tests of the water quality and believed it to be the safest water around. *******s........... Honestly, if you and your dog are going swimming in the *SPILLWAY* you have far bigger concerns. Namely, fecal matter. Last summer, I conducted a poll, interviewing a day's worth of dogs at the Barton Springs Spillway. I found that, after their most recent bowel movement, not a single one of them had wiped their ass before getting in the water. Interestingly, my poll also found that many of these dogs shared a common interest: rolling in each others shit. (Or any animal's shit that they might happen upon...) And to make matters worse, not a one of them showers on a regular basis. Yes, they have shit ALL OVER themselves when they get in the water. (By they way, some of the more roguish dogs tend to enjoy occassionally shitting right there in the water, too.) Anyway, my whole extensive study can be summarized in 2 words: fecal matter. The spillway is full of it. I had a friend whose dog got giardia after one visit. (no kidding) Which is astounding, considering that this dog absolutely loves to drink from the toilet. Perhaps the bigger "*******s" are those who suggested to you that the spillway is as safe as the pool. I mean, if you're drinking your water out of the toilet, does it really matter if your water lines carry Evian or tap water? As Skinhead O'Connor said, "Fight the real enemy!" |
Barton Springs toxic
Xref: 127.0.0.1 austin.gardening:20189
There is always arsenic and atrazine in water. How many people have died or become sick? Then it can't be "that" toxic. Settle down and take a breather. "cat daddy" wrote in message ... "animaux" wrote in message ... On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:36:30 -0600, "cat daddy" wrote: I am just sick over this. For the past five Summers, and especially the last two, my Labrador Caitlin and I have gone swimming almost every day at the spillway. I *trusted* the city's tests of the water quality and believed it to be the safest water around. *******s........... Yeah, well, they closed the pool, but they are still insisting this is nothing to be twisted about. Ya know why? Because they lose and stand to lose a lot of revenue from this. People come from all over the world to Austin to swim in Barton Springs Pool. They still somehow feel that, even though higher levels of toxins were found in and near spillways into the Spring, sometimes as high and higher than toxic waste dumps...hmmmm, money, money, money, money.....MONEY. Or, politics, damage control, and liability. Toby looked a little over defensive in the press conference. If it turns out not to be a 100+ year old problem, the current and recent parties to blame will have bought time to bail out of the responsibility.... |
Barton Springs toxic
On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:38:54 GMT, animaux
wrote: I don't want ANY toxic matter going into my body. Any amount is dangerous and can cause cancers. You can settle down and take a breather, I prefer to be diligent. Good luck with that . . . what sort of breathing apparatus are you using, BTW? K For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/. For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.../consumer.html |
Barton Springs toxic
IMHO, that overly-defensive attitude that "any amount is dangerous and can
cause cancers" is as liable to make one MORE susceptible to cancers as it is to prevent any. All pain and disease is a mysterious combination of body AND mind. It does not pay to give the omni-present "toxic matter" any more power than it might have had without our help. gary "Babberney" wrote in message news:0DA3910A7AF3F659.21A247A764BC420B.65379BAC8E9 ... On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:38:54 GMT, animaux wrote: I don't want ANY toxic matter going into my body. Any amount is dangerous and can cause cancers. You can settle down and take a breather, I prefer to be diligent. Good luck with that . . . what sort of breathing apparatus are you using, BTW? K For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/. For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.../consumer.html |
Barton Springs toxic
In article 0DA3910A7AF3F659.21A247A764BC420B.65379BAC8E9E2AD , (Babberney) wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:38:54 GMT, animaux wrote: I don't want ANY toxic matter going into my body. Any amount is dangerous and can cause cancers. You can settle down and take a breather, I prefer to be diligent. Good luck with that . . . what sort of breathing apparatus are you using, BTW? Where's that article detailing good old H2O as one of the most dangerous substances known to man when you need it? :) sh |
Barton Springs toxic
Xref: 127.0.0.1 austin.gardening:20281
On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:41:08 GMT, c (Scott Harper) wrote: In article 0DA3910A7AF3F659.21A247A764BC420B.65379BAC8E9E2AD , (Babberney) wrote: On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:38:54 GMT, animaux wrote: I don't want ANY toxic matter going into my body. Any amount is dangerous and can cause cancers. You can settle down and take a breather, I prefer to be diligent. Good luck with that . . . what sort of breathing apparatus are you using, BTW? Where's that article detailing good old H2O as one of the most dangerous substances known to man when you need it? :) Or for lawn chem users, the study of golf course superintendents dying at 2-3 times the national rate of brain and prostate cancer, and non-Hodgkins lymphoma? |
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