There is always arsenic and atrazine in water.
How many people have died or become sick? Then it can't be "that" toxic.
Settle down and take a breather.


"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

"animaux" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:36:30 -0600, "cat daddy"
wrote:


I am just sick over this. For the past five Summers, and especially
the
last two, my Labrador Caitlin and I have gone swimming almost every day
at
the spillway. I *trusted* the city's tests of the water quality and
believed
it to be the safest water around. *******s...........


Yeah, well, they closed the pool, but they are still insisting this is
nothing
to be twisted about. Ya know why? Because they lose and stand to lose
a
lot of
revenue from this. People come from all over the world to Austin to
swim
in
Barton Springs Pool. They still somehow feel that, even though higher
levels of
toxins were found in and near spillways into the Spring, sometimes as
high
and
higher than toxic waste dumps...hmmmm, money, money, money,
money.....MONEY.

Or, politics, damage control, and liability. Toby looked a little over
defensive in the press conference. If it turns out not to be a 100+ year
old
problem, the current and recent parties to blame will have bought time to
bail out of the responsibility....

I don't want ANY toxic matter going into my body. Any amount is dangerous and
can cause cancers. You can settle down and take a breather, I prefer to be
diligent.

Are you using a Green Peace address because you are associated with Green Peace,
or is it just another of those fake email addresses?


On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 01:52:35 GMT, "Gloria Donatello"
wrote:

There is always arsenic and atrazine in water.
How many people have died or become sick? Then it can't be "that" toxic.
Settle down and take a breather.


"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

"animaux" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:36:30 -0600, "cat daddy"
wrote:


I am just sick over this. For the past five Summers, and especially
the
last two, my Labrador Caitlin and I have gone swimming almost every day
at
the spillway. I *trusted* the city's tests of the water quality and
believed
it to be the safest water around. *******s...........


Yeah, well, they closed the pool, but they are still insisting this is
nothing
to be twisted about. Ya know why? Because they lose and stand to lose
a
lot of
revenue from this. People come from all over the world to Austin to
swim
in
Barton Springs Pool. They still somehow feel that, even though higher
levels of
toxins were found in and near spillways into the Spring, sometimes as
high
and
higher than toxic waste dumps...hmmmm, money, money, money,
money.....MONEY.

Or, politics, damage control, and liability. Toby looked a little over
defensive in the press conference. If it turns out not to be a 100+ year
old
problem, the current and recent parties to blame will have bought time to
bail out of the responsibility....

On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:38:54 GMT, animaux
wrote:

I don't want ANY toxic matter going into my body. Any amount is dangerous and
can cause cancers. You can settle down and take a breather, I prefer to be
diligent.

Good luck with that . . . what sort of breathing apparatus are you
using, BTW?

K
For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.
For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.../consumer.html

IMHO, that overly-defensive attitude that "any amount is dangerous and can
cause cancers" is as liable to make one MORE susceptible to cancers as it is
to prevent any. All pain and disease is a mysterious combination of body
AND mind. It does not pay to give the omni-present "toxic matter" any more
power than it might have had without our help.
gary


"Babberney" wrote in message
news:0DA3910A7AF3F659.21A247A764BC420B.65379BAC8E9 ...
On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:38:54 GMT, animaux
wrote:

I don't want ANY toxic matter going into my body. Any amount is
dangerous and
can cause cancers. You can settle down and take a breather, I prefer to
be
diligent.

Good luck with that . . . what sort of breathing apparatus are you
using, BTW?

K
For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please
visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.
For consumer info about tree care, visit
http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.../consumer.html

On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:41:08 GMT, c (Scott
Harper) wrote:

In article 0DA3910A7AF3F659.21A247A764BC420B.65379BAC8E9E2AD , (Babberney) wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:38:54 GMT, animaux
wrote:

I don't want ANY toxic matter going into my body. Any amount is dangerous and
can cause cancers. You can settle down and take a breather, I prefer to be
diligent.

Good luck with that . . . what sort of breathing apparatus are you
using, BTW?

Where's that article detailing good old H2O as one of the most dangerous
substances known to man when you need it?

Or for lawn chem users, the study of golf course superintendents dying
at 2-3 times the national rate of brain and prostate cancer, and
non-Hodgkins lymphoma?

"animaux" wrote in message
...
http://www.austin360.com/aas/special...119barton.html

I urge anyone interested in the organic community read this letter. For
years
Barton Springs pool has been a natural moving body of water which is at
the
center of Austin in the city. Thousands of people come here just to swim
in
this natural pool from all over the place. Now it will be marked with
sighs
telling of the toxic levels of arsenic, atrazine, etc...and swim at your
own
risk.

It's amazing to me that Ironite is still on the market and it is now my
mission
to get that product off the market, as I was passionate about the
elimination of
Diazinon and Dursban.

Please, if you care about your environment, read this article.

I am just sick over this. For the past five Summers, and especially the
last two, my Labrador Caitlin and I have gone swimming almost every day at
the spillway. I *trusted* the city's tests of the water quality and believed
it to be the safest water around. *******s...........

On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:10:19 GMT, animaux
wrote:

Yeah, well, they closed the pool, but they are still insisting this is nothing
to be twisted about. Ya know why? Because they lose and stand to lose a lot of
revenue from this.

Well, they also used Barton Springs as a "club" over the years to beat
anyone they thought might possibly be a potential polluter. Mostly
they picked on peripheral sources for this. Such as my on-site waste
disposal system (septic tank - drain field) and numerous developers
west of MoPac/Loop 360 in general.

So I think as much as anything some local environmental activists are
very concerned that the "club" has been compromised and it may not be
an effective weapon, anymore.

The folks that may have disposed of coal gas wastes along Robert E.
Lee Rd. are long gone and dead now, and you cant beat them. The more
interesting aspect now becomes where are the metals they are finding
coming from? Same source, or something else?

Rusty Mase

"animaux" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:36:30 -0600, "cat daddy"
wrote:


I am just sick over this. For the past five Summers, and especially
the
last two, my Labrador Caitlin and I have gone swimming almost every day
at
the spillway. I *trusted* the city's tests of the water quality and
believed
it to be the safest water around. *******s...........


Yeah, well, they closed the pool, but they are still insisting this is
nothing
to be twisted about. Ya know why? Because they lose and stand to lose a
lot of
revenue from this. People come from all over the world to Austin to swim
in
Barton Springs Pool. They still somehow feel that, even though higher
levels of
toxins were found in and near spillways into the Spring, sometimes as high
and
higher than toxic waste dumps...hmmmm, money, money, money,
money.....MONEY.

Or, politics, damage control, and liability. Toby looked a little over
defensive in the press conference. If it turns out not to be a 100+ year old
problem, the current and recent parties to blame will have bought time to
bail out of the responsibility....

On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:36:16 GMT, animaux
wrote:

My guess would be the arsenic is from the over use of Ironite, which has high
amounts of arsenic. Many of these metals and pollutants are in commercial
fertilizers as fillers. The fillers are not regulated and they can put anything
in that bag and it doesn't have to be listed because it's inert.

Some of that gets scary as it would be a good way to get rid of stuff
not easy to throw away otherwise. I have done some work on waste
glass and even that can be a possible source of arsenic and other
toxic metals as the broken glass corrodes in the soil.

So it will be an interesting investigation finding out where these
pollutants are coming from. Just a simple scan for the RCRA metals
done by a certified lab costs $400 to $500 so I do not think many of
us are going to be able to help in determining this.

Rusty Mase

On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:36:30 -0600, "cat daddy"
wrote:


I am just sick over this. For the past five Summers, and especially the
last two, my Labrador Caitlin and I have gone swimming almost every day at
the spillway. I *trusted* the city's tests of the water quality and believed
it to be the safest water around. *******s...........

Well, now, they do still say the water is still relatively clean.
They are concerned about sediment and algae that might be stirred up
and swallowed, though.

the comment about Futrell, I can't blame her if she's feeling
defensive. Clearly, this problem existed long before she took the
City's reins and yet she's getting the brunt of the flak over it.

Most frightening to me is the thought of what must be done to remove
these contaminants--digging up the whole hillside seems the only way,
and what a blow that would be to the plant life (and resident
critters) there. Maybe when we get the full story, we'll be able to
snicker at our overreaction (crossing fingers).

k
For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.
For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.../consumer.html

Odd about this whole thing, is how quickly the city acted to shut down
for ninety days on the basis of the Austin American Statesman news
paper report. Why not two weeks or six months, with what little they
know I don't know how they can pick a specific time frame. More
realistic it would seem, would be closing the springs until tests came
back to see if closing the springs were actually necessary.
Obviously the big fear on the City's part would be litigation. It
always kills me listening to talk radio discussing payments the city
makes to settle suits, instead of simply saying how much are you and I
going to fork over in each case.
I am curious, and I have no evidence on this, I'm just
speculating but I'm curious, if this closing due to 'toxic' waste, is
a fortuitous chance to save the city money considering the budget
shortfall that are a recent and big problem.

I would also certainly like to know what the city parks department
has been using to fertilize the grass on the hill and the area above.
There has been a lot of discussion about the toxicity of Ironite,
being the tailings from an abamdoned silver mine in Humbolt Arizona
but it is not the only commercially available fertilizer that uses
industrial toxic waste 'recycled' as fertilizer. ( Anyone interested
in this can read 'Fateful Harvest' by journalist Duff Wilson. )

take care'
Steve Coyle
www.austingardencenter.com

"Babberney" wrote in message
news:03DE78B448A49AC3.C9F897D8A64A17B8.DDB2D8EA2FB ...
On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:36:30 -0600, "cat daddy"
wrote:


I am just sick over this. For the past five Summers, and especially
the
last two, my Labrador Caitlin and I have gone swimming almost every day
at
the spillway. I *trusted* the city's tests of the water quality and
believed
it to be the safest water around. *******s...........

Well, now, they do still say the water is still relatively clean.
They are concerned about sediment and algae that might be stirred up
and swallowed, though.

the comment about Futrell, I can't blame her if she's feeling
defensive. Clearly, this problem existed long before she took the
City's reins and yet she's getting the brunt of the flak over it.

But, she was an assistant city manager for quite some time. The 90-day
closure seems a little lengthy if the water is as safe as she says.

Most frightening to me is the thought of what must be done to remove
these contaminants--digging up the whole hillside seems the only way,
and what a blow that would be to the plant life (and resident
critters) there. Maybe when we get the full story, we'll be able to
snicker at our overreaction (crossing fingers).

I hope it's an over-reaction. I bought into the "drinking water" quality
that they reported so often......... If they dig out the hill, I bet even
more contaminants will be released into the Springs.

On 20 Jan 2003 12:19:42 -0800, (Steve Coyle)
wrote:

Odd about this whole thing, is how quickly the city acted to shut down
for ninety days on the basis of the Austin American Statesman news
paper report. Why not two weeks or six months, with what little they
know I don't know how they can pick a specific time frame. More
realistic it would seem, would be closing the springs until tests came
back to see if closing the springs were actually necessary.

I wondered about that, too. I guess they can always say, "false
alarm!" after 30 days if they want.
I'm curious, if this closing due to 'toxic' waste, is
a fortuitous chance to save the city money considering the budget
shortfall that are a recent and big problem.
Since they opened Deep Eddy as replacement for BS swimmers, I doubt
it.

k
For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.
For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.../consumer.html

On 20 Jan 2003 12:19:42 -0800, (Steve Coyle)
wrote:

Odd about this whole thing, is how quickly the city acted to shut down
for ninety days on the basis of the Austin American Statesman news
paper report. Why not two weeks or six months, with what little they
know I don't know how they can pick a specific time frame. More
realistic it would seem, would be closing the springs until tests came
back to see if closing the springs were actually necessary.
Obviously the big fear on the City's part would be litigation. It
always kills me listening to talk radio discussing payments the city
makes to settle suits, instead of simply saying how much are you and I
going to fork over in each case.
I am curious, and I have no evidence on this, I'm just
speculating but I'm curious, if this closing due to 'toxic' waste, is
a fortuitous chance to save the city money considering the budget
shortfall that are a recent and big problem.

I would also certainly like to know what the city parks department
has been using to fertilize the grass on the hill and the area above.
There has been a lot of discussion about the toxicity of Ironite,
being the tailings from an abamdoned silver mine in Humbolt Arizona
but it is not the only commercially available fertilizer that uses
industrial toxic waste 'recycled' as fertilizer. ( Anyone interested
in this can read 'Fateful Harvest' by journalist Duff Wilson. )

take care'
Steve Coyle
www.austingardencenter.com

My reading of the AAS article was that the city, having been shown the
data obtained by the AAS, immediately ordered their own tests (on or
about 10 Jan, as I recall) and then acted when their tests strongly
confirmed the AAS specimens. So from my reading, they did not act
only on the information provided by the AAS. On the other hand, they
apparently ignored about a decades worth of their own data that
strongly suggested something was amiss.

Are there not quite a few people who swim in that pool every day, day in and
day out, even all through the winter -- and have done so for many, many
years? I'll bet there are some who have been swimming there for several
decades, from childhood.

Seems to me that the City could advertise for these people, try to get them
to volunteer and/or pay them, and then do some blood tests (or whatever is
appropriate) to see if their bodies have higher levels of these toxic
chemicals.

That would not produce a final answer, of course, and the results would not
necessarily apply to other animals who also use the water, but it sure would
go a long way to convince people one way or the other that the water was or
was not dangerous to them.

Of course, there would be a faction that would not want this kind of
evidence to become known, unless they knew beforehand that the results would
fall their way.

gary
austin



B.Server wrote in message
...
On 20 Jan 2003 12:19:42 -0800, (Steve Coyle)
wrote:

Odd about this whole thing, is how quickly the city acted to shut down
for ninety days on the basis of the Austin American Statesman news
paper report. Why not two weeks or six months, with what little they
know I don't know how they can pick a specific time frame. More
realistic it would seem, would be closing the springs until tests came
back to see if closing the springs were actually necessary.
Obviously the big fear on the City's part would be litigation. It
always kills me listening to talk radio discussing payments the city
makes to settle suits, instead of simply saying how much are you and I
going to fork over in each case.
I am curious, and I have no evidence on this, I'm just
speculating but I'm curious, if this closing due to 'toxic' waste, is
a fortuitous chance to save the city money considering the budget
shortfall that are a recent and big problem.

I would also certainly like to know what the city parks department
has been using to fertilize the grass on the hill and the area above.
There has been a lot of discussion about the toxicity of Ironite,
being the tailings from an abamdoned silver mine in Humbolt Arizona
but it is not the only commercially available fertilizer that uses
industrial toxic waste 'recycled' as fertilizer. ( Anyone interested
in this can read 'Fateful Harvest' by journalist Duff Wilson. )

take care'
Steve Coyle
www.austingardencenter.com

My reading of the AAS article was that the city, having been shown the
data obtained by the AAS, immediately ordered their own tests (on or
about 10 Jan, as I recall) and then acted when their tests strongly
confirmed the AAS specimens. So from my reading, they did not act
only on the information provided by the AAS. On the other hand, they
apparently ignored about a decades worth of their own data that
strongly suggested something was amiss.