Laurel Tree - or Bay ?
On with my garden inventory - after close inspection I find that I have a
Laurel tree - a whopper. Google tells me that it is a great source of Bay leaves (which sounds a bit silly - Laurel trees have bay leaves - but I concluded that Bay was probably a Laurel subspecies. My inital irritation at having spent fortunes on bay leaves for my stews and curries in the past, subsided when I inpected the leaves on the tree and found they were far bigger and fatter - and maybe even greener than the ones I use for cooking. Is this something to do with the age of the tree (it is at least 12 years old, and probably much older) - do I need to take a cutting and grow a smaller bush to be able to harvest the smaller finer leaves ? - Or is my Bay tree really just a laurel. My neighbour tells me she has used the leaves for cooking - from a small sapling that grew on her side of the fence. My wife said that she would probably be wearing the leaves next week (she gets confused between Laurel which you can wear as a crown and Fig leaves - which serve a very different purpose) - but again I digress .... :-) The real reason I got so interested in the Laurel is that my two Honeysuckles at the top end of the garden are looking very very sad - the leaves are all curly and dusty and the flowers wilted - watering has not helped - and one of them is almost devoid of leaves. They are shaded by the Laurel - and it has grown right over the top of them this year - I am tempted to lop a few branches off it anyway - but could this have caused it ? My local garden cente chap said it was worth giving them a dose of Bonemeal (with blood !!) - so I have done that. I also gave them a good sprinkling with some feed - mainly Nitrogen - but 20ml to 2 gallons of water seems very mean ? Am I on the right track here ? As ever your help is very much appreciated - please ? |
Lol wrote:
On with my garden inventory - after close inspection I find that I have a Laurel tree - a whopper. Google tells me that it is a great source of Bay leaves (which sounds a bit silly - Laurel trees have bay leaves - but I concluded that Bay was probably a Laurel subspecies. My inital irritation at having spent fortunes on bay leaves for my stews and curries in the past, subsided when I inpected the leaves on the tree and found they were far bigger and fatter - and maybe even greener than the ones I use for cooking. Is this something to do with the age of the tree (it is at least 12 years old, and probably much older) - do I need to take a cutting and grow a smaller bush to be able to harvest the smaller finer leaves ? - Or is my Bay tree really just a laurel. [...] It's a name problem. The original name for bay was laurel (as in victors' laurel wreaths); but the Victorians called the unrelated _Prunus laurocerasus_ "cherry laurel" because of its berries, and hence just "laurel". It's slightly poisonous, and the leaves smell unpleasant to me when crushed. What you describe sounds like the undesirable one: rather big shiny leaves, a few shades lighter in colour than bay leaves, a rather mound-forming shape. Older cookery books can be misleading by using "laurel" for "bay"; the original 1861 Mrs Beeton is, in my opinion, plain wrong. The 1906 edition is clearer, and says the "cherry-laurel" is sometimes used with discretion to give an almond-like flavour -- I don't think I ever would, though. -- Mike. |
The message
from "Mike Lyle" contains these words: Older cookery books can be misleading by using "laurel" for "bay"; the original 1861 Mrs Beeton is, in my opinion, plain wrong. The 1906 edition is clearer, and says the "cherry-laurel" is sometimes used with discretion to give an almond-like flavour -- I don't think I ever would, though. I think that "almond flavour" is the cyanide content of the laurel leaves. Butterfly collectors used to put their victim in a jar with laurel leaves for the cyanide gas to kill them. Janet |
"Lol" wrote in message
... On with my garden inventory - after close inspection I find that I have a Laurel tree - a whopper. Google tells me that it is a great source of Bay leaves (which sounds a bit silly - Laurel trees have bay leaves - but I concluded that Bay was probably a Laurel subspecies. There are 3 'suspects' which are frequently called Laurel. Bay *is* a Laurel - Laurus nobilis, slightly crinkled edges to the leaf (though less obviously so if grown in shade) If you crush the leaves it smells like................Bay Thicker stiffer more glossy leaf than the next suspect. Portugese Laurel belongs to the cherry family - Proper name is Prunus lusitanica. It has a thinner duller leaf than bay, reddish twigs and at this time of the year will probably have little red 'cherries' on it. Common Laurel or 'Cherry Laurel' and its variants like the narrow leaved low growing variety 'Otto Luyken' often seen in supermarket carparks is *not* a Laurel but again is a Prunus - Prunus laurocerasus. Much bigger thicker brighter green leaves than the other 2 and if you crush them they smell of almonds. As a kid I went through a bug collecting phase and I used crushed laurel leaves in the killing bottle when collecting specimens. Look at http://www.evergreenhedging.co.uk/laurel.htm for good illustrations of P. lusitanica and P. laurocerasus. google should find you a picture of bay. -- Rod My real address is rodtheweedygardeneratmyweedyisp Just remove the weedy bits and transplant the appropriate symbol at. |
The message
from "Lol" contains these words: On with my garden inventory - after close inspection I find that I have a Laurel tree - a whopper. Google tells me that it is a great source of Bay leaves (which sounds a bit silly - Laurel trees have bay leaves - but I concluded that Bay was probably a Laurel subspecies. My inital irritation at having spent fortunes on bay leaves for my stews and curries in the past, subsided when I inpected the leaves on the tree and found they were far bigger and fatter - and maybe even greener than the ones I use for cooking. It sounds like you have laurel - you'd know from the smell of it if it were bay. Bay (surprisingly) smells of bay-leaves, and laurel a bit like bitter almonds, due to the prussic acid content. So, if you wish to avoid cyanide poisoning, don't use laurel as a flavouring... Is this something to do with the age of the tree (it is at least 12 years old, and probably much older) - do I need to take a cutting and grow a smaller bush to be able to harvest the smaller finer leaves ? - Or is my Bay tree really just a laurel. No. The leaves of a year-old bay are similar in size to a mature tree. My neighbour tells me she has used the leaves for cooking - from a small sapling that grew on her side of the fence. My wife said that she would probably be wearing the leaves next week (she gets confused between Laurel which you can wear as a crown and Fig leaves - which serve a very different purpose) - but again I digress .... :-) Ah, the 'laurels' were in fact, bay. Figleaves as you say, are not usually worn in pubic by emperors and victors... The real reason I got so interested in the Laurel is that my two Honeysuckles at the top end of the garden are looking very very sad - the leaves are all curly and dusty and the flowers wilted - watering has not helped - and one of them is almost devoid of leaves. They are shaded by the Laurel - and it has grown right over the top of them this year - I am tempted to lop a few branches off it anyway - but could this have caused it ? I wouldn't have thought so. It's much more likely that the laurel has impoverished and dried the soil. My local garden cente chap said it was worth giving them a dose of Bonemeal (with blood !!) - so I have done that. I also gave them a good sprinkling with some feed - mainly Nitrogen - but 20ml to 2 gallons of water seems very mean ? Am I on the right track here ? No. 10 ml per gallon is about right. The blood provides some too, and the bonemeal releases phosphates and other nutrients over a number of years. -- Rusty Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
In article ,
Lol wrote: My neighbour tells me she has used the leaves for cooking - from a small sapling that grew on her side of the fence. My wife said that she would probably be wearing the leaves next week (she gets confused between Laurel which you can wear as a crown and Fig leaves - which serve a very different purpose) - but again I digress .... :-) A suitable aide-memoire is that you wear fig leaves beforehand and laurel afterwards - if you deserve the latter. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:31:01 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
and laurel a bit like bitter almonds, due to the prussic acid content. So, if you wish to avoid cyanide poisoning, don't use laurel as a flavouring... When I used laurel leaves to kill bugs a long time ago in my youth (when it was still ok to collect birds eggs as well,) I assumed that it was cyanide in the leaves wot done it. But you said the leaves contained prussic acid, which confused me ! However after a short google this page proved enlightening http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/range/g775.htm "prussic acid--also called hydrocyanic acid, hydrogen cyanide, or cyanide" Psst, dont tell elfinsfty, but it goes on to say" ,,,, or cyanide--can be fatal. " If elfinsaftey get a whiff of that they'll be banning Laurel plantings along with dihydrogen monoxide :( rant It is my contention that I know more about the countryside, birds in particular, and 'nature' in general because I (we) were able to go about and play and discover (for example that sand martin nests were "----" that far back from the bank in tunnels and etc&etc similar interesting things) We have a nice collection of pressed wild flowers and vegetation (my sisters, mine and our parents collections), that was a long time ago as was a very nice collection of dried pressed seaweeds from grandfather and greatgrandfather from all round the uk coastline, but who does(/is allowed to do) that sort of thing now ? No doubt it might ( as most of it is dated and commented) give an insight to climate trends (not mentioning the global warming word !) but no one is going to get it because my heirs and succesors are not permitted to do that sort of thing anymore. eg. :- My daughter was not able/allowed/etc to do what we did so has less interest in those things but more in text messaging and nightclubbing and things that she can/is permitted to do :-(( /rant PS Laurel leaves crushed, in quantity and stuffed into every available orifice of mole (warrens?) tunnels (under ones treasured lettuce plants for example) does no good at all, they just dig new tunnels underneath the carrots :( :-(((( grrrr |
In article ,
WaltA wrote: When I used laurel leaves to kill bugs a long time ago in my youth (when it was still ok to collect birds eggs as well,) I assumed that it was cyanide in the leaves wot done it. Yup :-) But you said the leaves contained prussic acid, which confused me ! However after a short google this page proved enlightening http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/range/g775.htm "prussic acid--also called hydrocyanic acid, hydrogen cyanide, or cyanide" Or Scheele's acid, for those that are truly stuck in a time warp. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Nick Maclaren wrote:
Or Scheele's acid, for those that are truly stuck in a time warp. Gosh, you must be old to remember that ! ;-)) I googled "Scheele's acid" and the first find gave me :- "Taylor, Lond. Med. Gaz., 1845, p. 103, a man took 45 drops of Scheele's acid;" |
The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words: Or Scheele's acid, for those that are truly stuck in a time warp. /HCN/ When I'm making up some browning fluid for old gun parts I delight in asking for bluestone and sal ammoniac, and I have been known to buy oleum, spirits of salt and spirits of nitre. Is that warped enough for you? -- Rusty Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:31:01 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote: It sounds like you have laurel - you'd know from the smell of it if it were bay. Bay (surprisingly) smells of bay-leaves, and laurel a bit like bitter almonds, due to the prussic acid content. So, if you wish to avoid cyanide poisoning, don't use laurel as a flavouring... Not nearly enough cyanide to be dangerous. A couple of elderly spinsters who lived near us when I was a child always used laurel leaves to give an almond flavour to their rice puddings. -- Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net |
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 16:27:12 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
Nice rant. Is that all ! I had prepared my flame-proof undergarments and chainmail overcoat expecting flames&flack from the PC brigade :) Indeed: you need a small mine with a trembler trigger... I'd settle for a small yours with some plut*&%um and a proximity detector :( I have toyed with the idea of a petrol vapour (a lá carburettor principle) blower and a remote blue touchpaper device ! Mind you, thinking of oleum in your other post, I have in the past, a long time ago in my youth,,, played with a nitrating mixture of fuming nitric and conc. sulphuric involving tol%^ne. I wont mention the hoped-for product cos it'll set the "watchers" into a tizzy ! ( if they are not already !) |
The message
from Chris Hogg contains these words: On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:31:01 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote: It sounds like you have laurel - you'd know from the smell of it if it were bay. Bay (surprisingly) smells of bay-leaves, and laurel a bit like bitter almonds, due to the prussic acid content. So, if you wish to avoid cyanide poisoning, don't use laurel as a flavouring... Not nearly enough cyanide to be dangerous. A couple of elderly spinsters who lived near us when I was a child always used laurel leaves to give an almond flavour to their rice puddings. Are you sure they weren't widows? Actually, IIRC, HCN is broken down or driven off in cooking. -- Rusty Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
The message
from (WaltA) contains these words: On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 16:27:12 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote: Nice rant. Is that all ! I had prepared my flame-proof undergarments and chainmail overcoat expecting flames&flack from the PC brigade :) Indeed: you need a small mine with a trembler trigger... I'd settle for a small yours with some plut*&%um and a proximity detector :( I have toyed with the idea of a petrol vapour (a lá carburettor principle) blower and a remote blue touchpaper device ! Mind you, thinking of oleum in your other post, I have in the past, a long time ago in my youth,,, played with a nitrating mixture of fuming nitric and conc. sulphuric involving tol%^ne. I wont mention the hoped-for product cos it'll set the "watchers" into a tizzy ! ( if they are not already !) Ah. I used to do that regularly with cotton-wool - to see - well, not exactly, but thereabouts - why, refer to http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/gnu.htm I also tried it with a certain trihydric alcohol otherwise used in cake icing, suppositories and to adulterate cheap wines to give them body. Once... -- Rusty Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk |
In article ,
WaltA wrote: Mind you, thinking of oleum in your other post, I have in the past, a long time ago in my youth,,, played with a nitrating mixture of fuming nitric and conc. sulphuric involving tol%^ne. I wont mention the hoped-for product cos it'll set the "watchers" into a tizzy ! ( if they are not already !) We are. Best regards, A. Spook (pp the Gnome Secretary). |
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 19:49:15 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote: The message from Chris Hogg contains these words: On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:31:01 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote: It sounds like you have laurel - you'd know from the smell of it if it were bay. Bay (surprisingly) smells of bay-leaves, and laurel a bit like bitter almonds, due to the prussic acid content. So, if you wish to avoid cyanide poisoning, don't use laurel as a flavouring... Not nearly enough cyanide to be dangerous. A couple of elderly spinsters who lived near us when I was a child always used laurel leaves to give an almond flavour to their rice puddings. Are you sure they weren't widows? Actually, IIRC, HCN is broken down or driven off in cooking. Not all of it, as there wouldn't be any flavour left. Do you eat almonds? -- Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net |
Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/gnu.htm We used similar stuff for giving fish a bit of a fright as well :) An initial interest in fireworks led to an interest in colouring them, which led to an interest in spectroscopy which led to an interest in the electron structure of the shells (no not that kind of shell Rusty ! ) of atoms which led all the way to Schrodinger and God playing dice (Einstein - on quantum mechanics). Kids dont have that kind of intro to science and engineering any more,,, ooops, I think I just ranted again :) I also tried it with a certain trihydric alcohol otherwise used in cake icing, suppositories and to adulterate cheap wines to give them body. Crumbs! I never even contemplated doing that, my hands were never steady enough :-)) Once... I would have thought that once was one more than was wise ! |
Nick wrote:
(pp the Gnome Secretary). Oh ! Are they running Echelon on Linux now :) |
The message
from (WaltA) contains these words: I also tried it with a certain trihydric alcohol otherwise used in cake icing, suppositories and to adulterate cheap wines to give them body. Crumbs! I never even contemplated doing that, my hands were never steady enough :-)) Once... I would have thought that once was one more than was wise ! It was done with the help of a pair of fast feet (I was about fourteen or fifteen) and thereafter by remote control. 'Thereafter' isn't a bad word, under the circumstances. -- Rusty Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
|
(pp the Gnome Secretary). Oh ! Are they running Echelon on Linux now :) They Grub around everywhere. Nah, they just a Lilo to layabout on |
|
The message
from (WaltA) contains these words: (pp the Gnome Secretary). Oh ! Are they running Echelon on Linux now :) They Grub around everywhere. Nah, they just a Lilo to layabout on I just Gnu you were going to say that. -- Rusty Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
The message
from (WaltA) contains these words: On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 00:20:33 GMT, (WaltA) wrote: (pp the Gnome Secretary). Oh ! Are they running Echelon on Linux now :) They Grub around everywhere. Nah, they just a Lilo to layabout on oops, or even - just usr Lilo to be layabouts on. Or even 'use'? -- Rusty Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
just usr Lilo to be layabouts on. Or even 'use'? No, I meant usr ( as in usr/bin etc standard Linux directory structure) and I used it as rhyming substitute for "use a" Just look what we've done to LOL's thread ! I think we ought to get our coats, and perhaps our RedHats, and leave quietly :) |
On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 10:19:03 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote: The message from (WaltA) contains these words: (pp the Gnome Secretary). Oh ! Are they running Echelon on Linux now :) They Grub around everywhere. Nah, they just a Lilo to layabout on I just Gnu you were going to say that. I think we need to take a break (^C) and brew some Java Beans, perhaps even accompanied by a small side salad dressed with some Open Sauce oooh, I'm struggling :) but if you Gnu that then oK DEar, you Gnu I would get back to a GUI and say Mornington Crescent ! QED :) Or perhaps even Richmond, Virginia, if you'd Rather, Dan? :) btw, hands up all who googled Echelon ?? |
|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:52 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
GardenBanter