Strangely, our new allotment has soil with a pH of approx 5.5 (and a
decidedly reddish tint). Previous allotments have been around neutral as is
our soil at home.
Is there anything I can use to bring the pH up to around neutral and that
has a buffering effect to keep it there. I know all about lime but that's
only a temporary measure.
Could grow blueberries in bulk!

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
Strangely, our new allotment has soil with a pH of approx 5.5 (and a
decidedly reddish tint). Previous allotments have been around neutral as
is our soil at home.
Is there anything I can use to bring the pH up to around neutral and that
has a buffering effect to keep it there. I know all about lime but that's
only a temporary measure.
Could grow blueberries in bulk!

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Is spent mushroom compost available locally - it's supposed to be good -
organic material and tends towards alkali.
Chris S

In article ,
Bob Hobden wrote:
Strangely, our new allotment has soil with a pH of approx 5.5 (and a
decidedly reddish tint). Previous allotments have been around neutral as is
our soil at home.
Is there anything I can use to bring the pH up to around neutral and that
has a buffering effect to keep it there. I know all about lime but that's
only a temporary measure.
Could grow blueberries in bulk!

Lime is not very mobile in the soil, so a serious treatment would
last for a decade or so.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote
Bob Hobden wrote:
Strangely, our new allotment has soil with a pH of approx 5.5 (and a
decidedly reddish tint). Previous allotments have been around neutral as
is
our soil at home.
Is there anything I can use to bring the pH up to around neutral and that
has a buffering effect to keep it there. I know all about lime but that's
only a temporary measure.
Could grow blueberries in bulk!

Lime is not very mobile in the soil, so a serious treatment would
last for a decade or so.


Can't believe that there is so much difference in the soil in less than 2
miles and all within the Thames floodplain.

Talking to another plot holder down there he said he put 5 cwt of lime on
his plot to bring it up to pH7.5 just to grow his brassicas (clubroot is a
problem). That's an awful lot of lime, but then I haven't even started
putting on manure yet which will probably lower the pH even more if that's
possible.

Mushroom compost is alkaline, and there is a mushroom farm locally that
advertise on our site, but I don't think it would make much difference to
this pH, it's so acidic. If it's not too expensive I will get a few loads
anyway, the soil needs some organic matter although it's full of worms which
I take as a good sign.

First job then is to buy a hand held pH meter as it's going to be an ongoing
problem.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

In article ,
Bob Hobden wrote:


Can't believe that there is so much difference in the soil in less than 2
miles and all within the Thames floodplain.

Your mind needs more exercise. Soil often varies in much shorter
distances than that - ESPECIALLY in such areas (e.g. here). What
happens is that an old river deposits some sand/silt/gravel/clay
or erodes some peat, and the next episode fills in with something
else.

Talking to another plot holder down there he said he put 5 cwt of lime on
his plot to bring it up to pH7.5 just to grow his brassicas (clubroot is a
problem). That's an awful lot of lime, but then I haven't even started
putting on manure yet which will probably lower the pH even more if that's
possible.

Heck, that's not even a trailer load. The stuff is dirt cheap,
the south of England being underlain by thick beds of it.

Mushroom compost is alkaline, and there is a mushroom farm locally that
advertise on our site, but I don't think it would make much difference to
this pH, it's so acidic. If it's not too expensive I will get a few loads
anyway, the soil needs some organic matter although it's full of worms which
I take as a good sign.

That's because they add lime to it.

First job then is to buy a hand held pH meter as it's going to be an ongoing
problem.

Well, maybe. I wouldn't.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bob Hobden wrote:


Can't believe that there is so much difference in the soil in less than 2
miles and all within the Thames floodplain.

Your mind needs more exercise. Soil often varies in much shorter
distances than that - ESPECIALLY in such areas (e.g. here). What
happens is that an old river deposits some sand/silt/gravel/clay
or erodes some peat, and the next episode fills in with something
else.

Talking to another plot holder down there he said he put 5 cwt of lime on
his plot to bring it up to pH7.5 just to grow his brassicas (clubroot is
a
problem). That's an awful lot of lime, but then I haven't even started
putting on manure yet which will probably lower the pH even more if
that's
possible.

Heck, that's not even a trailer load. The stuff is dirt cheap,
the south of England being underlain by thick beds of it.

Mushroom compost is alkaline, and there is a mushroom farm locally that
advertise on our site, but I don't think it would make much difference to
this pH, it's so acidic. If it's not too expensive I will get a few loads
anyway, the soil needs some organic matter although it's full of worms
which
I take as a good sign.

That's because they add lime to it.

First job then is to buy a hand held pH meter as it's going to be an
ongoing
problem.

Well, maybe. I wouldn't.


It might help him to work out how much lime he wants to add in the first
place, and then check effectiveness.

As a rough guide, RHS recommends 190 gm/m2 Calcium Carbonate to raise pH by
half a unit (loam soil); 420 gm/m2 (clay soil); 140 gm/m2 (sandy soil). The
normal target is a slightly acid soil of 6.5. This time of year would be a
good time to dig it in. Probably not such a good idea to add manure at the
same time, because ammonia may be released, reducing the nitrogen content.

Me, I just chuck a few handfuls on and dig it in :-)

"BAC" wrote
It might help him to work out how much lime he wants to add in the first
place, and then check effectiveness.

That's why I want a hand held pH meter, do a sq metre with a known weight of
lime, leave for a bit and check so I can work out the dose needed for the
whole plot.


As a rough guide, RHS recommends 190 gm/m2 Calcium Carbonate to raise pH
by
half a unit (loam soil); 420 gm/m2 (clay soil); 140 gm/m2 (sandy soil).
The
normal target is a slightly acid soil of 6.5. This time of year would be a
good time to dig it in. Probably not such a good idea to add manure at the
same time, because ammonia may be released, reducing the nitrogen content.

Thank you for that, the strange nature of the soil, some days it's like
light clay other days it seems more like sandy loam, makes those
recomendations only a very rough guide. :-(
Unfortunately the plot also needs manure, but that can wait until the new
year if I get well rotted stuff.


Me, I just chuck a few handfuls on and dig it in :-)

So did I before we moved to this plot! :-)

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Bob Hobden wrote:
"BAC" wrote
It might help him to work out how much lime he wants to add in the
first place, and then check effectiveness.

That's why I want a hand held pH meter, do a sq metre with a known
weight of lime, leave for a bit and check so I can work out the
dose
needed for the whole plot.


As a rough guide, RHS recommends 190 gm/m2 Calcium Carbonate to
raise pH by
half a unit (loam soil); 420 gm/m2 (clay soil); 140 gm/m2 (sandy
soil). The
normal target is a slightly acid soil of 6.5. This time of year
would be a good time to dig it in. Probably not such a good idea
to
add manure at the same time, because ammonia may be released,
reducing the nitrogen content.

Thank you for that, the strange nature of the soil, some days it's
like light clay other days it seems more like sandy loam, makes
those
recomendations only a very rough guide. :-(
Unfortunately the plot also needs manure, but that can wait until
the
new year if I get well rotted stuff.


Me, I just chuck a few handfuls on and dig it in :-)

So did I before we moved to this plot! :-)

Isn't it usual to do it the other way round: muck now, and lime in
the spring? (I've never been too fussy, though.)

It's your plot, and you know its characteristics, while I don't. You
also know the way you like doing things, and it would be none of my
business if you hadn't asked! But I'd still do it by intelligent
guesstimate: you can see what grows well and what doesn't, and you
can smell and handle the soil. And it's almost _impossible_ to get it
wrong in any way that matters. I have no great faith in amateur
soil-tests: just another thing to spend money on for no discernible
benefit.

I think I'd muck now; then in the spring lime half the plot
moderately heavily, and the other half lightly or not at all. What
liming you do the next year to depend on results.

"Lime, lime, and lime some more,
Makes father rich but son makes poor." (I think this probably applies
to less finely-divided and hence less soluble sources of lime than we
use now.)

--
Mike.

I was going to look up the dosage figures in another old book, but BAc has
saved me the effort.
The other message in ancient reference is that lime is easily leached from
sandy soils so that the light dose has to be repeated frequently-every two
years. Clay soils by their nature are well buffered and maintain the
correction for long periods.
Regards
David T.
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Bob Hobden wrote:
"BAC" wrote
It might help him to work out how much lime he wants to add in the
first place, and then check effectiveness.

That's why I want a hand held pH meter, do a sq metre with a known
weight of lime, leave for a bit and check so I can work out the
dose
needed for the whole plot.


As a rough guide, RHS recommends 190 gm/m2 Calcium Carbonate to
raise pH by
half a unit (loam soil); 420 gm/m2 (clay soil); 140 gm/m2 (sandy
soil). The
normal target is a slightly acid soil of 6.5. This time of year
would be a good time to dig it in. Probably not such a good idea
to
add manure at the same time, because ammonia may be released,
reducing the nitrogen content.

Thank you for that, the strange nature of the soil, some days it's
like light clay other days it seems more like sandy loam, makes
those
recomendations only a very rough guide. :-(
Unfortunately the plot also needs manure, but that can wait until
the
new year if I get well rotted stuff.


Me, I just chuck a few handfuls on and dig it in :-)

So did I before we moved to this plot! :-)

Isn't it usual to do it the other way round: muck now, and lime in
the spring? (I've never been too fussy, though.)

It's your plot, and you know its characteristics, while I don't. You
also know the way you like doing things, and it would be none of my
business if you hadn't asked! But I'd still do it by intelligent
guesstimate: you can see what grows well and what doesn't, and you
can smell and handle the soil. And it's almost _impossible_ to get it
wrong in any way that matters. I have no great faith in amateur
soil-tests: just another thing to spend money on for no discernible
benefit.

I think I'd muck now; then in the spring lime half the plot
moderately heavily, and the other half lightly or not at all. What
liming you do the next year to depend on results.

"Lime, lime, and lime some more,
Makes father rich but son makes poor." (I think this probably applies
to less finely-divided and hence less soluble sources of lime than we
use now.)

--
Mike.