Today's Daily Telegraph gardening supplement has a good article on older
varieties of apples, especially those grown for cider and juice making.
It's worth reading for the wonderful names of the apples alone - all old
English types and as the article says, how hard it is to find English apples
in supermarkets nowadays! I can thoroughly recommend the apple juice made
by the Bradley family, BTW, they supply our tea room!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

at my work in scotland we're in the process of planting the biggest heritage apple orchard in the country for over 100 years. give us a call (in 5 years) and we'll sort you out with over 15 variety's including lass o' gowrie, cambusnethan pippin and egremont russet.

Could you tell us where you are planting the heritage apple orchard in
Scotland? My husband is very keen on old apple varieties (and awaiting
the arrival of two Api Noir bare-rooted trees in the next few weeks).
Although we've been opening our garden in the summer for the past eight
years, we held our first Apple Day in October and were quite astonished
by the response. There are more apple enthusiasts in the north of
Scotland than we ever realised!

Kristina
on the Black Isle

Sacha wrote:
Today's Daily Telegraph gardening supplement has a good article on older
varieties of apples, especially those grown for cider and juice making.
It's worth reading for the wonderful names of the apples alone - all old
English types and as the article says, how hard it is to find English apples
in supermarkets nowadays! I can thoroughly recommend the apple juice made
by the Bradley family, BTW, they supply our tea room!

I don't know if things have changed but I remember the 'shock horror'
many years ago of the EC declaring many old species of fruit and
vegetables illegal to grow for selling commercially. Initially they
forgot to tell everyone the 'for selling' bit but then later stated that
it was okay for the home enthusiast to grow for own use.

Hopefully they've seen sense on this but I've not heard much since I was
a member of the HDRA.


Richard.


--
We trade our health in search of wealth,
We scrimp and toil and save;
We trade our wealth in search of health,
But only find the grave.

On 19/11/05 23:40, in article ,
"Richard Brooks" wrote:

Sacha wrote:
Today's Daily Telegraph gardening supplement has a good article on older
varieties of apples, especially those grown for cider and juice making.
It's worth reading for the wonderful names of the apples alone - all old
English types and as the article says, how hard it is to find English apples
in supermarkets nowadays! I can thoroughly recommend the apple juice made
by the Bradley family, BTW, they supply our tea room!

I don't know if things have changed but I remember the 'shock horror'
many years ago of the EC declaring many old species of fruit and
vegetables illegal to grow for selling commercially. Initially they
forgot to tell everyone the 'for selling' bit but then later stated that
it was okay for the home enthusiast to grow for own use.

Hopefully they've seen sense on this but I've not heard much since I was
a member of the HDRA.

Well, the nursery called Thornhayes, which is in Devon, sells a lot of very
ancient varieties of fruit trees of all kinds, especially apples and pears.
So I can't imagine that it's illegal to sell them. There's one apple tree
with the wonderful name of 'Greasy Butcher'! Their catalogue can be
downloaded as a pdf file. It's worth reading the fruit trees section for
the names alone, IMO! They say most of these trees are selected for the wet
and mild West Country so it would be worth anyone interested talking to
Thornhayes about their suitability for elsewhere. The catalogue gives a
short background history to each tree and its fruiting dates and keeping
qualities, too.
www.thornhayes-nursery.co.uk/
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

"Richard Brooks" wrote in message
...

I don't know if things have changed but I remember the 'shock horror'
many years ago of the EC declaring many old species of fruit and
vegetables illegal to grow for selling commercially.

....

As far as apples are concerned at least, the position is
that the EC introduced Common Marketing standards for
apples so that in principle ordinary consumers knew what they
could expect. All varieties of apples which were submitted
were graded according to colouring, russetting, and size,
and it's a condition of all grading whether "Extra" Class,
Class I, or Class II that the apples conform to the general
characteristics of the variety.

The problem may have arisen because it costs money to submit
individual varieties to the appropriate EC testing body for
registration, so that if only one or two growers are growing a
particular variety it becomes uneconomic.

However this is probably as much a protection for people being
fobbed of with "heritage varieties" which are being sold at a
premium - but which in fact may be no such thing - as anything
else.



michael adams

http://tinyurl.com/7mu46

for-

http://www.agribusinessonline.com/re...pplespears.pdf












Initially they
forgot to tell everyone the 'for selling' bit but then later stated that
it was okay for the home enthusiast to grow for own use.

Hopefully they've seen sense on this but I've not heard much since I was
a member of the HDRA.


Richard.


--
We trade our health in search of wealth,
We scrimp and toil and save;
We trade our wealth in search of health,
But only find the grave.

Sacha wrote:
On 19/11/05 23:40, in article ,
"Richard Brooks" wrote:


Sacha wrote:

Today's Daily Telegraph gardening supplement has a good article on older
varieties of apples, especially those grown for cider and juice making.
It's worth reading for the wonderful names of the apples alone - all old
English types and as the article says, how hard it is to find English apples
in supermarkets nowadays! I can thoroughly recommend the apple juice made
by the Bradley family, BTW, they supply our tea room!

I don't know if things have changed but I remember the 'shock horror'
many years ago of the EC declaring many old species of fruit and
vegetables illegal to grow for selling commercially. Initially they
forgot to tell everyone the 'for selling' bit but then later stated that
it was okay for the home enthusiast to grow for own use.

Hopefully they've seen sense on this but I've not heard much since I was
a member of the HDRA.


Well, the nursery called Thornhayes, which is in Devon, sells a lot of very
ancient varieties of fruit trees of all kinds, especially apples and pears.
So I can't imagine that it's illegal to sell them. There's one apple tree
with the wonderful name of 'Greasy Butcher'! Their catalogue can be
downloaded as a pdf file. It's worth reading the fruit trees section for
the names alone, IMO! They say most of these trees are selected for the wet
and mild West Country so it would be worth anyone interested talking to
Thornhayes about their suitability for elsewhere. The catalogue gives a
short background history to each tree and its fruiting dates and keeping
qualities, too.
www.thornhayes-nursery.co.uk/

The difference being if you set up as a commercial concern which is a
wholly different aim than to buy them just for your garden or private
orchard. The home grower suddenly finds a whole new set of rules and
guidelines when thinking of saving the seed or fruit from something
they've enjoyed and want to now share it for some pennies. I think the
term now used by the EU is 'protectionism' and to be thought of in a
positive sense. Personally I'd like to buy some of those bananas that
the EU don't see as being recognised as being from one of the countries
that supply the EU and insert them where Gorillas won't find them.

Hopefully they've ditched this idea but I think it was done at a time
when member states were being told what to grow and what diversity they
should restrict themselves to.


Richard.


--
We trade our health in search of wealth,
We scrimp and toil and save;
We trade our wealth in search of health,
But only find the grave.

michael adams wrote:
"Richard Brooks" wrote in message
...

I don't know if things have changed but I remember the 'shock horror'
many years ago of the EC declaring many old species of fruit and
vegetables illegal to grow for selling commercially.


...

As far as apples are concerned at least, the position is
that the EC introduced Common Marketing standards for
apples so that in principle ordinary consumers knew what they
could expect. All varieties of apples which were submitted
were graded according to colouring, russetting, and size,
and it's a condition of all grading whether "Extra" Class,
Class I, or Class II that the apples conform to the general
characteristics of the variety.

The problem may have arisen because it costs money to submit
individual varieties to the appropriate EC testing body for
registration, so that if only one or two growers are growing a
particular variety it becomes uneconomic.

Why then not sell as 'unregistered' especially if that variety might
have been sold for a few hundred years to the very same families who'd
bought them only the day before the ruling came in ?

I think nowadays with the growth of farmers markets and a return to
selling locally and in relatively small amounts this idea of selling for
a large commercial gain and in vast quantities then falls by the
wayside. It becomes a return to marketing produce in the pre-Common
Market days with the old steel bowled weighing scales, a wooden painted
board to announce what was on sale that season and paper bags to enclose
the produce, all of which I remember very well.


However this is probably as much a protection for people being
fobbed of with "heritage varieties" which are being sold at a
premium - but which in fact may be no such thing - as anything
else.

It's time for a loosening or changing of guidelines to reflect the
changes in production and selling. Unless, happily that has already
happened.


michael adams

http://tinyurl.com/7mu46

for-

http://www.agribusinessonline.com/re...pplespears.pdf


Richard.


--
We trade our health in search of wealth,
We scrimp and toil and save;
We trade our wealth in search of health,
But only find the grave.

"Richard Brooks" wrote in message
...
michael adams wrote:
"Richard Brooks" wrote in message
...

I don't know if things have changed but I remember the 'shock horror'
many years ago of the EC declaring many old species of fruit and
vegetables illegal to grow for selling commercially.


...

As far as apples are concerned at least, the position is
that the EC introduced Common Marketing standards for
apples so that in principle ordinary consumers knew what they
could expect. All varieties of apples which were submitted
were graded according to colouring, russetting, and size,
and it's a condition of all grading whether "Extra" Class,
Class I, or Class II that the apples conform to the general
characteristics of the variety.

The problem may have arisen because it costs money to submit
individual varieties to the appropriate EC testing body for
registration, so that if only one or two growers are growing a
particular variety it becomes uneconomic.

Why then not sell as 'unregistered' especially if that variety might
have been sold for a few hundred years to the very same families who'd
bought them only the day before the ruling came in ?

I think nowadays with the growth of farmers markets and a return to
selling locally and in relatively small amounts this idea of selling for
a large commercial gain and in vast quantities then falls by the
wayside. It becomes a return to marketing produce in the pre-Common
Market days with the old steel bowled weighing scales, a wooden painted
board to announce what was on sale that season and paper bags to enclose
the produce, all of which I remember very well.

....

Farmers markets, organic produce, and heritage varieties, all of
which can charge a premium, also open up a large potential for fraud.
In the old days when such things were the norm, and there were no
large supermarket chains there was no scope for such a premium.
Whereas nowadays there is, because its generally accepted that such
produce is more expensive to produce compared with what's available
in Supermarkets and ordinary street markets.
I don't have any precise knowledge, as to how much inspection there
is etc. But the fact is that consumers naturally assume that anyone
selling in those markets is automaticaly somehow more ethical then
the local supermarket. And that farmers markets won't attract their
fair share of Arthur Daley types

....



However this is probably as much a protection for people being
fobbed of with "heritage varieties" which are being sold at a
premium - but which in fact may be no such thing - as anything
else.

It's time for a loosening or changing of guidelines to reflect the
changes in production and selling. Unless, happily that has already
happened.

....

If people want to pay more for their produce in Farmers Markets
then that's their choice. But they still need protection from
unethical trading practices and misrepresentation.

According to some people at least.


michael adams

....






michael adams

http://tinyurl.com/7mu46

for-


http://www.agribusinessonline.com/re...pplespears.pdf


Richard.


--
We trade our health in search of wealth,
We scrimp and toil and save;
We trade our wealth in search of health,
But only find the grave.