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Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
I have been told on good authority that the talc powder based
preparations lose their effectiveness after about eight months, even if kept in a closed container and refrigerated. I've checked on my containers and none have any dates. Are they supposed to ??? Where can I get some 'fresh' rooting powder from ??? |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
"thesquire" wrote in a message: snip I have been told on good authority that the talc powder based preparations lose their effectiveness after about eight months, even if kept in a closed container and refrigerated. --- I have been using the same giant tub of hormone rooting powder for the five years. No wonder my cuttings haven't come to much these past three. Where can I get some 'fresh' rooting powder from ??? Notcutts? M.R. |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
The message
from thesquire contains these words: I have been told on good authority that the talc powder based preparations lose their effectiveness after about eight months, even if kept in a closed container and refrigerated. I've checked on my containers and none have any dates. Are they supposed to ??? Where can I get some 'fresh' rooting powder from ??? Hello! Someone waving a red rag? -- Rusty Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk Separator in search of a sig |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
Mike Roscoe wrote:
"thesquire" wrote in a message: snip I have been told on good authority that the talc powder based preparations lose their effectiveness after about eight months, even if kept in a closed container and refrigerated. --- I have been using the same giant tub of hormone rooting powder for the five years. No wonder my cuttings haven't come to much these past three. Where can I get some 'fresh' rooting powder from ??? Notcutts? I know I'm not alone in thinking the freshness of your rooting powder probably has little to do with your success rate. Few species actually need it, and -- especially if you use too much -- it can even _hinder_ rooting. I think light, temperature, moisture level, and medium are usually more important. It's also easy -- or it is if you happen to be as casual as I often am -- to put in your cuttings in such a way or such a medium as to leave an air gap underneath or around them: this is asking for failure. -- Mike. |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
The message
from "Mike Lyle" contains these words: I know I'm not alone in thinking the freshness of your rooting powder probably has little to do with your success rate. Few species actually need it, and -- especially if you use too much -- it can even _hinder_ rooting. I think light, temperature, moisture level, and medium are usually more important. It's also easy -- or it is if you happen to be as casual as I often am -- to put in your cuttings in such a way or such a medium as to leave an air gap underneath or around them: this is asking for failure. We shall see... A kind urgler sent me some Worcesterberry cuttings last year and they went in to a bed I have to pass to get to the back door, and because of its position, easy to shade. No rooting hormone used. A neighbour cut off some forsythia and added it to the litter (leaf and twig!) in the hedge down the loke, and I took a few cuttings from that and just poked them in. No rooting hormone. I've never found rooting hormone to affect how cuttings strike - neither the speed of it nor the reliability. All the cuttings - Worcesterberry and forsythia appear OK ATM. -- Rusty Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk Separator in search of a sig |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
The message
from "Rupert" contains these words: "thesquire" wrote in message ... I have been told on good authority that the talc powder based preparations lose their effectiveness after about eight months, even if kept in a closed container and refrigerated. snip Which good authority has given you this information? IMHO they are talking nonsense. I suppose it depends what the formulation contains. Normal stuff contains Indolebutyric acid and /or Naphthylacetic acid with other bits and pieces such as fungicide in a talc powder carrier. These ingredients are stable indefinitely (as a solid) if stored away from light. This may be true, but it could also be that they react with each-other. Citric acid is stable, as is bicarbonate of soda, but mixed, they are not. Over a period of time they will inter-react, and with considerable vigour if water gains access. -- Rusty Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk Separator in search of a sig |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
Whilst studying the RHS General, I got told the same thing. The group
could not find dates on talc products. The only product we found that did have a date on it was a gel from Clonex, which has a date on it. I got some via mail order, but only had 3 months on it. They had a stand at Gardeners World, so begged the question. The gell is blue and goes brown when it looses its effectiveness, the date provides guidance. If only the talc was so clear. As far as talc based producs went, we concluded it was best to by in season, when the was more than the odd pot on the shelf, then take from the back (so synical us lot!) Clifford |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
We were told that IBA / NAA was not stable
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Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
Mike,
you raise some good points here. The main advantage of rooting powder is the fungicide, IMO I was told there were a couple of reasons for failure beyond what you have mentioned. Too much powder forms a cap which affects air and moisture reaching the root zone, which then affects the roots abbility to break though the talc cap. This is one of the reasons I have moved over too gel. I take you point about other factors being major players, humidity, moisture etc, but they are out of control for most amateurs (how many of us can accurately control temperature - many domestic electric propogators have fixed thermostats - my Scotts heats the soil to 24°C, which explained my poor performance) |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
"thesquire" wrote in message ... I have been told on good authority that the talc powder based preparations lose their effectiveness after about eight months, even if kept in a closed container and refrigerated. The manufacturers own website for "Strike2" from PBI gives a minimum stored shelf life of two years and at least another two years after opening if uncontaminated. They don't say anything specific about optimum storage conditions, but keeping most things organic and chemical in the dark (to use the technical terminology) away from UV light, and relatively cool seems to prolong their lifespan. quote An unopened container of Strike2 has a minimum shelf life of two years. Strike 2 is registered for sale under the guidelines set by the UK Regulatory Authority and as part of this registration such storage stability must be proved. Once a container has been opened the shelf life can be just as long, however, it may be necessary to replace product in shorter time spells due to contamination from soil or plant debris in the powder. http://www.pbi.co.uk/products/239/1/?Strike+2 /quote You'd imagine PBI would be keen to promote as many replacement sales as possible - and so this can presumably be taken as a conservative estimate of the product's longevity. The fungicidal component in rooting poeder is apprently more persistent, and so this alone may account for continued success when using much older powder - up to 8 or to 10 years old in my case. Or maybe its benefits are overstated for some material in any case. When this question was asked on Gardeners Question Time in 2002 two of the panellists admitted they'd stopped using it years ago with they claimed, no appreciable difference. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/gqt/fshe...heetsq12.shtml michael adams .... I've checked on my containers and none have any dates. Are they supposed to ??? Where can I get some 'fresh' rooting powder from ??? |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
"michael adams" wrote "thesquire" wrote in message ... I have been told on good authority that the talc powder based preparations lose their effectiveness after about eight months, even if kept in a closed container and refrigerated. snippage When this question was asked on Gardeners Question Time in 2002 two of the panellists admitted they'd stopped using it years ago with they claimed, no appreciable difference. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/gqt/fshe...heetsq12.shtml I can also remember reading an article by Geoffrey Smith, who mentioned trying two trays of similar cuttings, one using rooting powder as per the instructions, and one tray without. IIRC he found no appreciable difference and concluded it was a waste of money. The cynical part of me wonders if a use-by date on the container wouldn't just be a sales tactic so people will throw it out and buy more product. -- Sue |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
"Rupert" wrote in message
... .. I suppose it depends what the formulation contains. Normal stuff contains Indolebutyric acid and /or Naphthylacetic acid with other bits and pieces such as fungicide in a talc powder carrier. These ingredients are stable indefinitely (as a solid) if stored away from light. But not in the presence of water. If you've dipped the cuttings in the tub then you are storing damp material. Just take out a tiny bit to use now and close the container. Having said that I never need it anyway. -- Rod My real address is rodtheweedygardeneratmyweedyisp Just remove the weedy bits and transplant the appropriate symbol at. |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
"Rusty Hinge 2" wrote in message k... The message from "Rupert" contains these words: "thesquire" wrote in message ... I have been told on good authority that the talc powder based preparations lose their effectiveness after about eight months, even if kept in a closed container and refrigerated. snip Which good authority has given you this information? IMHO they are talking nonsense. I suppose it depends what the formulation contains. Normal stuff contains Indolebutyric acid and /or Naphthylacetic acid with other bits and pieces such as fungicide in a talc powder carrier. These ingredients are stable indefinitely (as a solid) if stored away from light. This may be true, but it could also be that they react with each-other. Citric acid is stable, as is bicarbonate of soda, but mixed, they are not. Over a period of time they will inter-react, and with considerable vigour if water gains access. -- Rusty Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk Separator in search of a sig Citric acid and sodium bicarbonate when mixed as solids do not react. Andrews liver salts /Alka-Seltzer the above mixture only fizz with water. Indolebutyric acid/Naphthylacetic acid are stable and do not react. |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message ... The message from "Sue" contains these words: "michael adams" wrote When this question was asked on Gardeners Question Time in 2002 two of the panellists admitted they'd stopped using it years ago with they claimed, no appreciable difference. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/gqt/fshe...heetsq12.shtml On the link you quote, the third panellist, John Cushnie, said "I use it, great stuff! And so cheap it won't cost a fortune to re-stock." .... Indeed. But the two panellists I cited, Nigel Colborn and Bunny Guinness had previously used rooting powder, and then stopped. In the case of Nigel Colborn 12 years ago. And both claimed they found no difference in the results they obtained. John Cushnie on the other hand, gives no indication that there has ever been a time when he didn't use rooting powder. In which case if he's always used it, he has no way of knowing whether it's really effective or not. That's why I only cited the first two. michael adams .... I can also remember reading an article by Geoffrey Smith, who mentioned trying two trays of similar cuttings, one using rooting powder as per the instructions, and one tray without. IIRC he found no appreciable difference and concluded it was a waste of money. Some plants like forsythia, blackcurrant, buddleja, willow, root so easily and fast it barely matters how you trim them, what you plant them in or how much care they get. Ram untrimmed prunings in the garden soil where they fell, drop them in a puddle, and many will root. Others such as roses and clematis need more preparation and care. I use hormone rooting powder on any cuttings which are tricky enough to be going into a pot, an enclosed atmosphere, and any growing medium better than a shovel of neat garden soil. The smallest possible pot of powder (about the height of a green thumb) costs a couple of pounds in any GC, and will "do" many hundreds of cuttings over several seasons....trivial outlay and effort. Janet. |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
"Rod Craddock" wrote in message ... "Rupert" wrote in message ... . I suppose it depends what the formulation contains. Normal stuff contains Indolebutyric acid and /or Naphthylacetic acid with other bits and pieces such as fungicide in a talc powder carrier. These ingredients are stable indefinitely (as a solid) if stored away from light. But not in the presence of water. If you've dipped the cuttings in the tub then you are storing damp material. Just take out a tiny bit to use now and close the container. .... Top Tip! michael adams .... Having said that I never need it anyway. -- Rod My real address is rodtheweedygardeneratmyweedyisp Just remove the weedy bits and transplant the appropriate symbol at. |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
The message
from "Rupert" contains these words: Citric acid and sodium bicarbonate when mixed as solids do not react. Andrews liver salts /Alka-Seltzer the above mixture only fizz with water. Try keeping 'liver salts'sealed for a couple of years and then look at them. I came across some in a tightly-sealed tin and stirred a spoonful into some water, and it barely fizzed. If it had got damp enough for it to react in the normal way, it would have been caked solid, and the lid would have been blown off long before that. Only a tiny amount of moisture needs to be present, and it will exchange ions surreptitiously, and you'll be none the wiser until you come to use your 'remedy'. (Which in fact is not particularly good for you anyway - any good the citrate does you is likely to be offset by the sodium.) Indolebutyric acid/Naphthylacetic acid are stable and do not react. I don't know if you're right, or how stable is 'stable', and whether that stability remains so in the presence of acidic magnesium hydrated silicate. -- Rusty Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk Separator in search of a sig |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
"Rusty Hinge 2" wrote in message k... The message from "Rupert" contains these words: Citric acid and sodium bicarbonate when mixed as solids do not react. Andrews liver salts /Alka-Seltzer the above mixture only fizz with water. Try keeping 'liver salts'sealed for a couple of years and then look at them. I came across some in a tightly-sealed tin and stirred a spoonful into some water, and it barely fizzed. If it had got damp enough for it to react in the normal way, it would have been caked solid, and the lid would have been blown off long before that. Only a tiny amount of moisture needs to be present, and it will exchange ions surreptitiously, and you'll be none the wiser until you come to use your 'remedy'. (Which in fact is not particularly good for you anyway - any good the citrate does you is likely to be offset by the sodium.) Indolebutyric acid/Naphthylacetic acid are stable and do not react. I don't know if you're right, or how stable is 'stable', and whether that stability remains so in the presence of acidic magnesium hydrated silicate. Stick to computing your Khemistry is not good enough:-) Inorganic bit The composition of fizzy stomach cure things works on the fact that the solution is alkaline and neutralises stomach acidity. The citic/bicarbonate mix contains excess bicarbonate hence the resultant drink is alkaline and does its work. Organic bit Under normal conditions (but excluding light) the hormone rooting mixture we are discussing will last indefinately even in the presence of hydrared magnesium silicate. The only ingredient that may cause problems is any fungicide in the mix (I have no knowledge of that) |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
The message
from "Rupert" contains these words: Stick to computing your Khemistry is not good enough:-) Inorganic bit The composition of fizzy stomach cure things works on the fact that the solution is alkaline and neutralises stomach acidity. The citic/bicarbonate mix contains excess bicarbonate hence the resultant drink is alkaline and does its work. And how does this differ from what I wrote? Organic bit Under normal conditions (but excluding light) the hormone rooting mixture we are discussing will last indefinately even in the presence of hydrared magnesium silicate. The only ingredient that may cause problems is any fungicide in the mix (I have no knowledge of that) Why does it carry a 'use by' date? -- Rusty Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk Separator in search of a sig |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
"Rusty Hinge 2" wrote in message k... The message from "Rupert" contains these words: Stick to computing your Khemistry is not good enough:-) Inorganic bit The composition of fizzy stomach cure things works on the fact that the solution is alkaline and neutralises stomach acidity. The citic/bicarbonate mix contains excess bicarbonate hence the resultant drink is alkaline and does its work. And how does this differ from what I wrote? I thought you were inferring the citric acid cancelled the bicarb in term s of alkalinity. Organic bit Under normal conditions (but excluding light) the hormone rooting mixture we are discussing will last indefinately even in the presence of hydrared magnesium silicate. The only ingredient that may cause problems is any fungicide in the mix (I have no knowledge of that) Why does it carry a 'use by' date? Some don't (as per original post by thesquire) but I suppose these days most things carriy a use before date. It helps stock rotation. Just had a look at salt , olive oil and asprin all of which have expiry dates and none of these have any shelf life problems. Let's get back to discussing Linux:-) -- Rusty Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk Separator in search of a sig |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
The message
from "Rupert" contains these words: I thought you were inferring the citric acid cancelled the bicarb in term s of alkalinity. No, I was just saying that the good (vitamin) that citric acid may do might be outweighed by the (alleged) ill that sodium may do. Organic bit Under normal conditions (but excluding light) the hormone rooting mixture we are discussing will last indefinately even in the presence of hydrared magnesium silicate. The only ingredient that may cause problems is any fungicide in the mix (I have no knowledge of that) Why does it carry a 'use by' date? Some don't (as per original post by thesquire) but I suppose these days most things carriy a use before date. It helps stock rotation. Just had a look at salt , olive oil and asprin all of which have expiry dates and none of these have any shelf life problems. No, but these are foods, and the EU in its 'wisdom' requires a sell-by date. I've noticed that old olive oil (use-by dates hold no thrall over me, either) tends to solidify at a higher and higher temperature as it ages, even when the bottle has been sealed. In the late 1990s we were still eating jam my mother made in the '60s. True, some of it had to be microwaved for a while to redissolve the rocks of crystalline sugar which had grown... Let's get back to discussing Linux:-) I've got a distro which runs from a floppy... -- Rusty Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk Separator in search of a sig |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
In message , Rusty Hinge
2 writes In the late 1990s we were still eating jam my mother made in the '60s. A far cry from the "refrigerate once opened" nonsense sold by today's supermarkets. -- Kay |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
"Rusty Hinge 2" wrote in message k... The message from "Rupert" contains these words: Snip Let's get back to discussing Linux:-) I've got a distro which runs from a floppy... Yes and it's brill --a Geek type bunged it on my laptop without me knowing and frightened the ship(sp) out of me . I can guarantee you will never ever ever get a BSOD if you follow this:- http://www.beemerworld.com/tips/bsodchange.htm |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
wrote in message ... In message , Rusty Hinge 2 writes In the late 1990s we were still eating jam my mother made in the '60s. A far cry from the "refrigerate once opened" nonsense sold by today's supermarkets. -- Kay Shush don't educate everyone. I save a fortune buying near expiry goods from the local supermarkets and agree with my neighbours that once it's gone past the sell by date they should clear their cupboards and give the offending goods to me for safe disposal. |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
|
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
The message
from "Rupert" contains these words: "Rusty Hinge 2" wrote in message k... The message from "Rupert" contains these words: Snip Let's get back to discussing Linux:-) I've got a distro which runs from a floppy... Yes and it's brill --a Geek type bunged it on my laptop without me knowing and frightened the ship(sp) out of me . Tom's? I've Knoppix on live CD and I'm just about to burn the latest Ubantu, and there's Debian in a tray, and Mempis ready to play with if/when I feel like installing it. (Also got a lot of old distros, including FT, which I've had for yonks - S.u.S.E. was developed from FT.) I can guarantee you will never ever ever get a BSOD if you follow this:- http://www.beemerworld.com/tips/bsodchange.htm I try to avoid them, though I have got a Beemer... -- Rusty Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk Separator in search of a sig |
Hormone rooting powder - sell by date??
The message
from "Rupert" contains these words: wrote in message ... In message , Rusty Hinge 2 writes In the late 1990s we were still eating jam my mother made in the '60s. A far cry from the "refrigerate once opened" nonsense sold by today's supermarkets. -- Kay Shush don't educate everyone. I save a fortune buying near expiry goods from the local supermarkets and agree with my neighbours that once it's gone past the sell by date they should clear their cupboards and give the offending goods to me for safe disposal. Seconded. I picked up a couple of black puddings - the whole horseshoe wossnames - in a supermarket some time ago - marked down to 10p each. I got to the checkout about a minute past midnight and they wouldn't sell them to me: they were past their sell-by date, and that was it.. So I offered to dispose of them without charge to save them the trouble, but they weren't having any of it. And nor was I. Sniff! -- Rusty Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk Separator in search of a sig |
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