Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

I have a garden that has lots of ground elder not all of which I can
remove at the moment. What can I plant among it (11/2 to 2 1/2 feet)
that can grow with it.

Bell

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

"Annabel" wrote in message
I have a garden that has lots of ground elder not all of which I can
remove at the moment. What can I plant among it (11/2 to 2 1/2 feet)
that can grow with it.

Why not use a Glyphosate weedkiller (Roundup) to do the job, no need to be
worried about the use of such degradable chemicals in a flower border.

--
Bob

www.pooleygreengrowers.org.uk/ about an Allotment site in
Runnymede fighting for it's existence.

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

"Annabel" wrote in message
...
I have a garden that has lots of ground elder not all of which I can
remove at the moment. What can I plant among it (11/2 to 2 1/2 feet)
that can grow with it.


IME nothing! The damned ground elder will swamp everything apart from real
thugs such as Japanese anemone!

Don't even think of digging out the ground elder unless you have the
patience of a saint and a back of iron!

Glyphosate today.
Weedol on the same next Friday
Glyphosate on any green regrowth two weeks today.

Repeat!

Tedious, but not very time consuming and it works! You are constantly
promoting strong new growth of the type that will most readily take back the
glyphosate to the roots and just at the right time of the year too!

pk

ps btw the only thing I can think of that grows to 11/2 feet and can compete
with Ground elder is Japanese knotweed (;-) Sorry, couldn't resist!

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

In article ,
Paul Kelly wrote:

"Annabel" wrote in message
...
I have a garden that has lots of ground elder not all of which I can
remove at the moment. What can I plant among it (11/2 to 2 1/2 feet)
that can grow with it.

IME nothing! The damned ground elder will swamp everything apart from real
thugs such as Japanese anemone!

In my experience, lots of things! Anything that is deep rooted and
can take the summer waterlessness caused by the ground elder should
be OK. But most of those grow rather larger than a couple of feet,
and are often trees or large shrubs.

I agree that growing anything surface rooted is a complete waste of
time until you have eliminated the ground elder.

Don't even think of digging out the ground elder unless you have the
patience of a saint and a back of iron!

I find it dead easy in a vegetable patch. It rarely goes down further
than 6" and is fairly obvious. It is a right pain in the middle of
herbaceous plants and shrubs, though, as well as where it can run
under paving slabs etc.

Compare it with field bindweed, which I have posted before is a New
Zealand plant that has grown downwards :-( Horsetail is similar.

Glyphosate today.
Weedol on the same next Friday
Glyphosate on any green regrowth two weeks today.

Repeat!

Tedious, but not very time consuming and it works! You are constantly
promoting strong new growth of the type that will most readily take back the
glyphosate to the roots and just at the right time of the year too!

I find it one of the more resistant plants, and it seems to laugh
off my applications. But it seems to work a bit better as the weather
warms up - on ground elder, glyphosate seems to block the water
transport to some extent but not the photosynthesis.

As I understand it, you are recommending killing off the tops one
week after first application and then repeating the glyphosate.
Is that right? I haven't tried that, and will give it a go.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
Paul Kelly wrote:

IME nothing! The damned ground elder will swamp everything apart from real
thugs such as Japanese anemone!

In my experience, lots of things! Anything that is deep rooted and
can take the summer waterlessness caused by the ground elder should
be OK. But most of those grow rather larger than a couple of feet,
and are often trees or large shrubs.

Most things that can grow and ignore it are shrubs, but ISTR one of the marigold
family produces its own herbicide and is supposed to be able to take the stuff on
and win. I've not tried it myself.

I agree that growing anything surface rooted is a complete waste of
time until you have eliminated the ground elder.

Don't even think of digging out the ground elder unless you have the
patience of a saint and a back of iron!

I find it dead easy in a vegetable patch. It rarely goes down further
than 6" and is fairly obvious. It is a right pain in the middle of
herbaceous plants and shrubs, though, as well as where it can run
under paving slabs etc.

The odd bit breaks off and regrows. I find the best approach is a combination of
chemical hits with glyphosate about once a month and strimming after a fortnight.
The remains can be dug out and are so weakened that any bits you miss are unable
to regrow. Never let it get any decent leaves in sunlight and starve the roots
out.

Enough to clear herbaceous borders in a season. Just needs a steady hand to apply
the weedkiller. Or patience to go round lopping off all its leaves.

Compare it with field bindweed, which I have posted before is a New
Zealand plant that has grown downwards :-( Horsetail is similar.

Horsetail is much much worse. Moving house is the only solution to that stuff!

Glyphosate today.
Weedol on the same next Friday
Glyphosate on any green regrowth two weeks today.

Repeat!

Tedious, but not very time consuming and it works! You are constantly
promoting strong new growth of the type that will most readily take back the
glyphosate to the roots and just at the right time of the year too!

I find it one of the more resistant plants, and it seems to laugh
off my applications. But it seems to work a bit better as the weather
warms up - on ground elder, glyphosate seems to block the water
transport to some extent but not the photosynthesis.

Hit it regularly with slightly over diluted glyphosate. And hit any regrowth
after a couple of weeks. It doesn't matter whether you strim it or use chemical
attack the object ist to stop it putting any food into the roots.

As I understand it, you are recommending killing off the tops one
week after first application and then repeating the glyphosate.
Is that right? I haven't tried that, and will give it a go.

Starve it for a while and then dig out the remains.
On the edge of a lawn even repeated close crop mowing will get it.

I wonder if the type of soil plays a part. I have never found ground elder that
much of a problem. It can be defeated in only a couple of years. I find bindweed
and especially horsetail pretty much indestructible.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Paul Kelly wrote:

"Annabel" wrote in message

As I understand it, you are recommending killing off the tops one
week after first application and then repeating the glyphosate.
Is that right? I haven't tried that, and will give it a go.


yep. I seems to work very well. When you kill off the green tops, the roots
demand feeding quickly and send out new top growth, if you then hit that hew
growth with glyphosate it is translocated most effectively.

I cleared a large rockery completely over a single season a few years ago.
Every time the roots demand food, feed them glyphosate!

pk

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:

Don't even think of digging out the ground elder unless you have the
patience of a saint and a back of iron!

I find it dead easy in a vegetable patch. It rarely goes down further
than 6" and is fairly obvious. It is a right pain in the middle of
herbaceous plants and shrubs, though, as well as where it can run
under paving slabs etc.

The odd bit breaks off and regrows. I find the best approach is a combination of
chemical hits with glyphosate about once a month and strimming after a fortnight.
The remains can be dug out and are so weakened that any bits you miss are unable
to regrow. Never let it get any decent leaves in sunlight and starve the roots
out.

With an active vegetable patch, you can remove all the bits you see
when you dig it over (typically twice a year), and then remove bits
that regrow by hand with as much root as possible without disturbing
the vegetables. I find that it goes within a couple of years like
that, with little extra effort.

Of course, starting from a badly infested plot, I used your method.
I can believe that the carpet/black polythene trick works, too, and
you can also kill it with grass if there is enough light. I am
currently expanding my vegetable patch a little, and will see how
I do just digging - but I shall be planting potatoes there!

Enough to clear herbaceous borders in a season. Just needs a steady hand to apply
the weedkiller. Or patience to go round lopping off all its leaves.

I have tried that a couple of times, and failed. Not dismally, but
I still failed. With bindweed, I failed dismally.

Horsetail is much much worse. Moving house is the only solution to that stuff!

That I can believe. My garden is too dry for it, thank heavens.

On the edge of a lawn even repeated close crop mowing will get it.

The key there is light. It is a woodland plant, and will compete
with grass in shade, but rapidly gets swamped in open conditions.
We cut back a looming holly, and the ground elder has almost gone
in 8 months with no further effort.

I wonder if the type of soil plays a part. I have never found ground elder that
much of a problem. It can be defeated in only a couple of years. I find bindweed
and especially horsetail pretty much indestructible.

It does, but more for bindweed and horsetail. The former prefers light
soils and the latter heavier, though it is really a preference for the
amount of water.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

In article , Martin Brown
writes


Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
Paul Kelly wrote:


Compare it with field bindweed, which I have posted before is a New
Zealand plant that has grown downwards :-( Horsetail is similar.

Horsetail is much much worse. Moving house is the only solution to that stuff!

A few years back I came across a few shoots of horsetail just near the
hedge and into the lawn. I was filled with panic! Anyway, I pulled the
shoots up (they broke just below ground level) and thought 'well, at
least I'll make sure it doesn't spread'. And I did that every time I saw
a bit.

Last year I waited for it to reappear, and it didn't.

Mind, that was only a tiny bit - I wonder if it can be controlled
provided it hasn't already got a good hold?


I wonder if the type of soil plays a part. I have never found ground elder that
much of a problem. It can be defeated in only a couple of years. I find bindweed
and especially horsetail pretty much indestructible.

That could be the answer to my horsetail. We're on wet clay. Bindweed is
always with me, but it doesn't bother me - I just heave it off plants
where I'd rather it wasn't, leave it in the hedge, or not, as the mood
takes me. The thing that is driving me potty is dandelions - I have
stopped putting them on the compost heap and bin them instead. And the
small willowherb.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

In article , Nick Maclaren
writes

It does, but more for bindweed and horsetail. The former prefers light
soils and the latter heavier, though it is really a preference for the
amount of water.

Are we talking the big white bindweed here or the little pink one? I
know the little pink one seems to like quite dry soils, but the big
white one is very happy in my wet soil.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

ps btw the only thing I can think of that grows to 11/2 feet and can
compete
with Ground elder is Japanese knotweed (;-) Sorry, couldn't resist!



I've got that already, sighhhhhhh:-)

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

In article ,
Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes

It does, but more for bindweed and horsetail. The former prefers light
soils and the latter heavier, though it is really a preference for the
amount of water.

Are we talking the big white bindweed here or the little pink one? I
know the little pink one seems to like quite dry soils, but the big
white one is very happy in my wet soil.

The little pink one. The big white one grows here, but isn't a serious
weed - in particular, it weakens very fast if you keep cutting it down.
This is why the little pink one is called field bindweed and the large
white one hedge bindweed - the latter will not survive long in fields.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes

It does, but more for bindweed and horsetail. The former prefers light
soils and the latter heavier, though it is really a preference for the
amount of water.

Are we talking the big white bindweed here or the little pink one? I
know the little pink one seems to like quite dry soils, but the big
white one is very happy in my wet soil.

The little pink one.

Fascinating. The only one that gives me trouble here (on heavy clay) is the
big white one.
I can even afford to let small amounts of the pink field bindweed grow as an
ornamental.

The big white one grows here, but isn't a serious
weed - in particular, it weakens very fast if you keep cutting it down.

Not here it doesn't. It is the big white climbing one that can hide inside
established shrubs that gives me the most trouble. Easy enough to see off in
open ground but a real PITA in established borders.

This is why the little pink one is called field bindweed and the large
white one hedge bindweed - the latter will not survive long in fields.

Both would be nice plants if they weren't invasive. I grow their more
colourful tropical cousins intentionally.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

In article , Martin Brown
writes


Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes

It does, but more for bindweed and horsetail. The former prefers light
soils and the latter heavier, though it is really a preference for the
amount of water.

Are we talking the big white bindweed here or the little pink one? I
know the little pink one seems to like quite dry soils, but the big
white one is very happy in my wet soil.

The little pink one.

Fascinating. The only one that gives me trouble here (on heavy clay) is the
big white one.

Yes, on clay, like you, I have trouble with the white one. Though
pulling out a yard and a half of thick root in one go is very satisfying
:-)

I can even afford to let small amounts of the pink field bindweed grow as an
ornamental.

Lucky you! Despite introducing it, I can't get it to grow at all!
I love the scent of it.


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

In article , Annabel
writes

ps btw the only thing I can think of that grows to 11/2 feet and can
compete
with Ground elder is Japanese knotweed (;-) Sorry, couldn't resist!



I've got that already, sighhhhhhh:-)

So've I. I thought I'd be safe growing it in a foot wide gap between
garage and stone wall - I'd be able to control it at roof height.

In fact, I was safer than I thought - after 4 years, it is *still* only
15 inches high!


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

In article ,
Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Martin Brown
writes
Nick Maclaren wrote:

Are we talking the big white bindweed here or the little pink one? I
know the little pink one seems to like quite dry soils, but the big
white one is very happy in my wet soil.

The little pink one.

Fascinating. The only one that gives me trouble here (on heavy clay) is the
big white one.

Yes, on clay, like you, I have trouble with the white one. Though
pulling out a yard and a half of thick root in one go is very satisfying
:-)

I can even afford to let small amounts of the pink field bindweed grow as an
ornamental.

Lucky you! Despite introducing it, I can't get it to grow at all!
I love the scent of it.

I think we have some fairly convincing evidence (though not, of course,
proof) of soil dependence!

It would be extremely interesting to see a botanical/horticultural book
on weed issues in the UK, describing the circumstances under which
particular species are likely to be a pest. There is a lot more to
this topic than most people realise.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

In article , Nick Maclaren
writes

It would be extremely interesting to see a botanical/horticultural book
on weed issues in the UK, describing the circumstances under which
particular species are likely to be a pest. There is a lot more to
this topic than most people realise.

There was a mini-thread in urg a few years ago on what 'weeds' people
had most trouble with. It's not just native species, of course, it's
also the invasive introductions (himalayan balsam, japanese knowtweed,
Rhododendron ponticum) and even the more robust garden plants - Sacha
has laid herself open to us N gardeners by expressing a desire for
Alchemilla mollis. And od other gardens uproot wholesale aquilegia and
Malva moschata?
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

In article ,
Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes

It would be extremely interesting to see a botanical/horticultural book
on weed issues in the UK, describing the circumstances under which
particular species are likely to be a pest. There is a lot more to
this topic than most people realise.

There was a mini-thread in urg a few years ago on what 'weeds' people
had most trouble with. It's not just native species, of course, it's
also the invasive introductions (himalayan balsam, japanese knowtweed,
Rhododendron ponticum) and even the more robust garden plants - Sacha
has laid herself open to us N gardeners by expressing a desire for
Alchemilla mollis. And od other gardens uproot wholesale aquilegia and
Malva moschata?

Yes, it's a hardy perennial!

Some, like R. ponticum, are well-known to be condition-specific; others
probably are, but the details are less clear.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

On Sat, 05 Apr 2003 09:19:28 GMT, Martin Brown
wrotc:


This is why the little pink one is called field bindweed and the large
white one hedge bindweed - the latter will not survive long in fields.

Both would be nice plants if they weren't invasive. I grow their more
colourful tropical cousins intentionally.

I think it was last year that I picked up from the nearby Victorian
Gardens (honesty box set-up) a couple of plants tagged in their
whimsical way "blue convolvulus". Having had past battles with hedge
bindweed (and won), I was a little nervous of introducing another
convolvulus. However so far it seems very well behaved, tidy and the
above ground foliage and flowers seems to do the sprawling and the
roots not so much. I know exactly where they are and they get a degree
of attentiveness because the flowers are so pretty. Even so I will
probably remove any seedlings which emerge in their vicinity looking
like convolvulus. I suppose I should try and identify it more
precisely at some point.

Just had a go. They could be mauritanicus or althaeoides. I won't
know for sure until it flowers again.

On the subject of pretty little plants I am currently marvelling at
a recently purchased Anemone apenina albiflora. I have also
transferred some A. nemorosa seeds out of the deep freeze and into the
cold frame. Can it be invasive?

Hussein
Grow a little garden

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

"Kay Easton" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes

It would be extremely interesting to see a botanical/horticultural book
on weed issues in the UK, describing the circumstances under which
particular species are likely to be a pest. There is a lot more to
this topic than most people realise.

There was a mini-thread in urg a few years ago on what 'weeds' people
had most trouble with. It's not just native species, of course, it's
also the invasive introductions (himalayan balsam, japanese knowtweed,
Rhododendron ponticum) and even the more robust garden plants - Sacha
has laid herself open to us N gardeners by expressing a desire for
Alchemilla mollis. And od other gardens uproot wholesale aquilegia and
Malva moschata?

Aquilegia will never be a weed in our garden, but not because of the soil -
a little highly choosy caterpillar eats it to the ground. I should mention
that the climate just south of Paris is nearly but not quite OT.

Regards

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

It was a dark and stormy night, and as the people of uk.rec.gardening
huddled around the fire, Martin Brown told them this story:

Most things that can grow and ignore it are shrubs, but ISTR one of the marigold
family produces its own herbicide and is supposed to be able to take the stuff on
and win. I've not tried it myself.

According to
http://www.e-garden.co.uk/index.asp?...&categoryID=70
Mexican marigold keeps it at bay. Though it also says that
it's ugly and smells awful, so I might just stick with the
ground elder.

(My trouble is that it comes in from next door (the single
one of our six immediate neighbours who does nothing with
their garden) and so I can never get rid of it completely.)

Rhiannon

Ground elder & plants to grow with it
 

Rhiannon Macfie Miller wrote:

It was a dark and stormy night, and as the people of uk.rec.gardening
huddled around the fire, Martin Brown told them this story:

Most things that can grow and ignore it are shrubs, but ISTR one of the marigold
family produces its own herbicide and is supposed to be able to take the stuff on
and win. I've not tried it myself.

According to
http://www.e-garden.co.uk/index.asp?...&categoryID=70
Mexican marigold keeps it at bay. Though it also says that
it's ugly and smells awful, so I might just stick with the
ground elder.

(My trouble is that it comes in from next door (the single
one of our six immediate neighbours who does nothing with
their garden) and so I can never get rid of it completely.)

It is fairly shallow rooted so you can put 12" slates into the soil down the boundary
line and pretty much prevent further ingress. I have never really had much bother with
it. Just spot weed new leaves as they appear and never let it set seed. You need
patience to exhaust the extensive stored energy in the roots. That is why a combination
of chemical attack and digging out works so well. YMMV

Regards,
Martin Brown