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Is there ANYTHING....
.....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?! I have
battled with a bank next to a stream for four years, trying to dig them out and keep them cut. Now there are mice near a waterfall (which I don't want to poison - cat and barn owls), coypu coming and going, the dog has joined in the digging trying to get at the mice and the whole thing is becoming more and more of a mess! I've just cleaned it all up again as well as I can. Trying to keep membrane/polythene in place would be a nightmare, the bank is steep and the dog and various wildlife will root it up. So...either I plant some very aggressive ground-cover or I think I'm going to have to resort to Roundup for as long as necessary. Any ideas please anyone? East facing bank, mostly sunny, never dries out, floods half way up a couple of times a year. TIA -- Holly, in France Gite to let in Dordogne, now with pool. http://la-plaine.chez-alice.fr |
Is there ANYTHING....
Holly, in France wrote: ....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?! I have battled with a bank next to a stream for four years, trying to dig them out and keep them cut. Now there are mice near a waterfall (which I don't want to poison - cat and barn owls), coypu coming and going, the dog has joined in the digging trying to get at the mice and the whole thing is becoming more and more of a mess! I've just cleaned it all up again as well as I can. Trying to keep membrane/polythene in place would be a nightmare, the bank is steep and the dog and various wildlife will root it up. So...either I plant some very aggressive ground-cover or I think I'm going to have to resort to Roundup for as long as necessary. Any ideas please anyone? East facing bank, mostly sunny, never dries out, floods half way up a couple of times a year. Going at it, cutting them and digging them out will eventually kill them off. It seems you've done this with no results. I am horrified to read that you would result in using chemicals on the banks of a stream, with owls, mice and other animals living near by. Why do you want to get the nettles out? Doesn't this help the banks to stay put, minimising erosion, contributing to the ecological habitat of all the creetures around you? Now, if you were to dig it all out to plant a salix say, perhaps that would very much stop the brambles and nettles - clear all that site once and for all and you would end up with a very nice area. But don't use the chemicals please Holly :o) |
Is there ANYTHING....
"Holly, in France" wrote in message ... ....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?! Yes. Japanese knotweed. Good luck. Steve |
Is there ANYTHING....
shazzbat wrote:
"Holly, in France" wrote in message ... ....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?! Yes. Japanese knotweed. I have never actually seen this, but I think I'll give it a miss :-) -- Holly, in France Gite to let in Dordogne, now with pool. http://la-plaine.chez-alice.fr |
Is there ANYTHING....
La Puce wrote:
Holly, in France wrote: ....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?! I have battled with a bank next to a stream for four years, trying to dig them out and keep them cut. Now there are mice near a waterfall (which I don't want to poison - cat and barn owls), coypu coming and going, the dog has joined in the digging trying to get at the mice and the whole thing is becoming more and more of a mess! I've just cleaned it all up again as well as I can. Trying to keep membrane/polythene in place would be a nightmare, the bank is steep and the dog and various wildlife will root it up. So...either I plant some very aggressive ground-cover or I think I'm going to have to resort to Roundup for as long as necessary. Any ideas please anyone? East facing bank, mostly sunny, never dries out, floods half way up a couple of times a year. Going at it, cutting them and digging them out will eventually kill them off. It seems you've done this with no results. The reason it hasn't worked is that I can't get all the roots out because the bank is so steep and just falls apart, the topsoil falling down the bank. Elsewhere it has worked, in smallish areas. I am horrified to read that you would result in using chemicals on the banks of a stream, with owls, mice and other animals living near by. I don't want to, hence having tried to do it manually first. Why do you want to get the nettles out? Doesn't this help the banks to stay put, minimising erosion, contributing to the ecological habitat of all the creetures around you? Yes, it does, I agree completely. But I have literally acres of nettles, brambles and excellent wildlife habitat, lots more banks of lakes, streams and river which are left completely wild up and downstream of here. This bit of bank is just alongside the house. The bit I would prefer to look 'pretty', or at least not desperately untidy, is only about 15m long and about 2m high. There is another smaller area of 'rockery' opposite it with which I am also fighting an ongoing losing battle, but will continue with that because there are nice plants in there too. Now, if you were to dig it all out to plant a salix say, perhaps that would very much stop the brambles and nettles - clear all that site once and for all and you would end up with a very nice area. Mmm. Yes, a few small weeping salix might be OK there and would probably grow and fill out quickly enough for me to keep on top of the undergrowth in the short term. But I don't think there are any short enough. If they were too tall they would block the view of the lake, a peninsula with nice shrubs and the flood plain across the river. Planted half way up though, possibly, I'll think about that one. -- Holly, in France Gite to let in Dordogne, now with pool. http://la-plaine.chez-alice.fr |
Is there ANYTHING....
Sacha wrote:
On 14/3/06 10:20 am, in article , "Holly, in France" wrote: ....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?! I have battled with a bank next to a stream for four years, trying to dig them out and keep them cut. Now there are mice near a waterfall (which I don't want to poison - cat and barn owls), coypu coming and going, the dog has joined in the digging trying to get at the mice and the whole thing is becoming more and more of a mess! I've just cleaned it all up again as well as I can. Trying to keep membrane/polythene in place would be a nightmare, the bank is steep and the dog and various wildlife will root it up. So...either I plant some very aggressive ground-cover or I think I'm going to have to resort to Roundup for as long as necessary. Any ideas please anyone? East facing bank, mostly sunny, never dries out, floods half way up a couple of times a year. TIA Can you put the tips of brambles into either tins filled with weedkiller or safely sealed into plastic bags ditto? It's a problem with animals around, I know but this should do it, though it will take some time. Yes, good idea, that would be a better start than doing the whole lot, and the brambles are much more of a problem than the nettles. Of course, some nettles are desirable because of butterflies Aaargh! :-) Yes, but see my reply to Puce, I have enough nettles to feed an army or insert appropriate collective noun for butterflies of butterflies! and I was told once that they are an indication of good, fertile soil! Well, this particular soil is good and fertile, but IME they seem to thrive absolutely everywhere. -- Holly, in France Gite to let in Dordogne, now with pool. http://la-plaine.chez-alice.fr |
Is there ANYTHING....
On 14/3/06 11:21 am, in article , "Holly, in
France" wrote: snip Re nettles: Well, this particular soil is good and fertile, but IME they seem to thrive absolutely everywhere. Try the same thing with weedkiller in a plastic bag and secure the neck of the bag tightly. Wear gloves - but you'd already thought of that, hadn't you?! ;-) -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon ) |
Is there ANYTHING....
On 14/3/06 11:52 am, in article ,
"Janet Baraclough" wrote: On 14/3/06 10:20 am, in article , "Holly, in France" wrote: ....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?! I have battled with a bank next to a stream for four years, trying to dig them out and keep them cut. snip In your shoes I would be very, very wary of destabilising that bank by clearing the plantlife with roundup. When banks crumble, rivers can change direction very fast and very unpredicatably with immensely expensive and inconvenient results for yourself, and maybe others (for which you might be liable). With climate change, some people here who have enjoyed their harmless little garden waterway for decades are now suffering chaos from flashfloods. Before any DIY alterations to that fragile balance, I'd get some expert, specialist local advice. Very good points there. Maybe Holly has to live with the brambles at least for a while longer, just keeping them cut right back. And think of the old saying "when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade", applying the words 'bramble' and 'jelly' where appropriate! In more serious vein, it might be worth her while investigating whether the bank could be stabilised in some other way, using grasses etc. There, though, the problem is going to be introducing them without removing the brambles and destabilsing the bank. Hmmmm. -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon ) |
Is there ANYTHING....
Holly, in France wrote: Yes, it does, I agree completely. But I have literally acres of nettles, brambles and excellent wildlife habitat, lots more banks of lakes, streams and river which are left completely wild up and downstream of here. This bit of bank is just alongside the house. The bit I would prefer to look 'pretty', or at least not desperately untidy, is only about 15m long and about 2m high. There is another smaller area of 'rockery' opposite it with which I am also fighting an ongoing losing battle, but will continue with that because there are nice plants in there too. Mmm. Yes, a few small weeping salix might be OK there and would probably grow and fill out quickly enough for me to keep on top of the undergrowth in the short term. But I don't think there are any short enough. If they were too tall they would block the view of the lake, a peninsula with nice shrubs and the flood plain across the river. Planted half way up though, possibly, I'll think about that one. HOoooo ... this sound like a reocuring dream of mine, a nice one, one of those I don't want to ever stop :o)) Lucky you. Beside the nettles off course. Mulch thickly, around anything new you plant. Little bits of roots will always stay behind from the brambles and nettles, but eventually, with the lack of lights they will go. Coppice the salix? Make baskets? A new business!! ;o) |
Is there ANYTHING....
"Holly, in France" wrote in message ... ....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?! I have battled with a bank next to a stream for four years, trying to dig them out and keep them cut. Bearing in mind something I was reading the other day. You're quite certain are you that all these various - unwelcome though they may be - roots aren't contributing to the structural integrity of the bank ? That they're not the only things that are preventing the bank from crumbling away into the stream ? Now there are mice near a waterfall (which I don't want to poison - cat and barn owls), coypu coming and going, the dog has joined in the digging trying to get at the mice and the whole thing is becoming more and more of a mess! I've just cleaned it all up again as well as I can. Trying to keep membrane/polythene in place would be a nightmare, the bank is steep and the dog and various wildlife will root it up. So...either I plant some very aggressive ground-cover or I think I'm going to have to resort to Roundup for as long as necessary. Any ideas please anyone? East facing bank, mostly sunny, never dries out, floods half way up a couple of times a year. I'm not an expert, but possibly see above? Would more of the bank be being washed away with each successive flood, without these roots there to provide solidity ? michael adams .... TIA -- Holly, in France Gite to let in Dordogne, now with pool. http://la-plaine.chez-alice.fr |
Is there ANYTHING....
On 14/3/06 2:15 pm, in article
, "La Puce" wrote: Holly, in France wrote: Mmm. Yes, a few small weeping salix might be OK there and would probably grow and fill out quickly enough for me to keep on top of the undergrowth in the short term. But I don't think there are any short enough. If they were too tall they would block the view of the lake, a peninsula with nice shrubs and the flood plain across the river. Planted half way up though, possibly, I'll think about that one. (I thought I had responded back to you ... my jalousie for your house/garden/life has made me dizzy ;o) Mulch. There. Mulch and mulch after putting whatever new you need to put there. The salix could then be coppiced ... and you could offer basket making workshops to your customers. A new business :o) The river floods half way up in winter. The mulch will be washed away, possibly along with half the bank and the new trees, as Michael and Janet have properly pointed out. Somehow and if at all possible, Holly needs to do something to preserve the structural integrity of the bank before she plants it and before she gets rid of what's holding it together - the network of bramble and nettle roots. Failure to do that could mean she ends up with rather more of a water garden than she'd anticipated. -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon ) |
Is there ANYTHING....
The message .com
from "La Puce" contains these words: Mulch. There. Mulch and mulch after putting whatever new you need to put there. The salix could then be coppiced ... and you could offer basket making workshops to your customers. A new business :o) Just so long as it's not crack willow, and something like S. viminalis. -- Rusty Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk Separator in search of a sig |
Is there ANYTHING....long
Sacha wrote:
On 14/3/06 11:52 am, in article , "Janet Baraclough" wrote: On 14/3/06 10:20 am, in article , "Holly, in France" wrote: ....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?! I have battled with a bank next to a stream for four years, trying to dig them out and keep them cut. snip In your shoes I would be very, very wary of destabilising that bank by clearing the plantlife with roundup. When banks crumble, rivers can change direction very fast and very unpredicatably with immensely expensive and inconvenient results for yourself, and maybe others (for which you might be liable). With climate change, some people here who have enjoyed their harmless little garden waterway for decades are now suffering chaos from flashfloods. Before any DIY alterations to that fragile balance, I'd get some expert, specialist local advice. Very good points there. Maybe Holly has to live with the brambles at least for a while longer, just keeping them cut right back. And think of the old saying "when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade", applying the words 'bramble' and 'jelly' where appropriate! In more serious vein, it might be worth her while investigating whether the bank could be stabilised in some other way, using grasses etc. There, though, the problem is going to be introducing them without removing the brambles and destabilsing the bank. Hmmmm. Thanks for everyone's comments. I'll try to reply to them all in one go. Yes, the bank needs something to keep it stable, and what I was hoping to do was to replace the brambles and nettles with something more attractive, as Sacha suggests. Also I forgot to mention there is bracken at the bottom which is quite attractive and can stay there. You're right too that mulch won't work, mainly because it will just fall off! There is another area downstream a bit from the area I am working on here where some of bank was less steep and some was about the same as part of this bit. The mulch, not terribly well rotted farmyard manure, worked well and got some shrubs established on the less steep part, but when it dried out on the steeper bit and was picked at and trampled by birds and dog it just worked it's way down the slope. More was lost from the lower areas when the river level rose. Most of this current section is steeper still so mulch is a non-starter. The erosion during flooding is not as bad as people are imagining. This bank is on the millstream and in normal conditions very little water goes along it. During floods the flow increases maybe about fourfold but it's still not a huge amount of water flowing along. What happens is that the main river floods dramatically and water levels rise so the water backs up the millstream to the same level. Also, this bit of the millstream is just above a little bridge with a concrete pipe of about 3' diameter taking the water through, so that also limits the flow of water above it. Hope that makes sense, if not you'll just have to believe me :-) So really I think the bank needs something to stabilise it much as any other bank would, the water doesn't make that much difference other than whatever is planted on it will have to survive a few days submersion in water a couple of times a year. Janet is right about the flooding and the river changing course, it is noticeable from old and even not very old maps that this has happened over the years. An old cart track now disappears into the river. There is an island at the end of our peninsula which we and our current neighbour regard as ours but it isn't where it appears on the map. Another island further down has almost disappeared. The neighbour is in the process of selling and if the purchaser makes a fuss over exact boundaries they will have to get surveys done and maps redrawn. We'll cross that (rope!) bridge if we come to it :-) Good point too about not introducing anything invasive. I have been careful not to do this anywhere on the river/lake system. Good point too about the coypu destroying the banks. Mostly they come and go but don't try to set up home too near to the house, which is where the banks between the lakes and stream are most vunerable. If they do we trap them and rehome them upstream a bit, which I know is interfering with them but IMO better than shooting them. Anyway, they have interfered with my bullrushes almost to the point of extinction! -- Holly, in France Gite to let in Dordogne, now with pool. http://la-plaine.chez-alice.fr |
Is there ANYTHING....
Rusty Hinge 2 wrote:
The message .com from "La Puce" contains these words: Mulch. There. Won't work, see other reply. Mulch and mulch after putting whatever new you need to put there. The salix could then be coppiced ... and you could offer basket making workshops to your customers. A new business :o) Basket making, you must be joking! I am helping run a building business, looking after the house, the gite, four children, two horses, a dog, a swimming pool, a garden and a polytunnel, cutting a couple of acres of grass and trying to keep the rest of the place in some sort of order! Maybe when I retire :-) Just so long as it's not crack willow, and something like S. viminalis. I'm not at all sure about this willow idea, but it's a thought. Do you know of a weeping type willow which doesn't grow very big? The only ones I have seen are ornamental ones allowed to grow and chopped off at the top so that they weep from there. Nice in the right situation but not suitable for here, I need something natural looking. -- Holly, in France Gite to let in Dordogne, now with pool. http://la-plaine.chez-alice.fr |
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