.....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?! I have
battled with a bank next to a stream for four years, trying to dig them
out and keep them cut. Now there are mice near a waterfall (which I
don't want to poison - cat and barn owls), coypu coming and going, the
dog has joined in the digging trying to get at the mice and the whole
thing is becoming more and more of a mess! I've just cleaned it all up
again as well as I can. Trying to keep membrane/polythene in place would
be a nightmare, the bank is steep and the dog and various wildlife will
root it up. So...either I plant some very aggressive ground-cover or I
think I'm going to have to resort to Roundup for as long as necessary.
Any ideas please anyone? East facing bank, mostly sunny, never dries
out, floods half way up a couple of times a year.
TIA

--
Holly, in France
Gite to let in Dordogne, now with pool.
http://la-plaine.chez-alice.fr

On 14/3/06 10:20 am, in article , "Holly, in
France" wrote:

....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?! I have
battled with a bank next to a stream for four years, trying to dig them
out and keep them cut. Now there are mice near a waterfall (which I
don't want to poison - cat and barn owls), coypu coming and going, the
dog has joined in the digging trying to get at the mice and the whole
thing is becoming more and more of a mess! I've just cleaned it all up
again as well as I can. Trying to keep membrane/polythene in place would
be a nightmare, the bank is steep and the dog and various wildlife will
root it up. So...either I plant some very aggressive ground-cover or I
think I'm going to have to resort to Roundup for as long as necessary.
Any ideas please anyone? East facing bank, mostly sunny, never dries
out, floods half way up a couple of times a year.
TIA

Can you put the tips of brambles into either tins filled with weedkiller or
safely sealed into plastic bags ditto? It's a problem with animals around,
I know but this should do it, though it will take some time. Of course,
some nettles are desirable because of butterflies and I was told once that
they are an indication of good, fertile soil!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
)

Holly, in France wrote:
....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?! I have
battled with a bank next to a stream for four years, trying to dig them
out and keep them cut. Now there are mice near a waterfall (which I
don't want to poison - cat and barn owls), coypu coming and going, the
dog has joined in the digging trying to get at the mice and the whole
thing is becoming more and more of a mess! I've just cleaned it all up
again as well as I can. Trying to keep membrane/polythene in place would
be a nightmare, the bank is steep and the dog and various wildlife will
root it up. So...either I plant some very aggressive ground-cover or I
think I'm going to have to resort to Roundup for as long as necessary.
Any ideas please anyone? East facing bank, mostly sunny, never dries
out, floods half way up a couple of times a year.

Going at it, cutting them and digging them out will eventually kill
them off. It seems you've done this with no results. I am horrified to
read that you would result in using chemicals on the banks of a stream,
with owls, mice and other animals living near by. Why do you want to
get the nettles out? Doesn't this help the banks to stay put,
minimising erosion, contributing to the ecological habitat of all the
creetures around you?

Now, if you were to dig it all out to plant a salix say, perhaps that
would very much stop the brambles and nettles - clear all that site
once and for all and you would end up with a very nice area. But don't
use the chemicals please Holly )

"Holly, in France" wrote in message
...
....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?!

Yes. Japanese knotweed.

Good luck.

Steve

shazzbat wrote:
"Holly, in France" wrote in message
...
....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?!

Yes. Japanese knotweed.

I have never actually seen this, but I think I'll give it a miss :-)

--
Holly, in France
Gite to let in Dordogne, now with pool.
http://la-plaine.chez-alice.fr

La Puce wrote:
Holly, in France wrote:
....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?! I
have battled with a bank next to a stream for four years, trying to
dig them out and keep them cut. Now there are mice near a waterfall
(which I don't want to poison - cat and barn owls), coypu coming and
going, the dog has joined in the digging trying to get at the mice
and the whole thing is becoming more and more of a mess! I've just
cleaned it all up again as well as I can. Trying to keep
membrane/polythene in place would be a nightmare, the bank is steep
and the dog and various wildlife will root it up. So...either I
plant some very aggressive ground-cover or I think I'm going to have
to resort to Roundup for as long as necessary. Any ideas please
anyone? East facing bank, mostly sunny, never dries out, floods half
way up a couple of times a year.

Going at it, cutting them and digging them out will eventually kill
them off. It seems you've done this with no results.

The reason it hasn't worked is that I can't get all the roots out
because the bank is so steep and just falls apart, the topsoil falling
down the bank. Elsewhere it has worked, in smallish areas.

I am horrified to
read that you would result in using chemicals on the banks of a
stream, with owls, mice and other animals living near by.

I don't want to, hence having tried to do it manually first.

Why do you want to
get the nettles out? Doesn't this help the banks to stay put,
minimising erosion, contributing to the ecological habitat of all the
creetures around you?

Yes, it does, I agree completely. But I have literally acres of nettles,
brambles and excellent wildlife habitat, lots more banks of lakes,
streams and river which are left completely wild up and downstream of
here. This bit of bank is just alongside the house. The bit I would
prefer to look 'pretty', or at least not desperately untidy, is only
about 15m long and about 2m high. There is another smaller area of
'rockery' opposite it with which I am also fighting an ongoing losing
battle, but will continue with that because there are nice plants in
there too.

Now, if you were to dig it all out to plant a salix say, perhaps that
would very much stop the brambles and nettles - clear all that site
once and for all and you would end up with a very nice area.

Mmm. Yes, a few small weeping salix might be OK there and would probably
grow and fill out quickly enough for me to keep on top of the
undergrowth in the short term. But I don't think there are any short
enough. If they were too tall they would block the view of the lake, a
peninsula with nice shrubs and the flood plain across the river. Planted
half way up though, possibly, I'll think about that one.

--
Holly, in France
Gite to let in Dordogne, now with pool.
http://la-plaine.chez-alice.fr

Sacha wrote:
On 14/3/06 10:20 am, in article ,
"Holly, in France" wrote:

....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?! I
have battled with a bank next to a stream for four years, trying to
dig them out and keep them cut. Now there are mice near a waterfall
(which I don't want to poison - cat and barn owls), coypu coming and
going, the dog has joined in the digging trying to get at the mice
and the whole thing is becoming more and more of a mess! I've just
cleaned it all up again as well as I can. Trying to keep
membrane/polythene in place would be a nightmare, the bank is steep
and the dog and various wildlife will root it up. So...either I
plant some very aggressive ground-cover or I think I'm going to have
to resort to Roundup for as long as necessary. Any ideas please
anyone? East facing bank, mostly sunny, never dries out, floods half
way up a couple of times a year.
TIA

Can you put the tips of brambles into either tins filled with
weedkiller or safely sealed into plastic bags ditto? It's a problem
with animals around, I know but this should do it, though it will
take some time.

Yes, good idea, that would be a better start than doing the whole lot,
and the brambles are much more of a problem than the nettles.

Of course, some nettles are desirable because of butterflies

Aaargh! :-) Yes, but see my reply to Puce, I have enough nettles to feed
an army or insert appropriate collective noun for butterflies of
butterflies!

and I was told once that they are an indication of good,
fertile soil!

Well, this particular soil is good and fertile, but IME they seem to
thrive absolutely everywhere.

--
Holly, in France
Gite to let in Dordogne, now with pool.
http://la-plaine.chez-alice.fr

On 14/3/06 11:21 am, in article , "Holly, in
France" wrote:

snip

Re nettles:

Well, this particular soil is good and fertile, but IME they seem to
thrive absolutely everywhere.

Try the same thing with weedkiller in a plastic bag and secure the neck of
the bag tightly. Wear gloves - but you'd already thought of that, hadn't
you?! ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
)

On 14/3/06 11:52 am, in article ,
"Janet Baraclough" wrote:



On 14/3/06 10:20 am, in article , "Holly, in
France" wrote:

....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?! I have
battled with a bank next to a stream for four years, trying to dig them
out and keep them cut.
snip
In your shoes I would be very, very wary of destabilising that bank
by clearing the plantlife with roundup. When banks crumble, rivers can
change direction very fast and very unpredicatably with immensely
expensive and inconvenient results for yourself, and maybe others (for
which you might be liable). With climate change, some people here who
have enjoyed their harmless little garden waterway for decades are now
suffering chaos from flashfloods.

Before any DIY alterations to that fragile balance, I'd get some
expert, specialist local advice.

Very good points there. Maybe Holly has to live with the brambles at least
for a while longer, just keeping them cut right back. And think of the old
saying "when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade", applying the words
'bramble' and 'jelly' where appropriate! In more serious vein, it might be
worth her while investigating whether the bank could be stabilised in some
other way, using grasses etc. There, though, the problem is going to be
introducing them without removing the brambles and destabilsing the bank.
Hmmmm.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
)

Holly, in France wrote:
Yes, it does, I agree completely. But I have literally acres of nettles,
brambles and excellent wildlife habitat, lots more banks of lakes,
streams and river which are left completely wild up and downstream of
here. This bit of bank is just alongside the house. The bit I would
prefer to look 'pretty', or at least not desperately untidy, is only
about 15m long and about 2m high. There is another smaller area of
'rockery' opposite it with which I am also fighting an ongoing losing
battle, but will continue with that because there are nice plants in
there too.
Mmm. Yes, a few small weeping salix might be OK there and would probably
grow and fill out quickly enough for me to keep on top of the
undergrowth in the short term. But I don't think there are any short
enough. If they were too tall they would block the view of the lake, a
peninsula with nice shrubs and the flood plain across the river. Planted
half way up though, possibly, I'll think about that one.

HOoooo ... this sound like a reocuring dream of mine, a nice one, one
of those I don't want to ever stop ))

Lucky you. Beside the nettles off course. Mulch thickly, around
anything new you plant. Little bits of roots will always stay behind
from the brambles and nettles, but eventually, with the lack of lights
they will go. Coppice the salix? Make baskets? A new business!! ;o)

"Holly, in France" wrote in message
...

....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?!
I have battled with a bank next to a stream for four years, trying
to dig them out and keep them cut.

Bearing in mind something I was reading the other day. You're
quite certain are you that all these various - unwelcome
though they may be - roots aren't contributing to the structural
integrity of the bank ? That they're not the only things that are
preventing the bank from crumbling away into the stream ?

Now there are mice near a waterfall (which I
don't want to poison - cat and barn owls), coypu coming and going, the
dog has joined in the digging trying to get at the mice and the whole
thing is becoming more and more of a mess! I've just cleaned it all up
again as well as I can. Trying to keep membrane/polythene in place would
be a nightmare, the bank is steep and the dog and various wildlife will
root it up. So...either I plant some very aggressive ground-cover or I
think I'm going to have to resort to Roundup for as long as necessary.
Any ideas please anyone?
East facing bank, mostly sunny, never dries out,

floods half way up a couple of times a year.

I'm not an expert, but possibly see above? Would more of the bank be being
washed away with each successive flood, without these roots there to provide
solidity ?


michael adams

....


TIA

--
Holly, in France
Gite to let in Dordogne, now with pool.
http://la-plaine.chez-alice.fr

On 14/3/06 2:15 pm, in article
, "La Puce"
wrote:


Holly, in France wrote:
Mmm. Yes, a few small weeping salix might be OK there and would probably
grow and fill out quickly enough for me to keep on top of the
undergrowth in the short term. But I don't think there are any short
enough. If they were too tall they would block the view of the lake, a
peninsula with nice shrubs and the flood plain across the river. Planted
half way up though, possibly, I'll think about that one.

(I thought I had responded back to you ... my jalousie for your
house/garden/life has made me dizzy ;o)

Mulch. There. Mulch and mulch after putting whatever new you need to
put there. The salix could then be coppiced ... and you could offer
basket making workshops to your customers. A new business )

The river floods half way up in winter. The mulch will be washed away,
possibly along with half the bank and the new trees, as Michael and Janet
have properly pointed out. Somehow and if at all possible, Holly needs to
do something to preserve the structural integrity of the bank before she
plants it and before she gets rid of what's holding it together - the
network of bramble and nettle roots. Failure to do that could mean she ends
up with rather more of a water garden than she'd anticipated.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
)

The message .com
from "La Puce" contains these words:

Mulch. There. Mulch and mulch after putting whatever new you need to
put there. The salix could then be coppiced ... and you could offer
basket making workshops to your customers. A new business )


Just so long as it's not crack willow, and something like S. viminalis.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

Sacha wrote:
On 14/3/06 11:52 am, in article
, "Janet Baraclough"
wrote:



On 14/3/06 10:20 am, in article ,
"Holly, in France" wrote:

....anything at all that will out-compete brambles and nettles?! I
have battled with a bank next to a stream for four years, trying
to dig them out and keep them cut.
snip
In your shoes I would be very, very wary of destabilising that bank
by clearing the plantlife with roundup. When banks crumble, rivers
can change direction very fast and very unpredicatably with immensely
expensive and inconvenient results for yourself, and maybe others
(for which you might be liable). With climate change, some people
here who have enjoyed their harmless little garden waterway for
decades are now suffering chaos from flashfloods.

Before any DIY alterations to that fragile balance, I'd get some
expert, specialist local advice.

Very good points there. Maybe Holly has to live with the brambles at
least for a while longer, just keeping them cut right back. And
think of the old saying "when life gives you lemons, you make
lemonade", applying the words 'bramble' and 'jelly' where
appropriate! In more serious vein, it might be worth her while
investigating whether the bank could be stabilised in some other way,
using grasses etc. There, though, the problem is going to be
introducing them without removing the brambles and destabilsing the
bank. Hmmmm.

Thanks for everyone's comments. I'll try to reply to them all in one go.
Yes, the bank needs something to keep it stable, and what I was hoping
to do was to replace the brambles and nettles with something more
attractive, as Sacha suggests. Also I forgot to mention there is bracken
at the bottom which is quite attractive and can stay there. You're right
too that mulch won't work, mainly because it will just fall off! There
is another area downstream a bit from the area I am working on here
where some of bank was less steep and some was about the same as part of
this bit. The mulch, not terribly well rotted farmyard manure, worked
well and got some shrubs established on the less steep part, but when it
dried out on the steeper bit and was picked at and trampled by birds and
dog it just worked it's way down the slope. More was lost from the lower
areas when the river level rose. Most of this current section is steeper
still so mulch is a non-starter.

The erosion during flooding is not as bad as people are imagining. This
bank is on the millstream and in normal conditions very little water
goes along it. During floods the flow increases maybe about fourfold but
it's still not a huge amount of water flowing along. What happens is
that the main river floods dramatically and water levels rise so the
water backs up the millstream to the same level. Also, this bit of the
millstream is just above a little bridge with a concrete pipe of about
3' diameter taking the water through, so that also limits the flow of
water above it. Hope that makes sense, if not you'll just have to
believe me :-) So really I think the bank needs something to stabilise
it much as any other bank would, the water doesn't make that much
difference other than whatever is planted on it will have to survive a
few days submersion in water a couple of times a year.

Janet is right about the flooding and the river changing course, it is
noticeable from old and even not very old maps that this has happened
over the years. An old cart track now disappears into the river. There
is an island at the end of our peninsula which we and our current
neighbour regard as ours but it isn't where it appears on the map.
Another island further down has almost disappeared. The neighbour is in
the process of selling and if the purchaser makes a fuss over exact
boundaries they will have to get surveys done and maps redrawn. We'll
cross that (rope!) bridge if we come to it :-)

Good point too about not introducing anything invasive. I have been
careful not to do this anywhere on the river/lake system.

Good point too about the coypu destroying the banks. Mostly they come
and go but don't try to set up home too near to the house, which is
where the banks between the lakes and stream are most vunerable. If they
do we trap them and rehome them upstream a bit, which I know is
interfering with them but IMO better than shooting them. Anyway, they
have interfered with my bullrushes almost to the point of extinction!

--
Holly, in France
Gite to let in Dordogne, now with pool.
http://la-plaine.chez-alice.fr

Rusty Hinge 2 wrote:
The message .com
from "La Puce" contains these words:

Mulch. There.

Won't work, see other reply.

Mulch and mulch after putting whatever new you need to
put there. The salix could then be coppiced ... and you could offer
basket making workshops to your customers. A new business )

Basket making, you must be joking! I am helping run a building business,
looking after the house, the gite, four children, two horses, a dog, a
swimming pool, a garden and a polytunnel, cutting a couple of acres of
grass and trying to keep the rest of the place in some sort of order!
Maybe when I retire :-)

Just so long as it's not crack willow, and something like S.
viminalis.

I'm not at all sure about this willow idea, but it's a thought. Do you
know of a weeping type willow which doesn't grow very big? The only ones
I have seen are ornamental ones allowed to grow and chopped off at the
top so that they weep from there. Nice in the right situation but not
suitable for here, I need something natural looking.

--
Holly, in France
Gite to let in Dordogne, now with pool.
http://la-plaine.chez-alice.fr