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George.com 21-03-2006 09:43 AM

No dig gardens
 
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed or
harvest root vegetables
leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to the
soil or self seed
using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly leach
in to the soil
using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil
crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following
leafy plants with root crops etc

Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob



George.com 21-03-2006 10:29 AM

No dig gardens
 

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "George.com" contains these words:

Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm

interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or

failures
etc.


You'll find much discussion in the google archives of newgroup
alt.permacultur, including contributors from the antipodes.

I've used it for years (in Scotland). A quick easy way to star is to
cover weedy undug ground with flattened cardboard cartons. (If you live
in a dry climate, do this after a good rainfall). Cut an X and fold back
the card where you wish to grow plants, potatoes etc. Cover the
cardboard with 6" of compostable degradeable material such as lawn
clippings, dead leaves, manure, chopped comfrey, straw, seaweed,
bracken, sheep-shearing waste, used animal bedding, and keep topping it
up as it disappears. If you haven't got quite enough mulch material to
completely cover the newly laid cardboard, use planks or stones to stop
it blowing away, keep it in close contact with the earth, and exclude
light from weeds. Keep adding more mulch material as you acquire it .
Within weeks, whatever mixture you mulched with will be uniformly brown
and the whole thing looks neat and tidy.

. The cardboard smothers existing weeds and prevent germination of their
seeds; by the end of a season worms will have digested all the cardboard
and its covering and enriched the soil. The worm population will have
multiplied, and birds will spend a lot of time turning over the mulch to
find worms, helping to break it down and scarify the soil surface. The
following season the soil will be clean enough for direct seedsowing.
Keep covering any bare soil with mulches and topping them up as worms
take them down. A very few weeds may come through the mulch, tweak them
out and lay them on top of it to die.


exactly the process I intend to use Janet to make my new vege garden but
will be making a raised garden, easier on the back. The chuck anything in
and let in break down into soil is a great process. I can see it taking some
months to build the soil structure, including some forking and turning, but
once it is set onew of the issues of the no dig I am attracted to is the
(supposed, and I have not seen evidence to suggest anythign different) self
regulating process of the soil and the low maintenance than say a double dug
or intensive garden.

rob



George.com 21-03-2006 10:33 AM

No dig gardens
 

"simy1" wrote in message
oups.com...
In regard to leaving spent plants in place, it works if the rotation is
strict. You leave tomatoes in a patch because you know there will be no
tomatoes there next year.


can you explain a little more this concept please?

rob



George.com 21-03-2006 11:18 AM

No dig gardens
 

"Derek Turner" wrote in message
...
George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm

interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or

failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed

or
harvest root vegetables
leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to

the
soil or self seed
using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly

leach
in to the soil
using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil
crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance

following
leafy plants with root crops etc

Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob



As you've cross-posted to other 'international' (read American) groups
this may not help but a visit to Ryton organic gardens in Warwickshire
will provide you with all the info and inspiration you need.


thanks Derek. I cross posted to try and get a range of views, rather than
post in each NG in turn. It is a bit of a walk to Warwickshire from here,
being New Zealand. The UK garden NG is quite a good one for me as the
weather/environment is quite similar to here.

rob



George.com 21-03-2006 11:59 AM

No dig gardens
 

"George.com" wrote in message
...
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm

interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or

failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed

or
harvest root vegetables
leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to

the
soil or self seed
using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly

leach
in to the soil
using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil
crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following
leafy plants with root crops etc

Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob


perhaps a point of clarification needed here, my original explaination may
not have been specific enough. It is not the proces of constructing a no dig
garden I am wondering about, through thanks to those who have made usueful
suggestions in that area. It is actually in the process of gardening,
propogating, rearing plants using a no dig approach, no tillage of the soil,
low input, low labour, 'do nothing' process. What got be interested
initially was this guys thoughts

Masanobu Fukuoka http://larryhaftl.com/ffo/fover.html

It sounded like a really good lazy way (and sustainable) of growing veges n
herbs. I have only started experimenting.

The way my dad and grandad used to do vege gardens of digging in compost and
manure every year, digging over weeds, spending hours preparing beds seemed
labour intensive. They seemed to need to constantly put back nutrients into
the soil as the process of rearing veges stripped the nutrients out.
Moreover the more I read the more is suggested that constantly tilling the
soil to nay significant depth actually damages the soil structure and its
potency.

Fukuoka says that leaving the nutrients where they are greatly reduces this
robbing of the soils vitality and nature and worms will dig organic matter
in to the soil for you. That sounds good in theory, I hope someone has
matched it in reality and can report on that.

rob



Derek Turner 22-03-2006 10:24 AM

No dig gardens
 
George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed or
harvest root vegetables
leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to the
soil or self seed
using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly leach
in to the soil
using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil
crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following
leafy plants with root crops etc

Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob



As you've cross-posted to other 'international' (read American) groups
this may not help but a visit to Ryton organic gardens in Warwickshire
will provide you with all the info and inspiration you need.

Derek Turner 22-03-2006 11:20 AM

No dig gardens
 
George.com wrote:
"Derek Turner" wrote in message
...
George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm

interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or

failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed

or
harvest root vegetables
leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to

the
soil or self seed
using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly

leach
in to the soil
using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil
crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance

following
leafy plants with root crops etc

Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob


As you've cross-posted to other 'international' (read American) groups
this may not help but a visit to Ryton organic gardens in Warwickshire
will provide you with all the info and inspiration you need.


thanks Derek. I cross posted to try and get a range of views, rather than
post in each NG in turn. It is a bit of a walk to Warwickshire from here,
being New Zealand. The UK garden NG is quite a good one for me as the
weather/environment is quite similar to here.

rob


OK you can always visit online! the Henry Doubleday Research Association
(HDRA) own and run Ryton where there is a no-dig demonstration garden.
I've tried it: it works (in my case slowly). I used a bulb planter to
plant potatoes and then used horticultural paper and lawn-clippings.
Everything else went into earth that had been overwintered under porous
weed-suppressing membrane then spread with well-rotted cowshit and some
home-made compost. I used a rake to loosen the surface. Obviously
lifting the potatoes might count as digging to a purist! I found that it
took four years (i.e. a whole crop rotation) to get the earth (heavy
clay meadow) into something like good heart. Now I get nettles and am
soooo proud!

hth

JennyC 22-03-2006 12:38 PM

No dig gardens
 

"George.com" wrote in message
...
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed or
harvest root vegetables
leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to the
soil or self seed
using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly leach
in to the soil
using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil
crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following
leafy plants with root crops etc

Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob


Interesting concept !!
Never looked into it before, but you've started me off :~)

Seems to be a big thing in Australia, in fact there are courses a stones throws
away from you:
http://www.waverley.nsw.gov.au/counc...odiggarden.asp

More info and how to:
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/pu...rth/garden.htm

Even the RHS has info on it:
http://www.rhs.org.uk/publications/p..._garden_0299_d
ig.asp

and of course Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_dig_gardening

Do keep us posted on your efforts. Pictures would be good .........
Jenny






La Puce 22-03-2006 01:12 PM

No dig gardens
 

JennyC wrote:
Interesting concept !!
Never looked into it before, but you've started me off :~)


Really?! Where have you been?! ;o)

This is my second year - kept all the legumes (broad beans, peas,
beans) bed as it is but clean up a bit by just taking out the wires,
mesh and poles. Kept all the plants there and they have all decomposed
on top, giving the top surface a smooth dark tilth, which I just raked
lightly, for my cucurbitas this year. The potatoes this year will be
covered with straw and grass and on the new plot (given to me recently
by the committee ouuerr...) I'll use one bed for spuds using the
traditional method to see which one is best. Where the potatoes where
last year I have just kept as it is, won't touch anything beside raking
a bit to level. My legumes will go in there. My neighbour has started
this process 3 years ago - she uses chicken pooh and tonnes of grass
clipings. Her veg patch received an award last week end for the
previous summer. Our tribe got praised for the creation of Edward
Twigorhands, a very elaborate (and realistic) scarecrow and an award
for my wild flower patch blush


[email protected] 22-03-2006 01:41 PM

No dig gardens
 
The Ruth Stout No-Work Garden Book
How to Have a Green Thumb Without an Aching Back

How to Have a Green Thumb Without an Aching Back by Ruth Stout
Lasagna Gardening : A New Layering System for Bountiful Gardens: No Digging, No
Tilling, No Weeding, No Kidding! by Patricia Lanza

My step father knew Ruth and Rex Stout. He took my mother for a visit and she became
a Ruth Stout convert. my mother did have a bad back already. \
Ingrid



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
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sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.

La Puce 22-03-2006 01:54 PM

No dig gardens
 

wrote:

How to Have a Green Thumb Without an Aching Back by Ruth Stout
Lasagna Gardening : A New Layering System for Bountiful Gardens: No Digging, No
Tilling, No Weeding, No Kidding! by Patricia Lanza
My step father knew Ruth and Rex Stout. He took my mother for a visit and she became
a Ruth Stout convert. my mother did have a bad back already. \


Oh ta very much Ingrid !


Mike Lyle 22-03-2006 02:35 PM

No dig gardens
 
wrote:
The Ruth Stout No-Work Garden Book
How to Have a Green Thumb Without an Aching Back

How to Have a Green Thumb Without an Aching Back by Ruth Stout
Lasagna Gardening : A New Layering System for Bountiful Gardens: No
Digging, No Tilling, No Weeding, No Kidding! by Patricia Lanza

My step father knew Ruth and Rex Stout. He took my mother for a
visit and she became a Ruth Stout convert. my mother did have a bad
back already. \
Ingrid


Rex Stout, as in Nero Wolfe?

--
Mike.



Charlie Pridham 22-03-2006 07:38 PM

No dig gardens
 

"George.com" wrote in message
...
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm

interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or

failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed

or
harvest root vegetables
leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to

the
soil or self seed
using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly

leach
in to the soil
using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil
crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following
leafy plants with root crops etc

Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob

We operate a no dig policy for the whole garden, started as a way of
avoiding disturbing the subsoil which is very high in arsenic but we quickly
found things grew better and we had less weeds (and a lot less slug and
snail damage - except underground with potatoes)
We use a shredder and everything goes back on green i.e. uncomposted. Been
doing it 20+ years with no problems (but I do have thin poor soil)

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)



[email protected] 22-03-2006 11:14 PM

No dig gardens
 
oh yeah. mom didnt meet him tho. my stepfather knew him tho. Ingrid

"Mike Lyle" wrote:

wrote:
The Ruth Stout No-Work Garden Book
How to Have a Green Thumb Without an Aching Back

How to Have a Green Thumb Without an Aching Back by Ruth Stout
Lasagna Gardening : A New Layering System for Bountiful Gardens: No
Digging, No Tilling, No Weeding, No Kidding! by Patricia Lanza

My step father knew Ruth and Rex Stout. He took my mother for a
visit and she became a Ruth Stout convert. my mother did have a bad
back already. \
Ingrid


Rex Stout, as in Nero Wolfe?




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.

simy1 23-03-2006 02:24 AM

No dig gardens
 
sure, in fact it is the only form of gardening I practice. details
below.

George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow seed or
harvest root vegetables


You have to rake clean those parts of the garden where you expect to
broadcast seeds directly.

leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add nutrients to the
soil or self seed


I allow mache, arugula, and miner lettuce (plus purslane, a weed) to
self-seed. They are cold weather small greens that can grow
uncospicuously when nothing else grows, or in the shade of bigger
plants.

using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that slowly leach
in to the soil


of course. I even try to plan two years ahead. If I know there will be
big plants for two years in a bed, I tend to use wood chips, which will
decompose slowly. If I want the bed clean next year, I use leaves that
disappear in a year

using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the soil


no. I have plenty of the real manure.

crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance following
leafy plants with root crops etc


yes, but typically only two years rotation.


Thanks in advance for your contribution

rob



simy1 23-03-2006 03:09 AM

No dig gardens
 
In regard to leaving spent plants in place, it works if the rotation is
strict. You leave tomatoes in a patch because you know there will be no
tomatoes there next year. Not removing the plants certainly saves you a
few hours work in the Fall.


Farm1 23-03-2006 08:04 AM

No dig gardens
 
"George.com" wrote in message
...
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm

interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or

failures
etc.

My definition of no dig involves:
minimal tillage of the soil, short of scratching the surface to sow

seed or
harvest root vegetables
leaving spent plants in place to degrade in the garden, add

nutrients to the
soil or self seed
using surface mulches to suppress weeds and add nutrients that

slowly leach
in to the soil
using green mulches like legumes or clover to add nitrogen to the

soil
crop rotation to protect the integrity of the soil, for instance

following
leafy plants with root crops etc

Thanks in advance for your contribution


My experience (in Australia) is that the beds tend to dry out in the
searing heat of midsummer and they are then a real devil to moisten
again. They work reasonably well if you can keep them moist. My
advice would be to use lucerne (aka alfalfa) in slabs as the base, and
to put in pockets of potting mix or good compost where you want to
plant seeds/seedlings. Prepare the bales of lucerne by leaving them
to sit in the garden for a while and "mature". By that I mean to
start rotting down. I put them direct on the soil and let them get
wet as I turn on the sprinkler then turn them every month or when I
remember so that a new surface is then presented to the soil. If you
can do this where the no-dig bed is to go then you will start to
notice the build up of worms (and the worms will aslo start to
colonise the rotting base of the bale) and you'll notice an increased
richness of the soil where the bale has been sitting. This makes it a
bit easier to get the bed going. Also I never use newspaper on the
bottom. I've found it doesn't work for me and stops the microgoobies
from starting to work in the bed.



Rupert 23-03-2006 09:31 AM

No dig gardens
 

"George.com" wrote in message
...

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "George.com" contains these words:

Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm

interested

snip

I've used it for years (in Scotland). A quick easy way to star is to
cover weedy undug ground with flattened cardboard cartons. (If you live
in a dry climate, do this after a good rainfall). Cut an X and fold back
the card where you wish to grow plants, potatoes etc. Cover the
cardboard with 6" of compostable degradeable material such as lawn
clippings, dead leaves, manure, chopped comfrey, straw, seaweed,
bracken, sheep-shearing waste, used animal bedding, and keep topping it
up as it disappears. If you haven't got quite enough mulch material to
completely cover the newly laid cardboard, use planks or stones to stop
it blowing away, keep it in close contact with the earth, and exclude
light from weeds. Keep adding more mulch material as you acquire it .
Within weeks, whatever mixture you mulched with will be uniformly brown
and the whole thing looks neat and tidy.

. The cardboard smothers existing weeds and prevent germination of their
seeds; by the end of a season worms will have digested all the cardboard
and its covering and enriched the soil. The worm population will have
multiplied, and birds will spend a lot of time turning over the mulch to
find worms, helping to break it down and scarify the soil surface. The
following season the soil will be clean enough for direct seedsowing.
Keep covering any bare soil with mulches and topping them up as worms
take them down. A very few weeds may come through the mulch, tweak them
out and lay them on top of it to die.


exactly the process I intend to use Janet to make my new vege garden but
will be making a raised garden, easier on the back. The chuck anything in
and let in break down into soil is a great process. I can see it taking
some
months to build the soil structure, including some forking and turning,
but
once it is set onew of the issues of the no dig I am attracted to is the
(supposed, and I have not seen evidence to suggest anythign different)
self
regulating process of the soil and the low maintenance than say a double
dug
or intensive garden.

rob


You can always torture yourself by doing a *final*double dig and then
creating no dig raised beds using all the techniques already suggested.
I have seen this done with perennial flower beds and the results are
spectacular with deep rooted plants.
I suppose it's not really that necessary for veg unless you want to grow 4'
carrots :-)



lwhaley 23-03-2006 09:54 AM

No dig gardens
 

George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures
etc.



I have used a variation on no dig gardening. The city i lived in had
free compost from grass clippings and leaves. I brought home a few
truckloads and just dumped them on the ground to create my planting bed
with no further preparation. I had good success.


simy1 23-03-2006 02:27 PM

No dig gardens
 
There are certain plants that catch diseases. I leave all greens and
all root crops and all bulbs in place, because they never catch
anything, but tomatoes, cucurbita, beans and cabbage, if I know I am
not going to rotate next year, I prefer to remove. Most of my tomatoes
are healthy, but there is one particular heirloom that is hit or miss.
And the cukes get the wilt.

Otherwise it is efficient to harvest the vegetable, clean it on the
spot, and drop the remains on the ground. It saves you a trip to the
compost pile, and trip back.

Other things I have learned: absolutely mulch at the very last minute
before planting, and preferrably after last frost. If you mulch in
march, because you don't have much else to do, you will have cold soil
in May.


simy1 23-03-2006 02:31 PM

No dig gardens
 
well, if you get good quality veggies, they will take away a lot of
nutrients. No till eliminates tilling, weeding, and reduces fertilizing
and watering, but you can not grow great chard with leaves compost only
(though you can with manure).
You do need either manure or some chemical fertilizer, at least with
some veggies. Or you need to grow a lot of peas and beans.
Also, no till eventually becomes very friendly to slugs. Now organic
slug bait is available everywhere, so this is no longer a problem.


La Puce 23-03-2006 03:18 PM

No dig gardens
 

simy1 wrote:
There are certain plants that catch diseases. I leave all greens and
all root crops and all bulbs in place, because they never catch
anything, but tomatoes, cucurbita, beans and cabbage, if I know I am
not going to rotate next year, I prefer to remove. Most of my tomatoes
are healthy, but there is one particular heirloom that is hit or miss.
And the cukes get the wilt.


Just curious, where do you write from simy1?


simy1 23-03-2006 04:21 PM

No dig gardens
 
southeast michigan.


simy1 23-03-2006 04:22 PM

No dig gardens
 
southeast michigan.


La Puce 23-03-2006 04:43 PM

No dig gardens
 

simy1 wrote:
southeast michigan.


I got curious because of the tomatoes you described. You describe them
the way I grew them in the south of France you see, but not as in
England :o)


Sheldon Harper 23-03-2006 05:09 PM

No dig gardens
 
"La Puce" wrote in news:1143132208.069474.43520
@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

simy1 wrote:
southeast michigan.


I got curious because of the tomatoes you described. You describe them
the way I grew them in the south of France you see, but not as in
England :o)


Now you see simy1 is an honest to goodness troll, because (s)he lives
below the bridge.

(It's a Michigan joke. To the humor impaired: Look at a map of Michigan.)



Ron Clark 23-03-2006 05:29 PM

No dig gardens
 
On 23 Mar 2006 08:22:02 -0800, "simy1" wrote this
(or the missive included this):

southeast michigan.



Never mind


--
®óñ© © ² * ¹°°³

Janet Tweedy 23-03-2006 06:25 PM

No dig gardens
 
In article , Charlie
Pridham writes


We use a shredder and everything goes back on green i.e. uncomposted. Been
doing it 20+ years with no problems (but I do have thin poor soil)



How would you grow seeds then Charlie. Some things can of course be sown
in post and planted but I've just checked on three to four inches of
shredding and it would seem daft to sow stuff such as spring onions or
small seeds in the material

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Amersham Gardening Association
http://www.amersham-gardening.net

gardenlen 23-03-2006 10:53 PM

No dig gardens
 
g'day rob,

yes i use them all the time very successful for me come vsit my web site and
see how we do it:

http://www.users.bigpond.com/gardenlen1/

len

snipped



George.com 24-03-2006 09:14 AM

No dig gardens
 

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "George.com" contains these words:

It is actually in the process of gardening,
propogating, rearing plants using a no dig approach, no tillage of the

soil,
low input, low labour, 'do nothing' process.


"low input, low labour, "do nothing"...in your dreams :-)


comparably speaking

The way my dad and grandad used to do vege gardens of digging in compost

and
manure every year, digging over weeds, spending hours preparing beds

seemed
labour intensive. They seemed to need to constantly put back nutrients

into
the soil as the process of rearing veges stripped the nutrients out.


When you harvest crops, they were created from that soil they grew
in . Unless you replenish what was taken out, the soil fertility will
decline year on year and so will crops.

The method I described earlier in the thread, doesn't require the
labour of double digging, or digging in fertiliser, but there's a
considerable amount of labour in harvesting/collecting or fetching and
distributing the huge volumes of free mulch I use very year.

Fukuoka said
"Whatever the means employed, the natural farmer must secure a nearby
supply of humus that can serve as a source of soil fertility".

Janet.


he apparently spread chicken poop and left in on the soil to be worked in
slowly so yes, I accept the point that I will have to supplement the soil
with pooh or compost or both etc. One of the attractions however is not
turning the soil over year on year once you have gotten it functioning
correctly.

Fukuoka seemed to have a closed cycle system using only what was produced on
his farm. I don't have chickens or ducks so the poop will have to come off
site. I also can't rely on them to deal to things like slugs so that will
need some manual input although my property is low in slug/snail numbers
compaitive to others I have lived in given a zero tolerence attitude. It is
fun going out in the evenings after some rain to knock of the slugs/snails.
Give me an excuse to have a smoke.

I also reckon on some time and work to get the soil good from the start,
rich in organic matter etc but that is the preperation isn't it, not the
ongoing maintenance.

rob



Dave 26-03-2006 07:05 PM

No dig gardens
 
George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm interested
in your experiences and opinions, how you got started, successes or failures
etc.


I tried planting butternut and acorn squash in a thickly mulched plot
last year and had mixed results. The acorn squash plants all turned
yellow and died. The weeds still grew, just a bit more slowly. The
butternut produced modestly. What else has to be done and how much
attention has to be given to soil testing? Thanks.


Mike Lyle 26-03-2006 07:31 PM

No dig gardens
 
Dave wrote:
George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm
interested in your experiences and opinions, how you got started,
successes or failures etc.


I tried planting butternut and acorn squash in a thickly mulched plot
last year and had mixed results. The acorn squash plants all turned
yellow and died. The weeds still grew, just a bit more slowly. The
butternut produced modestly. What else has to be done and how much
attention has to be given to soil testing? Thanks.


I don't know about acorn, but I did grow butternut once, before I was
told it was impossible! It was a heat-wave year, and they did rather
well. Others here will tell you not to bother, as (unless they've
produced a variety suitable for the British climate) they want a long
hot summer. If you don't get many replies, a Google Groups search of the
group archive will bring up a lot of stuff from the past couple of
years.

I don't think soil testing is worth the expense for most amateurs: if
your garden grows stuff, and you do the usual feeding routine, it's OK.

--
Mike.



[email protected] 27-03-2006 04:14 AM

No dig gardens
 
Mike Lyle wrote:
Dave wrote:
George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm
interested in your experiences and opinions, how you got started,
successes or failures etc.


I tried planting butternut and acorn squash in a thickly mulched plot
last year and had mixed results. The acorn squash plants all turned
yellow and died. The weeds still grew, just a bit more slowly. The
butternut produced modestly. What else has to be done and how much
attention has to be given to soil testing? Thanks.


I don't know about acorn, but I did grow butternut once, before I was
told it was impossible! It was a heat-wave year, and they did rather
well. Others here will tell you not to bother, as (unless they've
produced a variety suitable for the British climate) they want a long
hot summer. If you don't get many replies, a Google Groups search of the
group archive will bring up a lot of stuff from the past couple of
years.

I don't think soil testing is worth the expense for most amateurs: if
your garden grows stuff, and you do the usual feeding routine, it's OK.


Oh, this thread is being cross-posted across three groups. I'm located
in the midwest US. The Summer here can be quite hot and dry. In fact it
was rather difficult to judge when the mulched plot needed water. UK
weather is probably similar to the northwest US.

Dave


R M. Watkin 27-03-2006 07:45 PM

No dig gardens
 
Hi All,
I have grown butternut squash [ Butternut Sprinter ] with success in most
years. Hope this helps you.

Richard M. Watkin.

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
George.com wrote:
Has anyone experimented with, made use of, no dig gardening? I'm
interested in your experiences and opinions, how you got started,
successes or failures etc.


I tried planting butternut and acorn squash in a thickly mulched plot
last year and had mixed results. The acorn squash plants all turned
yellow and died. The weeds still grew, just a bit more slowly. The
butternut produced modestly. What else has to be done and how much
attention has to be given to soil testing? Thanks.


I don't know about acorn, but I did grow butternut once, before I was
told it was impossible! It was a heat-wave year, and they did rather
well. Others here will tell you not to bother, as (unless they've
produced a variety suitable for the British climate) they want a long
hot summer. If you don't get many replies, a Google Groups search of the
group archive will bring up a lot of stuff from the past couple of
years.

I don't think soil testing is worth the expense for most amateurs: if
your garden grows stuff, and you do the usual feeding routine, it's OK.

--
Mike.






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