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Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
I've heard various dire predictions about dry conditions becoming more
prevalent, water shortages, hosepipe bans and even severe water use resrictions. I live in the South-East where we seem to have much more of a problem with this. One person I spoke to said they would only plant drought-resistant plants now. I've been looking at what is available that is said to have greater drought resistance than average. One email from Crocus gave this url for a list of such plants: http://www.crocus.co.uk/findplant/se...yID=0&ValueID= &ValueID=&ValueID=&ValueID=&ValueID=33&ValueID=&Va lueID=&x=23&y=13&affiliate=c u112 which is a very long url! It leads to over four hundred search results. Some of these seem to be wrong where for example the plant is described as liking moist soil and needing watering in dry periods (not just whilst getting established), but I would hope that most are correct. We have a hosepipe ban here commencing in April and some nearby SE counties are considering more severe restrictions on water use. I'm getting a water butt installed and will be pumping any used bathwater intro it and pouring water from washing-up into it too. I wish my water butt was already installed- we seem to have many days of rain commencing today.... You can get quite good weather forecast information from the Metcheck web site- even a week or so ahead, which is much further ahead than the usual weather forecats sites: http://www.metcheck.com/V40/UK/HOME/ Has anyone got any good ideas for dealing with drier conditions, water restrictions etc? -- VX (remove alcohol for email) |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
One thing you could do is buy 100% biodegradable soap (liquid) and save
the water from dishwashing, laundry, shower/bath - that makes a lot of water and you save some money on clothes because your colours don't fade so quickly. Another thing could be buying plants rezistant to dry periods. I like the plants sold by kokopelli you can find them he www.kokopelli-seed-foundation.com or try a seed exchange forum - that way you won't have to pay for the seeds. |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
Sorry I think I posted the wrong link
http://www.organicseedsonline.com/ - we use the French site and I didn't check the results for English |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
VX wrote: which is a very long url! It leads to over four hundred search results. Some of these seem to be wrong where for example the plant is described as liking moist soil and needing watering in dry periods (not just whilst getting established), but I would hope that most are correct. Well yes, taking an example of these plants, mimosa, grows like a weed in the south of france where it has lots of sunshine but has an abondance of water via night rains. All plant needs water except succulents. So all these plants on Crocus are perhaps tollerent of dry conditions, this doesn't mean that they won't need water at some point. Also thank you for the link - whilst I would love a mimosa, being the scent of my childhood, I can't have one - NW england is not the best place for it, but I once saw the Kolomikta vine and just didn't know how to describe it, nor knew the name. Your link just gave me this and I've just bought a 3l pot. Thanks you so much :o) |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
In article m, VX
writes I'm getting a water butt installed If you intend to get a water barrel do it soon as harcostar appear to be flat out supplying them! Janet -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
"VX" wrote in message s.com... Has anyone got any good ideas for dealing with drier conditions, water restrictions etc? Mulch wherever possible. Water evaporating into the atmosphere from the soil surface, isn't doing much good to anything from what I can see. From the garden, to the pots in the greenhouse. Baking foil on the latter can reflects sunlight back up to the plant. Or old CD's if placed around the plant stem at an early stage of developement maybe. Always removeable late if necesary with a tin snips. The only problem is that if the mulch is really effective and acts as a total vapour barrier then this might prevent the soil from getting properly aerated. Also of course, any rain would simply settle on the surface and evaporate away, so you'd be really worse off than before. There are however plenty of permeabale mulching materials around that let rain and air in eventually, but hinder too much evaporation. You'll need to cut holes to plant things and apply water but mulching is probably the way to go. While there's talk of plastic sheet mulches encouraging slugs it also encourages plent of ground beetles IME who appear quite able to see in the dark. Mulching can also be very effective against the depredations of cats - especially one's own. michael adams .... -- VX (remove alcohol for email) |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:51:23 +0000, GH wrote
(in message .com): One thing you could do is buy 100% biodegradable soap (liquid) and save the water from dishwashing, laundry, shower/bath - that makes a lot of water and you save some money on clothes because your colours don't fade so quickly. I use the Ecover laundry and dishwashing products, but wonder what would be biodegradable for shower/bath type soap- any suggestions for that? -- VX (remove alcohol for email) |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
"VX" wrote in message s.com... SNIP / Has anyone got any good ideas for dealing with drier conditions, water restrictions etc? How about moving to Wales, it always seems to rain there, mind you the West Midlands takes a fair share of its water from Wales regards Cineman -- VX (remove alcohol for email) |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
Janet Baraclough wrote:
The message m from VX contains these words: I've heard various dire predictions about dry conditions becoming more prevalent, water shortages, hosepipe bans and even severe water use resrictions. I live in the South-East where we seem to have much more of a problem with this. Has anyone got any good ideas for dealing with drier conditions, water restrictions etc? Try two books by Beth Chatto, The Dry Garden and The Gravel Garden. You should be able to order them from any library but I'd recommend buying them as they are such useful references.(She gardens in the S.E) Both contain reliable plantlists as well as useful ways to adapt your gardening to drier conditions If you are in range of her garden, not far from Colchester Essex, its open most of the time (though not usually on Sundays), with an attached garden centre. The garden centre plant selection is arranged in sections of "dry", "wet", "shade", etc., rather than the more traditional pure alphabetical arrangement. The dry "we've done no watering since year one, honest" garden is interesting, giving a decent impression of what can be done. It looks pretty decent even towards the tail end of a dry summer. The garden centre and the dry garden (which forms part of the approach to the house) are free of charge, the main garden charges a modest fee. - Nigel (fairly local to the Chatto garden, no commercial connection other than the odd small purchases). -- Nigel Cliffe, Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/ |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:24:24 +0000, Janet Baraclough wrote
(in message ): I use the Ecover laundry and dishwashing products, but wonder what would be biodegradable for shower/bath type soap- any suggestions for that? Ecover shower/bath products. However, don't confuse "biodegradeable" with "harmless to living plants it touches". Not many plants could take a constant diet of diluted soap; no matter how biodegradeable it is. Janet My first thought was (and still is)- how can I bath without using soap? -- VX (remove alcohol for email) |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:16:21 +0000, VX wrote
(in message m): My first thought was (and still is)- how can I bath without using soap? Er, what I mean is, I wonder if there is way? This may not be a profitable avenue to explore but it would be great if there was some sort of alternative. I hate the idea of wasting all that water just because I've contaminated it by washing with soap in it.... -- VX (remove alcohol for email) |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
"VX" wrote in message s.com... On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:16:21 +0000, VX wrote (in message m): My first thought was (and still is)- how can I bath without using soap? Er, what I mean is, I wonder if there is way? This may not be a profitable avenue to explore but it would be great if there was some sort of alternative. I hate the idea of wasting all that water just because I've contaminated it by washing with soap in it.... -- VX (remove alcohol for email) The chances are that what you refer to as soap is probably a synthetic detergent , however, it does biodegrade. If you can find a way of storing the water for a few weeks prior to use, having first added a few handfuls of soil, then you will probably have something that will not harm most plants. You also have a totally legitimate reason for peeing in the bath. |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
VX writes
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:16:21 +0000, VX wrote (in message m): My first thought was (and still is)- how can I bath without using soap? Er, what I mean is, I wonder if there is way? This may not be a profitable avenue to explore but it would be great if there was some sort of alternative. I hate the idea of wasting all that water just because I've contaminated it by washing with soap in it.... Well, there are those little bars they sell for washing hands which they claim get rid of all the dirt without using soap - look in any of the innovations type catalogues. But the amount of soap you'd use for a basic wash wouldn't hurt - it's adding all the bubble bath or bath oil that's the problem. -- Kay |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
The first thing is to know what a hosepipe restriction actually means.
Although the water companies don't like to make this clear, you can still legitimately use a hosepipe during a "ban". What you can't do is water plants directly with it or wash the car. But for the disabled or infirm who can't carry heavy watering cans, it might be useful to know that they can place empty containers around the garden, strategically close to plants which need water, and fill those containers with a hose - then using a watering can to carry the precious stuff the short distance to their plants. Unusually for the water companies, there's a good/factual Q&A on the Three Valleys Water website at http://www.3valleys.co.uk/home/ah_beatthedrought.shtml which explains what you can still use a hose for -- including, ludicrously, to supply a pressure washer. The law is an ass and I suppose I'm in the minority in that I am furious that gardeners and the £5bn gardening industry are used as scapegoats when their consumption of water is so small. The water compnaies don't have any powers to impose restrictions on the people who use 99% of our abstracted water. They can only prohibit the 1% that goes to an outside tap. That's because an outside tap doesn't come under their statutory domestic supply regulations. So, take as many power showers as you like, leave the bathroom tap running all night, flush the loo 5 times a night and generally waste as much water as you like indoors because it will take an (unlikely) emergency drought order and standpipes to curb you. Meanwhile the gardener carries the full burden of restrictions despite the fact that 96% of all household water use goes unchecked and so does all the industrial, commercial and agricultural use. And so does much of the water industry leakage which alone would supply over one-third of all the nation's domestic needs. But what really makes my blood boil is that all the evidence indicates that hosepipe restrictions don't actually save water. Research by the Environment Agency, the Water Research Centre, Southern Water and others hasn't been able to prove that hosepipe bans save water. Some of the research shows that water consumption actually goes up during a hosepipe ban. Other research shows that industrial users reduced their consumption far more than domestic users despite the fact that the industrial users weren't subject to any restrictions. Anyway, the real reason for the water shortage in the south east isn't the low rainfall because it has been just as low in other areas but the water companies inability and unwillingness to invest in water storage resources - combined with the Government's suicidal house-building programme in the region. And do check whether your water supplier really has imposed a restriction. Research last year by the Environment Agency proved that 14% of customers in a region where water was plentiful and unrestricted wrongly assumed that they were subject to a hosepipe ban. For the record, here (at the time of writing) are all the hosepipe bans which will be in force by April 3: Cholderton & District Water Folkestone & Dover Water Mid Kent Water South East Water Sutton & East Surrey Water Thames Water Three Valleys Water Southern Water has imposed part-area restrictions in its Sussex North, Sussex Coast, Sussex Hasting, Kent Thanet, Kent Medway and Isle of Wight water supply areas (739,000) but not in its Hampshire supply area. That's a total of 6.3m homes, all in the south east. Other areas are not threatened by drought and won't need to impose hosepipe bans. Next week I will come under Thames Water's hosepipe ban. I have sown new areas of lawn and if it doesn't rain, I will connect up my hosepipe to my tripod garden shower, perfectly legally, and tell the family to shower outdoors - moving the tripod around as required. It's all spin and con and we just take it like sheep. |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:18:40 +0000, Stan The Man wrote
(in message ): Thaks for that, very interesting! The first thing is to know what a hosepipe restriction actually means. Although the water companies don't like to make this clear, you can still legitimately use a hosepipe during a "ban". What you can't do is water plants directly with it or wash the car. But for the disabled or infirm who can't carry heavy watering cans, it might be useful to know that they can place empty containers around the garden, strategically close to plants which need water, and fill those containers with a hose - then using a watering can to carry the precious stuff the short distance to their plants. Well that's good to know- I do in fact have a degree of disability. It's about time it came in useful! I have a couple of questions: What confuses me is whether the hosepipe ban could ever apply to a hosepipe that is connected only to a water butt that contains water that I put there myself, ie that I recycled, or rainwater that I diverted from the roof rather than allowing it to go straight into the drain. Surely they can't stop me using a hose (or an underground irrigation system connected by a hose) with that? They way they say it on the TV makes it sound like you can't use a hose at all no matter where you obtained the water from, and that can't be quite right, surely. The law is an ass ... Just thought I'd leave that in. The water compnaies don't have any powers to impose restrictions on the people who use 99% of our abstracted water. They can only prohibit the 1% that goes to an outside tap. Just to make sure I got this- does this mean that the fact that when using mains water I always run a hose through the kitchen window and use the kitchen tap- does this mean the hosepipe ban would not apply to me? -- VX (remove alcohol for email) |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
VX wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:16:21 +0000, VX wrote (in message m): My first thought was (and still is)- how can I bath without using soap? Er, what I mean is, I wonder if there is way? This may not be a profitable avenue to explore but it would be great if there was some sort of alternative. I hate the idea of wasting all that water just because I've contaminated it by washing with soap in it.... Actually, we use soap far too much. I once lived on intimate terms with a family who only ever used soap for hands and emergencies. They did use deodorant, though sparingly, and were all as sweet as nuts, and had lovely skin. It was interesting to see the way water behaved on the children: it went into well-defined globules, as on waterproofed cloth. I don't suppose it would take too long for our skins to get back to normal if we gave up soap for bathing. -- Mike. |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
"VX" wrote in message s.com... On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:51:23 +0000, GH wrote (in message .com): One thing you could do is buy 100% biodegradable soap (liquid) and save the water from dishwashing, laundry, shower/bath - that makes a lot of water and you save some money on clothes because your colours don't fade so quickly. I use the Ecover laundry and dishwashing products, but wonder what would be biodegradable for shower/bath type soap- any suggestions for that? Try a camping store for biodegradable soap and cloths. Not cheap but is degradeable. Be aware that biodegradable means that 90% of the 'stuff' will break down in 6 months in soil. Sitting in a butt is not the same thing. Dave |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
"Stan The Man" wrote in message ... The first thing is to know what a hosepipe restriction actually means. Although the water companies don't like to make this clear, you can still legitimately use a hosepipe during a "ban". What you can't do is water plants directly with it or wash the car. But for the disabled or infirm who can't carry heavy watering cans, it might be useful to know that they can place empty containers around the garden, strategically close to plants which need water, and fill those containers with a hose - then using a watering can to carry the precious stuff the short distance to their plants. Unusually for the water companies, there's a good/factual Q&A on the Three Valleys Water website at http://www.3valleys.co.uk/home/ah_beatthedrought.shtml which explains what you can still use a hose for -- including, ludicrously, to supply a pressure washer. The law is an ass and I suppose I'm in the minority in that I am furious that gardeners and the £5bn gardening industry are used as scapegoats when their consumption of water is so small. The water compnaies don't have any powers to impose restrictions on the people who use 99% of our abstracted water. They can only prohibit the 1% that goes to an outside tap. That's because an outside tap doesn't come under their statutory domestic supply regulations. So, take as many power showers as you like, leave the bathroom tap running all night, flush the loo 5 times a night and generally waste as much water as you like indoors because it will take an (unlikely) emergency drought order and standpipes to curb you. Meanwhile the gardener carries the full burden of restrictions despite the fact that 96% of all household water use goes unchecked and so does all the industrial, commercial and agricultural use. And so does much of the water industry leakage which alone would supply over one-third of all the nation's domestic needs. But what really makes my blood boil is that all the evidence indicates that hosepipe restrictions don't actually save water. Research by the Environment Agency, the Water Research Centre, Southern Water and others hasn't been able to prove that hosepipe bans save water. Some of the research shows that water consumption actually goes up during a hosepipe ban. Other research shows that industrial users reduced their consumption far more than domestic users despite the fact that the industrial users weren't subject to any restrictions. Anyway, the real reason for the water shortage in the south east isn't the low rainfall because it has been just as low in other areas but the water companies inability and unwillingness to invest in water storage resources - combined with the Government's suicidal house-building programme in the region. And do check whether your water supplier really has imposed a restriction. Research last year by the Environment Agency proved that 14% of customers in a region where water was plentiful and unrestricted wrongly assumed that they were subject to a hosepipe ban. For the record, here (at the time of writing) are all the hosepipe bans which will be in force by April 3: Cholderton & District Water Folkestone & Dover Water Mid Kent Water South East Water Sutton & East Surrey Water Thames Water Three Valleys Water Southern Water has imposed part-area restrictions in its Sussex North, Sussex Coast, Sussex Hasting, Kent Thanet, Kent Medway and Isle of Wight water supply areas (739,000) but not in its Hampshire supply area. That's a total of 6.3m homes, all in the south east. Other areas are not threatened by drought and won't need to impose hosepipe bans. Next week I will come under Thames Water's hosepipe ban. I have sown new areas of lawn and if it doesn't rain, I will connect up my hosepipe to my tripod garden shower, perfectly legally, and tell the family to shower outdoors - moving the tripod around as required. It's all spin and con and we just take it like sheep. Thank God you said all that. You have saved me the time and effort of making an almost identical rant. Not much I can add really. (but I will) If you remember in 1995/1996 Parts of Yorkshire ran out of water. I like to think it was because there was an active campaign by consumers to waste as much water as possible. The net result was a massive investment in infrastructure which should make YWA immune to a few dry winters. There is no shortage of water nationally but the pipes were never installed to distribute it. How about a big water pipe from Scotland to London.--along with a secondary pipe for poo :-) |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
Stan The Man wrote:
[...] And so does much of the water industry leakage which alone would supply over one-third of all the nation's domestic needs. Well, people voted for politicians who promised to privatise the public's utilities. I have little sympathy for them. But what really makes my blood boil is that all the evidence indicates that hosepipe restrictions don't actually save water. Research by the Environment Agency, the Water Research Centre, Southern Water and others hasn't been able to prove that hosepipe bans save water. Some of the research shows that water consumption actually goes up during a hosepipe ban. Well, I'd expect it to. Dry periods are when people are going to water their gardens on top of all their normal water use. (They often don't actually need to, of course.) I'm sure filling watering cans uses a lot less water than walking round the garden holding a running hosepipe. Other research shows that industrial users reduced their consumption far more than domestic users despite the fact that the industrial users weren't subject to any restrictions. Except that they _are_ restricted in a sense: by having to pay water bills based on metering. That seems to be one way of controlling consumption. I imagine Sacha's business is on a meter, for example. Anyway, the real reason for the water shortage in the south east isn't the low rainfall because it has been just as low in other areas but the water companies inability and unwillingness to invest in water storage resources - combined with the Government's suicidal house-building programme in the region. That's perfectly true. [...] It's all spin and con and we just take it like sheep. Yep. And anybody who takes an interest in politics is told he's being boring. -- Mike. |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
In article m, VX
wrote: On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:18:40 +0000, Stan The Man wrote (in message ): (snip) What confuses me is whether the hosepipe ban could ever apply to a hosepipe that is connected only to a water butt that contains water that I put there myself, ie that I recycled, or rainwater that I diverted from the roof rather than allowing it to go straight into the drain. Surely they can't stop me using a hose (or an underground irrigation system connected by a hose) with that? They way they say it on the TV makes it sound like you can't use a hose at all no matter where you obtained the water from, and that can't be quite right, surely. You will always be able to attach a hose to a private water supply - which is what a water butt is. In fact you will make the water companies very happy. Is your system gravity fed? How well does it work? Tell all. The water compnaies don't have any powers to impose restrictions on the people who use 99% of our abstracted water. They can only prohibit the 1% that goes to an outside tap. Just to make sure I got this- does this mean that the fact that when using mains water I always run a hose through the kitchen window and use the kitchen tap- does this mean the hosepipe ban would not apply to me? Good spot but HM Govt saw that coming and the Water Industry Act 1991 doesn't actually mention which tap the water is drawn from. The Temporary Hosepipe Ban legislation simply bans the use of hose for the specific purposes of watering priovate gardens and washing private vehicles. So, you would be liable to a fine if you connected the hose to an inside tap - but not if you took the hose off and left the tap running indefinitely. |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
In article , Rupert
wrote: How about a big water pipe from Scotland to London.--along with a secondary pipe for poo :-) You jest but Thames Water have a serious contingency plan in the event of a third dry winter to import water from Scandinavia in giant rubber condoms towed across the sea and up the Thames. |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
In article , Mike Lyle
wrote: Stan The Man wrote: [...] But what really makes my blood boil is that all the evidence indicates that hosepipe restrictions don't actually save water. Research by the Environment Agency, the Water Research Centre, Southern Water and others hasn't been able to prove that hosepipe bans save water. Some of the research shows that water consumption actually goes up during a hosepipe ban. Well, I'd expect it to. Dry periods are when people are going to water their gardens on top of all their normal water use. (They often don't actually need to, of course.) I'm sure filling watering cans uses a lot less water than walking round the garden holding a running hosepipe. The ban in question was imposed during a hot spell. There was no logical reason to suppose that water consumption would have been naturally higher during the ban than it was before the ban. And people who walk around with gushing hosepipes are irresponsible. Any decent spray gun or nozzle fitting makes it easy to turn the water off at the business end. A good hosegun defaults to off so that you have to squeeze the trigger to produce water. Other research shows that industrial users reduced their consumption far more than domestic users despite the fact that the industrial users weren't subject to any restrictions. Except that they _are_ restricted in a sense: by having to pay water bills based on metering. That seems to be one way of controlling consumption. I imagine Sacha's business is on a meter, for example. Indeed they are metered but they were metered before, during and after the hosepipe restriction so it wasn't a factor in the research. Domestic metering is a hot topic and 28% of homes in the UK now have one fitted, according to OFWAT. Trouble is the research again shatters the big myth. Newly metered homes do indeed reduce their water consumption immediately by up to 10% but after the first year - and presumably not having been shocked by their water bills - metered properties gradually return to within 1% or so of their former, pre-metered usage. Perhaps water needs to be more expensive for metering to have a long-term impact on consumption. |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
"Janet Tweedy" wrote in message ... In article , Janet Baraclough writes My first thought was (and still is)- how can I bath without using soap? Quite easily; one of my sons has never used any washing products on his skin, just water. Janet. Many of the so called organic or 'pure' shampoos, soap and bath oils contain SLS or sodium lauryl sulphate (often spelt in differing ways) the MSG of detergents I have found only one or two bath products via the Internet, which don't actually contain it. It burns my skin and aggravates my sons excema so we try not to use it. If it dries my skin out it can't do much good to plants. I saw a bio-degradable liquid soap last week. It was market as such, friendly on the environment, clean and green etc. A large label said on it 'Danger-handle with care' or words to that effect. It may bio-degrade but into what is one question and what damage will it do on the way is another. rob |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
Instead of soap you can use a number of other products that have been
used to make natural body scrubs or face masks - wheat (or any cereal) husk, tomato juice + pulp, fresh non-pasteurized milk, corn, clay, apple peal/juice, etc... We used to make 1-2 liters of fruit and vegetable juice a week to drink and I used the pulp for this(or stored in the fridge). It's a nice skin treatment and it's fun experimenting. The trick is though that after spreading it on your entire body you have to wait 10-15 mins for it to dry, (which makes it less comfortable in the winter) then scrub it off with a sponge or plastic scrub... |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
In article , Janet Baraclough
writes My first thought was (and still is)- how can I bath without using soap? Quite easily; one of my sons has never used any washing products on his skin, just water. Janet. Many of the so called organic or 'pure' shampoos, soap and bath oils contain SLS or sodium lauryl sulphate (often spelt in differing ways) I have found only one or two bath products via the Internet, which don't actually contain it. It burns my skin and aggravates my sons excema so we try not to use it. If it dries my skin out it can't do much good to plants. Is grey water safe for vegetable use if used regularly? Janet -- Janet Tweedy Amersham Gardening Association http://www.amersham-gardening.net |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message ... Quite easily; one of my sons has never used any washing products on his skin, just water. Janet. Yup, just push 'em out into the rain. Saves having to run the washing machine quite so often, as well. michael adams .... |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
"VX" wrote in message s.com... On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:51:23 +0000, GH wrote (in message .com): One thing you could do is buy 100% biodegradable soap (liquid) and save the water from dishwashing, laundry, shower/bath - that makes a lot of water and you save some money on clothes because your colours don't fade so quickly. I use the Ecover laundry and dishwashing products, but wonder what would be biodegradable for shower/bath type soap- any suggestions for that? I buy washing soda in bulk and mix it with baking soda or borax for the laundry. It costs as little, or less, than cmmercial powders, uses a shit load less power to make and distribute and package, breaks down easily into basic chemical components AND does as well, IMHO, as commercial powders. Washing soda by itself works well. I also use it straight in the dish washer. I don't even bother with "eco-friendly" detergents as they cost 3-4 times the washing soda. rob |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... VX wrote: On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:16:21 +0000, VX wrote (in message m): My first thought was (and still is)- how can I bath without using soap? Er, what I mean is, I wonder if there is way? This may not be a profitable avenue to explore but it would be great if there was some sort of alternative. I hate the idea of wasting all that water just because I've contaminated it by washing with soap in it.... Actually, we use soap far too much. I once lived on intimate terms with a family who only ever used soap for hands and emergencies. They did use deodorant, though sparingly, and were all as sweet as nuts, and had lovely skin. It was interesting to see the way water behaved on the children: it went into well-defined globules, as on waterproofed cloth. I don't suppose it would take too long for our skins to get back to normal if we gave up soap for bathing. I rarely use shampoo on my hair these days and it seems to be fine. I used to suffer flakey scalp (some may call it dandruff but slakey scalp has less stigma) from time to time and bought the anti-flakey scalp (dandruff) shampoo. Since I stopped using the shampoo natural oils have started to re appear and the dandruff has all but gone. My hair is in good nick and, last time I looked anyway, no nits or fleas have moved in. rob |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
In article , George.com
writes Many of the so called organic or 'pure' shampoos, soap and bath oils contain SLS or sodium lauryl sulphate (often spelt in differing ways) the MSG of detergents I was told at a research skin clinic that, that was the ingredient that made my scalp itchy as well, apparently it was invented to degrease garage floors:) It's in even expensive, apparently pure, aromatherapy cosmetics and bath oils and shampoos. Janet -- Janet Tweedy Amersham Gardening Association http://www.amersham-gardening.net |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... VX wrote: On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:16:21 +0000, VX wrote (in message m): My first thought was (and still is)- how can I bath without using soap? Er, what I mean is, I wonder if there is way? This may not be a profitable avenue to explore but it would be great if there was some sort of alternative. I hate the idea of wasting all that water just because I've contaminated it by washing with soap in it.... Actually, we use soap far too much. I once lived on intimate terms with a family who only ever used soap for hands and emergencies. They did use deodorant, though sparingly, and were all as sweet as nuts, and had lovely skin. It was interesting to see the way water behaved on the children: it went into well-defined globules, as on waterproofed cloth. I don't suppose it would take too long for our skins to get back to normal if we gave up soap for bathing. Mike. Interesting post Mike ! One feels one would like to try alternatives to soap, but is wary of BO, especially in our highly sensitive office environments :~) Jenny |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
"George.com" wrote in message ... "VX" wrote in message s.com... On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:51:23 +0000, GH wrote (in message .com): One thing you could do is buy 100% biodegradable soap (liquid) and save the water from dishwashing, laundry, shower/bath - that makes a lot of water and you save some money on clothes because your colours don't fade so quickly. I use the Ecover laundry and dishwashing products, but wonder what would be biodegradable for shower/bath type soap- any suggestions for that? I buy washing soda in bulk and mix it with baking soda or borax for the laundry. It costs as little, or less, than cmmercial powders, uses a shit load less power to make and distribute and package, breaks down easily into basic chemical components AND does as well, IMHO, as commercial powders. Washing soda by itself works well. I also use it straight in the dish washer. I don't even bother with "eco-friendly" detergents as they cost 3-4 times the washing soda. rob Can your 'mixture' be used for coloured cloths or just for 'whites' ?? I've read that is it caustic - do you need to wear gloves to handle it? Does this not eat into the material? Jenny |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
Stan The Man wrote:
In article , Mike Lyle wrote: Stan The Man wrote: [...] But what really makes my blood boil is that all the evidence indicates that hosepipe restrictions don't actually save water. Research by the Environment Agency, the Water Research Centre, Southern Water and others hasn't been able to prove that hosepipe bans save water. Some of the research shows that water consumption actually goes up during a hosepipe ban. Well, I'd expect it to. Dry periods are when people are going to water their gardens on top of all their normal water use. (They often don't actually need to, of course.) I'm sure filling watering cans uses a lot less water than walking round the garden holding a running hosepipe. The ban in question was imposed during a hot spell. There was no logical reason to suppose that water consumption would have been naturally higher during the ban than it was before the ban. Huh? You don't _really_ think people as a whole use no more water during a hot spell, surely? It must seem almost patronising to spell it out; but I hope you'll forgive me for mentioning more baths or showers, more plant-watering, and probably more chance of deciding to wash the windows or the car, even the curtains and the underblanket. These seem pretty logical to me. And people who walk around with gushing hosepipes are irresponsible. Any decent spray gun or nozzle fitting makes it easy to turn the water off at the business end. A good hosegun defaults to off so that you have to squeeze the trigger to produce water. Well, yes, of course; but my informal observation suggests that too few people actually use those things. Other research shows that industrial users reduced their consumption far more than domestic users despite the fact that the industrial users weren't subject to any restrictions. Except that they _are_ restricted in a sense: by having to pay water bills based on metering. That seems to be one way of controlling consumption. I imagine Sacha's business is on a meter, for example. Indeed they are metered but they were metered before, during and after the hosepipe restriction so it wasn't a factor in the research. Ah, I see. That's quite remarkable. If I had to guess, I'd say these firms were doing their bit by cutting down on vehicle washing and other inessentials: well done, them! Domestic metering is a hot topic and 28% of homes in the UK now have one fitted, according to OFWAT. Trouble is the research again shatters the big myth. Newly metered homes do indeed reduce their water consumption immediately by up to 10% but after the first year - and presumably not having been shocked by their water bills - metered properties gradually return to within 1% or so of their former, pre-metered usage. I didn't know that, but I suppose it's not surprising, human nature beng what it is. Perhaps water needs to be more expensive for metering to have a long-term impact on consumption. Probably. But given how extravagant many people are with electricity... -- Mike. |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
In article , Mike Lyle
wrote: The ban in question was imposed during a hot spell. There was no logical reason to suppose that water consumption would have been naturally higher during the ban than it was before the ban. Huh? You don't _really_ think people as a whole use no more water during a hot spell, surely? It must seem almost patronising to spell it out; but I hope you'll forgive me for mentioning more baths or showers, more plant-watering, and probably more chance of deciding to wash the windows or the car, even the curtains and the underblanket. These seem pretty logical to me. Of course, all water use goes up in a hot spell. But you must have missed my point: it was hot before the ban and hot during the ban. Iow, the climate wasn't a factor in gauging the effectiveness of the ban. |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
Stan The Man wrote:
In article , Mike Lyle wrote: The ban in question was imposed during a hot spell. There was no logical reason to suppose that water consumption would have been naturally higher during the ban than it was before the ban. Huh? You don't _really_ think people as a whole use no more water during a hot spell, surely? It must seem almost patronising to spell it out; but I hope you'll forgive me for mentioning more baths or showers, more plant-watering, and probably more chance of deciding to wash the windows or the car, even the curtains and the underblanket. These seem pretty logical to me. Of course, all water use goes up in a hot spell. But you must have missed my point: it was hot before the ban and hot during the ban. Iow, the climate wasn't a factor in gauging the effectiveness of the ban. Without stats, I agree. But I proceeded on the assumption that the dry weather persisted after the ban was introduced and so exacerbated the conditions. We continue to agree that the system is badly mismanaged. -- Mike. |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 1:47:56 +0000, Stan The Man wrote
(in message ): You will always be able to attach a hose to a private water supply - which is what a water butt is. In fact you will make the water companies very happy. Is your system gravity fed? How well does it work? Tell all. I haven't got the downpipe connected to the butt yet and haven't started using the butt, so I don't know how well gravity alone would work. Originally I just assumed it would be enough, now I'm not so sure. However I bought a "waterbutt pump" (cheaper from diytools.com than from Crocus for the same item) for the purpose of getting bathwater out of the bath and into the butt, but realised belatedly from its description that it was primarily intended for getting water out of the butt and into a hose. This suggests that this has proved to be necessary on several occasions sufficient for someone to succesfully market a pump for the purpose. Well I'm prepared. But I think I'm expecting to need the pump for pushing water through to its ultimate destination. -- VX (remove alcohol for email) |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message ... The message from "Rupert" contains these words: How about a big water pipe from Scotland to London.--along with a secondary pipe for poo :-) Illogical Rupert, everyone knows there's no shortage of pooh in England :-) Janet You forgot to say "Keep yer fing ands of us water" :-) |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
On 25 Mar 2006 00:35:17 -0800, "GH" wrote:
Instead of soap you can use a number of other products that have been used to make natural body scrubs or face masks - wheat (or any cereal) husk, tomato juice + pulp, fresh non-pasteurized milk, corn, clay, apple peal/juice, etc... We used to make 1-2 liters of fruit and vegetable juice a week to drink and I used the pulp for this(or stored in the fridge). It's a nice skin treatment and it's fun experimenting. The trick is though that after spreading it on your entire body you have to wait 10-15 mins for it to dry, (which makes it less comfortable in the winter) then scrub it off with a sponge or plastic scrub... Could you use spent hops and malt grains from beer wort mashing? I already use the yeast and trub for making 'beer bread' (if you ever want to see instant dough proving try some of that live working brewer's yeast - you have to fight it down!!!) so instead of recycling the hops and grains as garden compost I might be able to spread them on my body and let them dry on. Would smelling even more like a brewery be socially acceptable? |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
Rupert wrote:
"Alan Holmes" wrote in message ... "Mike Lyle" wrote in [...] Actually, we use soap far too much. I once lived on intimate terms with a family who only ever used soap for hands and emergencies. They did use deodorant, though sparingly, and were all as sweet as nuts, and had lovely skin. It was interesting to see the way water behaved on the children: it went into well-defined globules, as on waterproofed cloth. I don't suppose it would take too long for our skins to get back to normal if we gave up soap for bathing. So, what do you do, just stand under the shower and rub your hands all over your body in the hope some of the dirt will come off? Alan Yes that's about it -and most if not all the dirt will come off, however most of the body oils will not be removed. You could use soap ( the stuff that forms a scum in hard water) instead of the modern detergents. Removing *all* body hair also helps :-) As an experiment try washing your hair for the next few weeks in plain warm water and report back to the group with your findings. We don't often actually _get_ much dirt on our bodies anyway. I'm soap-addicted myself, but any beautician will probably confirm that it does more harm than good except where genuine hygiene is concerned. The things plain water won't shift aren't an everyday problem for most people, and when they do appear it's usually on limited areas. -- Mike. |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
"JennyC" wrote in message ... "George.com" wrote in message ... "VX" wrote in message s.com... On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:51:23 +0000, GH wrote (in message .com): One thing you could do is buy 100% biodegradable soap (liquid) and save the water from dishwashing, laundry, shower/bath - that makes a lot of water and you save some money on clothes because your colours don't fade so quickly. I use the Ecover laundry and dishwashing products, but wonder what would be biodegradable for shower/bath type soap- any suggestions for that? I buy washing soda in bulk and mix it with baking soda or borax for the laundry. It costs as little, or less, than cmmercial powders, uses a shit load less power to make and distribute and package, breaks down easily into basic chemical components AND does as well, IMHO, as commercial powders. Washing soda by itself works well. I also use it straight in the dish washer. I don't even bother with "eco-friendly" detergents as they cost 3-4 times the washing soda. rob Can your 'mixture' be used for coloured cloths or just for 'whites' ?? I've read that is it caustic - do you need to wear gloves to handle it? Does this not eat into the material? Jenny I have used it for ayear now on everything and it doesn't seem to be any different for whites or colours. I don't seperate colours and whites. Also, in my experience, the dyes used in colours are 'colour fast' and don't bleed in to the water. The only problem I have evey had with colours is when using bleach, which I don't any more. The top line modern powders and detergents are said to contain fabric whiteners. This may be the case however I have never noticed remarkable results from detergents in the wash in brightening colours. Some whites (likes sheets) do go gray over time however this has been the case with washing soda OR commercial detergents. I guess it is simply the way I use them, wash them etc. If the sheets are slightly gray I couldn't care less frankly. They get resued for something else (rags, drop cloths etc) when they become thread bare, not because of graying. When I am asleep I am not aware of what colour it is. If I want them to be bright white I can use nappy wash or hang them on the line for a hweek in bright sunshine (the best bleaching agent). If you have white work shirts, dresses etc that have to remain white I guess you would wash those sperately with commercial powders so switching to washing soda you would follow the same procedure but without rooting the environment so much. People say washing soda is harsh on the hands. In my experience, that is crap. I handle it regularly and in no way does it burn or irritate my skin. There is a residue after handling and a quick wash removes that. I don't bother with gloves. Obviously, don't eat the stuff or get it in your eyes. I guess I wouldn't rub it in other sensitive areas like my groin either, but never having tried, I can't vouch for that. If you have very sensitive skin or want to keep your hands baby bum smooth you may want to wear gloves. As a point of reference, concrete drys mu hands to the point of needing to use hand cream for 2 days or more to restore the condition, washing soda I never have to bother about. I use about the same amount as recommended for commercial powders, a scoop full. This can be varied depending on experiemnts and results. I throw it in the bottom of the washing machine and set it on a cold wash, just like I do with commercial powders. You can mix it with hot water prior to wash and put it in the tub when it has water in it. Waste of time however in my opinion. Really soiled clothes may need to be soaked or spot cleaned with something, commercial varieties abound, before adding to the wash. However, you need to do that with commercial powders as well to get the best results. Washing soda can be mixed with borax or baking soda as well. Keep the borax away from children as it is poisonous and don't eat it obviously. Washing soda does absorb water in humid conditions. I keep my mix in an ice cream container by the washing machine. Over summer it absorbed water (somehow) and became a slurry. That did not seem to effect its activity and simply meant I poured a semi liquid mix into the washing machine rather than a crystal form. Overall, I have found it to be easy to use, as effective as other washing powders and with nil side effects. Moreover, it is easier on the environment both in how it is produced, distributed and sold (if you buy it in bulk) and softer on water ways when a waste product. Large amounts of sodium carbonate (which is washing soda), or borax for that matter. in water ways can be toxic to aquatic life. The amounts used in domestic washing however is so diluted wheh it reaches the sewers, or septic tank, or even grey water use, that I don't consider it to be a problem. It breaks down quickly into very simple chemical compounds, does not leave complex or hard to degrade chemical compounds, and contains no phosphorous etc which commercial detergents do which grows aquatic weed. rob |
Drier conditions & water restrictions - what to do?
Good one!
I meant to spread them on your body and let them dry only to peel them later and then rinse your body with water. So you won't smell anyway and you can water the garden and get a skin treatment at the same time. |
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