The message
from David Rance contains these words:


And you're right - never, NEVER, boil the fruit for wine-making,
especially if it contains pectin. If you do the haze will never clear.

David (in Normandy!)

That confirms a conclusion I was just reaching. I started a few
different wines last summer and have had problems with them not
clearing. On comparing notes with a neighbour, I was wondering whether
it was because I'd added boiling water to the fruit. I shall try
everything cold this year.

My other concern is to try to make wine as organically as possible. I
presume Sodium metabisulphite is fairly harmless but wouldn't qualify as
organic. What would organic wine-makers use to sterilise their
equipment?

Janet G

On Mon, 7 Aug 2006, Janet Galpin wrote:

And you're right - never, NEVER, boil the fruit for wine-making,
especially if it contains pectin. If you do the haze will never clear.

David (in Normandy!)

That confirms a conclusion I was just reaching. I started a few
different wines last summer and have had problems with them not
clearing. On comparing notes with a neighbour, I was wondering whether
it was because I'd added boiling water to the fruit. I shall try
everything cold this year.

My other concern is to try to make wine as organically as possible. I
presume Sodium metabisulphite is fairly harmless but wouldn't qualify as
organic. What would organic wine-makers use to sterilise their
equipment?

I'm not sure that even organic winemakers can do away with sulphur for
sterilising (no matter what they may say!). I see no harm in adding one
Campden tablet to every gallon (in the case of fruit wines that's about
four pounds of fruit). Providing you are scrupulously clean then it
shouldn't be necessary to add any more. I never do.

The reason I am sceptical about organic grape wines is that it is
virtually impossible to grow grapes without resorting to spraying
against the mildews (powdery and downy). If I didn't spray regularly I
would lose the whole crop - and have done in the past when I didn't
spray!

David (in Normandy!)

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

Janet Galpin wrote:

I presume Sodium metabisulphite is fairly harmless but wouldn't qualify as organic. What would organic wine-makers use to sterilise their equipment?

Janet G

Fairly harmless??

Not according to the chemical industry.

SAFETY DATA SHEET
SODIUM METABISULPHITE Page 1
Issued: 25/09/2002
Revision No: 1
1. IDENTIFICATION OF THE SUBSTANCE / PREPARATION AND OF THE COMPANY /
UNDERTAKING
Product name: SODIUM METABISULPHITE

Use / description of product: Harmful.

3. HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION
Main hazards: Harmful if swallowed. Risk of serious damage to eyes.
4. FIRST AID MEASURES (SYMPTOMS)
Skin contact: There may be mild irritation at the site of contact.
Eye contact: There may be irritation and redness.
Ingestion: There may be soreness and redness of the mouth and throat.
There may be difficulty
swallowing. Nausea and stomach pain may occur. There may be vomiting.
Inhalation: Absorption through the lungs can occur causing symptoms
similar to those of ingestion.
4. FIRST AID MEASURES (ACTION)
Skin contact: Wash immediately with plenty of soap and water.
Eye contact: Bathe the eye with running water for 15 minutes.
Ingestion: Wash out mouth with water. Do not induce vomiting. If
conscious, give half a litre of water to
drink immediately. Transfer to hospital as soon as possible.
Inhalation: Remove casualty from exposure ensuring one's own safety
whilst doing so. Consult a doctor.

I presume Sodium metabisulphite is fairly harmless but wouldn't qualify
as organic. What would organic wine-makers use to sterilise their
equipment?

Janet G

Fairly harmless??

Not according to the chemical industry.

SAFETY DATA SHEET
SODIUM METABISULPHITE Page 1

Whoa everyone...
Sodium MetabisulphIte (with an "I") may be nasty but the chemical put in
wine is Sodium MetabisulphAte ("A").
Different chemical.

"David (in Normandy)" wrote in message
...
I presume Sodium metabisulphite is fairly harmless but wouldn't qualify
as organic. What would organic wine-makers use to sterilise their
equipment?

Janet G

Fairly harmless??

Not according to the chemical industry.

SAFETY DATA SHEET
SODIUM METABISULPHITE Page 1

Whoa everyone...
Sodium MetabisulphIte (with an "I") may be nasty but the chemical put in
wine is Sodium MetabisulphAte ("A").
Different chemical.
Sodium metabisulph ITE is the material used for sterilising the wine
equipment etc. and does end up in the wine.
Sodium metabisul ATE is a highly acid substance and is akin to solid
sulphuric acid and is nasty if you eat it. It's the main constituent of some
solid toilet cleaners.
I can guess that the French shove the latter in their wine.

Sodium metabisul ATE is a highly acid substance and is akin to solid
sulphuric acid and is nasty if you eat it. It's the main constituent of
some solid toilet cleaners.
I can guess that the French shove the latter in their wine.


Only if they run out of anti-freeze :-)

On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, David (in Normandy) wrote:

Sodium metabisul ATE is a highly acid substance and is akin to solid
sulphuric acid and is nasty if you eat it. It's the main constituent of
some solid toilet cleaners.
I can guess that the French shove the latter in their wine.


Only if they run out of anti-freeze :-)

Antifreeze was used in a highly publicised case more than twenty years
ago by a combine just outside Rust on the Neusiedler See in Austria in
order to sweeten the wine. The local small wine growers were outraged by
this and put up posters saying that their wine was good and did NOT
contain antifreeze. I still have one of these posters somewhere.

The net result of this was that Austrian wine was not imported to the UK
(and several other countries) for years afterwards which was a great
pity as they have some great wines which are totally different to any
others. Even a grape like Müller-Thurgau produces a very sweet wine in
Austria and quite different to that produced by the same grape in, for
instance, the Mosel-Saar-Ruwer area of Germany. Also they have their own
grape varieties not found elsewhere such as Grüner Veldliner and
Welschriesling (which, in spite of the name, is not a Riesling at all).

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

David Rance wrote:
[...]
Antifreeze was used in a highly publicised case more than twenty years
ago by a combine just outside Rust on the Neusiedler See in Austria in
order to sweeten the wine. The local small wine growers were outraged by
this and put up posters saying that their wine was good and did NOT
contain antifreeze. I still have one of these posters somewhere.
[...]

Ridiculous fuss over a perfectly reasonable little mistake! Why, only
last winter I put glycerol in the car radiator. Worked as sweet as a
nut.

--
Mike.

On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, Rupert (W.Yorkshire) wrote:

Whoa everyone...
Sodium MetabisulphIte (with an "I") may be nasty but the chemical put in
wine is Sodium MetabisulphAte ("A").
Different chemical.
Sodium metabisulph ITE is the material used for sterilising the wine
equipment etc. and does end up in the wine.
Sodium metabisul ATE is a highly acid substance and is akin to solid
sulphuric acid and is nasty if you eat it. It's the main constituent of some
solid toilet cleaners.

I can guess that the French shove the latter in their wine.

They don't.

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France

On Tue, 8 Aug 2006, David (in Normandy) wrote:

I presume Sodium metabisulphite is fairly harmless but wouldn't qualify
as organic. What would organic wine-makers use to sterilise their
equipment?

Janet G

Fairly harmless??

Not according to the chemical industry.

SAFETY DATA SHEET
SODIUM METABISULPHITE Page 1

Whoa everyone...
Sodium MetabisulphIte (with an "I") may be nasty but the chemical put in
wine is Sodium MetabisulphAte ("A").
Different chemical.

Sorry, no! It is sodium metabisulphite. I have some here sold by Boots
for wine-making purposes and metabisulphite is what is on the label.
Crazy Horse is right about its effects but that is only when it is
concentrated. Obviously people would have to treat it with care.

As mentioned earlier, wine-makers burn sulphur in casks to sterilise
them. If you breathed in the fumes then you would suffer the same
symptoms that Crazy Horse describes.

I was always taught the use sodium metabisulphite with care by my father
as it is used in a fixing bath for black and white photography.

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France