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UK drought - end in sight
"Stan The Man" wrote in message
... They never issue any press releases about the good news because it doesn't suit their political agenda but the Environment Agency is now reporting big improvements in river, reservoir and groundwater levels: http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...4767/1131486/? version=1&lang=_e And although they maintain that hosepipe restrictions will continue until well into the winter, one of the south east water companies, Folkestone & Dover, has this month ended its hosepipe ban: http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...4767/1131486/1 401202/?lang=_e The Government (Defra) has promised to update its drought laws next year and will publish a consultation paper next month. Its aim is to make emergency water use restrictions fairer, more logical and universally interpreted by all the water companies. Thereafter, water companies will no longer be able to tell lies to customers about what hosepipe uses are banned. Until then, a new voluntary code of practice will shortly be adopted by the water companies to bring forward consistency. The likelihood is that the new legislation will remove some of the anomalies in the current aged hosepipe laws, eg by bringing swimming pools, pressure washers and other exempt water uses under control; but it will exempt from the early stages of drought restrictions efficient plant watering methods such as micro irrigation systems which are illogically banned under the current rules. We may also expect to see an adaptation of the Australian hosepipe laws whereby hose use is restricted only at certain times of the day or on certain days of the week. Does anyone know if anybody had been prosecuted for using a hose pipe either for garden watering or car washing? A report I heard the other day was .... no! Anyone know different? Mike -- .................................................. ......... Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association www.rnshipmates.co.uk www.nsrafa.com |
UK drought - end in sight
In article , Stan The Man
writes We may also expect to see an adaptation of the Australian hosepipe laws whereby hose use is restricted only at certain times of the day or on certain days of the week. About time! I rather liked the system in America that meant odd and even numbered homes were restricted to alternate days with one day a week with a total ban. I wouldn't mind anything like that as long as it meant I could water the plants at least once a week. Still Rosy Hardy of Hardy's cottage garden plants says that she allows plants to go very dry as they do that in the wilds! It is much better anyway for the plants to have one good soak than a lot of little amounts. -- Janet Tweedy Dalmatian Telegraph http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk |
UK drought - end in sight
"Stan The Man" wrote in message ... They never issue any press releases about the good news because it doesn't suit their political agenda Can you explain what you mean, please? Mary |
UK drought - end in sight
They never issue any press releases about the good news because it
doesn't suit their political agenda but the Environment Agency is now reporting big improvements in river, reservoir and groundwater levels: http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...4767/1131486/? version=1&lang=_e And although they maintain that hosepipe restrictions will continue until well into the winter, one of the south east water companies, Folkestone & Dover, has this month ended its hosepipe ban: http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...4767/1131486/1 401202/?lang=_e The Government (Defra) has promised to update its drought laws next year and will publish a consultation paper next month. Its aim is to make emergency water use restrictions fairer, more logical and universally interpreted by all the water companies. Thereafter, water companies will no longer be able to tell lies to customers about what hosepipe uses are banned. Until then, a new voluntary code of practice will shortly be adopted by the water companies to bring forward consistency. The likelihood is that the new legislation will remove some of the anomalies in the current aged hosepipe laws, eg by bringing swimming pools, pressure washers and other exempt water uses under control; but it will exempt from the early stages of drought restrictions efficient plant watering methods such as micro irrigation systems which are illogically banned under the current rules. We may also expect to see an adaptation of the Australian hosepipe laws whereby hose use is restricted only at certain times of the day or on certain days of the week. |
UK drought - end in sight
"Stan The Man" wrote in message
... In article , Mary Fortunately, the advance of water metering presents the water compnaies with a dichotomy. If we are brainwashed into using less water, the water industry gets less revenue from metered properties. Fokestone & Dover water company, which lifted its hosepipe ban this month, has a vested interest in doing so because it announced earlier this year that all its customers would be compulsorily metered. The Isle of Wight has been metered for years, thus my 8 water butts:-)) Mike -- .................................................. ......... Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association www.rnshipmates.co.uk www.nsrafa.com |
UK drought - end in sight
"Stan The Man" wrote in message ... In article , Mary Fisher wrote: "Stan The Man" wrote in message ... They never issue any press releases about the good news because it doesn't suit their political agenda Can you explain what you mean, please? The publicity generated by the Environment Agency at the onset of hosepipe restrictions is overblown (so much so that research shows that 14% of people all over the country wrongly believe that they are subject to hosepipe bans); but they never seek more than the statutory level of publicity when hosepipe bans are ended. That's because: a) hosepipe bans per se contribute very little to water savings since gardeners use less than 1% of water (but the surrounding publicity does lead, allegedly, to a reduction in domestic water use of the order of 10% - including savings made inside the home where the Govt has no power to restrict usage short of the ultimate sanction of standpipes/rota cuts) b) the water shortage is much more to do with John Prescott's new house building agenda (coupled with insufficient reservoirs) - and supply pipe leaks - than it has to do with gardening (or rainfall - which statistics have been much distorted by the Environment Agency to suit the Govt's agenda) So gardeners and their hosepipes are the sacrificial lambs to a much bigger God: the need to build tens of thousands of new homes in the south east, many of them for immigrants, without having the water supply infrastructure in place to support them. The lack of water infrastructure to support new house building won't go away unless the water companies can be forced to build new reservoirs - and they take 20 years to make. So even if we suffer months of flooding, the Govt still wants us to use less water so that they can give our 'donations' to the new housing estates. Hence, no publicity when hosepipe bans are lifted. Fortunately, the advance of water metering presents the water compnaies with a dichotomy. If we are brainwashed into using less water, the water industry gets less revenue from metered properties. Fokestone & Dover water company, which lifted its hosepipe ban this month, has a vested interest in doing so because it announced earlier this year that all its customers would be compulsorily metered. That doesn't explain it! It does seem like a rant against the government (which I might well support but it doesn't explain what you said about a political agenda - to me anyway). |
UK drought - end in sight
"Stan The Man" wrote in message ... In article , Mike wrote: "Stan The Man" wrote in message ... In article , Mary Fortunately, the advance of water metering presents the water compnaies with a dichotomy. If we are brainwashed into using less water, the water industry gets less revenue from metered properties. Fokestone & Dover water company, which lifted its hosepipe ban this month, has a vested interest in doing so because it announced earlier this year that all its customers would be compulsorily metered. The Isle of Wight has been metered for years, thus my 8 water butts:-)) The Isle of Wight provides an interesting test area. When they first introduced compulsory meeting, water consumption per household dropped by around 10% on average - but this figure has gone down every year since so that today, average consumption is only approx 1% less than it was before metering was imposed. That could mean that we have more money and are prepared to spend it on water; or it could mean that the metered water bills were not as scary as folk had feared; or it could mean that everyone is now accustomed to using less water. I think that water should be metered, we pay for everything else we use by the rate we use it. Why shouldn't we? We've had a meter for years, it's made no difference to our consumption because we were careful anyway, as responsible consumers. Mary |
UK drought - end in sight
Stan The Man wrote:
a) hosepipe bans per se contribute very little to water savings since gardeners use less than 1% of water (but the surrounding publicity does lead, allegedly, to a reduction in domestic water use of the order of 10% - including savings made inside the home where the Govt has no power to restrict usage short of the ultimate sanction of standpipes/rota cuts) I'd agree with every word of that. b) the water shortage is much more to do with John Prescott's new house building agenda Well, quite. |
UK drought - end in sight
"Stan The Man" wrote snip We may also expect to see an adaptation of the Australian hosepipe laws whereby hose use is restricted only at certain times of the day or on certain days of the week. Europe has been hit too. France imposed hosepipe bans last year as well, but I think it was allowed to water ones veggies. Food still comes first in France :~)) Jenny |
UK drought - end in sight
In article , Mary
Fisher wrote: "Stan The Man" wrote in message ... They never issue any press releases about the good news because it doesn't suit their political agenda Can you explain what you mean, please? The publicity generated by the Environment Agency at the onset of hosepipe restrictions is overblown (so much so that research shows that 14% of people all over the country wrongly believe that they are subject to hosepipe bans); but they never seek more than the statutory level of publicity when hosepipe bans are ended. That's because: a) hosepipe bans per se contribute very little to water savings since gardeners use less than 1% of water (but the surrounding publicity does lead, allegedly, to a reduction in domestic water use of the order of 10% - including savings made inside the home where the Govt has no power to restrict usage short of the ultimate sanction of standpipes/rota cuts) b) the water shortage is much more to do with John Prescott's new house building agenda (coupled with insufficient reservoirs) - and supply pipe leaks - than it has to do with gardening (or rainfall - which statistics have been much distorted by the Environment Agency to suit the Govt's agenda) So gardeners and their hosepipes are the sacrificial lambs to a much bigger God: the need to build tens of thousands of new homes in the south east, many of them for immigrants, without having the water supply infrastructure in place to support them. The lack of water infrastructure to support new house building won't go away unless the water companies can be forced to build new reservoirs - and they take 20 years to make. So even if we suffer months of flooding, the Govt still wants us to use less water so that they can give our 'donations' to the new housing estates. Hence, no publicity when hosepipe bans are lifted. Fortunately, the advance of water metering presents the water compnaies with a dichotomy. If we are brainwashed into using less water, the water industry gets less revenue from metered properties. Fokestone & Dover water company, which lifted its hosepipe ban this month, has a vested interest in doing so because it announced earlier this year that all its customers would be compulsorily metered. |
UK drought - end in sight
"Stan The Man" wrote The Isle of Wight provides an interesting test area. When they first introduced compulsory meeting, water consumption per household dropped by around 10% on average - but this figure has gone down every year since so that today, average consumption is only approx 1% less than it was before metering was imposed. That could mean that we have more money and are prepared to spend it on water; or it could mean that the metered water bills were not as scary as folk had feared; or it could mean that everyone is now accustomed to using less water. Maybe it's too cheap? ..........households pay 1.2 pence per cubic meter (Telegraph June 2006) http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/aptrix/ofwat...ndyoumarch2000 says: Watering a garden: Assuming a hosepipe for one hour uses approximately 540 litres of water: 70p Jenny |
UK drought - end in sight
In article , Mike
wrote: "Stan The Man" wrote in message ... In article , Mary Fortunately, the advance of water metering presents the water compnaies with a dichotomy. If we are brainwashed into using less water, the water industry gets less revenue from metered properties. Fokestone & Dover water company, which lifted its hosepipe ban this month, has a vested interest in doing so because it announced earlier this year that all its customers would be compulsorily metered. The Isle of Wight has been metered for years, thus my 8 water butts:-)) The Isle of Wight provides an interesting test area. When they first introduced compulsory meeting, water consumption per household dropped by around 10% on average - but this figure has gone down every year since so that today, average consumption is only approx 1% less than it was before metering was imposed. That could mean that we have more money and are prepared to spend it on water; or it could mean that the metered water bills were not as scary as folk had feared; or it could mean that everyone is now accustomed to using less water. |
UK drought - end in sight
"Stan The Man" wrote in message
Fortunately, the advance of water metering presents the water compnaies with a dichotomy. If we are brainwashed into using less water, the water industry gets less revenue from metered properties. Fokestone & Dover water company, which lifted its hosepipe ban this month, has a vested interest in doing so because it announced earlier this year that all its customers would be compulsorily metered. I'm seeking clarification here. Aren't water metres (and thus payment for water) a standard thing in all city locations or are they just being introduced across the UK? |
UK drought - end in sight
In article , Mary
Fisher wrote: "Stan The Man" wrote in message ... In article , Mary Fisher wrote: "Stan The Man" wrote in message ... They never issue any press releases about the good news because it doesn't suit their political agenda Can you explain what you mean, please? The publicity generated by the Environment Agency at the onset of hosepipe restrictions is overblown (so much so that research shows that 14% of people all over the country wrongly believe that they are subject to hosepipe bans); but they never seek more than the statutory level of publicity when hosepipe bans are ended. That's because: a) hosepipe bans per se contribute very little to water savings since gardeners use less than 1% of water (but the surrounding publicity does lead, allegedly, to a reduction in domestic water use of the order of 10% - including savings made inside the home where the Govt has no power to restrict usage short of the ultimate sanction of standpipes/rota cuts) b) the water shortage is much more to do with John Prescott's new house building agenda (coupled with insufficient reservoirs) - and supply pipe leaks - than it has to do with gardening (or rainfall - which statistics have been much distorted by the Environment Agency to suit the Govt's agenda) So gardeners and their hosepipes are the sacrificial lambs to a much bigger God: the need to build tens of thousands of new homes in the south east, many of them for immigrants, without having the water supply infrastructure in place to support them. The lack of water infrastructure to support new house building won't go away unless the water companies can be forced to build new reservoirs - and they take 20 years to make. So even if we suffer months of flooding, the Govt still wants us to use less water so that they can give our 'donations' to the new housing estates. Hence, no publicity when hosepipe bans are lifted. Fortunately, the advance of water metering presents the water compnaies with a dichotomy. If we are brainwashed into using less water, the water industry gets less revenue from metered properties. Fokestone & Dover water company, which lifted its hosepipe ban this month, has a vested interest in doing so because it announced earlier this year that all its customers would be compulsorily metered. That doesn't explain it! It does seem like a rant against the government (which I might well support but it doesn't explain what you said about a political agenda - to me anyway). Try this: the Govt needs to force us to use less water, whether it rains or not. They want us to continue to use less water, whether it rains or not. Hosepipe bans are the only way they know to make this happen. So the Govt wants the bans to remain in place for as long as possible. At the very least, they want the perception of water shortage to continue for as long as possible. Hence they won't publicise the lifting of hosepipe bans - and they force the water companies to do the same (albeit they are required by law to at least put a small display ad in the local paper to say that the ban is lifted). |
UK drought - end in sight
"Stan The Man" wrote in message ... Try this: the Govt needs to force us to use less water, whether it rains or not. They want us to continue to use less water, whether it rains or not. Hosepipe bans are the only way they know to make this happen. So the Govt wants the bans to remain in place for as long as possible. At the very least, they want the perception of water shortage to continue for as long as possible. Hence they won't publicise the lifting of hosepipe bans - and they force the water companies to do the same (albeit they are required by law to at least put a small display ad in the local paper to say that the ban is lifted). Why do you think all this? |
UK drought - end in sight
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message ... "Stan The Man" wrote in message Fortunately, the advance of water metering presents the water compnaies with a dichotomy. If we are brainwashed into using less water, the water industry gets less revenue from metered properties. Fokestone & Dover water company, which lifted its hosepipe ban this month, has a vested interest in doing so because it announced earlier this year that all its customers would be compulsorily metered. I'm seeking clarification here. Aren't water metres (and thus payment for water) a standard thing in all city locations No. Mad, isn't it! or are they just being introduced across the UK? They've been available for households for quite a few years but there's a lobby which opposes them - no idea why. More people are having them installed though as they see savings in their bills. It's a pity it had to have a financial side but that's the most important part of life for many people :-( Many businesses (perhaps all, I don't know) have to have them. Mary |
UK drought - end in sight
"JennyC" wrote in message ... "Stan The Man" wrote snip We may also expect to see an adaptation of the Australian hosepipe laws whereby hose use is restricted only at certain times of the day or on certain days of the week. Europe has been hit too. France imposed hosepipe bans last year as well, but I think it was allowed to water ones veggies. Food still comes first in France :~)) Jenny We didn't have a hosepipe ban but I didn't use any tap water for the garden and everything was very well watered. We have butts. Food is important to the Fishers too - and according to a grandson who lives in France most French people aren't so interested in good food anyway, they have as many fast food shops as there are here. Mary |
UK drought - end in sight
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net... They've been available for households for quite a few years but there's a lobby which opposes them - no idea why. More people are having them installed though as they see savings in their bills. It's a pity it had to have a financial side but that's the most important part of life for many people :-( Many businesses (perhaps all, I don't know) have to have them. Mary Young couple who are out all day are finding them far cheaper than on the old Rates system One of my daughters, because of the value of her house, was paying a fortune for having an empty house all day and thus not using the water. Water meter installed and hey presto much reduced bills :-)) mike |
UK drought - end in sight
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message ... "Stan The Man" wrote in message Fortunately, the advance of water metering presents the water compnaies with a dichotomy. If we are brainwashed into using less water, the water industry gets less revenue from metered properties. Fokestone & Dover water company, which lifted its hosepipe ban this month, has a vested interest in doing so because it announced earlier this year that all its customers would be compulsorily metered. I'm seeking clarification here. Aren't water metres (and thus payment for water) a standard thing in all city locations or are they just being introduced across the UK? Domestic water used always to be paid for as a fixed annual fee related to the value of your property. This is being replaced by water meters where you pay for the amount of water you actually use. Obviously the latter is a firer system and ought to be widely used, but some of the water companies comprehensively buggered the process by using the installation of meters to hike the prices. Thus my Father who has an expensive house because of the sea view but with a small garden which he does not water and a preference for showers over baths found he was paying significantly more for water with a meter than he was for a water rate even though his rates were high and his water usage is low. I presume Essex water has no feet left to shoot itself in :-( Gill M |
UK drought - end in sight
"JennyC" wrote in message ... "Stan The Man" wrote The Isle of Wight provides an interesting test area. When they first introduced compulsory meeting, water consumption per household dropped by around 10% on average - but this figure has gone down every year since so that today, average consumption is only approx 1% less than it was before metering was imposed. That could mean that we have more money and are prepared to spend it on water; or it could mean that the metered water bills were not as scary as folk had feared; or it could mean that everyone is now accustomed to using less water. Maybe it's too cheap? .........households pay 1.2 pence per cubic meter (Telegraph June 2006) http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/aptrix/ofwat...ndyoumarch2000 says: Watering a garden: Assuming a hosepipe for one hour uses approximately 540 litres of water: 70p Those figures do not work. A cu metre of water = 1000 litres. At 1.2p/cu m, 540 litres would cost 6.48p Steve |
UK drought - end in sight
Farm1 writes
"Stan The Man" wrote in message Fortunately, the advance of water metering presents the water compnaies with a dichotomy. If we are brainwashed into using less water, the water industry gets less revenue from metered properties. Fokestone & Dover water company, which lifted its hosepipe ban this month, has a vested interest in doing so because it announced earlier this year that all its customers would be compulsorily metered. I'm seeking clarification here. Aren't water metres (and thus payment for water) a standard thing in all city locations or are they just being introduced across the UK? Payment for water is standard but not water meters -- Kay |
UK drought - end in sight
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message . net... "JennyC" wrote in message ... "Stan The Man" wrote snip We may also expect to see an adaptation of the Australian hosepipe laws whereby hose use is restricted only at certain times of the day or on certain days of the week. Europe has been hit too. France imposed hosepipe bans last year as well, but I think it was allowed to water ones veggies. Food still comes first in France :~)) Jenny We didn't have a hosepipe ban but I didn't use any tap water for the garden and everything was very well watered. We have butts. Food is important to the Fishers too - and according to a grandson who lives in France most French people aren't so interested in good food anyway, they have as many fast food shops as there are here. Mary I suppose it depends whereabouts you are in France. Rural areas seem not to have too many Mac.D's :~)) Jenny |
UK drought - end in sight
In article , "shazzbat" writes: | "JennyC" wrote in message | ... | | Maybe it's too cheap? | .........households pay 1.2 pence per cubic meter (Telegraph June 2006) | | http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/aptrix/ofwat...ndyoumarch2000 | says: | | Watering a garden: Assuming a hosepipe for one hour uses approximately 540 | litres of water: 70p | | Those figures do not work. A cu metre of water = 1000 litres. | At 1.2p/cu m, 540 litres would cost 6.48p Really? Try again. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
UK drought - end in sight
"Martin" wrote in message ... On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 14:54:56 +0100, "Mary Fisher" wrote: snip French people aren't so interested in good food anyway, they have as many fast food shops as there are here. The French have a lot more good restaurants with reasonable prices. Martin Yeah :~)) I am dieting in anticipation :~) Jenny |
UK drought - end in sight
Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article , "shazzbat" writes: "JennyC" wrote in message ... Maybe it's too cheap? .........households pay 1.2 pence per cubic meter (Telegraph June 2006) http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/aptrix/ofwat...ndyoumarch2000 says: Watering a garden: Assuming a hosepipe for one hour uses approximately 540 litres of water: 70p Those figures do not work. A cu metre of water = 1000 litres. At 1.2p/cu m, 540 litres would cost 6.48p Really? Try again. This is great. It's getting cheaper all the time! |
UK drought - end in sight
"shazzbat" wrote in message ... "JennyC" wrote in message ... "Stan The Man" wrote The Isle of Wight provides an interesting test area. When they first introduced compulsory meeting, water consumption per household dropped by around 10% on average - but this figure has gone down every year since so that today, average consumption is only approx 1% less than it was before metering was imposed. That could mean that we have more money and are prepared to spend it on water; or it could mean that the metered water bills were not as scary as folk had feared; or it could mean that everyone is now accustomed to using less water. Maybe it's too cheap? .........households pay 1.2 pence per cubic meter (Telegraph June 2006) http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/aptrix/ofwat...ndyoumarch2000 says: Watering a garden: Assuming a hosepipe for one hour uses approximately 540 litres of water: 70p Those figures do not work. A cu metre of water = 1000 litres. At 1.2p/cu m, 540 litres would cost 6.48p Steve I know. info from two different sites........just making sure you were not napping after Sunday lunch :~) Jenny |
UK drought - end in sight
In article
, Farm1 please@askifyouwannaknow wrote: "Stan The Man" wrote in message Fortunately, the advance of water metering presents the water compnaies with a dichotomy. If we are brainwashed into using less water, the water industry gets less revenue from metered properties. Fokestone & Dover water company, which lifted its hosepipe ban this month, has a vested interest in doing so because it announced earlier this year that all its customers would be compulsorily metered. I'm seeking clarification here. Aren't water metres (and thus payment for water) a standard thing in all city locations or are they just being introduced across the UK? Only a couple of small areas in the UK currently are compulsorily metered - the Isle of Wight and (in process) Folkestone & Dover water supply area. Domestic properties, that is - all industrial/commercial properties are metered. In other areas, anyone can opt to have a meter installed - or the local water authority can unilaterally install one when a property changes ownership. All new build homes are metered. OFWAT says that 28% of UK homes were metered in 2005/6 and forecast that this would rise to 30% in 2007. The Govt wants everyone to be metered but is shying away from legislation to enforce it. |
UK drought - end in sight
In article , Mary
Fisher wrote: "Stan The Man" wrote in message ... Try this: the Govt needs to force us to use less water, whether it rains or not. They want us to continue to use less water, whether it rains or not. Hosepipe bans are the only way they know to make this happen. So the Govt wants the bans to remain in place for as long as possible. At the very least, they want the perception of water shortage to continue for as long as possible. Hence they won't publicise the lifting of hosepipe bans - and they force the water companies to do the same (albeit they are required by law to at least put a small display ad in the local paper to say that the ban is lifted). Why do you think all this? I don't think it, I know it. I have had numerous discussions directly with Defra, the Environment Agency and the water compnaies in the south-east. They all admit privately that hosepipe bans are a sham - nothing more than a publicity device. And that all current hosepipe bans have been illegally enforced because the legislation requires that the only justification for such bans is a shortage of rainfall. Water company pipe leaks and over-development of the south-east are not acceptable by law as reasons to impose water restrictions. If you have a few days, I can list any number of documents by way of evidence to prove that the Environment Agency is manipulating the rainfall figures, misrepresenting the cause and benefits of hosepipe bans and leveraging the water companies to their own political ends. |
UK drought - end in sight
"Stan The Man" wrote in message ... In article , Mary Fisher wrote: "Stan The Man" wrote in message ... Try this: the Govt needs to force us to use less water, whether it rains or not. They want us to continue to use less water, whether it rains or not. Hosepipe bans are the only way they know to make this happen. So the Govt wants the bans to remain in place for as long as possible. At the very least, they want the perception of water shortage to continue for as long as possible. Hence they won't publicise the lifting of hosepipe bans - and they force the water companies to do the same (albeit they are required by law to at least put a small display ad in the local paper to say that the ban is lifted). Why do you think all this? I don't think it, I know it. I have had numerous discussions directly with Defra, the Environment Agency and the water compnaies in the south-east. They all admit privately that hosepipe bans are a sham - nothing more than a publicity device. And that all current hosepipe bans have been illegally enforced because the legislation requires that the only justification for such bans is a shortage of rainfall. Water company pipe leaks and over-development of the south-east are not acceptable by law as reasons to impose water restrictions. If you have a few days, I can list any number of documents by way of evidence to prove that the Environment Agency is manipulating the rainfall figures, misrepresenting the cause and benefits of hosepipe bans and leveraging the water companies to their own political ends. No, I can't be bothered. But I can't understand why if there's such a plot that it doesn't seem that anyone has been fined for using hosepipes. I have friends in the south east and they've all used hosepipes for watering gardens, filling a swimming pool and filling children's paddling pools. The plot isn't working. |
UK drought - end in sight
"mike" wrote in message ... "Mary Fisher" wrote in message . net... They've been available for households for quite a few years but there's a lobby which opposes them - no idea why. More people are having them installed though as they see savings in their bills. It's a pity it had to have a financial side but that's the most important part of life for many people :-( Many businesses (perhaps all, I don't know) have to have them. Mary Young couple who are out all day are finding them far cheaper than on the old Rates system One of my daughters, because of the value of her house, was paying a fortune for having an empty house all day and thus not using the water. Water meter installed and hey presto much reduced bills :-)) We're in all day and as a beekeeper I used a huge amount of water to wash honey extracting, filtering, storage equipment and jars as well as cleaning the rooms. Our water bills with a meter were lower than when we had water rates. Now that I don't have to do that they're minuscule. Mary mike |
UK drought - end in sight
Gill Matthews wrote: ... Thus my Father who has an expensive house because of the sea view but with a small garden which he does not water and a preference for showers over baths found he was paying significantly more for water with a meter than he was for a water rate even though his rates were high and his water usage is low. Has he checked his meter readings versus estimated usage or compared with someone similar? Thames Water installed my meter with on oversized coupling on my side that leaked furiously (though only at night). After spending ages proving to myself it wasn't in my 120-yo pipes, I got them to dig up the meter and behold... Chris |
UK drought - end in sight
"Stan The Man" wrote in message ... The Govt wants everyone to be metered but is shying away from legislation to enforce it. If that's true I think it's the first policy I've agreed with. But they should get on and do it instead of shilly-shallying. Mary |
UK drought - end in sight
"JennyC" wrote in message ... "Mary Fisher" wrote in message . net... "JennyC" wrote in message ... Food is important to the Fishers too - and according to a grandson who lives in France most French people aren't so interested in good food anyway, they have as many fast food shops as there are here. Mary I suppose it depends whereabouts you are in France. Rural areas seem not to have too many Mac.D's :~)) They're in a rural area :-) Mary Jenny |
UK drought - end in sight
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UK drought - end in sight
"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
... As to hose pipe bans, we have not had one since the meter was fitted but I have a letter on file somewhere from SWW stating that any ban would not apply to metered properties, don't know whether that is still the case , but would have to agree some clarity would be good as you only have to read the numerous threads on here all offering different interpretations :~) -- Charlie, gardening in Cornwall. http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and Lapageria rosea I brought that question up on both hoses on well water and hoses on water butts "What part of Hose Pipe ban do you not understand" was the retort by some clever Dick :-(( Still don't know which and when hose pipes can be used, but with 8 water butts we are OK :-)) Mike -- .................................................. ......... Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association www.rnshipmates.co.uk www.nsrafa.com |
UK drought - end in sight
"JennyC" wrote in message ... "Stan The Man" wrote The Isle of Wight provides an interesting test area. When they first introduced compulsory meeting, water consumption per household dropped by around 10% on average - but this figure has gone down every year since so that today, average consumption is only approx 1% less than it was before metering was imposed. That could mean that we have more money and are prepared to spend it on water; or it could mean that the metered water bills were not as scary as folk had feared; or it could mean that everyone is now accustomed to using less water. Maybe it's too cheap? .........households pay 1.2 pence per cubic meter (Telegraph June 2006) http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/aptrix/ofwat...ndyoumarch2000 says: Watering a garden: Assuming a hosepipe for one hour uses approximately 540 litres of water: 70p Jenny I have had a meter for years but do not need to use it thank goodness, your 1.2p is a typo, the rate in SW area is £1.247 per M3 and that is just the water charge it costs much more if you are on mains drainage for them to take it away again( I am not, so I am not sure what it is currently, but it was twice the cost of the water), so not only are you going to pay a lot more than 70p for an hours watering you will be paying for them to treat water that they do not get back. As to hose pipe bans, we have not had one since the meter was fitted but I have a letter on file somewhere from SWW stating that any ban would not apply to metered properties, don't know whether that is still the case , but would have to agree some clarity would be good as you only have to read the numerous threads on here all offering different interpretations :~) -- Charlie, gardening in Cornwall. http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and Lapageria rosea |
UK drought - end in sight
In article , Mary
Fisher wrote: "Stan The Man" wrote in message ... In article , Mary Fisher wrote: "Stan The Man" wrote in message ... Try this: the Govt needs to force us to use less water, whether it rains or not. They want us to continue to use less water, whether it rains or not. Hosepipe bans are the only way they know to make this happen. So the Govt wants the bans to remain in place for as long as possible. At the very least, they want the perception of water shortage to continue for as long as possible. Hence they won't publicise the lifting of hosepipe bans - and they force the water companies to do the same (albeit they are required by law to at least put a small display ad in the local paper to say that the ban is lifted). Why do you think all this? I don't think it, I know it. I have had numerous discussions directly with Defra, the Environment Agency and the water compnaies in the south-east. They all admit privately that hosepipe bans are a sham - nothing more than a publicity device. And that all current hosepipe bans have been illegally enforced because the legislation requires that the only justification for such bans is a shortage of rainfall. Water company pipe leaks and over-development of the south-east are not acceptable by law as reasons to impose water restrictions. If you have a few days, I can list any number of documents by way of evidence to prove that the Environment Agency is manipulating the rainfall figures, misrepresenting the cause and benefits of hosepipe bans and leveraging the water companies to their own political ends. No, I can't be bothered. But I can't understand why if there's such a plot that it doesn't seem that anyone has been fined for using hosepipes. I have friends in the south east and they've all used hosepipes for watering gardens, filling a swimming pool and filling children's paddling pools. The plot isn't working. Firstly, filling swimming pools and paddling pools with a hosepipe is perfectly legal during a hosepipe ban -- as our national newspapers have gleefully pointed out in the spring when the hosepipe restrictions were extended. The law specifies that the only hosepipe activities which can be restricted during a ban are the direct watering of gardens or washing of vehicles from the mains supply. (Hence the need to update the legislation and get rid of the anomalies.) Secondly, the water compnaies don't want to fine anyone - their PR this year has been bad enough without taking money from little old ladies. Thirdly, they can't fine anyone anyway unless they can prove that a hosepipe was connected to the mains supply at the time of the alleged infringement. A defence lawyer would simply say that the hosepipe was connected to a water butt, not the mains supply and its use was therefore legal. Hence, no cases brought because they are unwinnable. Fourthly, your friends may not be saving water but others are - allegedly there has been a 10% reduction in water consumption with all the ballyhoo ...and that was enough for Thames Water to withdraw their August application for a drought order. |
UK drought - end in sight
In article , Charlie Pridham
wrote: "JennyC" wrote in message ... "Stan The Man" wrote The Isle of Wight provides an interesting test area. When they first introduced compulsory meeting, water consumption per household dropped by around 10% on average - but this figure has gone down every year since so that today, average consumption is only approx 1% less than it was before metering was imposed. That could mean that we have more money and are prepared to spend it on water; or it could mean that the metered water bills were not as scary as folk had feared; or it could mean that everyone is now accustomed to using less water. Maybe it's too cheap? .........households pay 1.2 pence per cubic meter (Telegraph June 2006) http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/aptrix/ofwat...ndyoumarch2000 says: Watering a garden: Assuming a hosepipe for one hour uses approximately 540 litres of water: 70p Jenny I have had a meter for years but do not need to use it thank goodness, your 1.2p is a typo, the rate in SW area is £1.247 per M3 and that is just the water charge it costs much more if you are on mains drainage for them to take it away again( I am not, so I am not sure what it is currently, but it was twice the cost of the water), so not only are you going to pay a lot more than 70p for an hours watering you will be paying for them to treat water that they do not get back. As to hose pipe bans, we have not had one since the meter was fitted but I have a letter on file somewhere from SWW stating that any ban would not apply to metered properties, don't know whether that is still the case , but would have to agree some clarity would be good as you only have to read the numerous threads on here all offering different interpretations :~) The 8 water companies in the SE who have imposed hosepipe bans have not made any exceptions for metered properties - primarily because it would make policing the ban virtually impossible, and snooping pointless. |
UK drought - end in sight
In article , mike wrote:
"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message ... As to hose pipe bans, we have not had one since the meter was fitted but I have a letter on file somewhere from SWW stating that any ban would not apply to metered properties, don't know whether that is still the case , but would have to agree some clarity would be good as you only have to read the numerous threads on here all offering different interpretations :~) -- Charlie, gardening in Cornwall. http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and Lapageria rosea I brought that question up on both hoses on well water and hoses on water butts "What part of Hose Pipe ban do you not understand" was the retort by some clever Dick :-(( Still don't know which and when hose pipes can be used, but with 8 water butts we are OK :-)) Typical disinformation from the water companies. Hosepipes are not banned under a hosepipe ban - only two hosepipe uses can be banned. Any application which doesn't take water directly from the mains supply is permitted. And so are many applications which do take mains water, eg washing down a path or building, filling a trough or any other container, mixing cement, washing the dog, children's water fights, using a pressure washer (except on vehicles), etc, etc. To be clear, the only restricted activities are the direct delivery of mains water to the garden via a hosepipe or irrigation system; and the cleaning of private vehicles. |
UK drought - end in sight
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... In article , "shazzbat" writes: | "JennyC" wrote in message | ... | | Maybe it's too cheap? | .........households pay 1.2 pence per cubic meter (Telegraph June 2006) | | http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/aptrix/ofwat...ndyoumarch2000 | says: | | Watering a garden: Assuming a hosepipe for one hour uses approximately 540 | litres of water: 70p | | Those figures do not work. A cu metre of water = 1000 litres. | At 1.2p/cu m, 540 litres would cost 6.48p Really? Try again. Lol, I made a typo with the decimal point. But my point stands. No moving the . will make the original example correct. Steve |
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