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wildflowers
I would like to turn one corner of the garden and possibly down the
drive into a wildflower patch and cannot decide which to use, seeds or plugs, any advice or thoughts appreciated kate |
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"Gill Matthews" Try the wrote in message T... In article , says... I would like to turn one corner of the garden and possibly down the drive into a wildflower patch and cannot decide which to use, seeds or plugs, any advice or thoughts appreciated kate It depends how much control you want over the final look, and how much time you want to give it to achieve the 'meadow look' Yes: it does take more work than is always realised. My experience was that, even with the deliberately impoverished soil you need, the grasses gradually took over. I'd go for seed rather than plugs, because you need so many plants: most of my wild flowers were started off in seed trays, just as for any other flowers. One needs to be aware of some of the dangers, too. I'm very fond of orange hawkweed, for example, and included it in my patch; but it soon spread to the "civilised" areas of the garden, and caused deep mourning. -- Mike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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Kate Morgan writes
I would like to turn one corner of the garden and possibly down the drive into a wildflower patch and cannot decide which to use, seeds or plugs, any advice or thoughts appreciated Arguments for seeds: Plugs are more expensive - possibly prohibitive for a large area Seeds are can be more fun, and give greater sense of pride Seeds may be easier to source Arguments for plugs Plugs transfer the risks of non-germination or damping off from you to the nurseryman. If you are trying to plant into grass, plugs give a greater chance of success (still better to strip the grass and start from scratch) Emerging seedlings are susceptible to slugs (but of course you can grow your own plugs from seed) -- Kay |
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Kate Morgan wrote:
I would like to turn one corner of the garden and possibly down the drive into a wildflower patch and cannot decide which to use, seeds or plugs, any advice or thoughts appreciated kate I did that a couple of years ago with a strip of south facing garden. Ibought two different packets of 'wild flower' seeds, I think from B & Q. mixed them up, and sprinkled onto the raked soil. Lightly covered with a fine compost and let nature do it's thing. It provided a wonderful display. :) -- ßôyþëtë |
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"K" wrote in message ... Kate Morgan writes I would like to turn one corner of the garden and possibly down the drive into a wildflower patch and cannot decide which to use, seeds or plugs, any advice or thoughts appreciated Arguments for seeds: Plugs are more expensive - possibly prohibitive for a large area Seeds are can be more fun, and give greater sense of pride Seeds may be easier to source Arguments for plugs Plugs transfer the risks of non-germination or damping off from you to the nurseryman. If you are trying to plant into grass, plugs give a greater chance of success (still better to strip the grass and start from scratch) Emerging seedlings are susceptible to slugs (but of course you can grow your own plugs from seed) Kay Maybe a combination of both :~)) I have a couple of packets of wildflower seed bought a couple of years ago in Canada.....I wonder if they are still viable? Jenny |
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One needs to be aware of some of the dangers, too. I'm very fond of orange hawkweed, for example, and included it in my patch; but it soon spread to the "civilised" areas of the garden, and caused deep mourning. -- Mike. LOL, I did this once with Teasels, I was not very popular :-) kate |
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Kate Morgan wrote:
I would like to turn one corner of the garden and possibly down the drive into a wildflower patch and cannot decide which to use, seeds or plugs, any advice or thoughts appreciated kate Thank you all for your input and suggestions, I think that I will go with seed, plug plants are expensive compared to a packet of seeds :-) kate |
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Kate Morgan wrote:
Kate Morgan wrote: I would like to turn one corner of the garden and possibly down the drive into a wildflower patch and cannot decide which to use, seeds or plugs, any advice or thoughts appreciated kate Thank you all for your input and suggestions, I think that I will go with seed, plug plants are expensive compared to a packet of seeds :-) kate I presume you intend native wildflowers? In which case, try to check the source of the seed. Some packs of 'native' wildflower seeds actually originate from outside the UK. These seeds, while the same species as the UK natives are often genetically distinct. Using such seeds risks diluting the true, distinct UK native gene pool. Not at all clear what the long term consequences could be but generally genetic diversity is a good thing and diluting distinct genetic populations is probably a bad thing. For example, the UK varieties are probably prefered by UK insects and more resistant to UK pests and diseases. -- Larry Stoter |
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Larry Stoter wrote:
In which case, try to check the source of the seed. Some packs of 'native' wildflower seeds actually originate from outside the UK. Best value I ever bought was some packs of "wildflower" seeds from Buckfast Abbey gift shop in Devon. About 4 oz of mixed seeds for £1.99. I had trouble identifying some of the things that came up, but cornflower and yellow rattle dominated one packet. |
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Thank you all for your input and suggestions, I think that I will go with seed, plug plants are expensive compared to a packet of seeds :-) kate I presume you intend native wildflowers? In which case, try to check the source of the seed. Some packs of 'native' wildflower seeds actually originate from outside the UK. These seeds, while the same species as the UK natives are often genetically distinct. Using such seeds risks diluting the true, distinct UK native gene pool. Not at all clear what the long term consequences could be but generally genetic diversity is a good thing and diluting distinct genetic populations is probably a bad thing. For example, the UK varieties are probably prefered by UK insects and more resistant to UK pests and diseases. Yes indeed I do intend going for natives and thank you for that advice and information. kate |
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"Larry Stoter" wrote in message [...] I presume you intend native wildflowers? In which case, try to check the source of the seed. Some packs of 'native' wildflower seeds actually originate from outside the UK. These seeds, while the same species as the UK natives are often genetically distinct. Using such seeds risks diluting the true, distinct UK native gene pool. Not at all clear what the long term consequences could be but generally genetic diversity is a good thing and diluting distinct genetic populations is probably a bad thing. For example, the UK varieties are probably prefered by UK insects and more resistant to UK pests and diseases. Good point. I can't remember the details, but there was an interesting case with, I think, primroses. IIRC, a particular strain in the northern Hebrides flowered at a very slightly different time, which provided invertebrates exactly when they were wanted during the local birds' breeding timetable. An introduced, but still British, strain was a couple of weeks wrong, and the effect was measurable. That's extreme, of course: I don't think many mainland ecosystems are anything like that delicate -- I wouldn't worry much about, say, "average" English seed in an "average" Scottish garden. -- Mike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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"Kate Morgan" wrote [Mike L]: One needs to be aware of some of the dangers, too. I'm very fond of orange hawkweed, for example, and included it in my patch; but it soon spread to the "civilised" areas of the garden, and caused deep mourning. LOL, I did this once with Teasels, I was not very popular :-) Ditto with Restharrow in my wild area. It's pretty and the bees love it, but by george it does spread once it gets going! -- Sue |
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On 13/1/07 16:16, in article , "Kate
Morgan" wrote: One needs to be aware of some of the dangers, too. I'm very fond of orange hawkweed, for example, and included it in my patch; but it soon spread to the "civilised" areas of the garden, and caused deep mourning. -- Mike. LOL, I did this once with Teasels, I was not very popular :-) I bet you were with the gold finches! We get them drifting into our garden from the hedgerows and always leave just one or two for the birds. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/ |
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"Mike Lyle" wrote "Larry Stoter" wrote in message [...] I presume you intend native wildflowers? In which case, try to check the source of the seed. Some packs of 'native' wildflower seeds actually originate from outside the UK. snip For example, the UK varieties are probably prefered by UK insects and more resistant to UK pests and diseases. Good point. I can't remember the details, but there was an interesting case with, I think, primroses. IIRC, a particular strain in the northern Hebrides flowered at a very slightly different time, which provided invertebrates exactly when they were wanted during the local birds' breeding timetable. An introduced, but still British, strain was a couple of weeks wrong, and the effect was measurable. That's extreme, of course: I don't think many mainland ecosystems are anything like that delicate -- I wouldn't worry much about, say, "average" English seed in an "average" Scottish garden. In this respect you may well find that wild flower nurseries in your area make a point of raising as much of their stock as possible from relatively locally harvested seed/ material. I also had some sound advice from a couple of quite small, tucked away local nurseries about what would grow in my particular conditions when I was trying to get my wild area established, so it's a good idea to seek them out and chat to the owners about what you're trying to do - they're often only too glad to help. Kate, if you'd like any Red Campion seed from E Anglia, I have some left from last year's flowering that you're welcome to. -- Sue |
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On 13/1/07 17:36, in article
, " wrote: Larry Stoter wrote: In which case, try to check the source of the seed. Some packs of 'native' wildflower seeds actually originate from outside the UK. Best value I ever bought was some packs of "wildflower" seeds from Buckfast Abbey gift shop in Devon. About 4 oz of mixed seeds for ?1.99. I had trouble identifying some of the things that came up, but cornflower and yellow rattle dominated one packet. That's about 15 minutes from us. If it's of any help to anyone, I'd be happy to buy seeds and post them on to those who wants them. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/ |
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Mike raised the point of grasses dominating - to hep prevent this make
sure you have some Yellow rattle - which is a parasite of grasses. The seed is expensive, is often included in blends, but if the mix is lacking - then this is a cse in question for using plugs over seed Clifford Bawtry, Doncaster |
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Kate Morgan wrote: I would like to turn one corner of the garden and possibly down the drive into a wildflower patch and cannot decide which to use, seeds or plugs, any advice or thoughts appreciated Out of curiosity, what are the approx dimensions of your 'corner'? It's important so that you know how much seeds to use (taking into account the self seeding). We successfully did a meadow 5mx7m by a block of flats in the city centre and in it's 3rd year it was beautiful. We made another one about 7 years ago, and now the camomille is taking over - that's because we didn't really think about the dimensions to start with! We've used no grass seeds, because it will smother all your seeds eventually (and also attracts slugs) but also once you cut (3 times a year your mini meadow) the dead grass will prevent your flowers to grow and moss will settle underneath. Plugs are expensive and as K said and so much more prone to slugs. I lost myself in this meadow last year in Longford park in Manchester, at its 'white' peak, after it was 'yellow' and then 'red and blue' :o) http://cjoint.com/?bos1Tgs8Ub |
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cliff_the_gardener wrote:
Mike raised the point of grasses dominating - to hep prevent this make sure you have some Yellow rattle - which is a parasite of grasses. The seed is expensive, is often included in blends, but if the mix is lacking - then this is a cse in question for using plugs over seed Clifford Bawtry, Doncaster I collected some yellow rattle seed myself from a local reserve and spread in my 'meadow' area. Not only did it do very well but the effect on the grass is very obvious - half the height in those patches with yellow rattle compared with areas without yellow rattle. -- Larry Stoter |
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Kate, if you'd like any Red Campion seed from E Anglia, I have some left from last year's flowering that you're welcome to. Sorry I have been so long answering, gremlins in my p.c. all better now I hope. Thank you for your kind offer but I do have some Red Campion, it strayed in from the lane, honest :-) but it was kind of you to offer. kate |
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Kate Morgan wrote: I would like to turn one corner of the garden and possibly down the drive into a wildflower patch and cannot decide which to use, seeds or plugs, any advice or thoughts appreciated Out of curiosity, what are the approx dimensions of your 'corner'? It's important so that you know how much seeds to use (taking into account the self seeding). We successfully did a meadow 5mx7m by a block of flats in the city centre and in it's 3rd year it was beautiful. We made another one about 7 years ago, and now the camomille is taking over - I havnt really decided how much to let go to the wild, we have a big old lilac tree and a old stone wall and I thought that wild flowers would look good, also my husband moans every time he mows the lawn under the tree :-) kate |
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Kate Morgan wrote: I havnt really decided how much to let go to the wild, we have a big old lilac tree and a old stone wall and I thought that wild flowers would look good, also my husband moans every time he mows the lawn under the tree :-) I understand why you asked whether plugs would be an idea! It looks like you've got a good lawn there and the lilac tree next to the stone wall sounds just like a corner of my front garden! You could give the 'effect' of what you want to do with plugs indeed if you don't want to mess up your lawn for a meadow. I have used verbena bonariensis against our wall, scabiosa here and there, pimpernella saxifraga, thistles and marguerites (lots). I do nothing to it except enjoy and use as cut flowers in summer. You'll have to 'group' them or they'll get mowed by your husband! |
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La Puce wrote: I do nothing to it except enjoy and use as cut flowers in summer. You'll have to 'group' them or they'll get mowed by your husband! Yes this is so - my partner mowed all the bulbs in the lawn before they flowered by mistake |
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La Puce writes
Kate Morgan wrote: I havnt really decided how much to let go to the wild, we have a big old lilac tree and a old stone wall and I thought that wild flowers would look good, also my husband moans every time he mows the lawn under the tree :-) I understand why you asked whether plugs would be an idea! It looks like you've got a good lawn there and the lilac tree next to the stone wall sounds just like a corner of my front garden! You could give the 'effect' of what you want to do with plugs indeed if you don't want to mess up your lawn for a meadow. I have used verbena bonariensis against our wall, scabiosa here and there, pimpernella saxifraga, thistles and marguerites (lots). I do nothing to it except enjoy and use as cut flowers in summer. You'll have to 'group' them or they'll get mowed by your husband! Though as La Puce says, this is the wild flower 'effect' not the real thing as most of these are not UK natives. -- Kay |
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Kate Morgan writes
Kate Morgan wrote: I would like to turn one corner of the garden and possibly down the drive into a wildflower patch and cannot decide which to use, seeds or plugs, any advice or thoughts appreciated Out of curiosity, what are the approx dimensions of your 'corner'? It's important so that you know how much seeds to use (taking into account the self seeding). We successfully did a meadow 5mx7m by a block of flats in the city centre and in it's 3rd year it was beautiful. We made another one about 7 years ago, and now the camomille is taking over - I havnt really decided how much to let go to the wild, we have a big old lilac tree and a old stone wall and I thought that wild flowers would look good, also my husband moans every time he mows the lawn under the tree :-) If you're planting under the lilac tree, you'll need woodland plants to cope with the lack of light and the shade. Try red campion, stitchwort, woodruff, astrantia, wood vetch. Primroses, wood anemones for spring (avoid bluebells - their leaves are too much in the way later on). Not native here but with the right 'feel', small hardy cyclamen - hederifolium for autumn and coum for spring. -- Kay |
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On 16/1/07 17:38, in article , "K"
wrote: Kate Morgan writes Kate Morgan wrote: I would like to turn one corner of the garden and possibly down the drive into a wildflower patch and cannot decide which to use, seeds or plugs, any advice or thoughts appreciated Out of curiosity, what are the approx dimensions of your 'corner'? It's important so that you know how much seeds to use (taking into account the self seeding). We successfully did a meadow 5mx7m by a block of flats in the city centre and in it's 3rd year it was beautiful. We made another one about 7 years ago, and now the camomille is taking over - I havnt really decided how much to let go to the wild, we have a big old lilac tree and a old stone wall and I thought that wild flowers would look good, also my husband moans every time he mows the lawn under the tree :-) If you're planting under the lilac tree, you'll need woodland plants to cope with the lack of light and the shade. Try red campion, stitchwort, woodruff, astrantia, wood vetch. Primroses, wood anemones for spring (avoid bluebells - their leaves are too much in the way later on). Not native here but with the right 'feel', small hardy cyclamen - hederifolium for autumn and coum for spring. This one site gives its native wild flower 100% Native British mixture as containing: "Species include:- Achillea millefolium, Agrostemma githago, Betula erecta, Chrysanthemum leucanthemum, Chrysanthemum segatum, Cynoglossum officinale, Digitalis purpurea, Dipascus fullonum, Legousia hybrida, Lobularia maritime, Lunaria annua, Lupinus albus, Malva moschata, Malva sylvestris, Papaver rhoeas, Polygonum latifolium, Reseda lutea, Salvia pratensis, Tanacetum vulgare, Tamus communis." http://www.nickys-nursery.co.uk/seed...le/mixture.htm -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/ (remove weeds from address) |
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K wrote: Though as La Puce says, this is the wild flower 'effect' not the real thing as most of these are not UK natives. I'm curious, which of the flowers I have mentioned, vervain, scabious, pimpernella, thistles, (beside marguerites) are not native to the British Isles? |
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La Puce writes
K wrote: Though as La Puce says, this is the wild flower 'effect' not the real thing as most of these are not UK natives. I'm curious, which of the flowers I have mentioned, vervain, scabious, pimpernella, thistles, (beside marguerites) are not native to the British Isles? Of the 5 you mentioned in your original post, only one is unequivocally native: Verbena bonariensis and marguerites are not native. "Pimpernella saxifraga" - I assume you mean Pimpinella saxifraga - is native. Scabiosa and thistles may or may not be native depending on species - you didn't specify which. You didn't mention vervain(1) in your previous post Not everyone reading this thread is familiar with the wild flora, and they might be a bit narked, if they want wild as in UK native, to find that some of the plants they have planted aren't actually UK natives. If they're just after the wild look, then, eg, V bonariensis fits the bill. (1) Vervain is Verbena officinalis -- Kay |
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"K" wrote in message ... La Puce writes K wrote: Though as La Puce says, this is the wild flower 'effect' not the real thing as most of these are not UK natives. I'm curious, which of the flowers I have mentioned, vervain, scabious, pimpernella, thistles, (beside marguerites) are not native to the British Isles? Of the 5 you mentioned in your original post, only one is unequivocally native: Verbena bonariensis and marguerites are not native. "Pimpernella saxifraga" - I assume you mean Pimpinella saxifraga - is native. Scabiosa and thistles may or may not be native depending on species - you didn't specify which. You didn't mention vervain(1) in your previous post Not everyone reading this thread is familiar with the wild flora, and they might be a bit narked, if they want wild as in UK native, to find that some of the plants they have planted aren't actually UK natives. If they're just after the wild look, then, eg, V bonariensis fits the bill. (1) Vervain is Verbena officinalis -- Kay I too was wondering what on the list was native. I have never seen fields of V.bonariensis but it would be a spectacular sight :-) |
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On 17/1/07 21:40, in article , "Rupert (W.Yorkshire)"
wrote: "K" wrote in message ... La Puce writes K wrote: Though as La Puce says, this is the wild flower 'effect' not the real thing as most of these are not UK natives. I'm curious, which of the flowers I have mentioned, vervain, scabious, pimpernella, thistles, (beside marguerites) are not native to the British Isles? Of the 5 you mentioned in your original post, only one is unequivocally native: Verbena bonariensis and marguerites are not native. "Pimpernella saxifraga" - I assume you mean Pimpinella saxifraga - is native. Scabiosa and thistles may or may not be native depending on species - you didn't specify which. You didn't mention vervain(1) in your previous post Not everyone reading this thread is familiar with the wild flora, and they might be a bit narked, if they want wild as in UK native, to find that some of the plants they have planted aren't actually UK natives. If they're just after the wild look, then, eg, V bonariensis fits the bill. (1) Vervain is Verbena officinalis -- Kay I too was wondering what on the list was native. I have never seen fields of V.bonariensis but it would be a spectacular sight :-) Especially when grown with that other well known native, Cephalaria gigantica. ;-) -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/ (remove weeds from address) |
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"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" wrote "K" wrote Not everyone reading this thread is familiar with the wild flora, and they might be a bit narked, if they want wild as in UK native, to find that some of the plants they have planted aren't actually UK natives. If they're just after the wild look, then, eg, V bonariensis fits the bill. (1) Vervain is Verbena officinalis I too was wondering what on the list was native. I have never seen fields of V.bonariensis but it would be a spectacular sight :-) If I didn't weed out all the seedlings it produces in the gravely, sandy stuff that passes itself off as soil in my front garden I *would* have a field of it! With the recent mild winters V.b. surprised me by turning into a bit of a nuisance there, but I still forgive it once it flowers and attracts passing butterflies. Re natives for wild areas, blue Meadow Cranesbill (Geranium pratense) and tall, yellow Dark Mullein (Verbascum nigrum) make a colourful addition in sunnier areas, together with Toadflax (Linaria vulgaris) which is good for it's later flowering. In a shadier place I'd also try Helleborus foetidus as I like the greenish flowers and distinctive foliage, and native foxgloves practically go without saying. Snowdrops I believe are thought not to be genuine original Brits but they do look the part and are so widely naturalised that I've put those in for the Spring under the shade of our birch trees. -- Sue |
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K wrote: I'm curious, which of the flowers I have mentioned, vervain, scabious, pimpernella, thistles, (beside marguerites) are not native to the British Isles? Of the 5 you mentioned in your original post, only one is unequivocally native: Verbena bonariensis and marguerites are not native. "Pimpernella saxifraga" - I assume you mean Pimpinella saxifraga - is native. Scabiosa and thistles may or may not be native depending on species - you didn't specify which. You didn't mention vervain(1) in your previous post Not everyone reading this thread is familiar with the wild flora, and they might be a bit narked, if they want wild as in UK native, to find that some of the plants they have planted aren't actually UK natives. If they're just after the wild look, then, eg, V bonariensis fits the bill. (1) Vervain is Verbena officinalis Thanks Kay. Yes you're right, I've never thought of the species in the Vervain and Pimpinella was what I meant. The 'wild look' you mention was very much what I had in mind and I'm never that bothered about UK native, only if there's a grant at the end for a project and I'll make sure all is native!! However, even English Nature propose to plant V.bonariiensis and many others non native. I suppose, like me, they know that the wild life I get in my garden never distinguish between vervain bonariensis or officinalis. Same with the thisles, marguerites and scabiosas ;o) |
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On 18/1/07 12:10, in article
ws.net, "Sue" wrote: "Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" wrote "K" wrote snip I too was wondering what on the list was native. I have never seen fields of V.bonariensis but it would be a spectacular sight :-) If I didn't weed out all the seedlings it produces in the gravely, sandy stuff that passes itself off as soil in my front garden I *would* have a field of it! With the recent mild winters V.b. surprised me by turning into a bit of a nuisance there, but I still forgive it once it flowers and attracts passing butterflies. I love the way it seeds itself all over the place but do agree that sometimes it needs a helping hand in attempts at self-control! Re natives for wild areas, blue Meadow Cranesbill (Geranium pratense) and tall, yellow Dark Mullein (Verbascum nigrum) make a colourful addition in sunnier areas, together with Toadflax (Linaria vulgaris) which is good for it's later flowering. Some of my favourites and so I must admit to a bias when I say I think those would look wonderful together. The OP could also go to the library and get out the book on Highgrove because IIRC, it describes Miriam Rothschild's planting of the wild flower meadow there. In a shadier place I'd also try Helleborus foetidus as I like the greenish flowers and distinctive foliage, and native foxgloves practically go without saying. Snowdrops I believe are thought not to be genuine original Brits but they do look the part and are so widely naturalised that I've put those in for the Spring under the shade of our birch trees. And the real British bluebells would be a good idea, to offset the Spanish takeover bid! -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/ (remove weeds from address) |
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This one site gives its native wild flower 100% Native British mixture as containing: "Species include:- Achillea millefolium, Agrostemma githago, Betula erecta, Chrysanthemum leucanthemum, Chrysanthemum segatum, Cynoglossum officinale, Digitalis purpurea, Dipascus fullonum, Legousia hybrida, Lobularia maritime, Lunaria annua, Lupinus albus, Malva moschata, Malva sylvestris, Papaver rhoeas, Polygonum latifolium, Reseda lutea, Salvia pratensis, Tanacetum vulgare, Tamus communis." http://www.nickys-nursery.co.uk/seed...le/mixture.htm What a good site, thank-you, rather tempted by the garden games too :-) kate |
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"Sacha" wrote "Sue" wrote: Re natives for wild areas, blue Meadow Cranesbill (Geranium pratense) and tall, yellow Dark Mullein (Verbascum nigrum) make a colourful addition in sunnier areas, together with Toadflax (Linaria vulgaris) which is good for it's later flowering. Some of my favourites and so I must admit to a bias when I say I think those would look wonderful together. The OP could also go to the library and get out the book on Highgrove because IIRC, it describes Miriam Rothschild's planting of the wild flower meadow there. I read about her once saying she'd like to get native wild roses growing the length and breadth of the country alongside all the motorways and main roads. Wouldn't that be a splendid sight? It's good to see Councils and contractors are now making more effort to get wild flowers added to the embankments when new roads are made. In a shadier place I'd also try Helleborus foetidus as I like the greenish flowers and distinctive foliage, and native foxgloves practically go without saying. Snowdrops I believe are thought not to be genuine original Brits but they do look the part and are so widely naturalised that I've put those in for the Spring under the shade of our birch trees. And the real British bluebells would be a good idea, to offset the Spanish takeover bid! One of the abiding memories of a holiday at the end of May in Cornwall a couple of years ago, is of verges along little country lanes being awash with real English bluebells, all mixed in with Red Campion. Gorgeous! It was like going through one long winding garden. :-) I hadn't really realised until then how much of a deeper blue and more graceful the genuine things are. All Spanish invaders in my border are now in the process of being repelled! -- Sue |
wildflowers
On 18/1/07 19:41, in article
ws.net, "Sue" wrote: "Sacha" wrote "Sue" wrote: Re natives for wild areas, blue Meadow Cranesbill (Geranium pratense) and tall, yellow Dark Mullein (Verbascum nigrum) make a colourful addition in sunnier areas, together with Toadflax (Linaria vulgaris) which is good for it's later flowering. Some of my favourites and so I must admit to a bias when I say I think those would look wonderful together. The OP could also go to the library and get out the book on Highgrove because IIRC, it describes Miriam Rothschild's planting of the wild flower meadow there. I read about her once saying she'd like to get native wild roses growing the length and breadth of the country alongside all the motorways and main roads. Wouldn't that be a splendid sight? It's good to see Councils and contractors are now making more effort to get wild flowers added to the embankments when new roads are made. We see great sheets of primroses alongside the A38 in our immediate area as we drive towards Exeter. I remember that when I moved over here in 1997 I was just overcome by them. To this day I look out for the first which are usually on a different and more local lane and they just lift my heart. We see huge numbers of ox eye daisies and very rarely (sadly) wild orchids. I can think of many things to grumble at our councils about but care of banks and hedgerows isn't one of them - so far! And in fact, I must make a mental note to write to our local town hall and say so! If I send brickbats, I should also send bouquets. In a shadier place I'd also try Helleborus foetidus as I like the greenish flowers and distinctive foliage, and native foxgloves practically go without saying. Snowdrops I believe are thought not to be genuine original Brits but they do look the part and are so widely naturalised that I've put those in for the Spring under the shade of our birch trees. And the real British bluebells would be a good idea, to offset the Spanish takeover bid! One of the abiding memories of a holiday at the end of May in Cornwall a couple of years ago, is of verges along little country lanes being awash with real English bluebells, all mixed in with Red Campion. Gorgeous! It was like going through one long winding garden. :-) I hadn't really realised until then how much of a deeper blue and more graceful the genuine things are. All Spanish invaders in my border are now in the process of being repelled! Our lanes here - well, I do hope you see them one day in late spring. Ray always says that if you could cut a chunk out of them and take it to Chelsea Flower Show you'd get a Gold, hands down. They're glorious, a miracle of nature. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/ (remove weeds from address) |
wildflowers
La Puce wrote:
snips ... Thanks Kay. Yes you're right, I've never thought of the species in the Vervain and Pimpinella was what I meant. The 'wild look' you mention was very much what I had in mind and I'm never that bothered about UK native, only if there's a grant at the end for a project and I'll make sure all is native!! However, even English Nature propose to plant V.bonariiensis and many others non native. I suppose, like me, they know that the wild life I get in my garden never distinguish between vervain bonariensis or officinalis. Same with the thisles, marguerites and scabiosas ;o) There are good arguments in addition to financial advantage in favour of using native plant species and trying to make sure they are true natives: 1. The local wildlife does distinguish native from non-native. This will be somewhat dependent on how far away from being true native the plant species is but especially in the case of insects, the native insects do know the difference - true native plants species will attract more insects, both in terms of variety of species and overall numbers. And where insects go, birds will follow. Planting true native plant species provides greater food resources for local birds. 2. Genetic diversity - using non-native species risks diluting the local genetic diversity. This may result in local wild plants losing resistance to diseases and pest. There is also the argument that you never know what you have really lost until it's too late. And as the same large commercial suppliers are probably providing the same seed species to many different markets, perhaps several countries, because it costs less, the problem could be more widespread than it appears. 3. Pests and diseases - non-native plant species may bring in pests and diseases, or escape into the wild and become pests themselves. I don't think that just because a government agency is doing something, it means they are right. More likely, a major consideration of theirs is also financial ..... -- Larry Stoter |
wildflowers
Larry Stoter wrote: There are good arguments in addition to financial advantage in favour of using native plant species and trying to make sure they are true natives: 1. The local wildlife does distinguish native from non-native. 80% of people's garden in the UK are planted with imported plants from China, Japan, Canaries Isles, Madeira, regions of the Med. etc. When did the insects started to distinguish natives from non natives? Shouldn't we have no more insects left if they distinguished in the 16th century the mass imported plant species into this country? 2. Genetic diversity - using non-native species risks diluting the local genetic diversity. Taking into consideration the above - monoculture is the culprit into the dessimination of our insects, and wild life in general. Biodiversity is the way forward, in agriculture as well as in private gardens and public spaces. And what does 'romano british' refers to when we look at a 'uk-native' plant such as verbena officinalis? As far as the loss of plants, I blame greedy nurseries and garden centre using vast quantities of chemicals and peat for decades to sell healthy looking plants rapidly. 3. Pests and diseases - non-native plant species may bring in pests and diseases, or escape into the wild and become pests themselves. What pests and diseases the Rhodos. have brought in this country? I don't think that just because a government agency is doing something, it means they are right. More likely, a major consideration of theirs is also financial ..... Financial insentives are in everything everywhere. I do not understand why a company such as English Nature, giving grants (I got 2K pounds 6 years ago for a project) would preach the necessity of using uk native plants (and issue a lil' metal plaque to put on the wall at proximity of the project funded) and still propose to use say Vervain. The whole argument is ridiculous. As I said previously, my butterflies don't distinguish if the marguerites they enjoy come from Perigueux, Chamonix or Pau. If I didn't grow these flowers, I do beleive that some insects would not be there and therefore many birds wouldn't come to my garden. Biodiversity is therefore the solution, and not keeping to 'uk native' or 'non native' argument as it means nothing anymore. |
wildflowers
La Puce writes
Larry Stoter wrote: There are good arguments in addition to financial advantage in favour of using native plant species and trying to make sure they are true natives: 1. The local wildlife does distinguish native from non-native. 80% of people's garden in the UK are planted with imported plants from China, Japan, Canaries Isles, Madeira, regions of the Med. etc. They have those plants in their gardens, but they have natives as well (usually known as 'weeds') When did the insects started to distinguish natives from non natives? Look at the statistics for numbers of species supported by native oaks compared with non-native trees. Compare the speed with which rowans and elder berries are taken with, for example, skimmia, pernettya. Look at the species, eg himalayan balsam, which grow unchecked to pest proportions here when they are not troublesome in their own habitat. Shouldn't we have no more insects left if they distinguished in the 16th century the mass imported plant species into this country? You may be too young to be able to compare the number of butterflies around now with what was around in the 1950s. But as I said, gardens aren't 100% non-native, and gardens do not make up the total of UK land. 3. Pests and diseases - non-native plant species may bring in pests and diseases, or escape into the wild and become pests themselves. What pests and diseases the Rhodos. have brought in this country? Plenty of examples, including dutch elm disease and the current thing that is spreading on rhodos and other trees/bushes - forget its name. -- Kay |
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