vine growers in SE London
I read in a book that in SE London on one allotment site there are
several people who grow lots of vines to make wine. Can anyone tell me where this is? |
vine growers in SE London
"hazchem" wrote in message ups.com... I read in a book that in SE London on one allotment site there are several people who grow lots of vines to make wine. Can anyone tell me where this is? What? So you can nick their grapes ;-^ |
vine growers in SE London
On 21 Apr, 17:47, "R" wrote:
"hazchem" wrote in message ups.com... I read in a book that in SE London on one allotment site there are several people who grow lots of vines to make wine. Can anyone tell me where this is? What? So you can nick their grapes ;-^ Grapes for wine are not usually good to eat. I have several vines on my allotment and I am increasing the number. I would be interested to know how other people solve the problems of vine growing. Vines don't like waterlogged soils in winter (not many plants do) and I solve this problem by growing my vines on ridges. I would like to know how other people solve the problem, or if they see it as a problem. Books don't seem to have much to say on the subject. When I go to Brighton on the train from East Croydon I look out for 2 allotment sites near the tracks. The second of the 2 has a plot seeming to be completely covered in vines. I have had some criticism from the organisers of my allotment site about my plot, and I am concerned that they may not feel that my plot is up to their standards. If they do criticise again, I would like to be able to tell them that many people have mostly vines on their plot and have done so for years with no problems. Hazchem |
vine growers in SE London
On 23 Apr, 14:29, hazchem wrote:
Grapes for wine are not usually good to eat. I have several vines on my allotment and I am increasing the number. I would be interested to know how other people solve the problems of vine growing. Vines don't like waterlogged soils in winter (not many plants do) and I solve this problem by growing my vines on ridges. I would like to know how other people solve the problem, or if they see it as a problem. Books don't seem to have much to say on the subject. When I go to Brighton on the train from East Croydon I look out for 2 allotment sites near the tracks. The second of the 2 has a plot seeming to be completely covered in vines. I have had some criticism from the organisers of my allotment site about my plot, and I am concerned that they may not feel that my plot is up to their standards. If they do criticise again, I would like to be able to tell them that many people have mostly vines on their plot and have done so for years with no problems. New Kent Allotment - there's this chap who's growing grapes since 1982. Check that link. http://www.timeout.com/london/bars/features/2444.html My father in law growns a stranger grape in his greenhouse (Birmingham) - a delicious white dessert grape, sweet and full of flavour, compact small transluscent raisins. Amazing. It's in it's green house, straight from the ground, well protected and deep rooted, a light sandy soil and a very old specimen, but with a fantastic yield. My in laws have beein in this house perhaps 10 years now and found the grape but didn't asked what it was. Interesting you've asked these questions because I want to grow grapes and the lotty is out of the question. The requirements now to plant fruit trees, new sheds, hedge etc. is so laborious, I don't even want to go there. So I thought against my house which is a perfect place, 16m of south facing wall. I will need to start working on the soil very soon for next year - I'm looking at totally changing the soil since I've got tarmac, followed by rubble, then sand etc. It is going to be quite a project but we've started working on the trellis, which will form part of a pergola running all along the side of the house where I want the grapes to grow. I thought 2 grapes would do, ideally a white one and a red one. Now how/what soil would you start with? What type of layers? I live in Manchester (and no it doesn't rain all the time ;o) |
vine growers in SE London
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 hazchem wrote:
I read in a book that in SE London on one allotment site there are several people who grow lots of vines to make wine. Can anyone tell me where this is? Grapes for wine are not usually good to eat. Depends on what you mean by good to eat. As regards sweetness they should be perfectly palatable but you won't usually find a wine grape that doesn't have seeds which is what some people find unpleasant. I have several vines on my allotment and I am increasing the number. I would be interested to know how other people solve the problems of vine growing. Vines don't like waterlogged soils in winter (not many plants do) and I solve this problem by growing my vines on ridges. It's not likely that your ridges will have any great effect on a vine as, once established, the roots go deep and wide. You try pulling an established vine (i.e. more than four years old or so) out of the ground. you won't manage it! I have had some criticism from the organisers of my allotment site about my plot, and I am concerned that they may not feel that my plot is up to their standards. All they should concern themselves with is that you keep it tidy and weed-free. What you grow on it is your business. David -- David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Caversham, Reading, UK |
vine growers in SE London
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 Martin wrote:
You need a hardy type of vine than can withstand frost. All vines can withstand frost. What frost does kill is the new green growth, but it won't kill the vine. David -- David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Caversham, Reading, UK |
vine growers in SE London
On 23 Apr, 17:06, Martin wrote:
On 23 Apr 2007 07:10:49 -0700, La Puce wrote: On 23 Apr, 14:29, hazchem wrote: Grapes for wine are not usually good to eat. I have several vines on my allotment and I am increasing the number. I would be interested to know how other people solve the problems of vine growing. Vines don't like waterlogged soils in winter (not many plants do) and I solve this problem by growing my vines on ridges. I would like to know how other people solve the problem, or if they see it as a problem. Books don't seem to have much to say on the subject. When I go to Brighton on the train from East Croydon I look out for 2 allotment sites near the tracks. The second of the 2 has a plot seeming to be completely covered in vines. I have had some criticism from the organisers of my allotment site about my plot, and I am concerned that they may not feel that my plot is up to their standards. If they do criticise again, I would like to be able to tell them that many people have mostly vines on their plot and have done so for years with no problems. New Kent Allotment - there's this chap who's growing grapes since 1982. Check that link. http://www.timeout.com/london/bars/features/2444.html My father in law growns a stranger grape in his greenhouse (Birmingham) - a delicious white dessert grape, sweet and full of flavour, compact small transluscent raisins. Amazing. It's in it's green house, straight from the ground, well protected and deep rooted, a light sandy soil and a very old specimen, but with a fantastic yield. My in laws have beein in this house perhaps 10 years now and found the grape but didn't asked what it was. Interesting you've asked these questions because I want to grow grapes and the lotty is out of the question. The requirements now to plant fruit trees, new sheds, hedge etc. is so laborious, I don't even want to go there. So I thought against my house which is a perfect place, 16m of south facing wall. I will need to start working on the soil very soon for next year - I'm looking at totally changing the soil since I've got tarmac, followed by rubble, then sand etc. It is going to be quite a project but we've started working on the trellis, which will form part of a pergola running all along the side of the house where I want the grapes to grow. I thought 2 grapes would do, ideally a white one and a red one. Now how/what soil would you start with? What type of layers? I live in Manchester (and no it doesn't rain all the time ;o) We have grape vines growing against our house wall. The one that grew best was planted where there was builder's rubble in the ground. The vine reached the eves of our house before a gale blew it over. The vine started life in the monastery at Maria Lach in Germany, was moved to a flower box on a 3rd floor balcony, and then 27 years ago, to our house. it is 34 years old this year. You need a hardy type of vine than can withstand frost. Rubble? Marvelous - I've got lots of that! I'm wondering about a vitis vinefera Golden Champion which does very well outside in the UK or a Muscat for the white and a Black Hamburg (Frankenthaler). Do you know what you have? This summer I'll have a closer look at some vine growing around my home town. I've approached the subject last year with a friend of my uncle and the man laughed so much we ended up talking about something else but took with us a big bunch of vine wood, Serment, to cook meat on the barbecue. Those French, they still think we boil all our meats and eat it with jam .... ;o) |
vine growers in SE London
On 20 Apr 2007 07:42:57 -0700, hazchem wrote:
I read in a book that in SE London on one allotment site there are several people who grow lots of vines to make wine. Can anyone tell me where this is? I inherited vines on my allotment in Bexley, however theres only enough to make half a dozen bottles so I havent bothered. -- Mike Reid A rather dull page with a few photos of where I live "Old Bexley" is at "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/londonwalk9.htm" (see website for email) |
vine growers in SE London
On 23 Apr 2007 06:29:52 -0700, hazchem wrote:
I would like to know how other people solve the problem, my "terroir" is loam over gravel on south facing slope. :-) -- Mike Reid UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk" |
vine growers in SE London
Following up to The Reid :
my "terroir" is loam over gravel on south facing slope. :-) You should make a good "Grüner Veltliner". Especially if it gets nippy at night but warm during the day. -- Tim C. |
vine growers in SE London
On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:15:00 +0200, Tim C.
wrote: my "terroir" is loam over gravel on south facing slope. :-) You should make a good "Grüner Veltliner". Especially if it gets nippy at night but warm during the day. ive got a silly mix of red and white :-( "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk/stable2.htm" -- Mike Reid UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk" |
vine growers in SE London
On 23 Apr, 21:31, La Puce wrote:
On 23 Apr, 17:06, Martin wrote: On 23 Apr 2007 07:10:49 -0700, La Puce wrote: On 23 Apr, 14:29, hazchem wrote: Grapes for wine are not usually good to eat. I have several vines on my allotment and I am increasing the number. I would be interested to know how other people solve the problems of vine growing. Vines don't like waterlogged soils in winter (not many plants do) and I solve this problem by growing my vines on ridges. I would like to know how other people solve the problem, or if they see it as a problem. Books don't seem to have much to say on the subject. When I go to Brighton on the train from East Croydon I look out for 2 allotment sites near the tracks. The second of the 2 has a plot seeming to be completely covered in vines. I have had some criticism from the organisers of my allotment site about my plot, and I am concerned that they may not feel that my plot is up to their standards. If they do criticise again, I would like to be able to tell them that many people have mostly vines on their plot and have done so for years with no problems. New Kent Allotment - there's this chap who's growing grapes since 1982. Check that link. http://www.timeout.com/london/bars/features/2444.html My father in law growns a stranger grape in his greenhouse (Birmingham) - a delicious white dessert grape, sweet and full of flavour, compact small transluscent raisins. Amazing. It's in it's green house, straight from the ground, well protected and deep rooted, a light sandy soil and a very old specimen, but with a fantastic yield. My in laws have beein in this house perhaps 10 years now and found the grape but didn't asked what it was. Interesting you've asked these questions because I want to grow grapes and the lotty is out of the question. The requirements now to plant fruit trees, new sheds, hedge etc. is so laborious, I don't even want to go there. So I thought against my house which is a perfect place, 16m of south facing wall. I will need to start working on the soil very soon for next year - I'm looking at totally changing the soil since I've got tarmac, followed by rubble, then sand etc. It is going to be quite a project but we've started working on the trellis, which will form part of a pergola running all along the side of the house where I want the grapes to grow. I thought 2 grapes would do, ideally a white one and a red one. Now how/what soil would you start with? What type of layers? I live in Manchester (and no it doesn't rain all the time ;o) We have grape vines growing against our house wall. The one that grew best was planted where there was builder's rubble in the ground. The vine reached the eves of our house before a gale blew it over. The vine started life in the monastery at Maria Lach in Germany, was moved to a flower box on a 3rd floor balcony, and then 27 years ago, to our house. it is 34 years old this year. You need a hardy type of vine than can withstand frost. Rubble? Marvelous - I've got lots of that! I'm wondering about a vitis vinefera Golden Champion which does very well outside in the UK or a Muscat for the white and a Black Hamburg (Frankenthaler). Do you know what you have? This summer I'll have a closer look at some vine growing around my home town. I've approached the subject last year with a friend of my uncle and the man laughed so much we ended up talking about something else but took with us a big bunch of vine wood, Serment, to cook meat on the barbecue. Those French, they still think we boil all our meats and eat it with jam .... ;o)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I wouldn't worry about the rubble or the sand. I would suggest that at least one of your vines should be a hybrid vine. These are disease resistant, although they can be more vigorous. Vines tend to get fungal diseases, the worst of which is powdery mildew. It is possible to spray against fungal problems, but spraying is a chore. I have got Muscat Bleu and Fragola (the Strawberry Grape), these are hybrids. The other variety I have is Siegerrebe. This has a really good muscat flavour and is early-ripening. On my allotment I have 2 of these and I have buried vertically a length of pipe near to each. Grape vines don't normally need watering, but before they get established they may benefit from it in a very hot summer. Non-hybrid vines are prone to fungal diseases if there is not enough water at the roots. Watering into the pipe means that deeper roots are encouraged not surface roots. If I do water, it will be a lot of water, but infrequently. Did you say you had to ask for permission to plant vines or trees on your allotment? Hazchem |
vine growers in SE London
On 23 Apr, 16:39, David Rance wrote:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 hazchem wrote: I read in a book that in SE London on one allotment site there are several people who grow lots of vines to make wine. Can anyone tell me where this is? Grapes for wine are not usually good to eat. Depends on what you mean by good to eat. As regards sweetness they should be perfectly palatable but you won't usually find a wine grape that doesn't have seeds which is what some people find unpleasant. Vines grown for wine-making usually have higher levels of acidity and tannins. I have several vines on my allotment and I am increasing the number. I would be interested to know how other people solve the problems of vine growing. Vines don't like waterlogged soils in winter (not many plants do) and I solve this problem by growing my vines on ridges. It's not likely that your ridges will have any great effect on a vine as, once established, the roots go deep and wide. You try pulling an established vine (i.e. more than four years old or so) out of the ground. you won't manage it! My plot is waterlogged in the winter. Puddles form in any hollow. When I first had my allotment I planted 2 vines, 1 on a mound that was there and the other on level ground. The 1 on the mound did well but the other 1 did not have any grapes one year. If roots rot off in winter, then at least the ones in the ridge will survive and regenerate a root system. I have had some criticism from the organisers of my allotment site about my plot, and I am concerned that they may not feel that my plot is up to their standards. All they should concern themselves with is that you keep it tidy and weed-free. What you grow on it is your business. I agree. David -- David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Caversham, Reading, UK |
vine growers in SE London
On 25 Apr, 12:41, hazchem wrote:
I wouldn't worry about the rubble or the sand. I would suggest that at least one of your vines should be a hybrid vine. These are disease resistant, although they can be more vigorous. Vines tend to get fungal diseases, the worst of which is powdery mildew. It is possible to spray against fungal problems, but spraying is a chore. I have got Muscat Bleu and Fragola (the Strawberry Grape), these are hybrids. The other variety I have is Siegerrebe. This has a really good muscat flavour and is early-ripening. On my allotment I have 2 of these and I have buried vertically a length of pipe near to each. Grape vines don't normally need watering, but before they get established they may benefit from it in a very hot summer. Non-hybrid vines are prone to fungal diseases if there is not enough water at the roots. Watering into the pipe means that deeper roots are encouraged not surface roots. If I do water, it will be a lot of water, but infrequently. Thank you very much for all these info - it's so nice to have all you need to know to start in one little text. I've just finished a roof garden project and the vines are going to be my next one. Did you say you had to ask for permission to plant vines or trees on your allotment? Yes, since January. The guestapo, I mean the committee sorry, has changed a bit over the years - there's lots of good initiatives and efforts but sadly the council is getting terribly heavy on us and they demand all sorts regarding the dos and don't of our plots which to be fair puts the committee in a difficult situation. We're not allowed fences, hedges nor gate/door to our plots. All are opened. Greenhouses, sheds, trees, vines, heavy flags, ponds, any structures are forbiden unless applied to the council for permission. You get a plan and you have to mark where you are going to put the above, fill in a form and this goes to a board, several months later. What has happened is that we had to get lots of skips over the years as the tenants move in and out of the plots getting rid of past tenants rubbish. But I think that's life. The committee felt that it was a pain to book skips .... therefore they're on to us with anything which would require an expensive removal opperation if tenants where to move out. Hence no tall or heavy or complicated to remove structure. |
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Good luck with your vines |
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