I read in a book that in SE London on one allotment site there are
several people who grow lots of vines to make wine. Can anyone tell me
where this is?

"hazchem" wrote in message
ups.com...
I read in a book that in SE London on one allotment site there are
several people who grow lots of vines to make wine. Can anyone tell me
where this is?

What?
So you can nick their grapes

;-^

On 21 Apr, 17:47, "R" wrote:
"hazchem" wrote in message

ups.com...

I read in a book that in SE London on one allotment site there are
several people who grow lots of vines to make wine. Can anyone tell me
where this is?

What?
So you can nick their grapes

;-^

Grapes for wine are not usually good to eat. I have several vines on
my allotment and I am increasing the number. I would be interested to
know how other people solve the problems of vine growing. Vines don't
like waterlogged soils in winter (not many plants do) and I solve this
problem by growing my vines on ridges. I would like to know how other
people solve the problem, or if they see it as a problem. Books don't
seem to have much to say on the subject.

When I go to Brighton on the train from East Croydon I look out for 2
allotment sites near the tracks. The second of the 2 has a plot
seeming to be completely covered in vines.

I have had some criticism from the organisers of my allotment site
about my plot, and I am concerned that they may not feel that my plot
is up to their standards. If they do criticise again, I would like to
be able to tell them that many people have mostly vines on their plot
and have done so for years with no problems.

Hazchem

On 23 Apr, 14:29, hazchem wrote:
Grapes for wine are not usually good to eat. I have several vines on
my allotment and I am increasing the number. I would be interested to
know how other people solve the problems of vine growing. Vines don't
like waterlogged soils in winter (not many plants do) and I solve this
problem by growing my vines on ridges. I would like to know how other
people solve the problem, or if they see it as a problem. Books don't
seem to have much to say on the subject.
When I go to Brighton on the train from East Croydon I look out for 2
allotment sites near the tracks. The second of the 2 has a plot
seeming to be completely covered in vines.
I have had some criticism from the organisers of my allotment site
about my plot, and I am concerned that they may not feel that my plot
is up to their standards. If they do criticise again, I would like to
be able to tell them that many people have mostly vines on their plot
and have done so for years with no problems.

New Kent Allotment - there's this chap who's growing grapes since
1982. Check that link.

http://www.timeout.com/london/bars/features/2444.html

My father in law growns a stranger grape in his greenhouse
(Birmingham) - a delicious white dessert grape, sweet and full of
flavour, compact small transluscent raisins. Amazing. It's in it's
green house, straight from the ground, well protected and deep rooted,
a light sandy soil and a very old specimen, but with a fantastic
yield. My in laws have beein in this house perhaps 10 years now and
found the grape but didn't asked what it was.

Interesting you've asked these questions because I want to grow grapes
and the lotty is out of the question. The requirements now to plant
fruit trees, new sheds, hedge etc. is so laborious, I don't even want
to go there. So I thought against my house which is a perfect place,
16m of south facing wall. I will need to start working on the soil
very soon for next year - I'm looking at totally changing the soil
since I've got tarmac, followed by rubble, then sand etc. It is going
to be quite a project but we've started working on the trellis, which
will form part of a pergola running all along the side of the house
where I want the grapes to grow. I thought 2 grapes would do, ideally
a white one and a red one.

Now how/what soil would you start with? What type of layers? I live in
Manchester (and no it doesn't rain all the time ;o)

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 hazchem wrote:

I read in a book that in SE London on one allotment site there are
several people who grow lots of vines to make wine. Can anyone tell me
where this is?

Grapes for wine are not usually good to eat.

Depends on what you mean by good to eat. As regards sweetness they
should be perfectly palatable but you won't usually find a wine grape
that doesn't have seeds which is what some people find unpleasant.

I have several vines on
my allotment and I am increasing the number. I would be interested to
know how other people solve the problems of vine growing. Vines don't
like waterlogged soils in winter (not many plants do) and I solve this
problem by growing my vines on ridges.

It's not likely that your ridges will have any great effect on a vine
as, once established, the roots go deep and wide. You try pulling an
established vine (i.e. more than four years old or so) out of the
ground. you won't manage it!

I have had some criticism from the organisers of my allotment site
about my plot, and I am concerned that they may not feel that my plot
is up to their standards.

All they should concern themselves with is that you keep it tidy and
weed-free. What you grow on it is your business.

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 Martin wrote:

You need a hardy type of vine than can withstand frost.

All vines can withstand frost. What frost does kill is the new green
growth, but it won't kill the vine.

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

On 23 Apr, 17:06, Martin wrote:
On 23 Apr 2007 07:10:49 -0700, La Puce wrote:





On 23 Apr, 14:29, hazchem wrote:
Grapes for wine are not usually good to eat. I have several vines on
my allotment and I am increasing the number. I would be interested to
know how other people solve the problems of vine growing. Vines don't
like waterlogged soils in winter (not many plants do) and I solve this
problem by growing my vines on ridges. I would like to know how other
people solve the problem, or if they see it as a problem. Books don't
seem to have much to say on the subject.
When I go to Brighton on the train from East Croydon I look out for 2
allotment sites near the tracks. The second of the 2 has a plot
seeming to be completely covered in vines.
I have had some criticism from the organisers of my allotment site
about my plot, and I am concerned that they may not feel that my plot
is up to their standards. If they do criticise again, I would like to
be able to tell them that many people have mostly vines on their plot
and have done so for years with no problems.

New Kent Allotment - there's this chap who's growing grapes since
1982. Check that link.

http://www.timeout.com/london/bars/features/2444.html

My father in law growns a stranger grape in his greenhouse
(Birmingham) - a delicious white dessert grape, sweet and full of
flavour, compact small transluscent raisins. Amazing. It's in it's
green house, straight from the ground, well protected and deep rooted,
a light sandy soil and a very old specimen, but with a fantastic
yield. My in laws have beein in this house perhaps 10 years now and
found the grape but didn't asked what it was.

Interesting you've asked these questions because I want to grow grapes
and the lotty is out of the question. The requirements now to plant
fruit trees, new sheds, hedge etc. is so laborious, I don't even want
to go there. So I thought against my house which is a perfect place,
16m of south facing wall. I will need to start working on the soil
very soon for next year - I'm looking at totally changing the soil
since I've got tarmac, followed by rubble, then sand etc. It is going
to be quite a project but we've started working on the trellis, which
will form part of a pergola running all along the side of the house
where I want the grapes to grow. I thought 2 grapes would do, ideally
a white one and a red one.

Now how/what soil would you start with? What type of layers? I live in
Manchester (and no it doesn't rain all the time ;o)

We have grape vines growing against our house wall. The one that grew best was
planted where there was builder's rubble in the ground. The vine reached the
eves of our house before a gale blew it over. The vine started life in the
monastery at Maria Lach in Germany, was moved to a flower box on a 3rd floor
balcony, and then 27 years ago, to our house. it is 34 years old this year.
You need a hardy type of vine than can withstand frost.

Rubble? Marvelous - I've got lots of that! I'm wondering about a vitis
vinefera Golden Champion which does very well outside in the UK or a
Muscat for the white and a Black Hamburg (Frankenthaler). Do you know
what you have? This summer I'll have a closer look at some vine
growing around my home town. I've approached the subject last year
with a friend of my uncle and the man laughed so much we ended up
talking about something else but took with us a big bunch of vine
wood, Serment, to cook meat on the barbecue. Those French, they still
think we boil all our meats and eat it with jam .... ;o)

On 20 Apr 2007 07:42:57 -0700, hazchem wrote:

I read in a book that in SE London on one allotment site there are
several people who grow lots of vines to make wine. Can anyone tell me
where this is?

I inherited vines on my allotment in Bexley, however theres only
enough to make half a dozen bottles so I havent bothered.
--
Mike Reid
A rather dull page with a few photos of where I live
"Old Bexley" is at "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk/londonwalk9.htm"
(see website for email)

On 23 Apr 2007 06:29:52 -0700, hazchem wrote:

I would like to know how other
people solve the problem,

my "terroir" is loam over gravel on south facing slope. :-)
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

Following up to The Reid :

my "terroir" is loam over gravel on south facing slope. :-)

You should make a good "Grüner Veltliner". Especially if it gets nippy at
night but warm during the day.
--
Tim C.

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:15:00 +0200, Tim C.
wrote:

my "terroir" is loam over gravel on south facing slope. :-)

You should make a good "Grüner Veltliner". Especially if it gets nippy at
night but warm during the day.

ive got a silly mix of red and white :-(

"http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk/stable2.htm"
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

On 23 Apr, 21:31, La Puce wrote:
On 23 Apr, 17:06, Martin wrote:





On 23 Apr 2007 07:10:49 -0700, La Puce wrote:

On 23 Apr, 14:29, hazchem wrote:
Grapes for wine are not usually good to eat. I have several vines on
my allotment and I am increasing the number. I would be interested to
know how other people solve the problems of vine growing. Vines don't
like waterlogged soils in winter (not many plants do) and I solve this
problem by growing my vines on ridges. I would like to know how other
people solve the problem, or if they see it as a problem. Books don't
seem to have much to say on the subject.
When I go to Brighton on the train from East Croydon I look out for 2
allotment sites near the tracks. The second of the 2 has a plot
seeming to be completely covered in vines.
I have had some criticism from the organisers of my allotment site
about my plot, and I am concerned that they may not feel that my plot
is up to their standards. If they do criticise again, I would like to
be able to tell them that many people have mostly vines on their plot
and have done so for years with no problems.

New Kent Allotment - there's this chap who's growing grapes since
1982. Check that link.

http://www.timeout.com/london/bars/features/2444.html

My father in law growns a stranger grape in his greenhouse
(Birmingham) - a delicious white dessert grape, sweet and full of
flavour, compact small transluscent raisins. Amazing. It's in it's
green house, straight from the ground, well protected and deep rooted,
a light sandy soil and a very old specimen, but with a fantastic
yield. My in laws have beein in this house perhaps 10 years now and
found the grape but didn't asked what it was.

Interesting you've asked these questions because I want to grow grapes
and the lotty is out of the question. The requirements now to plant
fruit trees, new sheds, hedge etc. is so laborious, I don't even want
to go there. So I thought against my house which is a perfect place,
16m of south facing wall. I will need to start working on the soil
very soon for next year - I'm looking at totally changing the soil
since I've got tarmac, followed by rubble, then sand etc. It is going
to be quite a project but we've started working on the trellis, which
will form part of a pergola running all along the side of the house
where I want the grapes to grow. I thought 2 grapes would do, ideally
a white one and a red one.

Now how/what soil would you start with? What type of layers? I live in
Manchester (and no it doesn't rain all the time ;o)

We have grape vines growing against our house wall. The one that grew best was
planted where there was builder's rubble in the ground. The vine reached the
eves of our house before a gale blew it over. The vine started life in the
monastery at Maria Lach in Germany, was moved to a flower box on a 3rd floor
balcony, and then 27 years ago, to our house. it is 34 years old this year.
You need a hardy type of vine than can withstand frost.

Rubble? Marvelous - I've got lots of that! I'm wondering about a vitis
vinefera Golden Champion which does very well outside in the UK or a
Muscat for the white and a Black Hamburg (Frankenthaler). Do you know
what you have? This summer I'll have a closer look at some vine
growing around my home town. I've approached the subject last year
with a friend of my uncle and the man laughed so much we ended up
talking about something else but took with us a big bunch of vine
wood, Serment, to cook meat on the barbecue. Those French, they still
think we boil all our meats and eat it with jam .... ;o)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I wouldn't worry about the rubble or the sand. I would suggest that at
least one of your vines should be a hybrid vine. These are disease
resistant, although they can be more vigorous. Vines tend to get
fungal diseases, the worst of which is powdery mildew. It is possible
to spray against fungal problems, but spraying is a chore. I have got
Muscat Bleu and Fragola (the Strawberry Grape), these are hybrids.

The other variety I have is Siegerrebe. This has a really good muscat
flavour and is early-ripening. On my allotment I have 2 of these and I
have buried vertically a length of pipe near to each. Grape vines
don't normally need watering, but before they get established they may
benefit from it in a very hot summer. Non-hybrid vines are prone to
fungal diseases if there is not enough water at the roots. Watering
into the pipe means that deeper roots are encouraged not surface
roots. If I do water, it will be a lot of water, but infrequently.

Did you say you had to ask for permission to plant vines or trees on
your allotment?

Hazchem

On 23 Apr, 16:39, David Rance wrote:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 hazchem wrote:



I read in a book that in SE London on one allotment site there are
several people who grow lots of vines to make wine. Can anyone tell me
where this is?

Grapes for wine are not usually good to eat.

Depends on what you mean by good to eat. As regards sweetness they
should be perfectly palatable but you won't usually find a wine grape
that doesn't have seeds which is what some people find unpleasant.

Vines grown for wine-making usually have higher levels of acidity and
tannins.

I have several vines on
my allotment and I am increasing the number. I would be interested to
know how other people solve the problems of vine growing. Vines don't
like waterlogged soils in winter (not many plants do) and I solve this
problem by growing my vines on ridges.

It's not likely that your ridges will have any great effect on a vine
as, once established, the roots go deep and wide. You try pulling an
established vine (i.e. more than four years old or so) out of the
ground. you won't manage it!

My plot is waterlogged in the winter. Puddles form in any hollow. When
I first had my allotment I planted 2 vines, 1 on a mound that was
there and the other on level ground. The 1 on the mound did well but
the other 1 did not have any grapes one year. If roots rot off in
winter, then at least the ones in the ridge will survive and
regenerate a root system.

I have had some criticism from the organisers of my allotment site
about my plot, and I am concerned that they may not feel that my plot
is up to their standards.

All they should concern themselves with is that you keep it tidy and
weed-free. What you grow on it is your business.

I agree.

David

--
David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk
Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

On 25 Apr, 12:41, hazchem wrote:
I wouldn't worry about the rubble or the sand. I would suggest that at
least one of your vines should be a hybrid vine. These are disease
resistant, although they can be more vigorous. Vines tend to get
fungal diseases, the worst of which is powdery mildew. It is possible
to spray against fungal problems, but spraying is a chore. I have got
Muscat Bleu and Fragola (the Strawberry Grape), these are hybrids.
The other variety I have is Siegerrebe. This has a really good muscat
flavour and is early-ripening. On my allotment I have 2 of these and I
have buried vertically a length of pipe near to each. Grape vines
don't normally need watering, but before they get established they may
benefit from it in a very hot summer. Non-hybrid vines are prone to
fungal diseases if there is not enough water at the roots. Watering
into the pipe means that deeper roots are encouraged not surface
roots. If I do water, it will be a lot of water, but infrequently.

Thank you very much for all these info - it's so nice to have all you
need to know to start in one little text. I've just finished a roof
garden project and the vines are going to be my next one.

Did you say you had to ask for permission to plant vines or trees on
your allotment?

Yes, since January. The guestapo, I mean the committee sorry, has
changed a bit over the years - there's lots of good initiatives and
efforts but sadly the council is getting terribly heavy on us and they
demand all sorts regarding the dos and don't of our plots which to be
fair puts the committee in a difficult situation. We're not allowed
fences, hedges nor gate/door to our plots. All are opened.
Greenhouses, sheds, trees, vines, heavy flags, ponds, any structures
are forbiden unless applied to the council for permission. You get a
plan and you have to mark where you are going to put the above, fill
in a form and this goes to a board, several months later.

What has happened is that we had to get lots of skips over the years
as the tenants move in and out of the plots getting rid of past
tenants rubbish. But I think that's life. The committee felt that it
was a pain to book skips .... therefore they're on to us with anything
which would require an expensive removal opperation if tenants where
to move out. Hence no tall or heavy or complicated to remove
structure.

I have over 50 vines growing on my own allotment just north of London, it's a long term project but they are all growing well and starting to produce grapes after 3 years on the plot. The most pricey part of the whole thing has been the posts and wire system to support the vines, so I suggest finding a source of 7 foot posts if you are proceeding with your project. The vines I have are Seyval Blanc, Pinot Gris, Bacchus and Reichensteiner.

Good luck with your vines