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Good Time to plant an Acer?
Hi all,
Would right now be a good time to buy and plant an Acer Palmatum? Something like a 'Sango-kaku'? If yes, i'll get off the garden centre to get one as i really like them. Also, any tips about planting them? ie anything special i should do in the hole? Many thanks Mick Sheffield |
Good Time to plant an Acer?
On Mon, 1 Oct 2007 08:34:03 +0100
Zarch wrote: Hi all, Would right now be a good time to buy and plant an Acer Palmatum? Something like a 'Sango-kaku'? Buy, yes. Plant, no. Wait until the tree is dormant. If you have any questions about winter drainage at all, wait until spring. If the roots stay wet over winter, there is every chance it will die. If yes, i'll get off the garden centre to get one as i really like them. Get the largest plant you can afford (within reason), the older the graft the more chance it will have to take. Also consider getting Eddisbury or Beni kawa. They both have the red bark of Sango kaku but are much less tricky to grow. Both have less problems with wet, Eddisbury takes sun better and Beni kawa leafs out a couple of weeks later, which is convenient if you're in a frost pocket. All three can be grown in full sun, but will take a few years to establish. Also, any tips about planting them? ie anything special i should do in the hole? You know it won't grow in chalk. Otherwise not too picky about soil, although prefers slightly acidic. Don't use much soil amendment in heavy soil, it causes drainage problems. If you're in heavy clay, the best bet is to build up on top of the soil, if you want to keep the tree small (bear in mind Sango kaku is a 12 foot tree). Otherwise you can certainly grow A. palmatum in clay, but very tough to establish. Don't fertilize beyond a little bone meal, you can do a little osmocote the second year. Good luck. Even experienced maple growers kill scads of these (and Sango kaku is pretty tricky) so "If at first you don't succeed..." ;) -E -- Emery Davis You can reply to ecom by removing the well known companies Questions about wine? Visit http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com |
Quote:
Emery, I've been round 3 garden centres this morning and have been slightly disappointed with the selection of Acers available. Maybe its just the time of year? Three types took my eye though. Firstly, Orange Dream, it is possible to get quite an established plant for around 30 pounds. THe do seem very much similar to sango kaku that i had previously, with the small petite looking leaves. Secondly, the Shin Deshojo, which was very striking red, but only smaller plants were available for 18 pounds. And finally i saw a Osakazuki. And for 28 pounds i can get the following plant. (see pic). It looks very well established and have a very nice wide spread to it (whereas the orange dreams seem very tall and compact). Is there any good and bad points you can tell me about the Orange Dream or Osakazuki? On the info label for the Osakazuki it says it doesn't appreciate pruning, is it just a case of letting it develop how it pleases? if there is nothing to be to concerned about, i think might go back and get the plant in the picture, because it did look particularly grand! http:\\zarch.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk\acer.jpg Many thanks again Mick |
Good Time to plant an Acer?
In message , Emery Davis
writes You know it won't grow in chalk. Otherwise not too picky about soil, although prefers slightly acidic. Don't use much soil amendment in heavy soil, it causes drainage problems. If you're in heavy clay, the best bet is to build up on top of the soil, if you want to keep the tree small (bear in mind Sango kaku is a 12 foot tree). Otherwise you can certainly grow A. palmatum in clay, but very tough to establish. Don't fertilize beyond a little bone meal, you can do a little osmocote the second year. Good luck. Even experienced maple growers kill scads of these (and Sango kaku is pretty tricky) so "If at first you don't succeed..." ;) -E We were given one for our coral anniversary a couple of years ago, and in our ignorance have been really successful with it - so far. But I have just gone out to have a closer look, and most of the bark has been stripped from it at a level that makes me suspect our cat! Any ideas how I can bandage it to help it to heal and at the same time keep the cat from further damaging it? -- Klara, Gatwick basin |
Good Time to plant an Acer?
In article , Klara
wrote: In message , Emery Davis writes You know it won't grow in chalk. Otherwise not too picky about soil, although prefers slightly acidic. Don't use much soil amendment in heavy soil, it causes drainage problems. If you're in heavy clay, the best bet is to build up on top of the soil, if you want to keep the tree small (bear in mind Sango kaku is a 12 foot tree). Otherwise you can certainly grow A. palmatum in clay, but very tough to establish. Don't fertilize beyond a little bone meal, you can do a little osmocote the second year. Good luck. Even experienced maple growers kill scads of these (and Sango kaku is pretty tricky) so "If at first you don't succeed..." ;) We were given one for our coral anniversary a couple of years ago, and in our ignorance have been really successful with it - so far. But I have just gone out to have a closer look, and most of the bark has been stripped from it at a level that makes me suspect our cat! Any ideas how I can bandage it to help it to heal and at the same time keep the cat from further damaging it? Rabbits love sweet young bark and have been the certain cause of young saplings of mine being stripped back to bare wood from approx 18in high down to ground level. A low coil of chicken wire should provide protection. |
Good Time to plant an Acer?
In message , Stan The Man
writes We were given one for our coral anniversary a couple of years ago, and in our ignorance have been really successful with it - so far. But I have just gone out to have a closer look, and most of the bark has been stripped from it at a level that makes me suspect our cat! Any ideas how I can bandage it to help it to heal and at the same time keep the cat from further damaging it? Rabbits love sweet young bark and have been the certain cause of young saplings of mine being stripped back to bare wood from approx 18in high down to ground level. A low coil of chicken wire should provide protection. It was at around 18 inches, so I discounted rabbits ... also, we have lots of foxes and haven't seen rabbits in a long time. But there are deer and badgers.... In any case, the chicken wire idea should work on whatever it is - thanks! Should I paint the trunk with something in the hope that it will protect the tree from infection, given that quite a bit of bark is missing? Thanks! -- Klara, Gatwick basin |
Good Time to plant an Acer?
In article , Klara
wrote: In message , Stan The Man writes We were given one for our coral anniversary a couple of years ago, and in our ignorance have been really successful with it - so far. But I have just gone out to have a closer look, and most of the bark has been stripped from it at a level that makes me suspect our cat! Any ideas how I can bandage it to help it to heal and at the same time keep the cat from further damaging it? Rabbits love sweet young bark and have been the certain cause of young saplings of mine being stripped back to bare wood from approx 18in high down to ground level. A low coil of chicken wire should provide protection. It was at around 18 inches, so I discounted rabbits ... also, we have lots of foxes and haven't seen rabbits in a long time. But there are deer and badgers.... In any case, the chicken wire idea should work on whatever it is - thanks! Should I paint the trunk with something in the hope that it will protect the tree from infection, given that quite a bit of bark is missing? If the full circumference is stripped I fear you will lose the tree as the sap won't be able to travel up to the leaves. In any event it is likely that there will be no new growth above the stripped bark albeit you may get some new growth at ground level. Cork trees seem to cope well when their bark is stripped/harvested but they are an exception. |
Good Time to plant an Acer?
If the full circumference is stripped I fear you will lose the tree as the sap won't be able to travel up to the leaves. In any event it is likely that there will be no new growth above the stripped bark albeit you may get some new growth at ground level. Cork trees seem to cope well when their bark is stripped/harvested but they are an exception. I've always wondered about that. Is the explanation that it's not actually the bark itself that carries the sap up the tree but the very thin layer just inside it (phloem????), and which is destroyed in most trees when you remove the bark. But on a cork oak the bark is so thick you can remove the bark without removing that layer? Or is the layer also thicker on a cork oak? -- Kay |
Good Time to plant an Acer?
In article ,
wrote: If the full circumference is stripped I fear you will lose the tree as the sap won't be able to travel up to the leaves. In any event it is likely that there will be no new growth above the stripped bark albeit you may get some new growth at ground level. Cork trees seem to cope well when their bark is stripped/harvested but they are an exception. I've always wondered about that. Is the explanation that it's not actually the bark itself that carries the sap up the tree but the very thin layer just inside it (phloem????), and which is destroyed in most trees when you remove the bark. But on a cork oak the bark is so thick you can remove the bark without removing that layer? Or is the layer also thicker on a cork oak? I believe that cork is harvested from the outer layer of the bark but the more likely reason for the tree's survival and bark regeneration is that the bark is stripped in a spiral and so the stripping never completes the fatal circle. |
Good Time to plant an Acer?
In message , Stan The Man
writes Should I paint the trunk with something in the hope that it will protect the tree from infection, given that quite a bit of bark is missing? If the full circumference is stripped I fear you will lose the tree as the sap won't be able to travel up to the leaves. In any event it is likely that there will be no new growth above the stripped bark albeit you may get some new growth at ground level. Cork trees seem to cope well when their bark is stripped/harvested but they are an exception. It is stripped the way something with claws would do it, and actually mostly on one side, so there is a bit that is still intact. Is there some sort of first aid I can apply, to try to salvage it? (It's a lovely little tree, and, of course, an anniversary gift from our three daughters....) There is a lot of new growth from below that point, but that would turn more into something like a bush.... -- Klara, Gatwick basin |
Good Time to plant an Acer?
On 11/10/07 08:40, in article ,
"Klara" wrote: In message , Stan The Man writes Should I paint the trunk with something in the hope that it will protect the tree from infection, given that quite a bit of bark is missing? If the full circumference is stripped I fear you will lose the tree as the sap won't be able to travel up to the leaves. In any event it is likely that there will be no new growth above the stripped bark albeit you may get some new growth at ground level. Cork trees seem to cope well when their bark is stripped/harvested but they are an exception. It is stripped the way something with claws would do it, and actually mostly on one side, so there is a bit that is still intact. Is there some sort of first aid I can apply, to try to salvage it? (It's a lovely little tree, and, of course, an anniversary gift from our three daughters....) There is a lot of new growth from below that point, but that would turn more into something like a bush.... I'd still keep the new growth and I'd invest in one of those spiral plastic tree guards, too. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon (remove weeds from address) 'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.' |
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To the original poster: The smaller the tree is when you plant it, the better it will establish and grow on. Most potted trees in garden centres are pot-bound - their roots are going round in circles in too small a container. You can tease out the roots to a degree but it's never quite the same. If the tree is bare-rooted, it has lost a good proportion of its roots when removed from the soil. The smaller the tree, the less proportion it has lost. Commercial forestry nurseries, for example, undercut their seedlings in situ to encourage new growth of feeding roots at the expense of support roots. This means the seedling will feed itself well when planted out but it has to be small enough not to be blown over. It is rare to get a really good tree at the normal garden centre. It's usually best to hunt out a specialist in the trees you are after. Hope this helps. |
Good Time to plant an Acer?
In article , Klara
wrote: In message , Stan The Man writes Should I paint the trunk with something in the hope that it will protect the tree from infection, given that quite a bit of bark is missing? If the full circumference is stripped I fear you will lose the tree as the sap won't be able to travel up to the leaves. In any event it is likely that there will be no new growth above the stripped bark albeit you may get some new growth at ground level. Cork trees seem to cope well when their bark is stripped/harvested but they are an exception. It is stripped the way something with claws would do it, and actually mostly on one side, so there is a bit that is still intact. Is there some sort of first aid I can apply, to try to salvage it? (It's a lovely little tree, and, of course, an anniversary gift from our three daughters....) There is a lot of new growth from below that point, but that would turn more into something like a bush.... You could try something like Prune & Seal - see http://www.growingsuccess.org.uk/det...eal&cat=Garden _Care - but I wouldn't be optimistic. Squirrels like to strip bark too. |
Good Time to plant an Acer?
Stan The Man writes
In article , wrote: If the full circumference is stripped I fear you will lose the tree as the sap won't be able to travel up to the leaves. In any event it is likely that there will be no new growth above the stripped bark albeit you may get some new growth at ground level. Cork trees seem to cope well when their bark is stripped/harvested but they are an exception. I've always wondered about that. Is the explanation that it's not actually the bark itself that carries the sap up the tree but the very thin layer just inside it (phloem????), and which is destroyed in most trees when you remove the bark. But on a cork oak the bark is so thick you can remove the bark without removing that layer? Or is the layer also thicker on a cork oak? I believe that cork is harvested from the outer layer of the bark but the more likely reason for the tree's survival and bark regeneration is that the bark is stripped in a spiral and so the stripping never completes the fatal circle. That method of cutting doesn't tie up with what I've observed in Portugal, which is that the circumference is completely stripped and the removed pieces of bark form a cylinder with vertical cut, with no indication that the cut edges don't match up perfectly. Googling suggests you're right in that it's only the outer layer, eg: (from http://www.killerplants.com/weird-plants/20040101.asp) "Cork oaks produce a unique bark. Phloem and xylem derive from the cambium, a thin cylinder of actively dividing cells in the trunk and branches. Phloem tissue is created to the outside of the cambium; xylem to the inside. As the tree grows in diameter, xylem becomes wood; phloem becomes bark. In the cork oak, the cambium is called the "mother of cork". Unlike most trees that shed the outermost layers of bark, the cork oak retains its bark. The bark is insulating--it protects the living cambium from heat. The bark is lightweight, crossed by lenticels or pores that allow the exchange of gases between the living cells and the atmosphere. The bark is fire-resistant; the outer layers will char, but not burn, during a wildfire." .... in other words, it's as if a birch tree, say, didn't shed all those lovely sheets of paper and instead stacked them up until we harvested them in one go several years later. -- Kay |
Good Time to plant an Acer?
Klara wrote:
It is stripped the way something with claws would do it, and actually mostly on one side, so there is a bit that is still intact. Is there some sort of first aid I can apply, to try to salvage it? (It's a lovely little tree, and, of course, an anniversary gift from our three daughters....) I would simply go with the chicken wire advice. Even when limbs are removed, current thinking is not to paint anything on. I has a similar experience, a few years ago, and the tree has grown to have a healthy 6 inch trunk, and right now a mass of golden leaves. Chris -- Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh. |
Well i've been a purchased the Osakazuki i showed you in the picture, it was too nice a plant to turn down.
I am a little confused though. Emery above says not to plant the tree now. Whereas i asked the guy at the garden centre out of curiosity and he said to get it in the ground now. Dig a whole twice as big, both width and depth as the current pot its in and mix in some ericaceous compost with the existing soil. Soak the plant for 10 mins before planting and then water again once in. Confused? I am! Any clarification as what to do next would be very much appreciated. Cheers. |
Good Time to plant an Acer?
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:57:42 +0100
Zarch wrote: Well i've been a purchased the Osakazuki i showed you in the picture, it was too nice a plant to turn down. I am a little confused though. Emery above says not to plant the tree now. Whereas i asked the guy at the garden centre out of curiosity and he said to get it in the ground now. Dig a whole twice as big, both width and depth as the current pot its in and mix in some ericaceous compost with the existing soil. Soak the plant for 10 mins before planting and then water again once in. Confused? I am! Any clarification as what to do next would be very much appreciated. Been out of town, just catching up. The only reason to plant the Osakazuki (nice tree, much less tricky than Sango kaku BTW) now is if it's a 2 year or less graft and still in original medium. In which case it needs to get into the ground asap. But this is unlikely, so otherwise you should wait until the plant is dormant. Replying to a couple of other points brought up in the thread. Klara, if the stripped bark rings the tree so that the cambium is broken, everything above that point will die. You might as well cut it back now, and start pruning for basic shape next year. This is better than starting again because your maple is already somewhat established, which is the hard part. If 90 degrees or more of cambium remains at any place my experience is that the tree might recover. Use a sharp pruning knife to clean up the wounds, and then _do not_ at all costs treat or fertilize. Do your best to keep the area dry. The only reason to start over will be if the damage is below the original graft, in which case you have just the root stock. (Which will be nice but will also grow into a large tree!) Whoever said that you should use the smallest plant possible doesn't have much experience growing maples, I fear. While this is true for many plants, it is very difficult to establish young grafts of A. palmatum directly in the garden. This is common knowledge in the maple world. -E -- Emery Davis You can reply to ecom by removing the well known companies Questions about wine? Visit http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com |
Good Time to plant an Acer?
Emery Davis writes
Klara, if the stripped bark rings the tree so that the cambium is broken, everything above that point will die. You might as well cut it back now, and start pruning for basic shape next year. This is better than starting again because your maple is already somewhat established, which is the hard part. If 90 degrees or more of cambium remains at any place my experience is that the tree might recover. Use a sharp pruning knife to clean up the wounds, and then _do not_ at all costs treat or fertilize. Do your best to keep the area dry. The only reason to start over will be if the damage is below the original graft, in which case you have just the root stock. (Which will be nice but will also grow into a large tree!) Thanks, Emery. I tried to find 90 degrees' worth of bark, but I doubt there is that much there - and I'm pretty sure the crown is dying. I can't work out what caused the bark to split ... I thought it might be an animal, but if there is some illness that might have that effect, then that looks more likely. Could all the rain this summer have affected it? That leaves us with 65cm of trunk (from what was about 1m, and then lots of shoots below that level going right down to the ground - as if the tree is trying to make up for the crown dying. I don't know where the graft is - the shoots below that point all look the same at this stage as those in the crown, and I don't know enough to know where I should be looking. What rootstock would the sango kaku have been grafted on? We would really like to keep what is left, for its sentimental value if not anything else. There is just a little damage to the bark below 65cm presumably we leave that alone? Is it essential to cut the trunk now? (It's just really painful to do that, and what if I'm wrong and it would recover?) If we do cut it, presumably at an angle away from the top healthy shoot, do we paint anything on the cut? Do we cut it now or when it's dormant? Being a maple, will it react like a Vermont maple and lose its sap? Finally, what shape can we aim for, being left now with a 65-cm trunk and shoots going all the way down? (So sad, for three years we had such a healthy, lovely little tree....) Sorry about all the questions, but we know very little about trees and nothing at all about Japanese maples.... -- Klara, Gatwick basin |
Good Time to plant an Acer?
Hi Klara,
On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 16:47:38 +0100 Klara wrote: Emery Davis writes Klara, if the stripped bark rings the tree so that the cambium is broken, everything above that point will die. You might as well cut it back now, and start pruning for basic shape next year. This is better than starting again because your maple is already somewhat established, which is the hard part. If 90 degrees or more of cambium remains at any place my experience is that the tree might recover. Use a sharp pruning knife to clean up the wounds, and then _do not_ at all costs treat or fertilize. Do your best to keep the area dry. The only reason to start over will be if the damage is below the original graft, in which case you have just the root stock. (Which will be nice but will also grow into a large tree!) Thanks, Emery. I tried to find 90 degrees' worth of bark, but I doubt there is that much there - and I'm pretty sure the crown is dying. I can't work out what caused the bark to split ... I thought it might be an animal, but if there is some illness that might have that effect, then that looks more likely. Could all the rain this summer have affected it? Is there any blackening around the area? I've had sections of cambium die (on a SK too, I've got 4!) from pseudomonas, a local fungal infection. At least I think so, it's really hard to tell without a lab analysis. Anyway this summers wet weather arranged nothing, all my maples hated it. That leaves us with 65cm of trunk (from what was about 1m, and then lots of shoots below that level going right down to the ground - as if the tree is trying to make up for the crown dying. I don't know where the graft is - the shoots below that point all look the same at this stage as those in the crown, and I don't know enough to know where I should be looking. What rootstock would the sango kaku have been grafted on? The rootstock will be green or gray depending on age and circumference. It is just seed grown Acer palmatum, and might have any characteristics beyond being vigorous. The species is extremely polymorphic. But it's almost certainly only a few centimeters above ground on an SK. If the majority of the stem is reddish, it is above the graft. We would really like to keep what is left, for its sentimental value if not anything else. There is just a little damage to the bark below 65cm presumably we leave that alone? Yes, that's right. Just left it heal naturally. Keeping dry is the most important thing, and that the roots are well drained of course. Is it essential to cut the trunk now? (It's just really painful to do that, and what if I'm wrong and it would recover?) If we do cut it, presumably at an angle away from the top healthy shoot, do we paint anything on the cut? Do we cut it now or when it's dormant? Being a maple, will it react like a Vermont maple and lose its sap? Cut 2 inches above a healthy bud pair, it will die back to the buds. Don't paint. The angle of the cut isn't important. You are right to worry about bleeding, but since there is already reduced sap flow to the top of the tree it will not be too much. But japanese maples can bleed profusely if you get them at the wrong time. I guess on balance (and without seeing it) I'd wait for dormancy to prune, so long as there is no blackening above the injury. If you notice any dark streaks above the damage, prune immediately and don't forget to sterilize your secateurs afterwards. Finally, what shape can we aim for, being left now with a 65-cm trunk and shoots going all the way down? (So sad, for three years we had such a healthy, lovely little tree....) It will probably put out long shoots, 2 feet or more, next spring. You can certainly use one of these as a new central leader, or go for a vase shaped look. The following thread contains lots of discussion about pruning of these trees, from the UBC maple forum: http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/fo...ad.php?t=22077 Personally I agree with Mr. Harris, that in our climate anyway autumn is fine, spring is OK but it must be very early otherwise you seriously risk weakening the plant. I try to be pretty minimalist with the interventions. Another of my SKs was badly infected with verticillium wilt this year -- thanks to the never ending wet -- and I had to lop from about 5 feet to 3. It grew out very bushy, looks odd but not unattractive! I may do a little shaping this winter. Sorry about all the questions, but we know very little about trees and nothing at all about Japanese maples.... As you may note from the link there is a lot of conflicting advice, there are only a few maple experts and even they don't all agree. About anything! ;) -E -- Emery Davis You can reply to ecom by removing the well known companies Questions about wine? Visit http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com |
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All, Thought i'd resurrect this thread as i think it might be the right time to get the Acer in the ground now. (well this coming weekend) To re-cap its an Osakazuki that i bought back in November of last year. I have a spot in the garden ready for it, i would just like some final clarification about the best way to prepare the hole and how to plant etc. Is the following advice from the garden centre along the right lines? "Dig a whole twice as big, both width and depth as the current pot its in and mix in some ericaceous compost with the existing soil. Soak the plant for 10 mins before planting and then water again once in." Do i need to plant it deep in the hole and really hide the rootball? Or does it need to be towards ground level? Do i need any feed or anything in the hole as well as a bit of ericaceous compost? Any help would be very very much appreciated............ Cheers, Mick |
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