Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

I was given this tonight by someone who lives in Westbury on Trym. She has
seen these fruits growing on a bush (not a tree) in a garden and picked two
up off the road. They smell very faintly citrusy to me and each seed
chamber has two seeds in each side. She's not a gardener so can only tell
me that the leaves are leaf shaped, not huge, not leathery and that the
fruits are autumnal.
http://i16.tinypic.com/7x8rupj.jpg

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

On 28/11/07 22:42, in article
, "Sacha"
wrote:

I was given this tonight by someone who lives in Westbury on Trym. She has
seen these fruits growing on a bush (not a tree) in a garden and picked two
up off the road. They smell very faintly citrusy to me and each seed
chamber has two seeds in each side. She's not a gardener so can only tell
me that the leaves are leaf shaped, not huge, not leathery and that the
fruits are autumnal.
http://i16.tinypic.com/7x8rupj.jpg

Whoops, sorry - forgot to say that's a not very huge almond at the back,
just there to give scale.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In article ,
Sacha writes:
| I was given this tonight by someone who lives in Westbury on Trym. She has
| seen these fruits growing on a bush (not a tree) in a garden and picked two
| up off the road. They smell very faintly citrusy to me and each seed
| chamber has two seeds in each side. She's not a gardener so can only tell
| me that the leaves are leaf shaped, not huge, not leathery and that the
| fruits are autumnal.
| http://i16.tinypic.com/7x8rupj.jpg

They are very like a Chaenomeles, but with larger and fewer pips
and more pronounced grooves than the norm. I would bet on that,
but can't guess the variety (it's not one I grow). If it is, the
flesh will be extremely sour, hard, with slight pear or quince
grittiness.

There are quite a few sub-tropical fruit that are very similar,
but I don't know of any that can be grown in the UK.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

On 28/11/07 23:30, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
| I was given this tonight by someone who lives in Westbury on Trym. She has
| seen these fruits growing on a bush (not a tree) in a garden and picked two
| up off the road. They smell very faintly citrusy to me and each seed
| chamber has two seeds in each side. She's not a gardener so can only tell
| me that the leaves are leaf shaped, not huge, not leathery and that the
| fruits are autumnal.
| http://i16.tinypic.com/7x8rupj.jpg

They are very like a Chaenomeles, but with larger and fewer pips
and more pronounced grooves than the norm. I would bet on that,
but can't guess the variety (it's not one I grow). If it is, the
flesh will be extremely sour, hard, with slight pear or quince
grittiness.

There are quite a few sub-tropical fruit that are very similar,
but I don't know of any that can be grown in the UK.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Chaenomeles crossed our minds but we've never seen any with these very
pronounced scoring in the skin. And this is a shrub, not a wall plant. I
think you've probably hit on something but it's going to be tough to pin
down. It's most definitely grown not far from their home - she sees it every
day taking the children to school. The thing is that it reminds me of
something so I wonder if you've started me in the right direction with the
Chaenomeles idea. The size of fruit would be about right.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In article , Sacha
writes


Chaenomeles crossed our minds but we've never seen any with these very
pronounced scoring in the skin.

What about

Hawthorn `Zlat` (means a golden).

Cultivar is endemic Crimean Pojarkova`s hawthorn - Crataegus pojarkovae
(Ñ. orientalis var. pojarkovae). The tree is about 3 m in height with
spineless branches. The fruit is ribbed globose to conical, yellow
golden, sour-sweet, excellent flavor. Fruit weight is 3 (5,5) g. Harvest
in mid-late September.


Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| Chaenomeles crossed our minds but we've never seen any with these very
| pronounced scoring in the skin. And this is a shrub, not a wall plant. I
| think you've probably hit on something but it's going to be tough to pin
| down. It's most definitely grown not far from their home - she sees it every
| day taking the children to school. The thing is that it reminds me of
| something so I wonder if you've started me in the right direction with the
| Chaenomeles idea. The size of fruit would be about right.

Nor have I, about the first, but some types are pretty lumpy. The shrub
aspect is find - Chaenomeles are merely grown as wall plants out of
habit, and they don't have to be. C. speciosa, for example, is a fairly
conventional shrub.

There is one species of Chaenomeles that I have not seen (or at least
not noticed at Kew or elsewhere!) - C. cathayensis. Given that it
looks SO much like one of that group of the Rosaceae, and I can't
think of any that match except for Chaenomeles, that's work looking
into.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In article ,
Janet Tweedy writes:
|
| What about
|
| Hawthorn `Zlat` (means a golden).
|
| Cultivar is endemic Crimean Pojarkova`s hawthorn - Crataegus pojarkovae
| (Ñ. orientalis var. pojarkovae). The tree is about 3 m in height with
| spineless branches. The fruit is ribbed globose to conical, yellow
| golden, sour-sweet, excellent flavor. Fruit weight is 3 (5,5) g. Harvest
| in mid-late September.

Well, yes, but those fruit are well over 20 grammes.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In article ,
(Nick Maclaren) writes:
|
| There is one species of Chaenomeles that I have not seen (or at least
| not noticed at Kew or elsewhere!) - C. cathayensis. Given that it
| looks SO much like one of that group of the Rosaceae, and I can't
| think of any that match except for Chaenomeles, that's work looking
| into.

There is also Pseudocydonia sinensis, but that doesn't usually have
grooved fruit, either!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes

In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| Chaenomeles crossed our minds but we've never seen any with these very
| pronounced scoring in the skin. And this is a shrub, not a wall plant. I
| think you've probably hit on something but it's going to be tough to pin
| down. It's most definitely grown not far from their home - she sees it every
| day taking the children to school. The thing is that it reminds me of
| something so I wonder if you've started me in the right direction with the
| Chaenomeles idea. The size of fruit would be about right.

Nor have I, about the first, but some types are pretty lumpy. The shrub
aspect is find - Chaenomeles are merely grown as wall plants out of
habit, and they don't have to be. C. speciosa, for example, is a fairly
conventional shrub.

There is one species of Chaenomeles that I have not seen (or at least
not noticed at Kew or elsewhere!) - C. cathayensis. Given that it
looks SO much like one of that group of the Rosaceae, and I can't
think of any that match except for Chaenomeles, that's work looking
into.

From Flora of China - "Pome fragrant, yellowish red, ovoid or
subcylindric, 6.7cm diam.". But the specimen I've seen labelled as
Chaenomeles cathayensis had green, and unribbed, fruits - but perhaps
they were unripe.

The photograph at

http://www.biologie.uni-ulm.de/systa...nocathafr1.htm

matches what I've seen (and the associated text contradicts the Flora of
China).

The ribbing seems to match Chaeonomeles japonica better. See, for
example

http://www.botanypictures.com/planti...onica%2002%20h
ortus%20a'dam.jpg

I skimmed the Flora of China. It seems that the only pomes in the right
size range are Malus, Pyrus, Cydonia and Chaenomeles (even Docynia is
smaller), so, assuming that it is indeed a pome, Chaenomeles is all
that's plausible.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes

In article ,
(Nick Maclaren) writes:
|
| There is one species of Chaenomeles that I have not seen (or at least
| not noticed at Kew or elsewhere!) - C. cathayensis. Given that it
| looks SO much like one of that group of the Rosaceae, and I can't
| think of any that match except for Chaenomeles, that's work looking
| into.

There is also Pseudocydonia sinensis, but that doesn't usually have
grooved fruit, either!

"Pome fragrant, dark yellow, narrowly ellipsoid, 10-15 cm, woody;"
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In article , (Nick Maclaren) writes:
|
| In article ,
| (Nick Maclaren) writes:
| |
| | There is one species of Chaenomeles that I have not seen (or at least
| | not noticed at Kew or elsewhere!) - C. cathayensis. Given that it
| | looks SO much like one of that group of the Rosaceae, and I can't
| | think of any that match except for Chaenomeles, that's work looking
| | into.
|
| There is also Pseudocydonia sinensis, but that doesn't usually have
| grooved fruit, either!

And Docynia, and possibly a few other genera that I have never heard
of! But I can't find any pictures or fruit descriptions of most of
them - Bean has enough to make grooving on Docynia doubtful, and to
rule out Heteromeles, but the Web fails pretty dismally.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

On 29/11/07 09:01, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article , (Nick
Maclaren) writes:
|
| In article ,
| (Nick Maclaren) writes:
| |
| | There is one species of Chaenomeles that I have not seen (or at least
| | not noticed at Kew or elsewhere!) - C. cathayensis. Given that it
| | looks SO much like one of that group of the Rosaceae, and I can't
| | think of any that match except for Chaenomeles, that's work looking
| | into.
|
| There is also Pseudocydonia sinensis, but that doesn't usually have
| grooved fruit, either!

And Docynia, and possibly a few other genera that I have never heard
of! But I can't find any pictures or fruit descriptions of most of
them - Bean has enough to make grooving on Docynia doubtful, and to
rule out Heteromeles, but the Web fails pretty dismally.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Thanks to you Nick, Stewart and Janet but I'm afraid it's still not pinned
down. None of the fruits you've discussed are grooved enough. I think you
could say these are about the size of a chestnut and in fact, the ribbing
makes me think of a peeled, cooked chestnut, though on these fruit it's
deeper, more pronounced. As I say, there's a faint citrus scent from it.
However, you've given me a few tracks to go down, so I'll let you know if it
does turn anything up. In the end, I suspect she'll just have to knock on
the door and ask - probably to be told it was there when the owner moved in!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In article , Sacha
writes

Thanks to you Nick, Stewart and Janet but I'm afraid it's still not pinned
down. None of the fruits you've discussed are grooved enough.

What about posting to the RHS?

--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

On 29/11/07 10:48, in article , "Janet
Tweedy" wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes

Thanks to you Nick, Stewart and Janet but I'm afraid it's still not pinned
down. None of the fruits you've discussed are grooved enough.

What about posting to the RHS?

Could do - good idea. I'll also ask her to knock on the door, though and to
take a photo of the whole thing. She describes the bush as looking as if
it's covered in lots of little pumpkins!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In article ,
Sacha writes:
| On 29/11/07 10:48, in article , "Janet
| Tweedy" wrote:
|
| What about posting to the RHS?
|
| Could do - good idea. I'll also ask her to knock on the door, though and to
| take a photo of the whole thing. She describes the bush as looking as if
| it's covered in lots of little pumpkins!

Critical aspects include whether the bush has thorns, and exactly
how the fruit are attached to it (e.g. whether via stems and on
what sort of age of wood).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

On 29/11/07 14:46, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
| On 29/11/07 10:48, in article , "Janet
| Tweedy" wrote:
|
| What about posting to the RHS?
|
| Could do - good idea. I'll also ask her to knock on the door, though and
to
| take a photo of the whole thing. She describes the bush as looking as if
| it's covered in lots of little pumpkins!

Critical aspects include whether the bush has thorns, and exactly
how the fruit are attached to it (e.g. whether via stems and on
what sort of age of wood).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Duly noted and passed on! Thanks everyone.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In message , Sacha
writes
On 29/11/07 14:46, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
| On 29/11/07 10:48, in article , "Janet
| Tweedy" wrote:
|
| What about posting to the RHS?
|
| Could do - good idea. I'll also ask her to knock on the door, though and
to
| take a photo of the whole thing. She describes the bush as looking as if
| it's covered in lots of little pumpkins!

Critical aspects include whether the bush has thorns, and exactly
how the fruit are attached to it (e.g. whether via stems and on
what sort of age of wood).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Duly noted and passed on! Thanks everyone.

Also whether there are the remains of the calyx at the distal end (the
end opposite the stalk) of the fruit.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

On 29/11/07 16:05, in article lid, "Stewart
Robert Hinsley" wrote:

In message , Sacha
writes
On 29/11/07 14:46, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
| On 29/11/07 10:48, in article , "Janet
| Tweedy" wrote:
|
| What about posting to the RHS?
|
| Could do - good idea. I'll also ask her to knock on the door, though and
to
| take a photo of the whole thing. She describes the bush as looking as if
| it's covered in lots of little pumpkins!

Critical aspects include whether the bush has thorns, and exactly
how the fruit are attached to it (e.g. whether via stems and on
what sort of age of wood).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Duly noted and passed on! Thanks everyone.

Also whether there are the remains of the calyx at the distal end (the
end opposite the stalk) of the fruit.

Will do. Thanks, Stewart. I must say there weren't on the two she gave us.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In message , Sacha
writes
On 29/11/07 16:05, in article lid, "Stewart
Robert Hinsley" wrote:

In message , Sacha
writes
On 29/11/07 14:46, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
| On 29/11/07 10:48, in article , "Janet
| Tweedy" wrote:
|
| What about posting to the RHS?
|
| Could do - good idea. I'll also ask her to knock on the door,
|though and
to
| take a photo of the whole thing. She describes the bush as
|looking as if
| it's covered in lots of little pumpkins!

Critical aspects include whether the bush has thorns, and exactly
how the fruit are attached to it (e.g. whether via stems and on
what sort of age of wood).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Duly noted and passed on! Thanks everyone.

Also whether there are the remains of the calyx at the distal end (the
end opposite the stalk) of the fruit.

Will do. Thanks, Stewart. I must say there weren't on the two she gave us.

That supports as an identification as Chaenomeles, as opposed to Cydonia
or Docynia. (Pseudocydonia is treated as a synonym of Chaenomeles in
Flora of China.)

Of the 16 genera present in China Raphiolepis also has caducuous sepals,
and the presence or absence of the calyx in fruit is variable in Sorbus,
Pyrus and Malus.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
I was given this tonight by someone who lives in Westbury on Trym. She has
seen these fruits growing on a bush (not a tree) in a garden and picked
two
up off the road. They smell very faintly citrusy to me and each seed
chamber has two seeds in each side. She's not a gardener so can only tell
me that the leaves are leaf shaped, not huge, not leathery and that the
fruits are autumnal.
http://i16.tinypic.com/7x8rupj.jpg

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

I'd suggest Hodgsonia Macrocarpa, I don't know if there are any coomon
names. Probably worth googling it.

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

On 29/11/07 18:14, in article , "Russel
Sprout" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
I was given this tonight by someone who lives in Westbury on Trym. She has
seen these fruits growing on a bush (not a tree) in a garden and picked
two
up off the road. They smell very faintly citrusy to me and each seed
chamber has two seeds in each side. She's not a gardener so can only tell
me that the leaves are leaf shaped, not huge, not leathery and that the
fruits are autumnal.
http://i16.tinypic.com/7x8rupj.jpg

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

I'd suggest Hodgsonia Macrocarpa, I don't know if there are any coomon
names. Probably worth googling it.


It's extraordinarily like it but H. macrocarpa is waaaay too big. The
Bristol fruits are about the size of a chestnut. What size are the fruits
of H. heteroclita, do you happen to know? Or are they the same plant under
different names?

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In message , Sacha
writes
On 29/11/07 18:14, in article , "Russel
Sprout" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
I was given this tonight by someone who lives in Westbury on Trym. She has
seen these fruits growing on a bush (not a tree) in a garden and picked
two
up off the road. They smell very faintly citrusy to me and each seed
chamber has two seeds in each side. She's not a gardener so can only tell
me that the leaves are leaf shaped, not huge, not leathery and that the
fruits are autumnal.
http://i16.tinypic.com/7x8rupj.jpg

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

I'd suggest Hodgsonia Macrocarpa, I don't know if there are any coomon
names. Probably worth googling it.


It's extraordinarily like it but H. macrocarpa is waaaay too big. The
Bristol fruits are about the size of a chestnut. What size are the fruits
of H. heteroclita, do you happen to know? Or are they the same plant under
different names?

There seems to some debate as to whether there is one of two species.
Wikipedia has H. macrocarpa as the southern form, and H. heteroclita as
the northern form. Some other sources give them as synonyms.

Even the northern form might not be hardy in Britain. Apart from the
size of the fruit (8" diam, 4-6" long in H. heteroclita), the plants are
woody climbers, not bushes, the leaves are 3 or more commonly 5-lobed,
and the flowers have long tendrils extending from the petals. I also
suspect that the seeds don't match - pictures look as if individual
seeds (6 in total) fill cavities in fruit pulp.

http://hua.huh.harvard.edu/china/mss...-MO_coauthorin
gFeb2007.htm

(It might be worth showing your fruits bisected vertically, rather than
horizontally, as this may help confirm that they are pomes.)

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In article ,
"Russel Sprout" writes:
|
| I'd suggest Hodgsonia Macrocarpa, I don't know if there are any coomon
| names. Probably worth googling it.

Hmm. That indicates something that we haven't asked. Is there an
apple-like boundary to the seed chamber (usually with 'fingernails'),
or are the seeds enclosed in a loose pulp with no clear boundary
between that and the flesh?

If the former, it is very unlikely (impossible?) to be a cucurbit
and is almost certainly one of the Rosaceae pome fruits. If the
latter, more or less the converse applies, though a cucurbit is
only one of many possibilities.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 29/11/07 18:14, in article , "Russel
Sprout" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
I was given this tonight by someone who lives in Westbury on Trym. She
has
seen these fruits growing on a bush (not a tree) in a garden and picked
two
up off the road. They smell very faintly citrusy to me and each seed
chamber has two seeds in each side. She's not a gardener so can only
tell
me that the leaves are leaf shaped, not huge, not leathery and that the
fruits are autumnal.
http://i16.tinypic.com/7x8rupj.jpg

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

I'd suggest Hodgsonia Macrocarpa, I don't know if there are any coomon
names. Probably worth googling it.


It's extraordinarily like it but H. macrocarpa is waaaay too big. The
Bristol fruits are about the size of a chestnut. What size are the fruits
of H. heteroclita, do you happen to know? Or are they the same plant
under
different names?

macrocarpa, as the name suggests is a big variety/species. There are many
similar variety/species in the wild that are smaller, only a few are named,
pinning this particular plant down would be difficult and probably the
province of and expert, not myself. If its heteroclita look out for the
flowers next hear, short lived, but absolutly amazing!

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"Russel Sprout" writes:
|
| I'd suggest Hodgsonia Macrocarpa, I don't know if there are any coomon
| names. Probably worth googling it.

Hmm. That indicates something that we haven't asked. Is there an
apple-like boundary to the seed chamber (usually with 'fingernails'),
or are the seeds enclosed in a loose pulp with no clear boundary
between that and the flesh?

If the former, it is very unlikely (impossible?) to be a cucurbit
and is almost certainly one of the Rosaceae pome fruits. If the
latter, more or less the converse applies, though a cucurbit is
only one of many possibilities.


Quince, or similar, is much more likely of course, I have seen quince deeply
lobed like that. It would be nice if it were something much more exotic
though.

could it be the Quince-Israel in this pickie looks sort of similar without the defined ridges.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nce-israel.jpg

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

On 29/11/07 19:03, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
"Russel Sprout" writes:
|
| I'd suggest Hodgsonia Macrocarpa, I don't know if there are any coomon
| names. Probably worth googling it.

Hmm. That indicates something that we haven't asked. Is there an
apple-like boundary to the seed chamber (usually with 'fingernails'),
or are the seeds enclosed in a loose pulp with no clear boundary
between that and the flesh?

If the former, it is very unlikely (impossible?) to be a cucurbit
and is almost certainly one of the Rosaceae pome fruits. If the
latter, more or less the converse applies, though a cucurbit is
only one of many possibilities.


The seeds are loose in their chamber with no flesh clinging to them and
there seem to be two seeds to each chamber on each half of the fruit halves.
IOW more like an apple, yes.


--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

On 29/11/07 19:08, in article , "Russel
Sprout" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 29/11/07 18:14, in article , "Russel
Sprout" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
I was given this tonight by someone who lives in Westbury on Trym. She
has
seen these fruits growing on a bush (not a tree) in a garden and picked
two
up off the road. They smell very faintly citrusy to me and each seed
chamber has two seeds in each side. She's not a gardener so can only
tell
me that the leaves are leaf shaped, not huge, not leathery and that the
fruits are autumnal.
http://i16.tinypic.com/7x8rupj.jpg

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

I'd suggest Hodgsonia Macrocarpa, I don't know if there are any coomon
names. Probably worth googling it.


It's extraordinarily like it but H. macrocarpa is waaaay too big. The
Bristol fruits are about the size of a chestnut. What size are the fruits
of H. heteroclita, do you happen to know? Or are they the same plant
under
different names?

macrocarpa, as the name suggests is a big variety/species. There are many
similar variety/species in the wild that are smaller, only a few are named,
pinning this particular plant down would be difficult and probably the
province of and expert, not myself. If its heteroclita look out for the
flowers next hear, short lived, but absolutly amazing!


I'll ask her if she's seen the flowers. I saw them on Google and amazing is
right!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

On 29/11/07 21:05, in article , "Granity"
wrote:


Sacha;762691 Wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
| On 29/11/07 10:48, in article ,
"Janet
| Tweedy" wrote:
|
| What about posting to the RHS?
|
| Could do - good idea. I'll also ask her to knock on the door,
though and
to
| take a photo of the whole thing. She describes the bush as looking
as if
| it's covered in lots of little pumpkins!

Critical aspects include whether the bush has thorns, and exactly
how the fruit are attached to it (e.g. whether via stems and on
what sort of age of wood).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Duly noted and passed on! Thanks everyone.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

could it be the Quince-Israel in this pickie looks sort of similar
without the defined ridges.

http://tinyurl.com/2fwzzg


[/i][/color]
I'm afraid not. It looks much too big and it's not ridged in any uniform
way.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| The seeds are loose in their chamber with no flesh clinging to them and
| there seem to be two seeds to each chamber on each half of the fruit halves.
| IOW more like an apple, yes.

Yes, but what's the outside the the chamber like? Does it have a
definite, relatively tough, inner layer or not?

And, related to that, how many chambers are there? Robert said
that cutting it the other way would help. If there really are only
two chambers, each with two seeds, the plot thickens ....


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 29/11/07 09:01, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article , (Nick
Maclaren) writes:
|
| In article ,
| (Nick Maclaren) writes:
| |
| | There is one species of Chaenomeles that I have not seen (or at
least
| | not noticed at Kew or elsewhere!) - C. cathayensis. Given that it
| | looks SO much like one of that group of the Rosaceae, and I can't
| | think of any that match except for Chaenomeles, that's work looking
| | into.
|
| There is also Pseudocydonia sinensis, but that doesn't usually have
| grooved fruit, either!

And Docynia, and possibly a few other genera that I have never heard
of! But I can't find any pictures or fruit descriptions of most of
them - Bean has enough to make grooving on Docynia doubtful, and to
rule out Heteromeles, but the Web fails pretty dismally.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Thanks to you Nick, Stewart and Janet but I'm afraid it's still not pinned
down. None of the fruits you've discussed are grooved enough. I think
you
could say these are about the size of a chestnut and in fact, the ribbing
makes me think of a peeled, cooked chestnut, though on these fruit it's
deeper, more pronounced. As I say, there's a faint citrus scent from it.
However, you've given me a few tracks to go down, so I'll let you know if
it
does turn anything up. In the end, I suspect she'll just have to knock on
the door and ask - probably to be told it was there when the owner moved
in!

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Looks rather like a Japanese Flowering Quince there is a similar variety
at
www.obsthof-wassermann.de/cido2.jpg or Vulgaris
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_clos...refnum=1301516 don't be
too phased by the ridging on our plant the fruits varied from almost smooth
to very wrinkly not supposed to be edible although Quince Jelly is a
possibility the thorns are probably on par with Himalayen Blackberry though
not a long.
Derek

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In article ,
"Derek" writes:
|
| Looks rather like a Japanese Flowering Quince ...

Very true! The Latin name for that is Chaenomeles :-)

What none of us can remember seeing is one of them that is ridged
like a pumpkin.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 29/11/07 10:48, in article , "Janet
Tweedy" wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes

Thanks to you Nick, Stewart and Janet but I'm afraid it's still not
pinned
down. None of the fruits you've discussed are grooved enough.

What about posting to the RHS?

Could do - good idea. I'll also ask her to knock on the door, though and
to
take a photo of the whole thing. She describes the bush as looking as if
it's covered in lots of little pumpkins!

Couldn't...ahem...tell us what street it's on, could you...?

someone

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

On 29/11/07 23:46, in article ,
"someone" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 29/11/07 10:48, in article , "Janet
Tweedy" wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes

Thanks to you Nick, Stewart and Janet but I'm afraid it's still not
pinned
down. None of the fruits you've discussed are grooved enough.

What about posting to the RHS?

Could do - good idea. I'll also ask her to knock on the door, though and
to
take a photo of the whole thing. She describes the bush as looking as if
it's covered in lots of little pumpkins!

Couldn't...ahem...tell us what street it's on, could you...?

someone


Sorry, no! Even if I could, I don't think I should, if you see what I mean.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

On 29/11/07 23:07, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| The seeds are loose in their chamber with no flesh clinging to them and
| there seem to be two seeds to each chamber on each half of the fruit
halves.
| IOW more like an apple, yes.

Yes, but what's the outside the the chamber like? Does it have a
definite, relatively tough, inner layer or not?

And, related to that, how many chambers are there? Robert said
that cutting it the other way would help. If there really are only
two chambers, each with two seeds, the plot thickens ....


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Cutting it transversely there are five seed chambers. Some have two small
seeds in, some have one larger seed, about the size of an apple seed, just a
little smaller. The chambers are well defined and yes, I suppose you could
say there's a lining to them which is whiter than the pale green flesh of
the fruit itself.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| Cutting it transversely there are five seed chambers. Some have two small
| seeds in, some have one larger seed, about the size of an apple seed, just a
| little smaller. The chambers are well defined and yes, I suppose you could
| say there's a lining to them which is whiter than the pale green flesh of
| the fruit itself.

That matches the Pomoideae pretty well! I would still bet on it being
Chaenomeles or similar, because only the ridging is anomalous. But
exactly what?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes

In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| Cutting it transversely there are five seed chambers. Some have two small
| seeds in, some have one larger seed, about the size of an apple seed, just a
| little smaller. The chambers are well defined and yes, I suppose you could
| say there's a lining to them which is whiter than the pale green flesh of
| the fruit itself.

That matches the Pomoideae pretty well! I would still bet on it being
Chaenomeles or similar, because only the ridging is anomalous. But
exactly what?

5 locules is right for Chaenomeles (but also for Cydonia, and several
other pome fruits).

The fruiting pedicels of Chaenomeles are short or absent, which would be
another feature to verify.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

On 30/11/07 11:11, in article , "Stewart
Robert Hinsley" wrote:

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes

In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| Cutting it transversely there are five seed chambers. Some have two small
| seeds in, some have one larger seed, about the size of an apple seed, just
a
| little smaller. The chambers are well defined and yes, I suppose you
could
| say there's a lining to them which is whiter than the pale green flesh of
| the fruit itself.

That matches the Pomoideae pretty well! I would still bet on it being
Chaenomeles or similar, because only the ridging is anomalous. But
exactly what?

5 locules is right for Chaenomeles (but also for Cydonia, and several
other pome fruits).

The fruiting pedicels of Chaenomeles are short or absent, which would be
another feature to verify.

Here's another pic of it cut across the fruit. You can see the indentations
of the ridges clearly. As I say, it's about the size of a chestnut and a
little reminiscent of one when peeled and cooked.
http://i4.tinypic.com/7yofkfd.jpg


--
Sacha

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| Here's another pic of it cut across the fruit. You can see the indentations
| of the ridges clearly. As I say, it's about the size of a chestnut and a
| little reminiscent of one when peeled and cooked.
| http://i4.tinypic.com/7yofkfd.jpg

The latter is NOT like Chaenomeles! I remain baffled.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Fruit and therefore plant ID, please
 

On 30/11/07 12:25, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| Here's another pic of it cut across the fruit. You can see the
indentations
| of the ridges clearly. As I say, it's about the size of a chestnut and a
| little reminiscent of one when peeled and cooked.
| http://i4.tinypic.com/7yofkfd.jpg

The latter is NOT like Chaenomeles! I remain baffled.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I'm almost relieved, Nick because I wondered if I was trying to ID something
incredibly obvious. The nearest seems to be the Hodgsonia for external
appearance but not remotely like it for size. These just look very small
pumpkins! I'm going to prod them to take a photo.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'