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Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
Does anybody know if this lovely tumbling Rosemary is available anywhere in the UK? It's called "Rosemarinus officinalis Irene" or Rosemary Irene, and it thrives in full sun, it's apparently "supertough" - withstanding summer dryness, and it's fast growing. A ground-cover variant that tumbles when it reaches the top of a wall. http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/g...ne-Rosemar.jpg Thanks, Eddy. |
Rosemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
sorry about the typo!
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Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
On 6/3/08 18:10, in article , "Eddy"
wrote: Does anybody know if this lovely tumbling Rosemary is available anywhere in the UK? It's called "Rosemarinus officinalis Irene" or Rosemary Irene, and it thrives in full sun, it's apparently "supertough" - withstanding summer dryness, and it's fast growing. A ground-cover variant that tumbles when it reaches the top of a wall. http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/g...¤t=Rosem arinusofficinalisIrene-Rosemar.jpg Where was the photo taken? The only mention of R. Irene I've found is he http://www.worldspices.co.uk/Rosemary.html -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon 'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.' |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
Sacha wrote:
On 6/3/08 18:10, in article , "Eddy" wrote: Does anybody know if this lovely tumbling Rosemary is available anywhere in the UK? It's called "Rosemarinus officinalis Irene" or Rosemary Irene, and it thrives in full sun, it's apparently "supertough" - withstanding summer dryness, and it's fast growing. A ground-cover variant that tumbles when it reaches the top of a wall. http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/g...¤t=Rosem arinusofficinalisIrene-Rosemar.jpg Where was the photo taken? The only mention of R. Irene I've found is he http://www.worldspices.co.uk/Rosemary.html Hi Sacha, Hope you're well. Thanks for the link. Above the list in which Irene is included it says, "The following are frequently sold", and it's a UK site . . . so I hope it's true! We use Rosemary from the garden in great amounts, particularly on chicken, so to get hold of this Irene would be to kill two birds with one stone! Eddy. P.S. I think the photo is from the US and may have originated from those who created this variant . . . which is, apparently, patented. |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
Sacha wrote:
The only mention of R. Irene I've found is he http://www.worldspices.co.uk/Rosemary.html Sacha, have just discovered that that entire site, above, consists of material taken from Wikipedia . . . which is largely USA-generated. So perhaps not "frequently sold" in UK at all? Eddy. |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
In message , Eddy
writes Sacha wrote: On 6/3/08 18:10, in article , "Eddy" wrote: Does anybody know if this lovely tumbling Rosemary is available anywhere in the UK? It's called "Rosemarinus officinalis Irene" or Rosemary Irene, and it thrives in full sun, it's apparently "supertough" - withstanding summer dryness, and it's fast growing. A ground-cover variant that tumbles when it reaches the top of a wall. http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/g...¤t=Rosem arinusofficinalisIrene-Rosemar.jpg Where was the photo taken? The only mention of R. Irene I've found is he http://www.worldspices.co.uk/Rosemary.html Hi Sacha, Hope you're well. Thanks for the link. Above the list in which Irene is included it says, "The following are frequently sold", and it's a UK site . . . so I hope it's true! That turns out to be repurposed text from Wikipedia. It's not in Plant Finder, and cursory web searches aren't turning up any UK sources. However, it's Rosmarinus, not Rosemarinus - using the former should make your web searches more productive. We use Rosemary from the garden in great amounts, particularly on chicken, so to get hold of this Irene would be to kill two birds with one stone! Eddy. P.S. I think the photo is from the US and may have originated from those who created this variant . . . which is, apparently, patented. -- Stewart Robert Hinsley |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
On 6 Mar, 18:55, Eddy wrote:
Sacha wrote: The only mention of R. Irene I've found is he http://www.worldspices.co.uk/Rosemary.html Sacha, have just discovered that that entire site, above, consists of material taken from Wikipedia . . . which is largely USA-generated. *So perhaps not "frequently sold" in UK at all? Eddy. Looking through the Plantfinder there are R. officinalis angustissimus Corsicus Prostratus R. officinalis angustissimus Prostratus group David Hill Abacus Nurseries |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
On 6/3/08 18:50, in article , "Eddy"
wrote: Sacha wrote: On 6/3/08 18:10, in article , "Eddy" wrote: Does anybody know if this lovely tumbling Rosemary is available anywhere in the UK? It's called "Rosemarinus officinalis Irene" or Rosemary Irene, and it thrives in full sun, it's apparently "supertough" - withstanding summer dryness, and it's fast growing. A ground-cover variant that tumbles when it reaches the top of a wall. http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/g...ew¤t=Ros em arinusofficinalisIrene-Rosemar.jpg Where was the photo taken? The only mention of R. Irene I've found is he http://www.worldspices.co.uk/Rosemary.html Hi Sacha, Hope you're well. Thanks for the link. Above the list in which Irene is included it says, "The following are frequently sold", and it's a UK site . . . so I hope it's true! We use Rosemary from the garden in great amounts, particularly on chicken, so to get hold of this Irene would be to kill two birds with one stone! Eddy. P.S. I think the photo is from the US and may have originated from those who created this variant . . . which is, apparently, patented. I thought it was one you grew or had seen growing in UK. As with all plants, it's possible someone has just called it 'Irene' because they lack the real name and got it from someone called Irene. There are lots of prostrate rosemaries you could grow so I wonder why this one is of particular interest to you? -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon 'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.' |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
On 6/3/08 18:55, in article , "Eddy"
wrote: Sacha wrote: The only mention of R. Irene I've found is he http://www.worldspices.co.uk/Rosemary.html Sacha, have just discovered that that entire site, above, consists of material taken from Wikipedia . . . which is largely USA-generated. So perhaps not "frequently sold" in UK at all? Eddy. No idea, unless you're just going on R. officinalis. I didn't go further than looking it up on your given information,the name 'Irene'. I don't know where it's grown in UK. All I got was the site I posted for you. I have an old Plant Finder on my desk (04-05) and there is no mention of such a rosemary. Perhaps you could ask Olivier Filippi if he knows of it. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon 'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.' |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
On 7/3/08 10:26, in article ,
"Charlie Pridham" wrote: In article , says... On 6/3/08 18:55, in article , "Eddy" wrote: Sacha wrote: The only mention of R. Irene I've found is he http://www.worldspices.co.uk/Rosemary.html Sacha, have just discovered that that entire site, above, consists of material taken from Wikipedia . . . which is largely USA-generated. So perhaps not "frequently sold" in UK at all? Eddy. No idea, unless you're just going on R. officinalis. I didn't go further than looking it up on your given information,the name 'Irene'. I don't know where it's grown in UK. All I got was the site I posted for you. I have an old Plant Finder on my desk (04-05) and there is no mention of such a rosemary. Perhaps you could ask Olivier Filippi if he knows of it. Rosmarinus officinalis 'Irene'? (Irene Rosemary): High Country Gardens Seems it was found growing wild in northern california and has been registered for plant breeders rights and the name trade marked, I have not seen any outlets over here but no doubt it wont be long. I am a little puzzled as I thought Rosemary was a med. plant? do they have their own species in California or is it just a garden escape. And bingo! I've had a brainwave and looked up San Marcos Growers in Santa Barbara who propagate Ray's Nemesia out there. They have Rosemary officinalis 'Irene'! I'm going to email them and ask if they know of an outlet in UK. I imagine this is where Eddy found the photo because they show the same one and have this text: "Habit and Cultural Information Category: Shrub Family: Lamiaceae (Labiatae) (Mints) Origin: Mediterranean (Europe) Evergreen: Yes Flower Color: Blue Violet Bloomtime: Winter/Spring Height: 1-2 feet Width: 6-8 feet Exposu Full Sun Seaside: Yes Drought Tolerant: Yes Deer Tolerant: Yes Irrigation Req.: Low Water Needs Winter Hardiness: 15-20° F Rosmarinus officinalis Irene PP9,124 ['Renzels'] (Trailing Blue Rosemary) - A prostrate evergreen shrub to 2 feet tall by 6-8 feet wide with bright green foliage and blue violet flowers in late winter through early spring with sporadic bloom year-round. This prostrate rosemary has been touted as a breakthrough in rosemary's because of its brilliant blue-violet floral color and greener foliage. Cascades beautifully over walls with a hummocky growth habit. As with other Rosemary it is resistant to deer and rabbit predation, tolerant to salt spray, alkaline soils and drought. This plant was discovered by Phil Johnson and is a patented variety under the cultivar name 'Renzels'. The description above is based on our research and observations of this plant growing in our nursery and garden. We would appreciate hearing from anyone who has additional information or disagrees with what we have written." -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon 'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.' |
Rosemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
Dave Hill wrote:
Looking through the Plantfinder there are R. officinalis angustissimus Corsicus Prostratus R. officinalis angustissimus Prostratus group I've only had a quick google, but the following seems to suggest that "prostrate" rosemary is not like the American "Irene". It appears to be more a dwarf rosemary, rather than a creeping/tumbling groundcover variety. See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/plant...es/10527.shtml Sacha, am looking forward to hearing the results of your email to the States. Maybe Irene emerged only recently? Eddy. |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
In message , Charlie
Pridham writes In article , says... On 6/3/08 18:55, in article , "Eddy" wrote: Sacha wrote: The only mention of R. Irene I've found is he http://www.worldspices.co.uk/Rosemary.html Sacha, have just discovered that that entire site, above, consists of material taken from Wikipedia . . . which is largely USA-generated. So perhaps not "frequently sold" in UK at all? Eddy. No idea, unless you're just going on R. officinalis. I didn't go further than looking it up on your given information,the name 'Irene'. I don't know where it's grown in UK. All I got was the site I posted for you. I have an old Plant Finder on my desk (04-05) and there is no mention of such a rosemary. Perhaps you could ask Olivier Filippi if he knows of it. Rosmarinus officinalis 'Irene'? (Irene Rosemary): High Country Gardens Seems it was found growing wild in northern california and has been registered for plant breeders rights and the name trade marked, I have not seen any outlets over here but no doubt it wont be long. I am a little puzzled as I thought Rosemary was a med. plant? do they have their own species in California or is it just a garden escape. http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/g...41721&expand=1 -- Stewart Robert Hinsley |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:10:41 GMT, Eddy
wrote: Does anybody know if this lovely tumbling Rosemary is available anywhere in the UK? It's called "Rosemarinus officinalis Irene" or Rosemary Irene, and it thrives in full sun, it's apparently "supertough" - withstanding summer dryness, and it's fast growing. A ground-cover variant that tumbles when it reaches the top of a wall. http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/g...ne-Rosemar.jpg Thanks, Eddy. I saw a rosemary growing like that over walls in St Mawes, Cornwall. I came home and tried to find out what it was without success. If I had a wall I'd have continued my search! It was really beautiful, very like your photo. Pam in Bristol |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
On 7/3/08 17:29, in article , "Pam
Moore" wrote: On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:10:41 GMT, Eddy wrote: Does anybody know if this lovely tumbling Rosemary is available anywhere in the UK? It's called "Rosemarinus officinalis Irene" or Rosemary Irene, and it thrives in full sun, it's apparently "supertough" - withstanding summer dryness, and it's fast growing. A ground-cover variant that tumbles when it reaches the top of a wall. http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/g...w¤t=Rose marinusofficinalisIrene-Rosemar.jpg Thanks, Eddy. I saw a rosemary growing like that over walls in St Mawes, Cornwall. I came home and tried to find out what it was without success. If I had a wall I'd have continued my search! It was really beautiful, very like your photo. Pam in Bristol That may well have been the so-called 'Salcombe Rosemary' that I posted a pic of on here some time ago, Pam. Nobody can actually name it but thinks it must be a sport of some sort. I think Judith's husband is still trying to get his botanist friends to track that one down. The Salcombe one is even longer but from the description of 'Irene', I'd say the Salcombe Rosemary isn't as deep in colour, perhaps. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon 'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.' |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
In article ,
says... In message , Charlie Pridham writes In article , says... On 6/3/08 18:55, in article , "Eddy" wrote: Sacha wrote: The only mention of R. Irene I've found is he http://www.worldspices.co.uk/Rosemary.html Sacha, have just discovered that that entire site, above, consists of material taken from Wikipedia . . . which is largely USA-generated. So perhaps not "frequently sold" in UK at all? Eddy. No idea, unless you're just going on R. officinalis. I didn't go further than looking it up on your given information,the name 'Irene'. I don't know where it's grown in UK. All I got was the site I posted for you. I have an old Plant Finder on my desk (04-05) and there is no mention of such a rosemary. Perhaps you could ask Olivier Filippi if he knows of it. Rosmarinus officinalis 'Irene'? (Irene Rosemary): High Country Gardens Seems it was found growing wild in northern california and has been registered for plant breeders rights and the name trade marked, I have not seen any outlets over here but no doubt it wont be long. I am a little puzzled as I thought Rosemary was a med. plant? do they have their own species in California or is it just a garden escape. http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/g...41721&expand=1 Thanks, that makes it pretty clear. -- Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall www.roselandhouse.co.uk Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and Lapageria rosea |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
On 7/3/08 18:45, in article ,
"Charlie Pridham" wrote: In article , says... In message , Charlie Pridham writes In article , says... On 6/3/08 18:55, in article , "Eddy" wrote: Sacha wrote: The only mention of R. Irene I've found is he http://www.worldspices.co.uk/Rosemary.html Sacha, have just discovered that that entire site, above, consists of material taken from Wikipedia . . . which is largely USA-generated. So perhaps not "frequently sold" in UK at all? Eddy. No idea, unless you're just going on R. officinalis. I didn't go further than looking it up on your given information,the name 'Irene'. I don't know where it's grown in UK. All I got was the site I posted for you. I have an old Plant Finder on my desk (04-05) and there is no mention of such a rosemary. Perhaps you could ask Olivier Filippi if he knows of it. Rosmarinus officinalis 'Irene'? (Irene Rosemary): High Country Gardens Seems it was found growing wild in northern california and has been registered for plant breeders rights and the name trade marked, I have not seen any outlets over here but no doubt it wont be long. I am a little puzzled as I thought Rosemary was a med. plant? do they have their own species in California or is it just a garden escape. http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/g...41721&expand=1 Thanks, that makes it pretty clear. Following on from this, I've heard back from San Marcos Growers who have put me in touch with Phil Johnson, the owner of what we call PBR on this Rosemary. I've asked him if he knows of an outlet in UK. I have also the name and details of the person who handles the Patent so if need be I can get in touch with her. I think we have to just wait to see what transpires now. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon 'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.' |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
Pam Moore wrote:
I saw a rosemary growing like that over walls in St Mawes, Cornwall. I came home and tried to find out what it was without success. If I had a wall I'd have continued my search! It was really beautiful, very like your photo. Thanks, Pam! So the stuff IS in the UK! It's likely then that somebody will be selling it. Let's track it down! Eddy. |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
Sacha wrote:
That may well have been the so-called 'Salcombe Rosemary' that I posted a pic of on here some time ago, Pam. Nobody can actually name it but thinks it must be a sport of some sort. I think Judith's husband is still trying to get his botanist friends to track that one down. The Salcombe one is even longer but from the description of 'Irene', I'd say the Salcombe Rosemary isn't as deep in colour, perhaps. http://i1.tinypic.com/6c6mufk.jpg Wow, Sacha! That's beautiful. I think I feel an obsession coming on! I've GOT to have some of this. Hmmmm. Pity I can't pick a little sprig while sauntering past that wall! :-) Makes the US patenting of the Irene a bit of a nonsense, doesn't it! Unless, of course, it IS the Irene! Eddy. P.S. Off topic, Sacha, did you hear the R4 news this morning and the interview with a Jersey chap who says Jersey has similarities to certain East European states, in terms of being closed and somewhat governed by fear! He referred to the power of the island's Bailiff, for example, saying it was a left-over of France's Ancien Regime. All I can say is that in researching my grandparents' fate there (during the Nazi occupation) I have met some resistance and "closedness" from island authorities. They have not wanted to be as communicative as one would have expected! |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
Sacha wrote:
Following on from this, I've heard back from San Marcos Growers who have put me in touch with Phil Johnson, the owner of what we call PBR on this Rosemary. I've asked him if he knows of an outlet in UK. I have also the name and details of the person who handles the Patent so if need be I can get in touch with her. I think we have to just wait to see what transpires now. Thanks, Sacha. Will be watching this thread now with bated breath! Eddy. |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
On 8/3/08 17:56, in article , "Eddy"
wrote: Sacha wrote: That may well have been the so-called 'Salcombe Rosemary' that I posted a pic of on here some time ago, Pam. Nobody can actually name it but thinks it must be a sport of some sort. I think Judith's husband is still trying to get his botanist friends to track that one down. The Salcombe one is even longer but from the description of 'Irene', I'd say the Salcombe Rosemary isn't as deep in colour, perhaps. http://i1.tinypic.com/6c6mufk.jpg Wow, Sacha! That's beautiful. I think I feel an obsession coming on! I've GOT to have some of this. Hmmmm. Pity I can't pick a little sprig while sauntering past that wall! :-) Makes the US patenting of the Irene a bit of a nonsense, doesn't it! Unless, of course, it IS the Irene! That's what's so intriguing. I hope to hear/learn more about it. Eddy. P.S. Off topic, Sacha, did you hear the R4 news this morning and the interview with a Jersey chap who says Jersey has similarities to certain East European states, in terms of being closed and somewhat governed by fear! He referred to the power of the island's Bailiff, for example, saying it was a left-over of France's Ancien Regime. All I can say is that in researching my grandparents' fate there (during the Nazi occupation) I have met some resistance and "closedness" from island authorities. They have not wanted to be as communicative as one would have expected! I'm finding this Haut de la Garenne thing very peculiar. One journalist wrote of 'sink estates'. I don't know of one 'sink estate' in Jersey. The one which once had a bad reputation is now changed totally. And Stuart Syvret has said that the 'Jersey people' have been complicit in a cover up. Well, I'm 'Jersey people' and I've lived in the island for varying periods, having been born there. The longest I lived there was from late 1975 to 1997. In my last 8 years there, I lived about 3 minutes from Haut de la Garenne. I can say, hand on heart, that in all those years I have never heard one whisper of the horrors that appear to have gone on there. In fact, in the mid 90s, that place was used as a boarding house for a local school (not remotely implicated in this investigation) and I know for certain that nobody using it then knew of this story. The extent to which it was known has been blown out of all proportion, though I do not dispute that horrors certainly went on there. I know one of those who has recently declared themselves as being an abused child so I'm not in denial about it. It is possible that some local officials *of that time* knew of abuse and maltreatment of children but the public as a whole, no, never, or not to my knowledge and without wishing to appear boastful, I was pretty well connected in the island and knew a very wide circle of people for a great number of years. I wish Frank Walker and Stuart Syvret would stop their skirmishing and let the police do their job. In my view, both are prejudicing the eventual outcome. There can be no doubt that all this has to be exposed and any living culprits dealt with to the extreme of the law. But the facts are that many are dead so some truths will never be revealed. Senator Krichefski has been mentioned as an abuser by one person. He was an enormously prominent public figure, both as a Senator and in the tailor's shop he owned. But he's dead. This is going to be a major problem, always. The idea that the island is closed and governed by fear is simply daft. The Bailiff is a combination of the head of the judiciary and Speaker and the Governor is the Monarch's representative. This is no different to the Lord Chancellor and the Monarch herself. I happen to know the current Bailiff slightly and I know his Deputy quite well. There is nothing 'frightening' or intimidating about either of these men, other perhaps, than their very considerable intelligence. I knew a past Bailiff (now deceased) even better because he and my mother did a lot of AmDram together during the Occupation years. There is a member of the British Parliament with responsibility for the Channel Islands. Fear of what by whom? Anyone can stand for the States, it costs nothing, compared to English or US elections. At one point some people suggested I did so - not a prayer - I'd hate it! I've never heard of anyone being 'warned off' from taking for the States but I have heard of a lot of pub room lawyers and right now, they're having a field day. There are no party politics so you vote for the person you consider best for the job for your Parish (Deputy) or the island as a whole (Senator). What would serve justice and police investigations best is for those who keep sniping at each other to shut right up and let the police, who seem to be extremely thorough and led well, to get on with their job. If you're having trouble with regard to your own family, I suggest you contact Freddie Cohen who is still, I think, a member of the States. He is President of the Jersey Jewish Congregation, too. He's no push over when it comes to Jewish history in Jersey. I think you will find that it isn't a question of 'closedness' so much as ignorance. The Islands were cut off from the mainland of UK for 5 years and received only sporadic news and information and all of that was obtained through illegal wireless sets. The penalty for having one was deportation or worse. From the German side - their masters during the Occupation - all they knew was what the Germans told them. That's what Occupation means - loss of freedom, loss of autonomy, loss of communication. At the time that Jews were taken from the islands, or from parts of Occupied Europe, nobody knew what they were going to because nobody had the gift we have now of hindsight. Do get in touch with Freddie Cohen. If he can help you, I'm sure he will. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon 'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.' |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
Sacha wrote:
On 8/3/08 17:56, in article , "Eddy" wrote: Sacha wrote: That may well have been the so-called 'Salcombe Rosemary' that I posted a pic of on here some time ago, Pam. Nobody can actually name it but thinks it must be a sport of some sort. I think Judith's husband is still trying to get his botanist friends to track that one down. The Salcombe one is even longer but from the description of 'Irene', I'd say the Salcombe Rosemary isn't as deep in colour, perhaps. http://i1.tinypic.com/6c6mufk.jpg Wow, Sacha! That's beautiful. I think I feel an obsession coming on! I've GOT to have some of this. Hmmmm. Pity I can't pick a little sprig while sauntering past that wall! :-) Makes the US patenting of the Irene a bit of a nonsense, doesn't it! Unless, of course, it IS the Irene! That's what's so intriguing. I hope to hear/learn more about it. I'm looking forward to it. Eddy. P.S. Off topic, Sacha, did you hear the R4 news this morning and the interview with a Jersey chap who says Jersey has similarities to certain East European states, in terms of being closed and somewhat governed by fear! He referred to the power of the island's Bailiff, for example, saying it was a left-over of France's Ancien Regime. All I can say is that in researching my grandparents' fate there (during the Nazi occupation) I have met some resistance and "closedness" from island authorities. They have not wanted to be as communicative as one would have expected! I'm finding this Haut de la Garenne thing very peculiar. One journalist wrote of 'sink estates'. I don't know of one 'sink estate' in Jersey. The one which once had a bad reputation is now changed totally. And Stuart Syvret has said that the 'Jersey people' have been complicit in a cover up. Well, I'm 'Jersey people' and I've lived in the island for varying periods, having been born there. The longest I lived there was from late 1975 to 1997. In my last 8 years there, I lived about 3 minutes from Haut de la Garenne. I can say, hand on heart, that in all those years I have never heard one whisper of the horrors that appear to have gone on there. In fact, in the mid 90s, that place was used as a boarding house for a local school (not remotely implicated in this investigation) and I know for certain that nobody using it then knew of this story. The extent to which it was known has been blown out of all proportion, though I do not dispute that horrors certainly went on there. I know one of those who has recently declared themselves as being an abused child so I'm not in denial about it. It is possible that some local officials *of that time* knew of abuse and maltreatment of children but the public as a whole, no, never, or not to my knowledge and without wishing to appear boastful, I was pretty well connected in the island and knew a very wide circle of people for a great number of years. I wish Frank Walker and Stuart Syvret would stop their skirmishing and let the police do their job. In my view, both are prejudicing the eventual outcome. There can be no doubt that all this has to be exposed and any living culprits dealt with to the extreme of the law. But the facts are that many are dead so some truths will never be revealed. Senator Krichefski has been mentioned as an abuser by one person. He was an enormously prominent public figure, both as a Senator and in the tailor's shop he owned. But he's dead. This is going to be a major problem, always. The idea that the island is closed and governed by fear is simply daft. The Bailiff is a combination of the head of the judiciary and Speaker and the Governor is the Monarch's representative. This is no different to the Lord Chancellor and the Monarch herself. I happen to know the current Bailiff slightly and I know his Deputy quite well. There is nothing 'frightening' or intimidating about either of these men, other perhaps, than their very considerable intelligence. I knew a past Bailiff (now deceased) even better because he and my mother did a lot of AmDram together during the Occupation years. There is a member of the British Parliament with responsibility for the Channel Islands. Fear of what by whom? Anyone can stand for the States, it costs nothing, compared to English or US elections. At one point some people suggested I did so - not a prayer - I'd hate it! I've never heard of anyone being 'warned off' from taking for the States but I have heard of a lot of pub room lawyers and right now, they're having a field day. There are no party politics so you vote for the person you consider best for the job for your Parish (Deputy) or the island as a whole (Senator). What would serve justice and police investigations best is for those who keep sniping at each other to shut right up and let the police, who seem to be extremely thorough and led well, to get on with their job. If you're having trouble with regard to your own family, I suggest you contact Freddie Cohen who is still, I think, a member of the States. He is President of the Jersey Jewish Congregation, too. He's no push over when it comes to Jewish history in Jersey. I think you will find that it isn't a question of 'closedness' so much as ignorance. The Islands were cut off from the mainland of UK for 5 years and received only sporadic news and information and all of that was obtained through illegal wireless sets. The penalty for having one was deportation or worse. From the German side - their masters during the Occupation - all they knew was what the Germans told them. That's what Occupation means - loss of freedom, loss of autonomy, loss of communication. At the time that Jews were taken from the islands, or from parts of Occupied Europe, nobody knew what they were going to because nobody had the gift we have now of hindsight. Do get in touch with Freddie Cohen. If he can help you, I'm sure he will. Fascinating, Sacha. Thanks for this. It's certainly a very interesting situation. I'll be watching all news coming out of Jersey from now on, as will you, I am sure. I have a Jewish contact who is quite critical with regard to how Jersey authorities responded to the treatment of Jews by the Nazis during the early years of the occupation. I will tell her of Freddie Cohen, if she doesn't already know of him. Eddy. |
Orsemarinus officinalis Irene - UK available?
On 8/3/08 19:09, in article ,
"Eddy" wrote: snip Fascinating, Sacha. Thanks for this. It's certainly a very interesting situation. I'll be watching all news coming out of Jersey from now on, as will you, I am sure. I have a Jewish contact who is quite critical with regard to how Jersey authorities responded to the treatment of Jews by the Nazis during the early years of the occupation. I will tell her of Freddie Cohen, if she doesn't already know of him. Eddy. Good idea. If she or her family didn't live in Jersey during the Occupation they'll find all sorts of information valuable. Everyone was in a bit of a turmoil then and my own family was within a whisker of being deported, though in a very different way. I don't know if the news from Haut de la Garenne will be of particular interest to you but there is always that possibility. There must be a Jersey local online group that you may want to read. -- Sacha http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon 'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.' |
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