Gardeners World. Allotments and Joe Swift
I was really looking forward to the present series of Gardeners World
when it was announced that they would be doing an allotment from scratch as I am in a similar position and was hoping to learn from this. But then, unaccountably, the BBC put Joe Swift in charge of this!! First off, he hires a JCB to skim off all the surface grass and weeds. Well, how practical is that for most allotmenteers? I can barely get a wheelbarrow to my plot!! Then he goes ahead and rotavates the whole place, chopping up and multiplying all the perennial weed roots. Is that good practice? Next he lays out triangular , and other odd-shaped, raised beds!! Where is the sense in that? Regular oblong or square shaped beds must make for easier sowing of crops in a straight line and for subsequent hoeing? And how do you rotate crops if your beds are all of a different size? And then it comes to planting out his onion sets!! And Joe Swift doesn't know what to do and has to phone Monty Don on the mobile for advice!! I thought Joe Swift should know how to do this? I am utterly disappointed with this whole allotment thing. I am getting no real practical advice from Joe Swift when I was expecting an expert vegetable grower to be fronting this part of the program. It seems to me that the BBC Gardeners World are just cashing in on the current 'grow your own' theme at the moment without offering any real help at all. Joe Swift is just the front guy. It's becoming like all those cookery programs whose aim is to promote the Chef without actually teaching anyone how to cook. So does Joe Swift really know his onions? Has he lost the plot? Has he gone to seed? Or is he simply a wannabe celebrity? From now on, I won't worry a bit if I miss Gardeners World. I think I can get proper expert advice from my fellow allomenteers who've got years of experience and are real gardeners. Ed |
Gardeners World. Allotments and Joe Swift
"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message ... I was really looking forward to the present series of Gardeners World when it was announced that they would be doing an allotment from scratch as I am in a similar position and was hoping to learn from this. But then, unaccountably, the BBC put Joe Swift in charge of this!! First off, he hires a JCB to skim off all the surface grass and weeds. Well, how practical is that for most allotmenteers? I can barely get a wheelbarrow to my plot!! Then he goes ahead and rotavates the whole place, chopping up and multiplying all the perennial weed roots. Is that good practice? Next he lays out triangular , and other odd-shaped, raised beds!! Where is the sense in that? Regular oblong or square shaped beds must make for easier sowing of crops in a straight line and for subsequent hoeing? And how do you rotate crops if your beds are all of a different size? And then it comes to planting out his onion sets!! And Joe Swift doesn't know what to do and has to phone Monty Don on the mobile for advice!! I thought Joe Swift should know how to do this? I am utterly disappointed with this whole allotment thing. I am getting no real practical advice from Joe Swift when I was expecting an expert vegetable grower to be fronting this part of the program. It seems to me that the BBC Gardeners World are just cashing in on the current 'grow your own' theme at the moment without offering any real help at all. Joe Swift is just the front guy. It's becoming like all those cookery programs whose aim is to promote the Chef without actually teaching anyone how to cook. So does Joe Swift really know his onions? Has he lost the plot? Has he gone to seed? Or is he simply a wannabe celebrity? From now on, I won't worry a bit if I miss Gardeners World. I think I can get proper expert advice from my fellow allomenteers who've got years of experience and are real gardeners. Ed For 'real gardeners' there is always Gardeners' Question Time on radio 4 -- Rowdens Reservoir Allotments Association www.rraa.moonfruit.com Feed the soil, save the planet |
Gardeners World. Allotments and Joe Swift
On Wed, 28 May 2008 16:42:20 +0100, dave wrote:
On Wed, 28 May 2008 16:04:04 +0100, Ed ex@directory wrote: I was really looking forward to the present series of Gardeners World when it was announced that they would be doing an allotment from scratch as I am in a similar position and was hoping to learn from this. But then, unaccountably, the BBC put Joe Swift in charge of this!! First off, he hires a JCB to skim off all the surface grass and weeds. Well, how practical is that for most allotmenteers? I can barely get a wheelbarrow to my plot!! ... From now on, I won't worry a bit if I miss Gardeners World. I think I can get proper expert advice from my fellow allomenteers who've got years of experience and are real gardeners. Ed I'm no gardener at all but would like to learn a bit about "real" allotments too. I've just found out though that the waiting list in my area is several years so I'm probably not going to get one anyway. In theory you can push your council to provide extra. There's a queue of 18 on my council's nearest one and only 24 plots so it'll be a long time waiting for me too. Sadly for me people from outside Oldham can apply for plots here but I can't apply for a plot in neighbouring Manchester. However I do share your sentiments on this. It is, I think, the way of so many TV programs these days: trivial superficial and all about 1 second scene changes to canned music. As an engineer I used to enjoy motoring programs - but those 3 lemons Clarkson et al know nothing about the engineerg but a lot about colours, cost, model numbers and catchy punchlines. Off topic I know. -- http://www.orderonlinepickupinstore.co.uk Ah fetch it yourself if you can't wait for delivery http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk |
Gardeners World. Allotments and Joe Swift
"Ed" wrote...((Big Snip)) I was really looking forward to the present series of Gardeners World when it was announced that they would be doing an allotment from scratch as I am in a similar position and was hoping to learn from this. But then, unaccountably, the BBC put Joe Swift in charge of this!! First off, he hires a JCB to skim off all the surface grass and weeds. Well, how practical is that for most allotmenteers? I can barely get a wheelbarrow to my plot!! Then he goes ahead and rotavates the whole place, chopping up and multiplying all the perennial weed roots. Is that good practice? Next he lays out triangular , and other odd-shaped, raised beds!! Where is the sense in that? Regular oblong or square shaped beds must make for easier sowing of crops in a straight line and for subsequent hoeing? And how do you rotate crops if your beds are all of a different size? Being an allotment gardener I wanted to see how some TV gardener coped with a new allotment too but after the first program I lost all interest. A JCB to throw away all the best soil instead of using weedkiller and waiting, and then he imports more soil from God knows where containing God knows what, then he makes stupid shaped expensive raised beds (it's an allotment for growing food!!) that will be difficult to plant and maintain. So realistic .... not in any way! What are we going to learn from it? Not much except that they have too much money. What worries me is what young inexperienced gardeners might take from it, I can see wonderful allotment soil being scraped off and dumped all over the country because of a few weeds. Now reality.... New young gardener on our site, nice chap, knows little but is so keen. His plot was 3ft high in nettles except where it was dock. Ground not used for about 20 years except for parking a few lorries so hard isn't the word, also contains bricks and some rubble. Had to put up rabbit fencing too and he found that costly so no JCB and new soil for him. -- Regards Bob Hobden ... |
Gardeners World. Allotments and Joe Swift
Bob Hobden wrote:
"Ed" wrote...((Big Snip)) I was really looking forward to the present series of Gardeners World when it was announced that they would be doing an allotment from scratch as I am in a similar position and was hoping to learn from this. But then, unaccountably, the BBC put Joe Swift in charge of this!! First off, he hires a JCB to skim off all the surface grass and weeds. Well, how practical is that for most allotmenteers? I can barely get a wheelbarrow to my plot!! Then he goes ahead and rotavates the whole place, chopping up and multiplying all the perennial weed roots. Is that good practice? Next he lays out triangular , and other odd-shaped, raised beds!! Where is the sense in that? Regular oblong or square shaped beds must make for easier sowing of crops in a straight line and for subsequent hoeing? And how do you rotate crops if your beds are all of a different size? Being an allotment gardener I wanted to see how some TV gardener coped with a new allotment too but after the first program I lost all interest. A JCB to throw away all the best soil instead of using weedkiller and waiting, and then he imports more soil from God knows where containing God knows what, then he makes stupid shaped expensive raised beds (it's an allotment for growing food!!) that will be difficult to plant and maintain. So realistic ... not in any way! What are we going to learn from it? Not much except that they have too much money. What worries me is what young inexperienced gardeners might take from it, I can see wonderful allotment soil being scraped off and dumped all over the country because of a few weeds. Now reality.... New young gardener on our site, nice chap, knows little but is so keen. His plot was 3ft high in nettles except where it was dock. Ground not used for about 20 years except for parking a few lorries so hard isn't the word, also contains bricks and some rubble. Had to put up rabbit fencing too and he found that costly so no JCB and new soil for him. Well to an extent i've some sympathy for Joe, he's never been a veg gardener, he's a garden designer, one oh so many from the last few years. They know colours, wheels and basic design stuff, but usually rely on labourers to do the actual work. He is at least trying to learn, okay so skimming the allotment wasn't the best move in the world but wait until I rely my woes in my new allotment. I think there's potential there, if he keeps working at it, and starts listening to the folks around him at the allotment. Anyway, I moved house recently, April actually, went straight off and got myself an allotment, great I thought. It was freshly ploughed which I thought was a great help. Little did I know. The allotment had been obviously unused for some years, is infested with dock, thistle, plantains, bindweed the list is endless. You think of a perennial, pernicious weed and I think it's there. Thus ploughing it was quite probably the single worst thing that could be done. So I figured i've little choice at this point, it's either months of hand digging and extracting weed roots forever, or I wait 2 weeks for leaves to show, then glyphosate the lot of them. 2 weeks later I do just that, about 5 or 6 days after that I peer over the fence to see how the poison is doing and guess what, the local allotment secretary has only gone and ploughed the whole thing again. Complete waste of £20 of poison and a few hours of spraying, but worse than that, i've now got to wait another 2 weeks for the leaves to re-appear and then start again. I can hardly plant anything now until the end of June by which time most things won't take properly. I mean it's hard enough work taking on an old allotment but this kind of "trying to be helpful" stupidity really rankles me. He didn't ask me first, he didn't even take note of the fact that most of the weeds we're getting a little yellow or distorted, just went in and ploughed it all again I couldn't believe it. Actually makes me wish i'd had it scraped. Duncan |
Gardeners World. Allotments and Joe Swift
"dr" wrote (SNIP) Anyway, I moved house recently, April actually, went straight off and got myself an allotment, great I thought. It was freshly ploughed which I thought was a great help. Little did I know. The allotment had been obviously unused for some years, is infested with dock, thistle, plantains, bindweed the list is endless. You think of a perennial, pernicious weed and I think it's there. Thus ploughing it was quite probably the single worst thing that could be done. So I figured i've little choice at this point, it's either months of hand digging and extracting weed roots forever, or I wait 2 weeks for leaves to show, then glyphosate the lot of them. 2 weeks later I do just that, about 5 or 6 days after that I peer over the fence to see how the poison is doing and guess what, the local allotment secretary has only gone and ploughed the whole thing again. Complete waste of £20 of poison and a few hours of spraying, but worse than that, i've now got to wait another 2 weeks for the leaves to re-appear and then start again. I can hardly plant anything now until the end of June by which time most things won't take properly. I mean it's hard enough work taking on an old allotment but this kind of "trying to be helpful" stupidity really rankles me. He didn't ask me first, he didn't even take note of the fact that most of the weeds we're getting a little yellow or distorted, just went in and ploughed it all again I couldn't believe it. Actually makes me wish i'd had it scraped. That Allotment Secretary must be an idiot not any sort of practical gardener. Hope you asked for a refund of rent due to the unavailability of your plot for growing this season. -- Regards Bob Hobden |
Gardeners World. Allotments and Joe Swift
"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message ... I was really looking forward to the present series of Gardeners World when it was announced that they would be doing an allotment from scratch as I am in a similar position and was hoping to learn from this. But then, unaccountably, the BBC put Joe Swift in charge of this!! First off, he hires a JCB to skim off all the surface grass and weeds. Well, how practical is that for most allotmenteers? I can barely get a wheelbarrow to my plot!! Then he goes ahead and rotavates the whole place, chopping up and multiplying all the perennial weed roots. Is that good practice? Next he lays out triangular , and other odd-shaped, raised beds!! Where is the sense in that? Regular oblong or square shaped beds must make for easier sowing of crops in a straight line and for subsequent hoeing? And how do you rotate crops if your beds are all of a different size? And then it comes to planting out his onion sets!! And Joe Swift doesn't know what to do and has to phone Monty Don on the mobile for advice!! I thought Joe Swift should know how to do this? I am utterly disappointed with this whole allotment thing. I am getting no real practical advice from Joe Swift when I was expecting an expert vegetable grower to be fronting this part of the program. It seems to me that the BBC Gardeners World are just cashing in on the current 'grow your own' theme at the moment without offering any real help at all. Joe Swift is just the front guy. It's becoming like all those cookery programs whose aim is to promote the Chef without actually teaching anyone how to cook. So does Joe Swift really know his onions? Has he lost the plot? Has he gone to seed? Or is he simply a wannabe celebrity? From now on, I won't worry a bit if I miss Gardeners World. I think I can get proper expert advice from my fellow allomenteers who've got years of experience and are real gardeners. Ed I am enjoying Joe`s progress and applaude him for doing something different in his design of the plot. Why does a plot have to be in straight rows and blocks ?as long as the plot is accessible who cares what shape it is .I am sure his plot will look good and be productive. I like the fact he is learning and he is not hiding the fact, most programs only show the good side. If i had a choice of dig his plot over by hand or have it scraped by the council included in the plot price ,i know which one i would choose ,the jcb everytime . I would choose to be organic so the chemicals would be a no go. If you barely get a wheel barrow into your plot then maybe you have learnt something from Joe ? go and take a good look at site`s first to see which one is right for you like Joe did ! Keith |
Gardeners World. Allotments and Joe Swift
"keith kent" wrote And I am enjoying Joe`s progress and applaude him for doing something different in his design of the plot. OK, fine, but he's wasted so much productive land between the beds and that land has cost him money. A new gardener on our site made small beds with paths around but I notice a lot of the paths have gone this year and I bet he ends up with one central path like me (plots are about 40ft wide with rabbit fencing around). Why does a plot have to be in straight rows and blocks ?as long as the plot is accessible who cares what shape it is .I am sure his plot will look good and be productive. Because straight rows are much easier to hoe, weed, water, look for pests and diseases, rotate your crops ...... they are also the most productive way to use a plot. My biggest fear is new allotment gardeners may well take a lead from him, the blind leading the blind. and I like the fact he is learning and he is not hiding the fact, most programs only show the good side. Ok if it's made plain he has made a mistake when he makes one. If i had a choice of dig his plot over by hand or have it scraped by the council included in the plot price ,i know which one i would choose ,the jcb everytime . You obviously don't realise the top soil is the best most valuable bit and it still has to be dug afterwards anyway. I dug my latest allotment totally by hand when we started it, it's how I know what types of soil I have around the plot, it's how I flattened it, it's how I found the buried brick path, the bottles, the plastic bags....... it's how I cleaned up the soil. I would choose to be organic so the chemicals would be a no go. So it's OK for a couple of tons of JCB to trundle over your plot and remove the best bit of your soil. The most important part of being organic is looking after the soil, it's health and structure. Anyway, you would probably still be left with quite a variety of perennial weeds to deal with, some of which you cannot deal with permanently without chemicals, bindweed comes to mind. If you barely get a wheel barrow into your plot then maybe you have learnt something from Joe ? go and take a good look at site`s first to see which one is right for you like Joe did ! You think you have a choice in most areas of the country these days? We have one plot left on our site and its triangular and totally overhung with tall trees on two sides (the sunny sides) and you would have to get across another plot to get to it. Suitable for fern growers only IMO. Other local sites have waiting lists. -- Regards Bob Hobden |
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