I was really looking forward to the present series of Gardeners World
when it was announced that they would be doing an allotment from scratch
as I am in a similar position and was hoping to learn from this.

But then, unaccountably, the BBC put Joe Swift in charge of this!!

First off, he hires a JCB to skim off all the surface grass and weeds.
Well, how practical is that for most allotmenteers? I can barely get a
wheelbarrow to my plot!!

Then he goes ahead and rotavates the whole place, chopping up and
multiplying all the perennial weed roots. Is that good practice?

Next he lays out triangular , and other odd-shaped, raised beds!! Where
is the sense in that? Regular oblong or square shaped beds must make for
easier sowing of crops in a straight line and for subsequent hoeing?
And how do you rotate crops if your beds are all of a different size?

And then it comes to planting out his onion sets!! And Joe Swift doesn't
know what to do and has to phone Monty Don on the mobile for advice!! I
thought Joe Swift should know how to do this?

I am utterly disappointed with this whole allotment thing. I am getting
no real practical advice from Joe Swift when I was expecting an expert
vegetable grower to be fronting this part of the program.

It seems to me that the BBC Gardeners World are just cashing in on the
current 'grow your own' theme at the moment without offering any real
help at all. Joe Swift is just the front guy. It's becoming like all
those cookery programs whose aim is to promote the Chef without actually
teaching anyone how to cook.

So does Joe Swift really know his onions? Has he lost the plot? Has he
gone to seed? Or is he simply a wannabe celebrity?

From now on, I won't worry a bit if I miss Gardeners World.

I think I can get proper expert advice from my fellow allomenteers
who've got years of experience and are real gardeners.

Ed

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
...
I was really looking forward to the present series of Gardeners World when
it was announced that they would be doing an allotment from scratch as I am
in a similar position and was hoping to learn from this.

But then, unaccountably, the BBC put Joe Swift in charge of this!!

First off, he hires a JCB to skim off all the surface grass and weeds.
Well, how practical is that for most allotmenteers? I can barely get a
wheelbarrow to my plot!!

Then he goes ahead and rotavates the whole place, chopping up and
multiplying all the perennial weed roots. Is that good practice?

Next he lays out triangular , and other odd-shaped, raised beds!! Where
is the sense in that? Regular oblong or square shaped beds must make for
easier sowing of crops in a straight line and for subsequent hoeing? And
how do you rotate crops if your beds are all of a different size?

And then it comes to planting out his onion sets!! And Joe Swift doesn't
know what to do and has to phone Monty Don on the mobile for advice!! I
thought Joe Swift should know how to do this?

I am utterly disappointed with this whole allotment thing. I am getting
no real practical advice from Joe Swift when I was expecting an expert
vegetable grower to be fronting this part of the program.

It seems to me that the BBC Gardeners World are just cashing in on the
current 'grow your own' theme at the moment without offering any real help
at all. Joe Swift is just the front guy. It's becoming like all those
cookery programs whose aim is to promote the Chef without actually
teaching anyone how to cook.

So does Joe Swift really know his onions? Has he lost the plot? Has he
gone to seed? Or is he simply a wannabe celebrity?

From now on, I won't worry a bit if I miss Gardeners World.

I think I can get proper expert advice from my fellow allomenteers who've
got years of experience and are real gardeners.

Ed

For 'real gardeners' there is always Gardeners' Question Time on radio 4


--
Rowdens Reservoir Allotments Association
www.rraa.moonfruit.com
Feed the soil, save the planet

On Wed, 28 May 2008 16:42:20 +0100, dave wrote:

On Wed, 28 May 2008 16:04:04 +0100, Ed ex@directory wrote:

I was really looking forward to the present series of Gardeners World
when it was announced that they would be doing an allotment from scratch
as I am in a similar position and was hoping to learn from this.

But then, unaccountably, the BBC put Joe Swift in charge of this!!

First off, he hires a JCB to skim off all the surface grass and weeds.
Well, how practical is that for most allotmenteers? I can barely get a
wheelbarrow to my plot!!
...
From now on, I won't worry a bit if I miss Gardeners World.

I think I can get proper expert advice from my fellow allomenteers
who've got years of experience and are real gardeners.

Ed



I'm no gardener at all but would like to learn a bit about "real"
allotments too. I've just found out though that the waiting list in my
area is several years so I'm probably not going to get one anyway.

In theory you can push your council to provide extra.
There's a queue of 18 on my council's nearest one and only 24 plots so
it'll be a long time waiting for me too. Sadly for me people from
outside Oldham can apply for plots here but I can't apply for a plot
in neighbouring Manchester.

However I do share your sentiments on this. It is, I think, the way of
so many TV programs these days: trivial superficial and all about 1
second scene changes to canned music. As an engineer I used to enjoy
motoring programs - but those 3 lemons Clarkson et al know nothing
about the engineerg but a lot about colours, cost, model numbers and
catchy punchlines. Off topic I know.
--
http://www.orderonlinepickupinstore.co.uk
Ah fetch it yourself if you can't wait for delivery
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

"Ed" wrote...((Big Snip))
I was really looking forward to the present series of Gardeners World when
it was announced that they would be doing an allotment from scratch as I am
in a similar position and was hoping to learn from this.

But then, unaccountably, the BBC put Joe Swift in charge of this!!

First off, he hires a JCB to skim off all the surface grass and weeds.
Well, how practical is that for most allotmenteers? I can barely get a
wheelbarrow to my plot!!

Then he goes ahead and rotavates the whole place, chopping up and
multiplying all the perennial weed roots. Is that good practice?

Next he lays out triangular , and other odd-shaped, raised beds!! Where
is the sense in that? Regular oblong or square shaped beds must make for
easier sowing of crops in a straight line and for subsequent hoeing? And
how do you rotate crops if your beds are all of a different size?


Being an allotment gardener I wanted to see how some TV gardener coped with
a new allotment too but after the first program I lost all interest. A JCB
to throw away all the best soil instead of using weedkiller and waiting, and
then he imports more soil from God knows where containing God knows what,
then he makes stupid shaped expensive raised beds (it's an allotment for
growing food!!) that will be difficult to plant and maintain. So realistic
.... not in any way!
What are we going to learn from it? Not much except that they have too much
money. What worries me is what young inexperienced gardeners might take from
it, I can see wonderful allotment soil being scraped off and dumped all over
the country because of a few weeds.

Now reality.... New young gardener on our site, nice chap, knows little but
is so keen. His plot was 3ft high in nettles except where it was dock.
Ground not used for about 20 years except for parking a few lorries so hard
isn't the word, also contains bricks and some rubble. Had to put up rabbit
fencing too and he found that costly so no JCB and new soil for him.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden




...

Bob Hobden wrote:


"Ed" wrote...((Big Snip))
I was really looking forward to the present series of Gardeners World when
it was announced that they would be doing an allotment from scratch as I
am in a similar position and was hoping to learn from this.

But then, unaccountably, the BBC put Joe Swift in charge of this!!

First off, he hires a JCB to skim off all the surface grass and weeds.
Well, how practical is that for most allotmenteers? I can barely get a
wheelbarrow to my plot!!

Then he goes ahead and rotavates the whole place, chopping up and
multiplying all the perennial weed roots. Is that good practice?

Next he lays out triangular , and other odd-shaped, raised beds!! Where
is the sense in that? Regular oblong or square shaped beds must make for
easier sowing of crops in a straight line and for subsequent hoeing? And
how do you rotate crops if your beds are all of a different size?


Being an allotment gardener I wanted to see how some TV gardener coped
with a new allotment too but after the first program I lost all interest.
A JCB to throw away all the best soil instead of using weedkiller and
waiting, and then he imports more soil from God knows where containing God
knows what, then he makes stupid shaped expensive raised beds (it's an
allotment for growing food!!) that will be difficult to plant and
maintain. So realistic ... not in any way!
What are we going to learn from it? Not much except that they have too
much money. What worries me is what young inexperienced gardeners might
take from it, I can see wonderful allotment soil being scraped off and
dumped all over the country because of a few weeds.

Now reality.... New young gardener on our site, nice chap, knows little
but is so keen. His plot was 3ft high in nettles except where it was dock.
Ground not used for about 20 years except for parking a few lorries so
hard isn't the word, also contains bricks and some rubble. Had to put up
rabbit fencing too and he found that costly so no JCB and new soil for
him.


Well to an extent i've some sympathy for Joe, he's never been a veg
gardener, he's a garden designer, one oh so many from the last few years.
They know colours, wheels and basic design stuff, but usually rely on
labourers to do the actual work.

He is at least trying to learn, okay so skimming the allotment wasn't the
best move in the world but wait until I rely my woes in my new allotment.
I think there's potential there, if he keeps working at it, and starts
listening to the folks around him at the allotment.

Anyway, I moved house recently, April actually, went straight off and got
myself an allotment, great I thought. It was freshly ploughed which I
thought was a great help. Little did I know.

The allotment had been obviously unused for some years, is infested with
dock, thistle, plantains, bindweed the list is endless. You think of a
perennial, pernicious weed and I think it's there. Thus ploughing it was
quite probably the single worst thing that could be done.

So I figured i've little choice at this point, it's either months of hand
digging and extracting weed roots forever, or I wait 2 weeks for leaves to
show, then glyphosate the lot of them. 2 weeks later I do just that, about
5 or 6 days after that I peer over the fence to see how the poison is doing
and guess what, the local allotment secretary has only gone and ploughed
the whole thing again. Complete waste of £20 of poison and a few hours of
spraying, but worse than that, i've now got to wait another 2 weeks for the
leaves to re-appear and then start again. I can hardly plant anything now
until the end of June by which time most things won't take properly.

I mean it's hard enough work taking on an old allotment but this kind
of "trying to be helpful" stupidity really rankles me. He didn't ask me
first, he didn't even take note of the fact that most of the weeds we're
getting a little yellow or distorted, just went in and ploughed it all
again I couldn't believe it. Actually makes me wish i'd had it scraped.

Duncan

"dr" wrote (SNIP)

Anyway, I moved house recently, April actually, went straight off and got
myself an allotment, great I thought. It was freshly ploughed which I
thought was a great help. Little did I know.

The allotment had been obviously unused for some years, is infested with
dock, thistle, plantains, bindweed the list is endless. You think of a
perennial, pernicious weed and I think it's there. Thus ploughing it was
quite probably the single worst thing that could be done.

So I figured i've little choice at this point, it's either months of hand
digging and extracting weed roots forever, or I wait 2 weeks for leaves to
show, then glyphosate the lot of them. 2 weeks later I do just that,
about
5 or 6 days after that I peer over the fence to see how the poison is
doing
and guess what, the local allotment secretary has only gone and ploughed
the whole thing again. Complete waste of £20 of poison and a few hours of
spraying, but worse than that, i've now got to wait another 2 weeks for
the
leaves to re-appear and then start again. I can hardly plant anything now
until the end of June by which time most things won't take properly.

I mean it's hard enough work taking on an old allotment but this kind
of "trying to be helpful" stupidity really rankles me. He didn't ask me
first, he didn't even take note of the fact that most of the weeds we're
getting a little yellow or distorted, just went in and ploughed it all
again I couldn't believe it. Actually makes me wish i'd had it scraped.

That Allotment Secretary must be an idiot not any sort of practical
gardener. Hope you asked for a refund of rent due to the unavailability of
your plot for growing this season.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
...
I was really looking forward to the present series of Gardeners World when
it was announced that they would be doing an allotment from scratch as I am
in a similar position and was hoping to learn from this.

But then, unaccountably, the BBC put Joe Swift in charge of this!!

First off, he hires a JCB to skim off all the surface grass and weeds.
Well, how practical is that for most allotmenteers? I can barely get a
wheelbarrow to my plot!!

Then he goes ahead and rotavates the whole place, chopping up and
multiplying all the perennial weed roots. Is that good practice?

Next he lays out triangular , and other odd-shaped, raised beds!! Where
is the sense in that? Regular oblong or square shaped beds must make for
easier sowing of crops in a straight line and for subsequent hoeing? And
how do you rotate crops if your beds are all of a different size?

And then it comes to planting out his onion sets!! And Joe Swift doesn't
know what to do and has to phone Monty Don on the mobile for advice!! I
thought Joe Swift should know how to do this?

I am utterly disappointed with this whole allotment thing. I am getting
no real practical advice from Joe Swift when I was expecting an expert
vegetable grower to be fronting this part of the program.

It seems to me that the BBC Gardeners World are just cashing in on the
current 'grow your own' theme at the moment without offering any real help
at all. Joe Swift is just the front guy. It's becoming like all those
cookery programs whose aim is to promote the Chef without actually
teaching anyone how to cook.

So does Joe Swift really know his onions? Has he lost the plot? Has he
gone to seed? Or is he simply a wannabe celebrity?

From now on, I won't worry a bit if I miss Gardeners World.

I think I can get proper expert advice from my fellow allomenteers who've
got years of experience and are real gardeners.

Ed


I am enjoying Joe`s progress and applaude him for doing something different
in his design of the plot.
Why does a plot have to be in straight rows and blocks ?as long as the plot
is accessible who cares what shape it is .I am sure his plot will look good
and be productive.
I like the fact he is learning and he is not hiding the fact, most programs
only show the good side.
If i had a choice of dig his plot over by hand or have it scraped by the
council included in the plot price ,i know which one i would choose ,the jcb
everytime .
I would choose to be organic so the chemicals would be a no go.

If you barely get a wheel barrow into your plot then maybe you have learnt
something from Joe ? go and take a good look at site`s first to see which
one is right for you like Joe did !

Keith

"keith kent" wrote And

I am enjoying Joe`s progress and applaude him for doing something
different in his design of the plot.

OK, fine, but he's wasted so much productive land between the beds and that
land has cost him money.

A new gardener on our site made small beds with paths around but I notice a
lot of the paths have gone this year and I bet he ends up with one central
path like me (plots are about 40ft wide with rabbit fencing around).

Why does a plot have to be in straight rows and blocks ?as long as the
plot is accessible who cares what shape it is .I am sure his plot will
look good and be productive.

Because straight rows are much easier to hoe, weed, water, look for pests
and diseases, rotate your crops ...... they are also the most productive way
to use a plot. My biggest fear is new allotment gardeners may well take a
lead from him, the blind leading the blind.

and
I like the fact he is learning and he is not hiding the fact, most
programs only show the good side.

Ok if it's made plain he has made a mistake when he makes one.

If i had a choice of dig his plot over by hand or have it scraped by the
council included in the plot price ,i know which one i would choose ,the
jcb everytime .

You obviously don't realise the top soil is the best most valuable bit and
it still has to be dug afterwards anyway. I dug my latest allotment totally
by hand when we started it, it's how I know what types of soil I have around
the plot, it's how I flattened it, it's how I found the buried brick path,
the bottles, the plastic bags....... it's how I cleaned up the soil.

I would choose to be organic so the chemicals would be a no go.

So it's OK for a couple of tons of JCB to trundle over your plot and remove
the best bit of your soil. The most important part of being organic is
looking after the soil, it's health and structure. Anyway, you would
probably still be left with quite a variety of perennial weeds to deal with,
some of which you cannot deal with permanently without chemicals, bindweed
comes to mind.


If you barely get a wheel barrow into your plot then maybe you have learnt
something from Joe ? go and take a good look at site`s first to see which
one is right for you like Joe did !


You think you have a choice in most areas of the country these days? We have
one plot left on our site and its triangular and totally overhung with tall
trees on two sides (the sunny sides) and you would have to get across
another plot to get to it. Suitable for fern growers only IMO. Other local
sites have waiting lists.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden