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phases of the moon
Does anybody here garden by biodynamics or the phases of the moon, I'm
thinking of giving it a try. -- Mark Hamer www.another-way.co.uk I don't want to arrive at my grave in an attractive and well preserved body, hopefully I will be skidding in sideways, Gin and Tonic in one hand -- Cigar in the other screaming YAHAAAY! |
phases of the moon
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:15:51 +0100, Hamer Family wrote:
Does anybody here garden by biodynamics or the phases of the moon, I'm thinking of giving it a try. Before doing so read Ben Goldacre's 'Bad Science': then use the principles therein to evaluate biodynamics. I'm pretty sure it'll turn out to be the '******** du jour' of gardening. If there are any peer- reviewed blinded trials then I'll apologize in advance. |
phases of the moon
In message , Hamer Family
writes Does anybody here garden by biodynamics or the phases of the moon, I'm thinking of giving it a try. If you, for example, sow plants by the phase of the moon, that means that there's a 4 week variation in the time of year that you sow the plants. While the optimal time for sowing varies from year to year, for most crops I doubt that the variation at one location amounts to this much. In any one year the optimal time for sowing varies according to location (it's not the same in Penzance as in Peterhead). So apart from the lack of positive reasons to hold that the phase of the moon is a predominant determinant of the optimal time for sowing, there are negative reasons leading us to doubt the efficacy of the practice. -- Stewart Robert Hinsley |
phases of the moon
Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and
critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it. -- Mark Hamer www.another-way.co.uk |
phases of the moon
In message , Hamer Family
writes Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it. While understanding that you wish local UK input - which will probably be forthcoming - I would suggest that you may consider asking any gardening (especially vegetable gardening) friends you may have in, for example, Italy, France or Spain. I have never actually tried to harness the "powers" of the lunar cycle so much followed by many friends I have in the countries I mention. Certain of these would no more dream of planting out of this cycle than fly to the hub of their plan :-)) I do hope you get helpful responses from others as, if I can get myself organised and get my head around the principles, I would be very happy to test the theory next year in part of my veg beds. Thank you for raising an interesting point .... it's probably been discussed before but not that I can recall, although I have been lurking only for a few years. -- Gopher .... I know my place! Deepest Dorset |
phases of the moon
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 19:56:08 +0100, Hamer Family wrote:
Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it. And if you find any I'm sure they'll all tell how well it works. See Goldacre's chapter on the placebo effect and the Hawthorne effect. |
phases of the moon
On 2009-07-27 19:56:08 +0100, "Hamer Family" said:
Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it. We have no personal experience of it but some years ago, in Provence, visited and bought wine from Chateau Romanin which was then working to the principles you're interested in. I don't know if they do know but it might be worth you're taking a look. Certainly, I would never scoff at such things personally. I think there's a lot we're too complacent about when scoff comes to shove. ;-) -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.com Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics. South Devon |
phases of the moon
In message , Hamer Family
writes Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it. The problem with anecdotal responses is that you don't know whether their results are obtained because of their methods, or in spite of their methods, or if their methods are irrelevant to the results. -- Stewart Robert Hinsley |
phases of the moon
Is there anybody willing to raise their hands and say 'I do it'?
I am happy to receive emails off list as I know this group can be aggressive enough to stifle debate and mitigate against open communication. In the interest of clarity I have a research background and I am well aware of the failings of anecdotal responses and of the Placebo effect and have experience of conducting double blind trials. If you would rather contact me off list here's my address You can email me at: remove NOSPAM to make the address work -- Mark Hamer www.another-way.co.uk I don't want to arrive at my grave in an attractive and well preserved body, hopefully I will be skidding in sideways, Gin and Tonic in one hand -- Cigar in the other screaming YAHAAAY! |
phases of the moon
On Jul 27, 11:19*pm, Sacha wrote:
On 2009-07-27 19:56:08 +0100, "Hamer Family" said: Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it. We have no personal experience of it but some years ago, in Provence, visited and bought wine from Chateau Romanin which was then working to the principles you're interested in. * I don't know if they do know but it might be worth you're taking a look. *Certainly, I would never scoff at such things personally. *I think there's a lot we're too complacent about when scoff comes to shove. *;-) -- Sachawww.hillhousenursery.com Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics. South Devon I am very used to my old neighbour Marie-Louise, the widow of the farmer next door, checking the calendar to check on the phases of the moon. Her son was there one time when I asked a question about something agricultural and he got up and checked the calendar; yes they really do adhere to it. Judith |
phases of the moon
On Jul 28, 10:37*am, Martin wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 02:32:13 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France wrote: On Jul 27, 11:19*pm, Sacha wrote: On 2009-07-27 19:56:08 +0100, "Hamer Family" said: Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it. We have no personal experience of it but some years ago, in Provence, visited and bought wine from Chateau Romanin which was then working to the principles you're interested in. * I don't know if they do know but it might be worth you're taking a look. *Certainly, I would never scoff at such things personally. *I think there's a lot we're too complacent about when scoff comes to shove. *;-) -- Sachawww.hillhousenursery.com Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics. South Devon I am very used to my old neighbour Marie-Louise, the widow of the farmer next door, checking the calendar to check on the phases of the moon. *Her son was there one time when I asked a question about something agricultural and he got up and checked the calendar; yes they really do adhere to it. Do they wear necklaces of garlic and bathe in the pool of Our Lady of Lost Secateurs? -- Martin Oh you!!!!! Oddly enough, they can't swim!!! Judith |
phases of the moon
Sacha wrote:
On 2009-07-27 19:56:08 +0100, "Hamer Family" said: Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it. We have no personal experience of it but some years ago, in Provence, visited and bought wine from Chateau Romanin which was then working to the principles you're interested in. I don't know if they do know but it might be worth you're taking a look. Certainly, I would never scoff at such things personally. I think there's a lot we're too complacent about when scoff comes to shove. ;-) FWIW my sister used to practice biodynamic farming in south Wales. I was educated K through 9 at Steiner schools, and as a result tend to take the wilder aspects of anthroposophy (or biodynamics) with at best several grains of salt. (Sort of like Dave Allen at Catholic school.) In particular it is hard to imagine how burying various substances in the horn of a bullock can have much of a quantitative effect on the microbial (or other) balance of the garden as a whole. Planting with the phases of the moon is another issue, any mushroom hunter can tell you that fungal -- and so presumably mycorrhizael -- growth is moon related. Still, the issue of wine that Sacha raises is a tricky one. In fact, some of the best vineyards in France practice biodynamic farming. In Burgundy: Dom. Romanee Conti, Dujac, Leflaive, Leroy to name just a few. In the Loire, Huet, Joly, Breton, etc. In Alsace Weinbach-Faller, Zind Humbrecht, etc. In the Rhone, M. Chapoutier and others (Chave I think in Cornas). In Provence, Ste Anne and Trevallon. The list goes on, a partial list can be found at: http://www.forkandbottle.com/wine/bi..._producers.htm In short, some of the very best wine in the world is being made as the end result of biodynamic methods. Is it because biodynamics enforces such stringent practices that the end result is great, or because of the practices themselves? There's the rub; as a farmer an important question is: does it matter why? For many viticulteurs, who are skeptical of Steinerite hooey, the answer is "no." I've had more than a handful of conversations recently, as with the Baudry family in Chinon, where wine makers are considering/exploring biodynamics "because it seems to work." (For whichever reason.) Now these are people who are motivated by quality and have been for generations, also educated in secular French schools with a low regard for non-scientific thought. (My last visit we did a fascinating tasting of the same vintage, pre-blend, from perhaps 30 barrels of different ages and origins). They are conservative and traditionally minded. If they are considering such a switch, it's because there is a growing consensus in the professional community that the methods produce a desirable end result. HTH -E |
phases of the moon
On 2009-07-28 11:18:33 +0100, Martin said:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 02:57:23 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France wrote: On Jul 28, 10:37*am, Martin wrote: On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 02:32:13 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France wrote: On Jul 27, 11:19*pm, Sacha wrote: On 2009-07-27 19:56:08 +0100, "Hamer Family" said: Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it. We have no personal experience of it but some years ago, in Provence, visited and bought wine from Chateau Romanin which was then working to the principles you're interested in. * I don't know if they do know but it might be worth you're taking a look. *Certainly, I would never scoff at such things personally. *I think there's a lot we're too complacent about when scoff comes to shove. *;-) -- Sachawww.hillhousenursery.com Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics. South Devon I am very used to my old neighbour Marie-Louise, the widow of the farmer next door, checking the calendar to check on the phases of the moon. *Her son was there one time when I asked a question about something agricultural and he got up and checked the calendar; yes they really do adhere to it. Do they wear necklaces of garlic and bathe in the pool of Our Lady of Lost Secateurs? -- Martin Oh you!!!!! Oddly enough, they can't swim!!! but if they believed in miracles they could and would walk on the water. Eh? That's a rather broad interpretation! -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.com Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics. South Devon |
phases of the moon
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:15:51 +0100, "Hamer Family"
wrote: Does anybody here garden by biodynamics or the phases of the moon, I'm thinking of giving it a try. It's along the same lines - I can assure you that potatoes should only be planted on Good Friday ;-) |
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