Does anybody here garden by biodynamics or the phases of the moon, I'm
thinking of giving it a try.

--
Mark Hamer
www.another-way.co.uk

I don't want to arrive at my grave in an attractive and well preserved body,
hopefully I will be skidding in
sideways, Gin and Tonic in one hand -- Cigar in the other screaming YAHAAAY!

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:15:51 +0100, Hamer Family wrote:

Does anybody here garden by biodynamics or the phases of the moon, I'm
thinking of giving it a try.

Before doing so read Ben Goldacre's 'Bad Science': then use the
principles therein to evaluate biodynamics. I'm pretty sure it'll turn
out to be the '******** du jour' of gardening. If there are any peer-
reviewed blinded trials then I'll apologize in advance.

In message , Hamer Family
writes
Does anybody here garden by biodynamics or the phases of the moon, I'm
thinking of giving it a try.

If you, for example, sow plants by the phase of the moon, that means
that there's a 4 week variation in the time of year that you sow the
plants. While the optimal time for sowing varies from year to year, for
most crops I doubt that the variation at one location amounts to this
much. In any one year the optimal time for sowing varies according to
location (it's not the same in Penzance as in Peterhead). So apart from
the lack of positive reasons to hold that the phase of the moon is a
predominant determinant of the optimal time for sowing, there are
negative reasons leading us to doubt the efficacy of the practice.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and
critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it.
--
Mark Hamer
www.another-way.co.uk

In message , Hamer Family
writes
Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and
critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it.

While understanding that you wish local UK input - which will probably
be forthcoming - I would suggest that you may consider asking any
gardening (especially vegetable gardening) friends you may have in, for
example, Italy, France or Spain. I have never actually tried to harness
the "powers" of the lunar cycle so much followed by many friends I have
in the countries I mention. Certain of these would no more dream of
planting out of this cycle than fly to the hub of their plan :-))

I do hope you get helpful responses from others as, if I can get myself
organised and get my head around the principles, I would be very happy
to test the theory next year in part of my veg beds.

Thank you for raising an interesting point .... it's probably been
discussed before but not that I can recall, although I have been lurking
only for a few years.
--
Gopher .... I know my place!
Deepest Dorset

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 19:56:08 +0100, Hamer Family wrote:

Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and
critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it.

And if you find any I'm sure they'll all tell how well it works. See
Goldacre's chapter on the placebo effect and the Hawthorne effect.

On 2009-07-27 19:56:08 +0100, "Hamer Family" said:

Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and
critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it.

We have no personal experience of it but some years ago, in Provence,
visited and bought wine from Chateau Romanin which was then working to
the principles you're interested in. I don't know if they do know but
it might be worth you're taking a look. Certainly, I would never scoff
at such things personally. I think there's a lot we're too complacent
about when scoff comes to shove. ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics.
South Devon

In message , Hamer Family
writes
Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and
critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it.

The problem with anecdotal responses is that you don't know whether
their results are obtained because of their methods, or in spite of
their methods, or if their methods are irrelevant to the results.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Is there anybody willing to raise their hands and say 'I do it'?

I am happy to receive emails off list as I know this group can be aggressive
enough to stifle debate and mitigate against open communication.

In the interest of clarity I have a research background and I am well aware
of the failings of anecdotal responses and of the Placebo effect and have
experience of conducting double blind trials.

If you would rather contact me off list here's my address
You can email me at:

remove NOSPAM to make the address work

--
Mark Hamer
www.another-way.co.uk

I don't want to arrive at my grave in an attractive and well preserved body,
hopefully I will be skidding in
sideways, Gin and Tonic in one hand -- Cigar in the other screaming YAHAAAY!

On Jul 27, 11:19*pm, Sacha wrote:
On 2009-07-27 19:56:08 +0100, "Hamer Family" said:

Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and
critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it.

We have no personal experience of it but some years ago, in Provence,
visited and bought wine from Chateau Romanin which was then working to
the principles you're interested in. * I don't know if they do know but
it might be worth you're taking a look. *Certainly, I would never scoff
at such things personally. *I think there's a lot we're too complacent
about when scoff comes to shove. *;-)
--
Sachawww.hillhousenursery.com
Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics.
South Devon

I am very used to my old neighbour Marie-Louise, the widow of the
farmer next door, checking the calendar to check on the phases of the
moon. Her son was there one time when I asked a question about
something agricultural and he got up and checked the calendar; yes
they really do adhere to it.

Judith

On Jul 28, 10:37*am, Martin wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 02:32:13 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France







wrote:
On Jul 27, 11:19*pm, Sacha wrote:
On 2009-07-27 19:56:08 +0100, "Hamer Family" said:

Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and
critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it.

We have no personal experience of it but some years ago, in Provence,
visited and bought wine from Chateau Romanin which was then working to
the principles you're interested in. * I don't know if they do know but
it might be worth you're taking a look. *Certainly, I would never scoff
at such things personally. *I think there's a lot we're too complacent
about when scoff comes to shove. *;-)
--
Sachawww.hillhousenursery.com
Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics.
South Devon

I am very used to my old neighbour Marie-Louise, the widow of the
farmer next door, checking the calendar to check on the phases of the
moon. *Her son was there one time when I asked a question about
something agricultural and he got up and checked the calendar; yes
they really do adhere to it.

Do they wear necklaces of garlic and bathe in the pool of Our Lady of Lost
Secateurs?
--

Martin

Oh you!!!!! Oddly enough, they can't swim!!!

Judith

Sacha wrote:
On 2009-07-27 19:56:08 +0100, "Hamer Family"
said:

Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and
critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it.

We have no personal experience of it but some years ago, in Provence,
visited and bought wine from Chateau Romanin which was then working to
the principles you're interested in. I don't know if they do know but
it might be worth you're taking a look. Certainly, I would never scoff
at such things personally. I think there's a lot we're too complacent
about when scoff comes to shove. ;-)

FWIW my sister used to practice biodynamic farming in south Wales.

I was educated K through 9 at Steiner schools, and as a result tend to
take the wilder aspects of anthroposophy (or biodynamics) with at best
several grains of salt. (Sort of like Dave Allen at Catholic school.)
In particular it is hard to imagine how burying various substances in
the horn of a bullock can have much of a quantitative effect on the
microbial (or other) balance of the garden as a whole. Planting with
the phases of the moon is another issue, any mushroom hunter can tell
you that fungal -- and so presumably mycorrhizael -- growth is moon
related.

Still, the issue of wine that Sacha raises is a tricky one.

In fact, some of the best vineyards in France practice biodynamic
farming. In Burgundy: Dom. Romanee Conti, Dujac, Leflaive, Leroy to
name just a few. In the Loire, Huet, Joly, Breton, etc. In Alsace
Weinbach-Faller, Zind Humbrecht, etc. In the Rhone, M. Chapoutier and
others (Chave I think in Cornas). In Provence, Ste Anne and Trevallon.

The list goes on, a partial list can be found at:

http://www.forkandbottle.com/wine/bi..._producers.htm

In short, some of the very best wine in the world is being made
as the end result of biodynamic methods. Is it because biodynamics
enforces such stringent practices that the end result is great, or
because of the practices themselves? There's the rub; as a farmer
an important question is: does it matter why? For many viticulteurs,
who are skeptical of Steinerite hooey, the answer is "no." I've
had more than a handful of conversations recently, as with the Baudry
family in Chinon, where wine makers are considering/exploring
biodynamics "because it seems to work." (For whichever reason.)
Now these are people who are motivated by quality and have been for
generations, also educated in secular French schools with a low
regard for non-scientific thought. (My last visit we did a fascinating
tasting of the same vintage, pre-blend, from perhaps 30 barrels of
different ages and origins). They are conservative and traditionally
minded. If they are considering such a switch, it's because there
is a growing consensus in the professional community that the methods
produce a desirable end result.

HTH

-E

Hamer Family wrote:
Is there anybody willing to raise their hands and say 'I do it'?

I am happy to receive emails off list as I know this group can be aggressive
enough to stifle debate and mitigate against open communication.

In the interest of clarity I have a research background and I am well aware
of the failings of anecdotal responses and of the Placebo effect and have
experience of conducting double blind trials.

OK. Then you will quickly realise that planting things when the soil is
just right for them to germinate and grow quickly is far more important
than the position of the moon in the sky. The only thing where there
might be an advantage is if you dig the soil by the light of the moon.

The low levels of moonlight prevent buried weed seeds seeing enough
transient light to break dormancy - although you may get visits from the
police to see why you are digging in the dark.

Rigid adherence to biodynamics is pretty silly. Just look how wildy the
movable feast of Easter flops around governed by the lunar cycle.

If you would rather contact me off list here's my address
You can email me at:

I expect you will find a few adherents and they may even believe it works.

Regards,
Martin Brown

On 2009-07-28 11:18:33 +0100, Martin said:

On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 02:57:23 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France
wrote:

On Jul 28, 10:37*am, Martin wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 02:32:13 -0700 (PDT), Judith in France







wrote:
On Jul 27, 11:19*pm, Sacha wrote:
On 2009-07-27 19:56:08 +0100, "Hamer Family" said:

Thanks for those replies, yes I am aware of many of the issues and
critiques. However I am looking for people who actually do it.

We have no personal experience of it but some years ago, in Provence,
visited and bought wine from Chateau Romanin which was then working to
the principles you're interested in. * I don't know if they do know but
it might be worth you're taking a look. *Certainly, I would never scoff
at such things personally. *I think there's a lot we're too complacent
about when scoff comes to shove. *;-)
--
Sachawww.hillhousenursery.com
Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics.
South Devon

I am very used to my old neighbour Marie-Louise, the widow of the
farmer next door, checking the calendar to check on the phases of the
moon. *Her son was there one time when I asked a question about
something agricultural and he got up and checked the calendar; yes
they really do adhere to it.

Do they wear necklaces of garlic and bathe in the pool of Our Lady of Lost
Secateurs?
--

Martin

Oh you!!!!! Oddly enough, they can't swim!!!

but if they believed in miracles they could and would walk on the water.

Eh? That's a rather broad interpretation!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics.
South Devon

On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:15:51 +0100, "Hamer Family"
wrote:

Does anybody here garden by biodynamics or the phases of the moon, I'm
thinking of giving it a try.


It's along the same lines - I can assure you that potatoes should only
be planted on Good Friday ;-)