Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
Management is concerned that the goldfish in the pond are, as last year,
going to die if the pond is frozen over for anything more than a few hours, so it looks as though I need a heater, a thermostat to turn the heater on when the temperature drops to ~0șC, and an outdoor socket. Toolstation do a suitable socket (http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p77440), Seapets sell a heater (http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/po...ef=googlebase), but I can't find a thermostat. Anyone able to suggest a source for the thermostat? Comments on the socket and heater would also be welcome. |
Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
F wrote:
Management is concerned that the goldfish in the pond are, as last year, going to die if the pond is frozen over for anything more than a few hours, so it looks as though I need a heater, a thermostat to turn the heater on when the temperature drops to ~0șC, and an outdoor socket. A quicker and fairly effective passive device would consist of a largish chunk of polystyrene packaging with a modest hole in it vertically and another piece loosely on top so that the water under the float doesn't see open sky but air can still get in. The float bobbing about will delay freezing a fair bit. You may have to adjust the bouyancy and shape for optimum results. A black rubber ball works in a similar fashion although it also works better when under a polystyrene cover. Toolstation do a suitable socket (http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p77440), Seapets sell a heater (http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/po...ef=googlebase), but I can't find a thermostat. Anyone able to suggest a source for the thermostat? Comments on the socket and heater would also be welcome. I'd go for a passive solution first. Don't whatever you do break the ice with a hammer! Regards, Martin Brown |
Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 12:31:44 +0000, F news@nowhere wrote:
Management is concerned that the goldfish in the pond are, as last year, going to die if the pond is frozen over for anything more than a few hours, so it looks as though I need a heater, a thermostat to turn the heater on when the temperature drops to ~0șC, and an outdoor socket. Toolstation do a suitable socket (http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p77440), Seapets sell a heater (http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/po...ef=googlebase), but I can't find a thermostat. Anyone able to suggest a source for the thermostat? Comments on the socket and heater would also be welcome. The first thing to remember is that the socket will probably need to be fitted by an appropriately (Part P) qualified electrician. You've presumably checked that the cable on the heater will be long enough to run from socket location to pond (surprising how many people forget that) as you won't be able to use an extension lead outdoors. An alternative is the Blagdon Powersafe system which is intended for DIY installation though isn't cheap! (see http://www.blagdonthepondmasters.co....ucts/index.asp) I've never heard of an in-line thermostat of the type you'll need though in the days when I had fish, nearly 20 years ago, I just plugged the heater in and left it on all the time - electricity was a lot cheaper then - as it had its own thermostat. Might be worth checking with Seapets to see if the one you're looking at has any sort of in-built thermostatic control. Otherwise, if no-one else in this group can help, try asking in uk.diy where there are lots of helpful electricians (they'll also be able to give definitive info on how the Part P regulations will affect you). Cheers, Jake ======================================= Urgling happily from the dryer end of Swansea Bay where the four seasons are salt,pepper,mustard and vinegar. |
Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
On Feb 6, 1:40*pm, Jake Nospam@invalid wrote:
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 12:31:44 +0000, F news@nowhere wrote: Management is concerned that the goldfish in the pond are, as last year, going to die if the pond is frozen over for anything more than a few hours, so it looks as though I need a heater, a thermostat to turn the heater on when the temperature drops to ~0șC, and an outdoor socket. Toolstation do a suitable socket (http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p77440), Seapets sell a heater (http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/po...nt/pond-l....), but I can't find a thermostat. Anyone able to suggest a source for the thermostat? Comments on the socket and heater would also be welcome. The first thing to remember is that the socket will probably need to be fitted by an appropriately (Part P) qualified electrician. You've presumably checked that the cable on the heater will be long enough to run from socket location to pond (surprising how many people forget that) as you won't be able to use an extension lead outdoors. An alternative is the Blagdon Powersafe system which is intended for DIY installation though isn't cheap! (seehttp://www.blagdonthepondmasters.co.uk/products/index.asp) I've never heard of an in-line thermostat of the type you'll need though in the days when I had fish, nearly 20 years ago, I just plugged the heater in and left it on all the time - electricity was a lot cheaper then - as it had its own thermostat. Might be worth checking with Seapets to see if the one you're looking at has any sort of in-built thermostatic control. Otherwise, if no-one else in this group can help, try asking in uk.diy where there are lots of helpful electricians (they'll also be able to give definitive info on how the Part P regulations will affect you). Cheers, Jake ======================================= Urgling happily from the dryer end of Swansea Bay where the four seasons are salt,pepper,mustard and vinegar. You could try an Aquarium Heater place it horizontaly a couple of inches below the surface near the side of the pool, it should keep a small area ice free. |
Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
On Feb 6, 12:31*pm, F news@nowhere wrote:
Management is concerned that the goldfish in the pond are, as last year, going to die if the pond is frozen over for anything more than a few hours, so it looks as though I need a heater, a thermostat to turn the heater on when the temperature drops to ~0șC, and an outdoor socket. Toolstation do a suitable socket (http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p77440), Seapets sell a heater (http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/po...ent/pond-l...), but I can't find a thermostat. Anyone able to suggest a source for the thermostat? Comments on the socket and heater would also be welcome. A pool aerator keeps it ice free for a few degrees of frost. They often have quite a long pipe anduse much less electricity. My koi survived last Winter no problems. |
Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
On Feb 6, 5:35*pm, harry wrote:
On Feb 6, 12:31*pm, F news@nowhere wrote: Management is concerned that the goldfish in the pond are, as last year, going to die if the pond is frozen over for anything more than a few hours, so it looks as though I need a heater, a thermostat to turn the heater on when the temperature drops to ~0șC, and an outdoor socket. Toolstation do a suitable socket (http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p77440), Seapets sell a heater (http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/po...nt/pond-l....), but I can't find a thermostat. Anyone able to suggest a source for the thermostat? Comments on the socket and heater would also be welcome. A pool aerator keeps it ice free for a few degrees of frost. *They often have quite a long pipe anduse much less electricity. My koi survived last Winter no problems. I am using a small fountain, which has been keeping the area around it ice free for several days now. The rest of the pond is well frozen over. There is a long extension lead running from the house and the end of it, which is connected to the fountain lead, is well protected from rain and damp by a cover. Doug. |
Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
On 06/02/2012 17:35 harry wrote:
A pool aerator keeps it ice free for a few degrees of frost. They often have quite a long pipe anduse much less electricity. My koi survived last Winter no problems. Thanks. Care to provide a name or link? Google doesn't seem to want to throw up anything useful. My only concern is that it would tend to turn the water over and lose the 4șC 'warm' layer at the bottom when the top is freezing. Is this an issue at all? -- F |
Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 10:33:47 +0000, F wrote:
My only concern is that it would tend to turn the water over and lose the 4șC 'warm' layer at the bottom when the top is freezing. Is this an issue at all? Could be avoided by having the airstone only an inch or so below the surface? It's the movement that stops the freezing, hence people keeping waterfalls or fountains running. -- Cheers Dave. |
Quote:
You could use a cheap plug timer and have it set to go on and off for a few hours a day. Goldfish are quite hardy, if it freezes up just poor a kettle of boiling water on the ice to create a hole to prevent any build up of gasses. They'll be OK for a few days even if it does freeze over. |
Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
"Doghouse Riley" wrote in message ... I wouldn't bother with a thermostat, if it's a small pond just get a floating pond heater and turn it on when the weather looks like it's going to freeze, the temperature for goldfish isn't that critical, koi would be a different matter. Doghouse Riley Surely Koi won't be a problem as they should have a deep pond in which to live. A pal of mine had a six ft deep pond which held some really impresive Koi. At this depth a bit of surface ice would cause no problems. Bill |
Quote:
The running of filters and the movement of wish would prevent that happening if it did anyway. Deep pools will benefit from the transfer of some heat from the surrounding earth, which is always warmer than surface ground temperatures My koi pool is five feet deep, but it has a swimming pool cover, the filter is insulated in a room in my garage and I've a small heater in the pool. I'm maintaining +6c. I wouldn't want it to go lower than that. Many koi in their first year won't survive sustained temperatures close freezing point for long. Larger fish may, some won't, there's no hard and fast rule with koi, so best to be on the safe side. Goldfish are a "completely different kettle of fish." |
Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
On Feb 10, 8:25*pm, Doghouse Riley Doghouse.Riley.
wrote: Bill Grey;949837 Wrote: "Doghouse Riley" wrote in .uk...-- I wouldn't bother with a thermostat, if it's a small pond just get a- floating pond heater and turn it on when the weather looks like it's going to freeze, the temperature for goldfish isn't that critical, koi would be a different matter. Doghouse Riley- Surely Koi won't be a problem as they should have a deep pond in which to live. *A pal of mine had a six ft deep pond which held some really impresive Koi. At this depth a bit of surface ice would cause no problems. Bill The idea that there can be a layer of warmer water at the bottom of a pool is a myth. It won't happen in normal koi pools of around five or six feet in depth. You'd need to have something well in excess of 3 metres. The running of filters and the movement of wish would prevent that happening if it did anyway. Deep pools will benefit from the transfer of some heat from the surrounding earth, which is always warmer than surface ground temperatures My koi pool *is five feet deep, but it has a swimming pool cover, the filter is insulated in a room in my garage and I've a small heater in the pool. I'm maintaining +6c. I wouldn't want it to go lower than that. Many koi in their first year won't survive sustained temperatures close freezing point for long. Larger fish may, some won't, there's no hard and fast rule with koi, so best to be on the safe side. Goldfish are a "completely different kettle of fish." As a newbie to pond fish I have four shubunkin so what are their chances with part of the pond frozen over? I thought the main problem was lack of oxygen rather than cold. The temperature in London this morning is somewhere between -5C and -9C, the worst yet this winter, but my little fountain is still running, just. Instructions on the packet are to stop feeding when the pond temp is below 4C and the fish haven't appeared since the cold weather started.. Doug. |
Quote:
I've a 3000 gallon koi pool, I've a filter about six feet away from the pool in my garage, the pool and garage are parallel to each other with a four-foot pathway between. The filter is a complex of four 40 gallon tanks (old technology I built it 25 years ago) This is insulated and I've a swimming pool cover cut to fit and floating on the pool, but the filter runs 24/7 as does an Oase air pump feeding two air stones presently raise near the surface of the pool. Both are running at a reduced "winter rate." I'm also running a 300watt aquarium heater 24/7. We live south of Manchester and my pool has so far never been below 6C. http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1592/p1040070s.jpg Fish will reach a dormant stage as the temperature drops, they will stop feeding and sit on the bottom of the pool conserving energy. you don't want a situation where you are providing them with food that will remain undigested in their stomachs. I'd try to keep an area your pool free of ice with a few kettles of boiling water. I don't know how big is yours but you don't want to effect a rapid change in temperature, fish can react badly to that as they will a rapid change in water quality. |
Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
In message , Doghouse Riley
writes The idea that there can be a layer of warmer water at the bottom of a pool is a myth. It won't happen in normal koi pools of around five or six feet in depth. You'd need to have something well in excess of 3 metres. It' snot a myth - it's a scientific fact that the density of water increases as it cools down to about 4 C then it decreases as the water cools further. (Hope I've got that the right way round) In this respect water is unique. That means in a natural pond the water at the bottom will be at 4C with the colder water at the top until it is so cold that the whole lot freezes. However as you say disturbing this with pumps running will interrupt this natural protective mechanism for pond life. Isn't nature amazing. -- hugh |
Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
On Feb 11, 8:55*pm, hugh ] wrote:
In message , Doghouse Riley writesThe idea that there can be a layer of warmer water at the bottom of a pool is a myth. It won't happen in normal koi pools of around five or six feet in depth. You'd need to have something well in excess of 3 metres. It' snot a myth - it's a scientific fact that the density of water increases as it cools down to about 4 C then it decreases as the water cools further. (Hope I've got that the right way round) In this respect water is unique. That means in a natural pond the water at the bottom will be at 4C with the colder water at the top until it is so cold that the whole lot freezes. However as you say disturbing this with pumps running will interrupt this natural protective mechanism for pond life. Isn't nature amazing. However a fountain will oxygenate the water and keep an area around it free from freezing over. I suspect the fountain will freeze before the bottom of the pond does. I checked my pond temp yesterday and it was 6C at the fountain outlet, with the rest of the pond frozen over. I left just a few wheatgerm pellets around the fountain which appeared to be eaten later, after several days of not feeding. I hope the freeze will be over today and tomorrow, as predicted, as my pond filter needs cleaning. My pond is quite small, roughly 3m x 2m and 1m deep but with quite a lot of vegitation. Doug. |
Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
On 06/02/2012 12:31 F wrote:
Management is concerned that the goldfish in the pond are, as last year, going to die if the pond is frozen over for anything more than a few hours, so it looks as though I need a heater, a thermostat to turn the heater on when the temperature drops to ~0șC, and an outdoor socket. Toolstation do a suitable socket (http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p77440), Seapets sell a heater (http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/po...ef=googlebase), but I can't find a thermostat. Anyone able to suggest a source for the thermostat? Comments on the socket and heater would also be welcome. Thanks for the contributions and suggestions. I have installed the socket from Toolstation and the Blagdon heater. Following comments here and elsewhere about the value of a waterfall in cold conditions, we're thinking of installing one (only short, ~1M long). Has anyone any suggestions on a suitable pump and pre-formed waterfall? The pond is 2M x 1.5M x 0.75M deep. Suggestions on any associated equipment that would eliminate/reduce the green pea soup we currently experience in summer would also be welcome, along with suggestions for suppliers. The Seapets experience was less than inspiring with telephone requests for advice being met with great vagueness and emails being ignored. -- F |
Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
On Feb 15, 2:07*pm, F news@nowhere wrote:
On 06/02/2012 12:31 F wrote: Management is concerned that the goldfish in the pond are, as last year, going to die if the pond is frozen over for anything more than a few hours, so it looks as though I need a heater, a thermostat to turn the heater on when the temperature drops to ~0șC, and an outdoor socket. Toolstation do a suitable socket (http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p77440), Seapets sell a heater (http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/po...nt/pond-l....), but I can't find a thermostat. Anyone able to suggest a source for the thermostat? Comments on the socket and heater would also be welcome. Thanks for the contributions and suggestions. I have installed the socket from Toolstation and the Blagdon heater. Following comments here and elsewhere about the value of a waterfall in cold conditions, we're thinking of installing one (only short, ~1M long). Has anyone any suggestions on a suitable pump and pre-formed waterfall? The pond is 2M x 1.5M x 0.75M deep. Suggestions on any associated equipment that would eliminate/reduce the green pea soup we currently experience in summer would also be welcome, along with suggestions for suppliers. The Seapets experience was less than inspiring with telephone requests for advice being met with great vagueness and emails being ignored. Assuming you mean a carpet of duckweed, this can be minimised by flowing water, preferably a fountain which will keep an area clear of it. Frequent scooping out with a kitchen strainer also helps a lot. Doug. |
Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
On 16/02/2012 06:16 Doug wrote:
On Feb 15, 2:07 pm, Fnews@nowhere wrote: On 06/02/2012 12:31 F wrote: Following comments here and elsewhere about the value of a waterfall in cold conditions, we're thinking of installing one (only short, ~1M long). Has anyone any suggestions on a suitable pump and pre-formed waterfall? The pond is 2M x 1.5M x 0.75M deep. Suggestions on any associated equipment that would eliminate/reduce the green pea soup we currently experience in summer would also be welcome, along with suggestions for suppliers. The Seapets experience was less than inspiring with telephone requests for advice being met with great vagueness and emails being ignored. Assuming you mean a carpet of duckweed, this can be minimised by flowing water, preferably a fountain which will keep an area clear of it. Frequent scooping out with a kitchen strainer also helps a lot. No, no duckweed. The water simply turns green and it's difficult to see even a few centimetres into it. -- F |
Quote:
In the winter I run an Oase 5000 just for the filter. I don't run the waterfall in the winter as this would lose a lot of the heat in the pool by the latent heat exchange. The water is kept from going green by employing a 35watt UV sterilser 24/7 in the summer. The rate of flow from any pump depends a lot on how far and how high it has to lift the water, the diameter of the pipe and how many bends in it. What pump depends on what rate of flow you want to come down your waterfall, from just tinkling sounds, to a torrent. Garden centres usually have some running, but they will configured to show as near their maximum output because they'll have the pumps close to the outlet and they won't be lifting the water very high. Garden centres also sell a lot of different pre-formed waterfalls. Some look quite good, but they didn't 25 years ago when I built my pool. A lot depends on what sort of surround you have to your pool. A non-matching one can look really naff. You could build your own. I did that using the same York stone that surrounds our pool. It's set in concrete, we like to think we've got it looking as natural as possible. The waterfall is supplied by a pipe from the sump under the surround and up to the back of the waterfall, you can't see it at all. If you can illuminate it, the combination of the sound of the running water and the changing reflections of the light can make it look very attractive on summer evenings. I hope this helps. ImageShackź - Online Photo and Video Hosting |
Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
On 16/02/2012 22:56 Doghouse Riley wrote:
F;950908 Wrote: On 16/02/2012 06:16 Doug wrote: - On Feb 15, 2:07 pm, Fnews@nowhere wrote:- On 06/02/2012 12:31 F wrote:-- -- Following comments here and elsewhere about the value of a waterfall in cold conditions, we're thinking of installing one (only short, ~1M long). Has anyone any suggestions on a suitable pump and pre-formed waterfall? The pond is 2M x 1.5M x 0.75M deep. Suggestions on any associated equipment that would eliminate/reduce the green pea soup we currently experience in summer would also be welcome, along with suggestions for suppliers. The Seapets experience was less than inspiring with telephone requests for advice being met with great vagueness and emails being ignored. - Assuming you mean a carpet of duckweed, this can be minimised by flowing water, preferably a fountain which will keep an area clear of it. Frequent scooping out with a kitchen strainer also helps a lot.- No, no duckweed. The water simply turns green and it's difficult to see even a few centimetres into it. -- F I've a 3000 gallon koi pool that's 5' deep. I run in summer, an Oase 8500 submersible from a pump sump that feeds the filter and supplies the waterfall on a valved by-pass. In the winter I run an Oase 5000 just for the filter. I don't run the waterfall in the winter as this would lose a lot of the heat in the pool by the latent heat exchange. The water is kept from going green by employing a 35watt UV sterilser 24/7 in the summer. The rate of flow from any pump depends a lot on how far and how high it has to lift the water, the diameter of the pipe and how many bends in it. What pump depends on what rate of flow you want to come down your waterfall, from just tinkling sounds, to a torrent. Garden centres usually have some running, but they will configured to show as near their maximum output because they'll have the pumps close to the outlet and they won't be lifting the water very high. Garden centres also sell a lot of different pre-formed waterfalls. Some look quite good, but they didn't 25 years ago when I built my pool. A lot depends on what sort of surround you have to your pool. A non-matching one can look really naff. You could build your own. I did that using the same York stone that surrounds our pool. It's set in concrete, we like to think we've got it looking as natural as possible. The waterfall is supplied by a pipe from the sump under the surround and up to the back of the waterfall, you can't see it at all. If you can illuminate it, the combination of the sound of the running water and the changing reflections of the light can make it look very attractive on summer evenings. I hope this helps. 'ImageShackź - Online Photo and Video Hosting' (http://tinyurl.com/6vwkdmx) It did help: thanks! Just a couple of questions: - from reading the Oase website, the filter appears to be separate from the pump and placed above water just before the waterfall? - I see the UV steriliser is in a housing. Is it connected into the pump in the pond or the filter just before the outlet to the waterfall? -- F |
Outdoor thermostat and pond heater
On Feb 11, 11:44*am, Doghouse Riley Doghouse.Riley.
wrote: 'Doug[_5_ Wrote: ;950566'] As a newbie to pond fish I have four shubunkin so what are their chances with part of the pond frozen over? I thought the main problem was lack of oxygen rather than cold. The temperature in London this morning is somewhere between -5C and -9C, the worst yet this winter, but my little fountain is still running, just. Instructions on the *packet are to stop feeding when the pond temp is below 4C and the fish haven't appeared since the cold weather started.. Doug. It's difficult to make general recommendations, I can only speak from my own knowledge and experience. Different fish can tolerate different conditions. I've a 3000 gallon koi pool, I've a filter about six feet away from the pool in my garage, the pool and garage are parallel to each other with a four-foot pathway between. The filter is a complex of four 40 gallon tanks (old technology I built it 25 years ago) This is insulated and I've a swimming pool cover cut to fit and floating on the pool, but the filter runs 24/7 as does an Oase *air pump feeding two air stones presently raise near the surface of the pool. Both are running at a reduced "winter rate." I'm also running a 300watt aquarium heater 24/7. We live south of Manchester and my pool has so far never been below 6C. [image:http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1592/p1040070s.jpg] Fish will reach a dormant stage as the temperature drops, they will stop feeding and sit on the bottom of the pool conserving energy. you don't want a situation where you are providing them with food that will remain undigested in their stomachs. I'd try to keep an area your pool free of ice with a few kettles of boiling water. I don't know how big is yours but you don't want to effect a rapid change in temperature, fish can react badly to that as they will a rapid change in water quality. I tried very hot water to melt the ice but it didn't work. The fountain though managed to keep a circle of water around it oxygenated and free of ice. Now that the freeze has finished my shubunkins have reappeared and are feeding again and seem to be OK. With the ice gone I managed to clean the submerged fountain filter and now the fountain is reaching high and the water remains clear and transparent. There is some frost damage to the pond plants but they will probably recover as they have in previous years. Doug. |
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