I wonder if anyone has encountered this problem and found a lasting
solution to it. We have two half standard bays which are excellent
but for the continuing presence of caterpillars which damage the
leaves, particularly new softer leaves.

The caterpillars are of the leaf roller type but as the leaves are too
rigid to roll they stick adjoining leaves together and, in the safety
of the leaf sandwich they munch the surface layers leaving large brown
or semi transparent patches.

I have also noticed the same caterpillars on one of our Choisya
shrubs.

It looks as though they are the larvae of the Carnation tortrix moth,
Cacoecimorpha pronubana, which is a problem as I cannot find any
readily available effective controls online.

If anyone has discovered anything that works. I have tried a
thiachloprid (which being a neonicotinoid I only use as a last resort)
but so far even drenching the bays with it has not solved the problem.
--
rbel

On 06/01/2013 13:17, rbel wrote:

I wonder if anyone has encountered this problem and found a lasting
solution to it. We have two half standard bays which are excellent
but for the continuing presence of caterpillars which damage the
leaves, particularly new softer leaves.

The caterpillars are of the leaf roller type but as the leaves are too
rigid to roll they stick adjoining leaves together and, in the safety
of the leaf sandwich they munch the surface layers leaving large brown
or semi transparent patches.

I have also noticed the same caterpillars on one of our Choisya
shrubs.

It looks as though they are the larvae of the Carnation tortrix moth,
Cacoecimorpha pronubana, which is a problem as I cannot find any
readily available effective controls online.

If anyone has discovered anything that works. I have tried a
thiachloprid (which being a neonicotinoid I only use as a last resort)
but so far even drenching the bays with it has not solved the problem.



I am hoping here that you do not use your bay leaves for cullinary
purposes, since the best way of ridding your trees of this pest is a
systemic insecticide. Because the caterpillars are protected, any
contact insecticide you use will not have any effect. A systemic
insecticide will get into the sap of your tree, the insects will suck
the sap and die.

In truth, I am not aware of a caterpillar specifically dependant on
Laurus nobilus (Bay Tree), but even if you have misidentified your pest,
a systemic insecticide will rid your tree of both Bay Sucker and Scale
insects.

If you do use your bay leaves in the kitchen, I suggest you cut a stem
or several for drying, then apply the systemic drench.

Hope this helps.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

"Spider" wrote in message
...
On 06/01/2013 13:17, rbel wrote:

I wonder if anyone has encountered this problem and found a lasting
solution to it. We have two half standard bays which are excellent
but for the continuing presence of caterpillars which damage the
leaves, particularly new softer leaves.

The caterpillars are of the leaf roller type but as the leaves are too
rigid to roll they stick adjoining leaves together and, in the safety
of the leaf sandwich they munch the surface layers leaving large brown
or semi transparent patches.

I have also noticed the same caterpillars on one of our Choisya
shrubs.

It looks as though they are the larvae of the Carnation tortrix moth,
Cacoecimorpha pronubana, which is a problem as I cannot find any
readily available effective controls online.

If anyone has discovered anything that works. I have tried a
thiachloprid (which being a neonicotinoid I only use as a last resort)
but so far even drenching the bays with it has not solved the problem.



I am hoping here that you do not use your bay leaves for cullinary
purposes, since the best way of ridding your trees of this pest is a
systemic insecticide. Because the caterpillars are protected, any contact
insecticide you use will not have any effect. A systemic insecticide will
get into the sap of your tree, the insects will suck the sap and die.

In truth, I am not aware of a caterpillar specifically dependant on Laurus
nobilus (Bay Tree), but even if you have misidentified your pest, a
systemic insecticide will rid your tree of both Bay Sucker and Scale
insects.

If you do use your bay leaves in the kitchen, I suggest you cut a stem or
several for drying, then apply the systemic drench.

Hope this helps.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

Thanks for that Spider. Whilst we don't, 'I hope' have any problems, it's
nice to know what to do should the problem arise.

We have lots of Bay, they seem to grow like weeds, should we see trouble on
one, will it spread to others? Thinking Dutch Elm and now Ash problems.

Mike


--

....................................

Smile ... It irritates those who wish to destroy you.

....................................

On Sun, 06 Jan 2013 13:49:54 +0000, Spider wrote:

On 06/01/2013 13:17, rbel wrote:

I wonder if anyone has encountered this problem and found a lasting
solution to it. We have two half standard bays which are excellent
but for the continuing presence of caterpillars which damage the
leaves, particularly new softer leaves.

The caterpillars are of the leaf roller type but as the leaves are too
rigid to roll they stick adjoining leaves together and, in the safety
of the leaf sandwich they munch the surface layers leaving large brown
or semi transparent patches.

I have also noticed the same caterpillars on one of our Choisya
shrubs.

It looks as though they are the larvae of the Carnation tortrix moth,
Cacoecimorpha pronubana, which is a problem as I cannot find any
readily available effective controls online.

If anyone has discovered anything that works. I have tried a
thiachloprid (which being a neonicotinoid I only use as a last resort)
but so far even drenching the bays with it has not solved the problem.



I am hoping here that you do not use your bay leaves for cullinary
purposes, since the best way of ridding your trees of this pest is a
systemic insecticide. Because the caterpillars are protected, any
contact insecticide you use will not have any effect. A systemic
insecticide will get into the sap of your tree, the insects will suck
the sap and die.

In truth, I am not aware of a caterpillar specifically dependant on
Laurus nobilus (Bay Tree), but even if you have misidentified your pest,
a systemic insecticide will rid your tree of both Bay Sucker and Scale
insects.

If you do use your bay leaves in the kitchen, I suggest you cut a stem
or several for drying, then apply the systemic drench.

Hope this helps.

Many thanks for the quick response.

Our bays are purely ornamental. This moth is not specifically
dependant on bay, according to FERA and ADAS papers it is at home on a
variety of plants. To quote FERA -
"C. pronubana is highly polyphagous and larvae feed on plants in 138
genera.
Throughout its range, C. pronubana is a pest of carnation (Dianthus
caryophyllus). Other major hosts include Brassica, Chrysanthemum,
Citrus, Daucus carota (carrot), Lycopersicon esculentum (tomato),
Pelargonium, Picea (spruce), Pinus (pine), Prunus, Rosa and Vicia faba
(beans). Minor hosts include Allium porrum (leeks) and Fragaria
(strawberry)"

The thiachloprid insecticide I have used is a systemic, unfortunately
so far it has not worked even though it has been used for the maximum
number of applications per annum.

I wonder if Charlie or Sacha have come across this pest as it thrives
in commercial glasshouse environments.
--
rbel

On 06/01/2013 14:25, 'Mike' wrote:


"Spider" wrote in message
...
On 06/01/2013 13:17, rbel wrote:

I wonder if anyone has encountered this problem and found a lasting
solution to it. We have two half standard bays which are excellent
but for the continuing presence of caterpillars which damage the
leaves, particularly new softer leaves.

The caterpillars are of the leaf roller type but as the leaves are too
rigid to roll they stick adjoining leaves together and, in the safety
of the leaf sandwich they munch the surface layers leaving large brown
or semi transparent patches.

I have also noticed the same caterpillars on one of our Choisya
shrubs.

It looks as though they are the larvae of the Carnation tortrix moth,
Cacoecimorpha pronubana, which is a problem as I cannot find any
readily available effective controls online.

If anyone has discovered anything that works. I have tried a
thiachloprid (which being a neonicotinoid I only use as a last resort)
but so far even drenching the bays with it has not solved the problem.



I am hoping here that you do not use your bay leaves for cullinary
purposes, since the best way of ridding your trees of this pest is a
systemic insecticide. Because the caterpillars are protected, any
contact insecticide you use will not have any effect. A systemic
insecticide will get into the sap of your tree, the insects will suck
the sap and die.

In truth, I am not aware of a caterpillar specifically dependant on
Laurus nobilus (Bay Tree), but even if you have misidentified your
pest, a systemic insecticide will rid your tree of both Bay Sucker and
Scale insects.

If you do use your bay leaves in the kitchen, I suggest you cut a stem
or several for drying, then apply the systemic drench.

Hope this helps.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

Thanks for that Spider. Whilst we don't, 'I hope' have any problems,
it's nice to know what to do should the problem arise.

We have lots of Bay, they seem to grow like weeds, should we see trouble
on one, will it spread to others? Thinking Dutch Elm and now Ash problems.

Mike




I think you can be fairly sure that any insect pest that infests one
Bay, will infest the rest. I'm not aware of any identifiable
pest/disease on Bay. However, although I haven't experienced any kind
of Phytophthera damage on my Bay tree, this type of fungal disease seems
so rife it would be wise just to be aware of it. If your tree looks
generally healthy, it probably is. As to the problems re Dutch Elm and
Ash trees, they are to my knowledge, specific to that host. Of course,
any sap sucking pest that wounds your tree can introduce disease or
virus from its previous port of call. Just be watchful.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

"Spider" wrote in message
...
On 06/01/2013 14:25, 'Mike' wrote:


"Spider" wrote in message
...
On 06/01/2013 13:17, rbel wrote:

I wonder if anyone has encountered this problem and found a lasting
solution to it. We have two half standard bays which are excellent
but for the continuing presence of caterpillars which damage the
leaves, particularly new softer leaves.

The caterpillars are of the leaf roller type but as the leaves are too
rigid to roll they stick adjoining leaves together and, in the safety
of the leaf sandwich they munch the surface layers leaving large brown
or semi transparent patches.

I have also noticed the same caterpillars on one of our Choisya
shrubs.

It looks as though they are the larvae of the Carnation tortrix moth,
Cacoecimorpha pronubana, which is a problem as I cannot find any
readily available effective controls online.

If anyone has discovered anything that works. I have tried a
thiachloprid (which being a neonicotinoid I only use as a last resort)
but so far even drenching the bays with it has not solved the problem.



I am hoping here that you do not use your bay leaves for cullinary
purposes, since the best way of ridding your trees of this pest is a
systemic insecticide. Because the caterpillars are protected, any
contact insecticide you use will not have any effect. A systemic
insecticide will get into the sap of your tree, the insects will suck
the sap and die.

In truth, I am not aware of a caterpillar specifically dependant on
Laurus nobilus (Bay Tree), but even if you have misidentified your
pest, a systemic insecticide will rid your tree of both Bay Sucker and
Scale insects.

If you do use your bay leaves in the kitchen, I suggest you cut a stem
or several for drying, then apply the systemic drench.

Hope this helps.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

Thanks for that Spider. Whilst we don't, 'I hope' have any problems,
it's nice to know what to do should the problem arise.

We have lots of Bay, they seem to grow like weeds, should we see trouble
on one, will it spread to others? Thinking Dutch Elm and now Ash
problems.

Mike




I think you can be fairly sure that any insect pest that infests one Bay,
will infest the rest. I'm not aware of any identifiable pest/disease on
Bay. However, although I haven't experienced any kind of Phytophthera
damage on my Bay tree, this type of fungal disease seems so rife it would
be wise just to be aware of it. If your tree looks generally healthy, it
probably is. As to the problems re Dutch Elm and Ash trees, they are to
my knowledge, specific to that host. Of course, any sap sucking pest that
wounds your tree can introduce disease or virus from its previous port of
call. Just be watchful.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

Thanks Spider.

Very healthy, ...... I think ;-)

Bit dark to examine them now, but will have a good deco tomorrow.

Thanks again

Mike


--

....................................

Smile...It irritates those who wish to destroy you.

....................................

On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 23:05:44 +0000, Sacha wrote:



Our bays are purely ornamental. This moth is not specifically
dependant on bay, according to FERA and ADAS papers it is at home on a
variety of plants. To quote FERA -
"C. pronubana is highly polyphagous and larvae feed on plants in 138
genera.
Throughout its range, C. pronubana is a pest of carnation (Dianthus
caryophyllus). Other major hosts include Brassica, Chrysanthemum,
Citrus, Daucus carota (carrot), Lycopersicon esculentum (tomato),
Pelargonium, Picea (spruce), Pinus (pine), Prunus, Rosa and Vicia faba
(beans). Minor hosts include Allium porrum (leeks) and Fragaria
(strawberry)"

The thiachloprid insecticide I have used is a systemic, unfortunately
so far it has not worked even though it has been used for the maximum
number of applications per annum.

I wonder if Charlie or Sacha have come across this pest as it thrives
in commercial glasshouse environments.

I asked Ray and his reply is that we see very few of them so when we
do, we squash them!

So do I when if and when I spot them. The problem is spotting them in
amongst the dense foliage when they are installed in their leaf
sandwiches, hence resorting to insecticide. Unfortunately the first
sign of their presence is invariably chewed brown leaves.
--
rbel