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Kilner jars.
I went to the car boot market this morning to get me spring cabbage plants
and bought a box of 30ish 1 and 2 pint kilner jars for £3.50. Most of the seals are nacked, but no problem I can make some. I am going to do some beetroot, onions, tomatoes and some cucumbers (gerkins?). That will take 10 jars maximum. What else can I store in them? My auntie makes all the jam and marmalade until such times when she can't anymore. I can give them away, and I will, no problem, but I like the idea of preserving what I can. If I give them away they will be full, probably of beetroot or onions. Maybe tomatoes, seeing as how they have started to ripen by the minute. Baz |
Kilner jars.
On 01/09/2013 14:29, Baz wrote:
I went to the car boot market this morning to get me spring cabbage plants and bought a box of 30ish 1 and 2 pint kilner jars for £3.50. Most of the seals are nacked, but no problem I can make some. I am going to do some beetroot, onions, tomatoes and some cucumbers (gerkins?). That will take 10 jars maximum. What else can I store in them? My auntie makes all the jam and marmalade until such times when she can't anymore. I can give them away, and I will, no problem, but I like the idea of preserving what I can. If I give them away they will be full, probably of beetroot or onions. Maybe tomatoes, seeing as how they have started to ripen by the minute. Baz Basically, any vegetable/fruit that needs to be boiled to be cooked could be stored cooked in a Kilner Jar. I happen to love ratatouille, and I see no reason why that couldn't' be cooked and stored in a KJ. What about ready-prepared mushy peas? Curried aubergines (or other "fruit" veg)? Apple and/or pear puree? -- Jeff |
Kilner jars.
Jeff Layman wrote in
: On 01/09/2013 14:29, Baz wrote: I went to the car boot market this morning to get me spring cabbage plants and bought a box of 30ish 1 and 2 pint kilner jars for £3.50. Most of the seals are nacked, but no problem I can make some. I am going to do some beetroot, onions, tomatoes and some cucumbers (gerkins?). That will take 10 jars maximum. What else can I store in them? My auntie makes all the jam and marmalade until such times when she can't anymore. I can give them away, and I will, no problem, but I like the idea of preserving what I can. If I give them away they will be full, probably of beetroot or onions. Maybe tomatoes, seeing as how they have started to ripen by the minute. Baz Basically, any vegetable/fruit that needs to be boiled to be cooked could be stored cooked in a Kilner Jar. I happen to love ratatouille, and I see no reason why that couldn't' be cooked and stored in a KJ. What about ready-prepared mushy peas? Curried aubergines (or other "fruit" veg)? Apple and/or pear puree? There are some good ideas. Thanks Jeff. Not been the best of years for fruit and veg. but there is next year to look forward to. I think my world champion chilli with mushrooms and extra garlic with soya beans is a candidate. Well I like it. I will get some jarred and see. Baz Thanks |
Kilner jars.
"Baz" wrote in message ... I went to the car boot market this morning to get me spring cabbage plants and bought a box of 30ish 1 and 2 pint kilner jars for £3.50. Most of the seals are nacked, but no problem I can make some. I'd be very interested to know how to make home-made seals for Kilner jars that are safe to keep the contents. Tina |
Kilner jars.
"Christina Websell" wrote in
: "Baz" wrote in message ... I went to the car boot market this morning to get me spring cabbage plants and bought a box of 30ish 1 and 2 pint kilner jars for £3.50. Most of the seals are nacked, but no problem I can make some. I'd be very interested to know how to make home-made seals for Kilner jars that are safe to keep the contents. Tina It is not difficult! In fact it is so simple, even might get your interest. http://tinyurl.com/pnupgf2 I happen to have food safe synthetics, part of what the company I work for uses. I work for a building company and just about everything is used in one way or another, from gravel to bricks and from barrows to spades. etc: etc: Baz |
Kilner jars.
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Kilner jars.
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Kilner jars.
"Janet" wrote in message ... In article , says... "Baz" wrote in message ... I went to the car boot market this morning to get me spring cabbage plants and bought a box of 30ish 1 and 2 pint kilner jars for £3.50. Most of the seals are nacked, but no problem I can make some. I'd be very interested to know how to make home-made seals for Kilner jars that are safe to keep the contents. Tina Why take the risk: proper new ones are easily available. Janet wouldn't dream of it, just interested about Baz's idea of buying Kilner jars and finding a way to seal them safely without buying the proper seals. How does that work, Baz? I'd really like to know. |
Kilner jars.
"Baz" wrote
I went to the car boot market this morning to get me spring cabbage plants and bought a box of 30ish 1 and 2 pint kilner jars for £3.50. Most of the seals are nacked, but no problem I can make some. I am going to do some beetroot, onions, tomatoes and some cucumbers (gerkins?). That will take 10 jars maximum. What else can I store in them? My auntie makes all the jam and marmalade until such times when she can't anymore. I can give them away, and I will, no problem, but I like the idea of preserving what I can. If I give them away they will be full, probably of beetroot or onions. Maybe tomatoes, seeing as how they have started to ripen by the minute. How about pickling some Red Cabbage and makeing some Piccalilli. -- Regards. Bob Hobden. Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK |
Kilner jars.
On 02/09/2013 07:35, Malcolm wrote:
In article , Baz writes I went to the car boot market this morning to get me spring cabbage plants and bought a box of 30ish 1 and 2 pint kilner jars for £3.50. Most of the seals are nacked, but no problem I can make some. I am going to do some beetroot, onions, tomatoes and some cucumbers (gerkins?). That will take 10 jars maximum. What else can I store in them? My auntie makes all the jam and marmalade until such times when she can't anymore. I can give them away, and I will, no problem, but I like the idea of preserving what I can. If I give them away they will be full, probably of beetroot or onions. Maybe tomatoes, seeing as how they have started to ripen by the minute. Use them for fruit that doesn't freeze well. We bottle whole crab apples in syrup. I would use then judiciously, I remember my parent laughing that they bottled new potatoes, thought they would be lovely for Christmas. After a couple of months there we several very loud explosions, on investigation the potatoes has fermented and exploded. Took them a while to clean up the mess. Incidentally I remember mum preserving rings of apples by salting and drying, when soaked they made very acceptable apple pies! Mind you this was during the war, when she also preserved runner beans in a similar fashion. |
Kilner jars.
I would use then judiciously, I remember my parent laughing that they bottled new potatoes, thought they would be lovely for Christmas. After a couple of months there we several very loud explosions, on investigation the potatoes has fermented and exploded. Took them a while to clean up the mess. Incidentally I remember mum preserving rings of apples by salting and drying, when soaked they made very acceptable apple pies! Mind you this was during the war, when she also preserved runner beans in a similar fashion. Remember, if you are going to try this, the salt then was different to the bulk of what you get today, it was either rock salt or sea salt without the additives that we now have. |
Kilner jars.
On 01/09/2013 18:48, Baz wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote in : On 01/09/2013 14:29, Baz wrote: I went to the car boot market this morning to get me spring cabbage plants and bought a box of 30ish 1 and 2 pint kilner jars for £3.50. Most of the seals are nacked, but no problem I can make some. I am going to do some beetroot, onions, tomatoes and some cucumbers (gerkins?). That will take 10 jars maximum. What else can I store in them? My auntie makes all the jam and marmalade until such times when she can't anymore. I can give them away, and I will, no problem, but I like the idea of preserving what I can. If I give them away they will be full, probably of beetroot or onions. Maybe tomatoes, seeing as how they have started to ripen by the minute. Baz Basically, any vegetable/fruit that needs to be boiled to be cooked could be stored cooked in a Kilner Jar. I happen to love ratatouille, and I see no reason why that couldn't' be cooked and stored in a KJ. What about ready-prepared mushy peas? Curried aubergines (or other "fruit" veg)? Apple and/or pear puree? There are some good ideas. Thanks Jeff. Not been the best of years for fruit and veg. but there is next year to look forward to. I think my world champion chilli with mushrooms and extra garlic with soya beans is a candidate. Well I like it. I will get some jarred and see. Baz Thanks One other suggestion. Go round the canned and/or bottled fruit and veg shelves of a large supermarket or two (maybe a Lidl or Aldi too, as they often have different ranges to the usual). See what they have available. If you are growing similar things, or will be next year, you could try the same thing if anything appeals to you. The chilli sounds interesting, but I think you should be banned from using a lift after eating it in case some poor soul gets stuck in there with you! -- Jeff |
Kilner jars.
"Christina Websell" wrote in
: "Janet" wrote in message ... In article , says... "Baz" wrote in message ... I went to the car boot market this morning to get me spring cabbage plants and bought a box of 30ish 1 and 2 pint kilner jars for £3.50. Most of the seals are nacked, but no problem I can make some. I'd be very interested to know how to make home-made seals for Kilner jars that are safe to keep the contents. Tina Why take the risk: proper new ones are easily available. Janet I have not found any for imperial jars. wouldn't dream of it, just interested about Baz's idea of buying Kilner jars and finding a way to seal them safely without buying the proper seals. How does that work, Baz? I'd really like to know. It works very, very, simply indeed. You need tools, (a pair of compass and a craft knife) and FOOD SAFE rubber or neoprene sheet, 2 or 3mm thick. You use the compass to draw a circle and use the craft knife to cut it out. You shorten the radius to suit and do the same to create an "O" ring. Now that is not difficult is it! That is the long way round. I doubt you would be interested in putting a scalpel blade into a set of dividers. Baz |
Kilner jars.
Jeff Layman wrote in
: :: There are some good ideas. Thanks Jeff. Not been the best of years for fruit and veg. but there is next year to look forward to. I think my world champion chilli with mushrooms and extra garlic with soya beans is a candidate. Well I like it. I will get some jarred and see. Baz Thanks One other suggestion. Go round the canned and/or bottled fruit and veg shelves of a large supermarket or two (maybe a Lidl or Aldi too, as they often have different ranges to the usual). See what they have available. If you are growing similar things, or will be next year, you could try the same thing if anything appeals to you. I have done that. My favourite is beans, whole or in a pod, canned and sweetened. I have been told in this group that it has the potential to harbour nasty bugs. My great aunt(who lives with us and is chief cook) used to make Kilner jars full of them. Unfortunatly now in her 80's she can't remember how. She is still the best cook I know. The chilli sounds interesting, but I think you should be banned from using a lift after eating it in case some poor soul gets stuck in there with you! Funny you should say that.....:) Baz |
Kilner jars.
Baz wrote:
I am going to do some beetroot, onions, tomatoes and some cucumbers (gerkins?). I may have missed mention of botulism; surely everybody knows that non-acid foods need the temperature of a pressure canner to be sure? I had to dig out my EnglishAmerican reference to find out that we call them "Mason jars," after the dominant (but surely not only) manufacturer. What are use are similar to the pictures of Kilner jars, with a separate ring (usually removed after the contents cool) and lid with rubber seal, which is not to be re-used. -- Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/4 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G |
Kilner jars.
On Sun, 01 Sep 2013 13:29:56 GMT, Baz wrote:
I went to the car boot market this morning to get me spring cabbage plants and bought a box of 30ish 1 and 2 pint kilner jars for £3.50. Most of the seals are nacked, but no problem I can make some. I am going to do some beetroot, onions, tomatoes and some cucumbers (gerkins?). That will take 10 jars maximum. What else can I store in them? My auntie makes all the jam and marmalade until such times when she can't anymore. I can give them away, and I will, no problem, but I like the idea of preserving what I can. If I give them away they will be full, probably of beetroot or onions. Maybe tomatoes, seeing as how they have started to ripen by the minute. Baz On our allotment site some years ago we had a half Italian lady (other half British... don't ask which half). She used to plant the whole allotment with plum tomatoes which she bottled in jars by the dozen, to share with family. Then along came the blight, year after year and she gave up the allotment. Eggs and baskets comes to mind! It was bad enough losing half a dozen plants, let alone an allotment-full! Pam in Bristol |
Kilner jars.
Gary Woods wrote in
: Baz wrote: I am going to do some beetroot, onions, tomatoes and some cucumbers (gerkins?). I may have missed mention of botulism; surely everybody knows that non-acid foods need the temperature of a pressure canner to be sure? I had to dig out my EnglishAmerican reference to find out that we call them "Mason jars," after the dominant (but surely not only) manufacturer. What are use are similar to the pictures of Kilner jars, with a separate ring (usually removed after the contents cool) and lid with rubber seal, which is not to be re-used. One other suggestion. Go round the canned and/or bottled fruit and veg shelves of a large supermarket or two (maybe a Lidl or Aldi too, as they often have different ranges to the usual). See what they have available. If you are growing similar things, or will be next year, you could try the same thing if anything appeals to you. I have done that. My favourite is beans, whole or in a pod, canned and sweetened. I have been told in this group that it has the potential to harbour nasty bugs. My great aunt(who lives with us and is chief cook) used to make Kilner jars full of them. Unfortunatly now in her 80's she can't remember how. She is still the best cook I know. I just clipped the above from within this discussion. So we can't bottle beans safely? I want to be clear on this. Thanks Baz |
Kilner jars.
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Kilner jars.
In article ,
Janet wrote: In article , says... Baz wrote: I am going to do some beetroot, onions, tomatoes and some cucumbers (gerkins?). I may have missed mention of botulism; surely everybody knows that non-acid foods need the temperature of a pressure canner to be sure? Nope, nobody in the UK knows that. Here, Kilner jars of fruit/veg are just filled, closed and cooked in a boiling water pan without pressure. That is wrong. If you look at most older books, you will see that the recommendation is exactly as Gary said. Also, some people living in the UK have previously lived at moderate altitudes, which makes the requirement more important. What's more, when we've filled jars with home made jam and put the lid on, that's it done; we don't boil them at all. You make entirely non-acid jam? Please post the recipe for our amusement (if not delectation) :-) I know that transpondians regard these as dicing-with-death pagan practices, but we've always done it this way and not died of botulism. The recommendation always was slightly overstated, because the main danger comes from high-protein foods. I would very, VERY strongly advise people not to store such things in that way without the extra pressure or without checking the seal when using them. Also, it really only matters for foods that are only lightly cooked after being removed from the jar. Extended cooking will destroy the botulinism toxin. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Kilner jars.
On 02/09/2013 17:47, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article , Janet wrote: In article , says... Baz wrote: I am going to do some beetroot, onions, tomatoes and some cucumbers (gerkins?). I may have missed mention of botulism; surely everybody knows that non-acid foods need the temperature of a pressure canner to be sure? Nope, nobody in the UK knows that. Here, Kilner jars of fruit/veg are just filled, closed and cooked in a boiling water pan without pressure. That is wrong. If you look at most older books, you will see that the recommendation is exactly as Gary said. Also, some people living in the UK have previously lived at moderate altitudes, which makes the requirement more important. What's more, when we've filled jars with home made jam and put the lid on, that's it done; we don't boil them at all. You make entirely non-acid jam? Please post the recipe for our amusement (if not delectation) :-) I know that transpondians regard these as dicing-with-death pagan practices, but we've always done it this way and not died of botulism. The recommendation always was slightly overstated, because the main danger comes from high-protein foods. I would very, VERY strongly advise people not to store such things in that way without the extra pressure or without checking the seal when using them. Also, it really only matters for foods that are only lightly cooked after being removed from the jar. Extended cooking will destroy the botulinism toxin. Regards, Nick Maclaren. This is the abstract from "Thermal Inactivation of Type E Botulinum Toxin": See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC546888/ where there are several other refs. "The theoretical required cooking times for inactivation of type E Clostridium botulinum toxin (5,000 ld50 mouse units per 0.5 ml) in haddock fillets of various sizes were calculated by graphical integration of the toxin inactivation rate and heat penetration data. The results indicated that normal cooking procedures should suffice to inactivate this amount of toxin. This conclusion was substantiated by the following additional experimental observations which revealed that the original experiments had been conducted under conservative conditions. First, maximal heat stability of the toxin was found to occur at about pH 5.5, with decreasing resistance upon increasing pH. The theoretical cooking times were based on destruction of the toxin at pH 6.7. The pH of radio-pasteurized inoculated haddock, when toxin production had occurred, was on the alkaline side, at which condition the toxin is heat-labile. Second, when spoilage was discernible in radio-pasteurized inoculated haddock, the toxin titer was low, about 50 ld50 mouse units per 0.5 ml. Third, the toxin was adequately inactivated in toxic fillets after deep-fat frying for 3 min at 375 F (190.6 C) or after pan frying for 5 min per side at 400 F (204.4 C)." (Full paper at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00232-0039.pdf) -- Jeff |
Kilner jars.
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Kilner jars.
In article ,
Janet wrote: I am going to do some beetroot, onions, tomatoes and some cucumbers (gerkins?). I may have missed mention of botulism; surely everybody knows that non-acid foods need the temperature of a pressure canner to be sure? Nope, nobody in the UK knows that. Here, Kilner jars of fruit/veg are just filled, closed and cooked in a boiling water pan without pressure. That is wrong. It's the way my family did it for years. Endless bottled plums were a winter feature of childhood. You do seem to have trouble with the qualification "non-acid", don't you? :-) Plums most definitely do NOT count! The only fruit commonly eaten in the UK that do that I can think of are bananas and avocados. Even ripe strawberries have a fair amount of acid. If you look at most older books, you will see that the recommendation is exactly as Gary said. Also, some people living in the UK have previously lived at moderate altitudes, which makes the requirement more important. why? I don't follow why where they previously lived, makes any difference later? Because the boiling point is lower at altitude. What's more, when we've filled jars with home made jam and put the lid on, that's it done; we don't boil them at all. You make entirely non-acid jam? Please post the recipe for our amusement (if not delectation) :-) This was a mere poke at US jam makers, who having made jam and jarred it, then pressure can it. Well, yes, but Gary is not a USA marketdroid. The recommendation always was slightly overstated, because the main danger comes from high-protein foods. I would very, VERY strongly advise people not to store such things in that way without the extra pressure or without checking the seal when using them. You check the seal the day after sealing the jars when they are cold; if it hasn't taken you either use the contents or reseal and boil again. And you always, always test the airtight vaccuum seal before opening and using the jar to use. The danger with high-protein, non-acid foods, such as fish and meat is that mere boiling point is not enough to destroy Clostridium botulinum spores. If one then germinates, the toxin will build up, and the sealed food can then be lethal. Yes, it happens. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Kilner jars.
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Kilner jars.
On 02/09/2013 15:44, Martin wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 12:16:38 +0100, David Hill wrote: I would use then judiciously, I remember my parent laughing that they bottled new potatoes, thought they would be lovely for Christmas. After a couple of months there we several very loud explosions, on investigation the potatoes has fermented and exploded. Took them a while to clean up the mess. Incidentally I remember mum preserving rings of apples by salting and drying, when soaked they made very acceptable apple pies! Mind you this was during the war, when she also preserved runner beans in a similar fashion. Remember, if you are going to try this, the salt then was different to the bulk of what you get today, it was either rock salt or sea salt without the additives that we now have. Which additives? http://www.british-salt.co.uk/Produc...iedVacuum.aspx Anti caking agent Sodium Ferrocyanide |
Kilner jars.
On 02/09/13 16:37, Gary Woods wrote:
Baz wrote: I am going to do some beetroot, onions, tomatoes and some cucumbers (gerkins?). I may have missed mention of botulism; surely everybody knows that non-acid foods need the temperature of a pressure canner to be sure? I'm not sure that's sufficient, but I haven't checked either way. Several decades ago several people were poisoned by botulism in canned salmon from a major manufacturer. I remember this since at the end of the week it was in the news my cousin married one of the daughters of the MD of the company. Yes, they did refer to it in the speeches :) |
Kilner jars.
In article ,
Janet wrote: I am going to do some beetroot, onions, tomatoes and some cucumbers (gerkins?). I may have missed mention of botulism; surely everybody knows that non-acid foods need the temperature of a pressure canner to be sure? Nope, nobody in the UK knows that. Here, Kilner jars of fruit/veg are just filled, closed and cooked in a boiling water pan without pressure. That is wrong. It's the way my family did it for years. Endless bottled plums were a winter feature of childhood. You do seem to have trouble with the qualification "non-acid", don't you? :-) Plums most definitely do NOT count! The only fruit commonly eaten in the UK that do that I can think of are bananas and avocados. Even ripe strawberries have a fair amount of acid. If you look at most older books, you will see that the recommendation is exactly as Gary said. Also, some people living in the UK have previously lived at moderate altitudes, which makes the requirement more important. why? I don't follow why where they previously lived, makes any difference later? Because the boiling point is lower at altitude. You seem to have a problem with the term "previously" :-=) You're hardly living at altitude now, nor is Baz, the person about to deploy Kilner jars in the English flatlands. Not at all. I said what I meant and I meant what I said. If you choose to misinterpret it, that's your problem. Quite a lot of people who used to live where it was essential continued to do it after returning to the UK. Your statement that nobody in the UK knows that and that nobody does that (which is what I was addressing) was and is just plain wrong. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Kilner jars.
On 02/09/2013 19:02, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 02/09/13 16:37, Gary Woods wrote: Baz wrote: I am going to do some beetroot, onions, tomatoes and some cucumbers (gerkins?). I may have missed mention of botulism; surely everybody knows that non-acid foods need the temperature of a pressure canner to be sure? I'm not sure that's sufficient, but I haven't checked either way. Several decades ago several people were poisoned by botulism in canned salmon from a major manufacturer. I remember this since at the end of the week it was in the news my cousin married one of the daughters of the MD of the company. Yes, they did refer to it in the speeches :) IIRC, this was because the canning seal failed. After heating, the cans were cooled with water which contained C.botulinum (or its spores). There were pinholes in the seal, and when the steam in the can condensed, the vacuum drew the contaminated water into the can. -- Jeff |
Kilner jars.
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Kilner jars.
On 02/09/2013 22:18, Martin wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 19:00:43 +0100, David Hill wrote: On 02/09/2013 15:44, Martin wrote: On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 12:16:38 +0100, David Hill wrote: I would use then judiciously, I remember my parent laughing that they bottled new potatoes, thought they would be lovely for Christmas. After a couple of months there we several very loud explosions, on investigation the potatoes has fermented and exploded. Took them a while to clean up the mess. Incidentally I remember mum preserving rings of apples by salting and drying, when soaked they made very acceptable apple pies! Mind you this was during the war, when she also preserved runner beans in a similar fashion. Remember, if you are going to try this, the salt then was different to the bulk of what you get today, it was either rock salt or sea salt without the additives that we now have. Which additives? http://www.british-salt.co.uk/Produc...iedVacuum.aspx Anti caking agent Sodium Ferrocyanide in very tiny and safe amounts http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166139 Possibly, but still causes the beans go slimy |
Kilner jars.
On 01/09/2013 14:29, Baz wrote:
I went to the car boot market this morning to get me spring cabbage plants and bought a box of 30ish 1 and 2 pint kilner jars for £3.50. Most of the seals are nacked, but no problem I can make some. I am going to do some beetroot, onions, tomatoes and some cucumbers (gerkins?). That will take 10 jars maximum. What else can I store in them? My auntie makes all the jam and marmalade until such times when she can't anymore. I can give them away, and I will, no problem, but I like the idea of preserving what I can. If I give them away they will be full, probably of beetroot or onions. Maybe tomatoes, seeing as how they have started to ripen by the minute. Baz It may be worth visiting this website http://www.kilnerjar.co.uk/ |
Kilner jars.
In article ,
Malcolm wrote: The danger with high-protein, non-acid foods, such as fish and meat is that mere boiling point is not enough to destroy Clostridium botulinum spores. If one then germinates, the toxin will build up, and the sealed food can then be lethal. Yes, it happens. This is scaremongering, based on nothing at all, it would seem. According to the NHS website, there were just 33 recorded cases of food-borne botulism in England and Wales in the 30 years from 1980 and 2010, and 26 of those were linked to a single outbreak in 1989 caused by contaminated hazelnut yoghurt. Sigh. And just how many people in the UK bottle meat, fish and other such high-protein, non-acid foods in Kilner jars? Almost everyone has better sense than to do that, because there are much better ways. Bottling low-protein, acid foods such as almost all fruit is and never has been a problem and accounts for the VAST majority of such bottling in the UK. The remainder is almost always low-protein, non-acid foods such as vegetables. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Kilner jars.
"Malcolm" wrote in message ... In article , Nick Maclaren writes In article , Malcolm wrote: The danger with high-protein, non-acid foods, such as fish and meat is that mere boiling point is not enough to destroy Clostridium botulinum spores. If one then germinates, the toxin will build up, and the sealed food can then be lethal. Yes, it happens. This is scaremongering, based on nothing at all, it would seem. According to the NHS website, there were just 33 recorded cases of food-borne botulism in England and Wales in the 30 years from 1980 and 2010, and 26 of those were linked to a single outbreak in 1989 caused by contaminated hazelnut yoghurt. Sigh. And just how many people in the UK bottle meat, fish and other such high-protein, non-acid foods in Kilner jars? Almost everyone has better sense than to do that, because there are much better ways. Clearly not, judging by this thread. I also note the absence of any evidence to back up your blatant scaremongering about botulism, including "it happens", which I note you have snipped, presumably so you can avoid having to respond to my request to demonstrate that it referred to Kilner jars. Bottling low-protein, acid foods such as almost all fruit is and never has been a problem and accounts for the VAST majority of such bottling in the UK. The remainder is almost always low-protein, non-acid foods such as vegetables. So why are you wittering on about virtually non-existent botulism? Are you deliberately trying to scare people for the hell of it? Or was it based on ignorance of the facts about botulism in the UK? -- Malcolm |
Kilner jars.
In article ,
Malcolm wrote: The danger with high-protein, non-acid foods, such as fish and meat is that mere boiling point is not enough to destroy Clostridium botulinum spores. If one then germinates, the toxin will build up, and the sealed food can then be lethal. Yes, it happens. This is scaremongering, based on nothing at all, it would seem. According to the NHS website, there were just 33 recorded cases of food-borne botulism in England and Wales in the 30 years from 1980 and 2010, and 26 of those were linked to a single outbreak in 1989 caused by contaminated hazelnut yoghurt. Sigh. And just how many people in the UK bottle meat, fish and other such high-protein, non-acid foods in Kilner jars? Almost everyone has better sense than to do that, because there are much better ways. Clearly not, judging by this thread. I also note the absence of any evidence to back up your blatant scaremongering about botulism, including "it happens", which I note you have snipped, presumably so you can avoid having to respond to my request to demonstrate that it referred to Kilner jars. You really do seem to be being deliberately foolish. I snipped that paragraph because it was not relevant. I never said that it happens in the UK, AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS that nobody or almost nobody bottles the sort of foods where it is likely. It is simply not a traditional UK mode for the preservation of such foods. We almost always pickle, cure or otherwise treat such foods, either instead or as well, and that prevents the issue. But it IS used in some other countries. It might have escaped you, but there are many serious risks that do not cause trouble because people simply avoid the prerequites for them. To claim that proves they aren't risks when the prerequisites are present is arrant stupidity, at best. There aren't any people killed by the UK's populations of crocodiles, for example, but that doesn't mean that they are safe to swim with. What I was doing was warning people against bottling HIGH-PROTEIN, NON-ACID FOODS SUCH AS MEAT AND FISH using only unpressurised boiling point. If you bother to look up the real scientific and medical references, you will see why that is. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Kilner jars.
Try this for an alternative.
Delicious, nutritious and cheap http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening...egetables.html No exploding jars if done correctly and yes, I have. Read what it has to say about botulism etc. I have never had any side affects, apart from over eating them ;-) It is what I will be doing with my gluts over the next few months. John |
Kilner jars.
Tom Gardner wrote:
Several decades ago several people were poisoned by botulism in canned salmon from a major manufacturer. I remember this since at the end of the week it was in the news my cousin married one of the daughters of the MD of the company. There was an incident in the U.S. some time ago with botulism and a few fatalities from canned mushroom soup....the processor had problems with the apparatus that monitors temperatures (required for commercial processing) during the canning cycle, and temperatures hadn't been high enough for long enough. BTW, I can tomatoes using a pressure canner (5 pounds/15 minutes), not for safety reasons, but because it takes a LOT less electrical energy to do than heating a big pot of water. Not to mention how long it takes to boil a big pot of water on one of those pretty "glass top" stove....erm...cookers. -- Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/4 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G |
Kilner jars.
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Kilner jars.
On 2013-09-03 16:13:38 +0000, Gary Woods said:
Tom Gardner wrote: Several decades ago several people were poisoned by botulism in canned salmon from a major manufacturer. I remember this since at the end of the week it was in the news my cousin married one of the daughters of the MD of the company. There was an incident in the U.S. some time ago with botulism and a few fatalities from canned mushroom soup....the processor had problems with the apparatus that monitors temperatures (required for commercial processing) during the canning cycle, and temperatures hadn't been high enough for long enough. BTW, I can tomatoes using a pressure canner (5 pounds/15 minutes), not for safety reasons, but because it takes a LOT less electrical energy to do than heating a big pot of water. Not to mention how long it takes to boil a big pot of water on one of those pretty "glass top" stove....erm...cookers. My grandmother (English, Co. Durham origin) used to talk of a stove, not a cooker. It was a gas stove, not (to her) a gas cooker. Was that unusual in UK 60 or so years ago? I really don't know. -- Sacha |
Kilner jars.
In message , sacha
writes On 2013-09-03 16:13:38 +0000, Gary Woods said: Tom Gardner wrote: Several decades ago several people were poisoned by botulism in canned salmon from a major manufacturer. I remember this since at the end of the week it was in the news my cousin married one of the daughters of the MD of the company. There was an incident in the U.S. some time ago with botulism and a few fatalities from canned mushroom soup....the processor had problems with the apparatus that monitors temperatures (required for commercial processing) during the canning cycle, and temperatures hadn't been high enough for long enough. BTW, I can tomatoes using a pressure canner (5 pounds/15 minutes), not for safety reasons, but because it takes a LOT less electrical energy to do than heating a big pot of water. Not to mention how long it takes to boil a big pot of water on one of those pretty "glass top" stove....erm...cookers. My grandmother (English, Co. Durham origin) used to talk of a stove, not a cooker. It was a gas stove, not (to her) a gas cooker. Was that unusual in UK 60 or so years ago? I really don't know. No, my mother (Buckinghamshire) too called it a stove. In fact I think they were marketed as "gas stoves" in those days. David -- David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
Kilner jars.
In article ,
sacha wrote: On 2013-09-03 16:13:38 +0000, Gary Woods said: BTW, I can tomatoes using a pressure canner (5 pounds/15 minutes), not for safety reasons, but because it takes a LOT less electrical energy to do than heating a big pot of water. Not to mention how long it takes to boil a big pot of water on one of those pretty "glass top" stove....erm...cookers. My grandmother (English, Co. Durham origin) used to talk of a stove, not a cooker. It was a gas stove, not (to her) a gas cooker. Was that unusual in UK 60 or so years ago? I really don't know. No. I always knew of them as stoves, and came from a different background. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Kilner jars.
In article ,
Malcolm wrote: The danger with high-protein, non-acid foods, such as fish and meat is that mere boiling point is not enough to destroy Clostridium botulinum spores. If one then germinates, the toxin will build up, and the sealed food can then be lethal. Yes, it happens. This is scaremongering, based on nothing at all, it would seem. According to the NHS website, there were just 33 recorded cases of food-borne botulism in England and Wales in the 30 years from 1980 and 2010, and 26 of those were linked to a single outbreak in 1989 caused by contaminated hazelnut yoghurt. Sigh. And just how many people in the UK bottle meat, fish and other such high-protein, non-acid foods in Kilner jars? Almost everyone has better sense than to do that, because there are much better ways. Clearly not, judging by this thread. I also note the absence of any evidence to back up your blatant scaremongering about botulism, including "it happens", which I note you have snipped, presumably so you can avoid having to respond to my request to demonstrate that it referred to Kilner jars. You really do seem to be being deliberately foolish. I snipped that paragraph because it was not relevant. I never said that it happens in the UK, Oh, what an enormous wriggle we see before us. You most certainly did not say that it didn't happen in the UK. Go back and read the context of that remark. I certainly agree that I did not say that it doesn't happen here. My paragraph stated above says what I meant to say, and is correct. Warning people that bottling fruit is safe, but higher temperatures are needed for some other foods is not scaremongering. Some people (and I suspect that Baz may be one) have enough nous to be interested in pushing the boundaries. Either you desperately need a remedial course in English comprehension or you are simply trolling. Or both, I suppose. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
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