OT Grammer question
 

On 16/10/2013 13:46, Martin wrote:
On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 11:30:21 +0100, David Hill
wrote:

Around £10,000 were stolen from a house
Or should it be
Around £10,000 was stolen from a house.

If you regard the money as individual notes then they "were" stolen but
if you regard it as a single unit of money then it "was" stolen.
It's niggling me.

Do you say ten thousand pounds or ten thousand pound?

were for the former, was for the latter.


I don't think so. In normal speech, the £10,000 is spoken as ten
thousand pounds and the correct (and as Tom said 'verbally 'elegant')
simple past tense would be 'was'.

In the same way, the past participle would be "£10,000 has been stolen",
as opposed to "£10,000 have been stolen".

If a pound was an actual 'thing' it would be different. "10,000
footballs were stolen", rather than "10,000 footballs" was stolen.

Or even 10,00 pounds of footballs were stolen, not was stolen.

As Spider said, it is "[a sum of] £10,000 pounds" that was stolen.

--
regards
andy

OT Grammer question
 

David Hill wrote:

Around £10,000 were stolen from a house
Or should it be
Around £10,000 was stolen from a house.

English or American version?

--
Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/4 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

OT Grammer question
 

"Malcolm" wrote in message
...

In article , David Hill
writes
On 16/10/2013 13:16, 'Mike' wrote:
"I think that its 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen."

I think that it's 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen.

I think that it's 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen but it
doesn't matter because the pound note is obsolete .

Not in Scotland it isn't, and you can have great fun with them in
English Chinese restaurants!

Phil

OT Grammer question
 

On 2013-10-16 12:29:59 +0100, Bob Hobden said:

"shazzbat" wrote


"Tom Gardner"wrote
David Hill wrote:
Around £10,000 were stolen from a house
Or should it be
Around £10,000 was stolen from a house.

If you regard the money as individual notes then they "were" stolen but
if you regard it as a single unit of money then it "was" stolen.
It's niggling me.

IMNSHO the sentence is referring to a single unit,
therefore "was" is correct. Besides, it "sounds"
more elegant. If, OTOH, you had written "£10,000
worth of notes" then "were" would be correct.

GrammAr and spulling are they're to help people communicate
and understand each other :) Beyond that it is a question of
style and elegance.

And no, I'm not prepared to defend that statement.

You don't need to. It is self-evident.

While we are on this thread when did it become "Bored of this...."
instead of "bored with this....". I've even seen it written in adverts
lately.

Now for a discussion, should it be "Can I help you" or "May I help you"
when you answer the phone etc? :-)

May I, because you don't know if you Can until they tell you what their
enquiry is. ;-)
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

OT Grammer question
 

On 16/10/2013 15:15, Martin wrote:
On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 14:41:20 +0100, News
wrote:

On 16/10/2013 13:46, Martin wrote:
On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 11:30:21 +0100, David Hill
wrote:

Around £10,000 were stolen from a house
Or should it be
Around £10,000 was stolen from a house.

If you regard the money as individual notes then they "were" stolen but
if you regard it as a single unit of money then it "was" stolen.
It's niggling me.

Do you say ten thousand pounds or ten thousand pound?

were for the former, was for the latter.


I don't think so. In normal speech, the £10,000 is spoken as ten
thousand pounds and the correct (and as Tom said 'verbally 'elegant')
simple past tense would be 'was'.

In the same way, the past participle would be "£10,000 has been stolen",
as opposed to "£10,000 have been stolen".

If a pound was an actual 'thing' it would be different.

A pound is an actual thing. It might not seem much but ... :-)

"10,000
footballs were stolen", rather than "10,000 footballs" was stolen.

Or even 10,00 pounds of footballs were stolen, not was stolen.

As Spider said, it is "[a sum of] £10,000 pounds" that was stolen.

£10,000 pounds without the implicit "a sum of" is plural.

Only in a strict interpretation of what is actually written - English is
often rather ambiguous in native usage with traps for the unwary.

£10,000 [of money] were stolen.

I think you will find both forms in common usage in the UK with a slight
preference for was stolen. Although in certain Lancashire dialects
"were" is used when "was" would be grammatically correct.

It were good. (sic) as an example.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

OT Grammer question
 

"Phil Gurr" wrote in news:bc7mpiF7tp9U1
@mid.individual.net:


"Malcolm" wrote in message
...

In article , David Hill
writes
On 16/10/2013 13:16, 'Mike' wrote:
"I think that its 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen."

I think that it's 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen.

I think that it's 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen but it
doesn't matter because the pound note is obsolete .

Not in Scotland it isn't, and you can have great fun with them in
English Chinese restaurants!

Phil




:-)

OT Grammer question
 

On 16/10/2013 12:29, Bob Hobden wrote:
"shazzbat" wrote


"Tom Gardner"wrote
David Hill wrote:
Around £10,000 were stolen from a house
Or should it be
Around £10,000 was stolen from a house.

If you regard the money as individual notes then they "were" stolen
but if you regard it as a single unit of money then it "was" stolen.
It's niggling me.

IMNSHO the sentence is referring to a single unit,
therefore "was" is correct. Besides, it "sounds"
more elegant. If, OTOH, you had written "£10,000
worth of notes" then "were" would be correct.

GrammAr and spulling are they're to help people communicate
and understand each other :) Beyond that it is a question of
style and elegance.

And no, I'm not prepared to defend that statement.

You don't need to. It is self-evident.

While we are on this thread when did it become "Bored of this...."
instead of "bored with this....". I've even seen it written in adverts
lately.

Now for a discussion, should it be "Can I help you" or "May I help you"
when you answer the phone etc? :-)



Regarding the latter, it should be "can I help you?" or even "How can I
help you?" "May" is permissive and your caller is already allowing you
to help them, so it only remains to satisfy *if* you can help them.

Occasionally, when wishing to help someone but not cause offence, I
might say "May I help you?" or "Will you let me help you with ..". In
that instance, I have already decided that I *can* help, but wish to be
allowed to help.

--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

OT Grammer question
 

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:

£10,000 [of money] were stolen.

I think you will find both forms in common usage in the UK ...

Incredible. No you wouldn't, because it's purely and simply wrong! In
common usage, any British born-and-bred person when faced with the words
"ten thousand pounds" would think instantly in terms of the abstract
noun of "money", not in terms the concrete noun, "notes".


Your point...
Although in certain Lancashire dialects
"were" is used when "was" would be grammatically correct.

That's not "grammatically correct": that's dialect. (Also common in
Yorkshire, where I come from.) And it's not the word "were" as in the
plural form of "was", but "wer'" as in the dialect way of saying "was"
(more often heard as "wo'" in the West Riding, and "wer'" elsewhere in
this belt of the country.

The language is going to hell, thanks to generations of young
illiterates who are now actually working, and (e.g.) writing newspaper
articles, having been brought up with an education of dubious values,
and receiving a "further" education in Facebook, Twitter, and the
internet in general, from their fellow illiterates.

If ever you want to know "the" answer to a question about English
Grammar, refer to "Modern English Usage" by H.W. Fowler, revised by Sir
Ernest Gowers in 1965 [sic]. It's worth its weight in gold (it weighs a
modest 705g, or 1lb 9oz if you prefer).

Yes, the English language evolves as the decades go by, but not as fast
as some people (the illiterate masses) would have you believe. Not even
as fast as the Big Dictionaries would have you believe either: people
like Collins and the OED now make regular press releases about "new
words" not because these have "entered the language" (because they'll
have gone again in a few years) but because they want to sell more
dictionaries (or subscriptions to their effing websites).

Thank you David, for giving me that opportunity! Nah then: wheer did ah
put me pipe? It wer' round ere some wheer....

J.

OT Grammer question
 

On 16/10/2013 13:00, Baz wrote:
David Hill wrote in news:bc785rF4rhaU1
@mid.individual.net:

Around £10,000 were stolen from a house
Or should it be
Around £10,000 was stolen from a house.

If you regard the money as individual notes then they "were" stolen but
if you regard it as a single unit of money then it "was" stolen.
It's niggling me.


Yes thats a poser. I think you are right.
I think that its 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen.
Thats not the case, £10,000 WAS stolen.

12 bottles of vinegar were stolen so the theives could put IT on their
chips.
A case of 12 bottles of vinegar WAS stolen so the theives could put THEM on
their chips. If it was IT, and not THEM, surely the theives would be
putting the case, not the bottle onto their chips.
WAS it stolen, or WERE they stolen, was it THEM (or those) or IT that was
stolen?

Even more confusing. For me at least. That is my stumbling block.

Baz




Well, I would simply say "12 bottles of vinegar were stolen so the
thieves could put *some* on their chips". Greedy blighters!
Actually, no thief would steal 12 bottles when one would do, so we can
only assume it was a case of 12, immediately making it singular and,
presumably, resolving your problem.

--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

OT Grammer question
 

On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 12:45:18 +0100, David Hill
wrote:

On 16/10/2013 12:29, Bob Hobden wrote:
"shazzbat" wrote


"Tom Gardner"wrote
David Hill wrote:
Around £10,000 were stolen from a house
Or should it be
Around £10,000 was stolen from a house.

If you regard the money as individual notes then they "were" stolen
but if you regard it as a single unit of money then it "was" stolen.
It's niggling me.

IMNSHO the sentence is referring to a single unit,
therefore "was" is correct. Besides, it "sounds"
more elegant. If, OTOH, you had written "£10,000
worth of notes" then "were" would be correct.

GrammAr and spulling are they're to help people communicate
and understand each other :) Beyond that it is a question of
style and elegance.

And no, I'm not prepared to defend that statement.

You don't need to. It is self-evident.

While we are on this thread when did it become "Bored of this...."
instead of "bored with this....". I've even seen it written in adverts
lately.

Now for a discussion, should it be "Can I help you" or "May I help you"
when you answer the phone etc? :-)

Can I help you is asking the question "Am I able to help you"
whilst
May I help you is asking "Do you wish me to help you"

My present bug bear is "For Free"
Free means "for nothing" so for for nothing makes no sense.

David, you answered your own question about the money. I agree with
you.
I thought I was alone in fuming about "For free".

Another bugbear is "I would of", "He should of" etc which comes from
lazy speaking.

Oh please bring back Grammar schools.

Now how many of you say "somethink" and "anythink"
or "I am sat" or "I am stood". They've become more common than the
correct phrases.
Sorry if I've upset anyone. You've hit on my favourite subject, apart
from gadening!!!

Pam in Bristol

OT Grammer question
 

On 16/10/2013 13:16, 'Mike' wrote:

"I think that its 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen."

I think that it's 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen.

I think that it's 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen but it
doesn't matter because the pound note is obsolete .




Which immediately makes your first question ridiculous, since you're
obviously such a pedant that spelling and grammar would be important to you.


---------------------------------------------------------------
www.rneba.org.uk



"Baz" wrote in message ...

David Hill wrote in news:bc785rF4rhaU1
@mid.individual.net:

Around £10,000 were stolen from a house
Or should it be
Around £10,000 was stolen from a house.

If you regard the money as individual notes then they "were" stolen but
if you regard it as a single unit of money then it "was" stolen.
It's niggling me.


Yes thats a poser. I think you are right.
I think that its 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen.
Thats not the case, £10,000 WAS stolen.

12 bottles of vinegar were stolen so the theives could put IT on their
chips.
A case of 12 bottles of vinegar WAS stolen so the theives could put THEM on
their chips. If it was IT, and not THEM, surely the theives would be
putting the case, not the bottle onto their chips.
WAS it stolen, or WERE they stolen, was it THEM (or those) or IT that was
stolen?

Even more confusing. For me at least. That is my stumbling block.

Baz





--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

OT Grammer question
 

Oh dear. Speakers set too high for Spider.

Kindest regards

Mike

---------------------------------------------------------------
www.rneba.org.uk




"Spider" wrote in message ...

On 16/10/2013 13:16, 'Mike' wrote:

"I think that its 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen."

I think that it's 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen.

I think that it's 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen but it
doesn't matter because the pound note is obsolete .




Which immediately makes your first question ridiculous, since you're
obviously such a pedant that spelling and grammar would be important to you.


---------------------------------------------------------------
www.rneba.org.uk



"Baz" wrote in message ...

David Hill wrote in news:bc785rF4rhaU1
@mid.individual.net:

Around £10,000 were stolen from a house
Or should it be
Around £10,000 was stolen from a house.

If you regard the money as individual notes then they "were" stolen but
if you regard it as a single unit of money then it "was" stolen.
It's niggling me.


Yes thats a poser. I think you are right.
I think that its 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen.
Thats not the case, £10,000 WAS stolen.

12 bottles of vinegar were stolen so the theives could put IT on their
chips.
A case of 12 bottles of vinegar WAS stolen so the theives could put THEM
on
their chips. If it was IT, and not THEM, surely the theives would be
putting the case, not the bottle onto their chips.
WAS it stolen, or WERE they stolen, was it THEM (or those) or IT that was
stolen?

Even more confusing. For me at least. That is my stumbling block.

Baz





--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

OT Grammer question
 

On 16/10/2013 15:15, Martin wrote:
On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 14:41:20 +0100, News
wrote:

On 16/10/2013 13:46, Martin wrote:
On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 11:30:21 +0100, David Hill
wrote:

Around £10,000 were stolen from a house
Or should it be
Around £10,000 was stolen from a house.

If you regard the money as individual notes then they "were" stolen but
if you regard it as a single unit of money then it "was" stolen.
It's niggling me.

Do you say ten thousand pounds or ten thousand pound?

were for the former, was for the latter.


I don't think so. In normal speech, the £10,000 is spoken as ten
thousand pounds and the correct (and as Tom said 'verbally 'elegant')
simple past tense would be 'was'.

In the same way, the past participle would be "£10,000 has been stolen",
as opposed to "£10,000 have been stolen".

If a pound was an actual 'thing' it would be different.

A pound is an actual thing. It might not seem much but ... :-)

"10,000
footballs were stolen", rather than "10,000 footballs" was stolen.

Or even 10,00 pounds of footballs were stolen, not was stolen.

As Spider said, it is "[a sum of] £10,000 pounds" that was stolen.

£10,000 pounds without the implicit "a sum of" is plural.

£10,000 [of money] were stolen.




But we're talking about grammar, Martin. Surely the proper sentence
should be "A sum of, etc."; therefore, it is singular.

--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

OT Grammer question
 

On 16/10/2013 14:51, Gary Woods wrote:
David Hill wrote:

Around £10,000 were stolen from a house
Or should it be
Around £10,000 was stolen from a house.

English or American version?




English, no doubt!;~). How does the American version differ, if it does?

--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

OT Grammer question
 

Top posting because sooooooooo many people fail to observe the suggestion
that dross should be snipped. You've been down the thread once to read what
was said, why cover the whole lot again?

Kindest regards

Mike

(I do accept that posters on here will have a poke at me at every
opportunity and it gives friends of mine who don't bother to break into the
clique a damn good laugh. Please carry on. Hope I have not set the speakers
too high for you to)

---------------------------------------------------------------
www.rneba.org.uk



"Malcolm" wrote in message ...


In article , 'Mike'
writes


"Malcolm" wrote in message ...


In article , David Hill
writes
On 16/10/2013 13:16, 'Mike' wrote:
"I think that its 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen."

I think that it's 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen.

I think that it's 10,000 one pound notes notes WERE stolen but it
doesn't matter because the pound note is obsolete .

Stop blathering
No one said £1.00 notes, you can have £10,000 in notes be they £5.00
£10.00 or what ever denomination.
But you could have a numismatists or a notaphilist whose collection had
10,000 £1.00 notes

In the spirit of being helpful, I fear I can't resist pointing out,
which no-one else seems to have done, that your subject line contains a
spelling error :-)

-------------------------------------
Top posting brought down to correct (!) position at the bottom.


Malcolm, the very first posting in the thread ....

Not specifically pointed out.

To what degree do Spelling and Grammar matter? ;-)

Hardly at all, provided the meaning is clear and, above all,
unambiguous.

Neither are heinous crimes, unlike top-posting in a thread!

--
Malcolm