On 2013-11-06 21:14:26 +0000, Jake said:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 17:50:07 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

I'm concerned for the future of this group

I've pruned the rest as you can read it in the original post and my
reply's long enough on its own

The truth is often unpalatable. Usenet is changing. URG is dying.
There is no new blood coming in to replace those who move on. In its
death throes, URG has changed from a gardening group to a less
focused, and predominantly male, social gathering.

Sacha refers to the reduction in posts. I archive the group each
month; I used to do it more frequently. The simple volume of posts per
month, measured by file size, has decreased by about 65% in the last
year. I also notice the all too plain disappearance of former regulars
and the less frequent posts of others.

Mention the weather and we're on (again) about how reliable any
forecast isn't. Spuds won't cook properly because of some nuance in
Internet Explorer which means the Firefox won't burn properly and so
the non-Chrome pan won't warm up during the Opera interval. We
exchange witticisms, thoughts about life, the world etc., with some
loose connection to gardening that often ends with the fourth post in
a thread. And at some point in a long thread someone won't like
someone else and we have a public exchange of "views".

We have the occasional bit of interest with the "guess the plant"
posts, unless incursion of advertisements which pay for the free photo
hosting sites diverts the discussion (again).

Then some innocent arrives from GardenBanter, survives the inevitable
discussion about what WE are (does Crowe still interject to say what a
bunch of nasties we are and that he's off on another cruise soon?),
might get an answer to a question and then disappears into a hole in
the rhubarb patch forever.

Then there are those who come other than through GardenBanter. The
difference is that they don't disappear permanently once their
question is answered; they drink wine on the patio for a few months
while thinking up a new question and return here. But much else is
simply repetitive.

Twitter is the only social media entity that I bother with but that
can, if used carefully, be productive. I would be lying if I said that
I do not find Twitter discussions about gardening issues far more
focused, interesting and productive than those in URG. I've never met
an URGler but have met quite a few people via Twitter; some I now meet
with regularly in both a gardening context and at more general social
events.

And there ARE good gardening blogs/web sites. Start with somewhere
like http://www.thinkingardens.co.uk where the discussion,
surprisingly about gardening topics, is active and interesting. Though
probably you won't like the layout or something.

But after many happy years of Usenet, URG is now the only group I
follow. And I too will ask myself the question "Is it worth it?" when
my annual Usenet provider account is due for renewal. The honest
answer is "Probably not."

Applause and a sad endorsement.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 06/11/2013 23:43, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-11-06 21:14:26 +0000, Jake said:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 17:50:07 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

I'm concerned for the future of this group

Come on Sacha, we know this topic is just a plant to get something moving.

On 2013-11-07 09:32:19 +0000, David Hill said:

On 06/11/2013 23:43, Sacha wrote:
On 2013-11-06 21:14:26 +0000, Jake said:

On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 17:50:07 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

I'm concerned for the future of this group

Come on Sacha, we know this topic is just a plant to get something moving.

We need to get to the root of the matter.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 07/11/2013 00:43, Sacha wrote:


And there ARE good gardening blogs/web sites. Start with somewhere
like http://www.thinkingardens.co.uk where the discussion,
surprisingly about gardening topics, is active and interesting. Though
probably you won't like the layout or something.


I just took a look at that site but it doesn't appear to actually be
open to posts from the general public; unless there is some hidden
submission process followed by editorial review prior to publishing.
Such a site, while interesting, does not appear to be a place for having
an easy dialogue between gardeners.

--
David in Normandy.

On 2013-11-07 10:33:42 +0000, David in Normandy said:

On 07/11/2013 00:43, Sacha wrote:


And there ARE good gardening blogs/web sites. Start with somewhere
like http://www.thinkingardens.co.uk where the discussion,
surprisingly about gardening topics, is active and interesting. Though
probably you won't like the layout or something.


I just took a look at that site but it doesn't appear to actually be
open to posts from the general public; unless there is some hidden
submission process followed by editorial review prior to publishing.
Such a site, while interesting, does not appear to be a place for
having an easy dialogue between gardeners.

You have to register, afair. But I wasn't actually suggesting replacing
urg with such a site. I was intending to commend gardening blogs to
urglers so as to broaden the base for discussions here. It isn't my
intention to see urg close down in favour of a blog type format - quite
the contrary! I suppose what has struck me rather forcibly is that,
despite most newspapers carrying a weekly gardening column, or the many
blogs available, we so rarely take any of those subjects or themes and
talk about them here. I may be quite alone in this but my own feeling
is that our focus is narrow and repetitive. Having joined urg in 1997,
I am beginning to feel that there are only so many years in which one
can actually enjoy discussions about vegetables not growing, gluts of
plums and attacks of lily beetle, along with why lawn mowers won't
start. All these are certainly subjects for discussion but it is simply
my view that we've got rather stuck in that rut! Thank you for
considering this intelligently and helpfully, David. The matter is
surely worthy of some consideration or discussion, I think.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

"Jake" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 12:25:10 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

On 2013-11-07 10:33:42 +0000, David in Normandy said:

On 07/11/2013 00:43, Sacha wrote:


And there ARE good gardening blogs/web sites. Start with somewhere
like http://www.thinkingardens.co.uk where the discussion,
surprisingly about gardening topics, is active and interesting. Though
probably you won't like the layout or something.


I just took a look at that site but it doesn't appear to actually be
open to posts from the general public; unless there is some hidden
submission process followed by editorial review prior to publishing.
Such a site, while interesting, does not appear to be a place for
having an easy dialogue between gardeners.

You have to register, afair.

Slight correction - initial posts are by a mix of invitation or
submission for acceptance and, granted, they will not be from the
general public. However there is no need to register to comment on any
article - the site operates a pro-active moderation system so anyone
can submit a comment and a fair number of what I suppose are "general
public" - me for example - do participate. Some articles are more down
to earth than others.

That is the case with most blogs. As David (Rance) has pointed out, it
is only places like GardenBanter that offer any real "open discussion"
alternative and, of course, GB actually requires registration. One
possible plus point of this is that if you are a GB "member" reading a
post by someone, you can look up their profile to find a bit more
about them. How often have we needed to ask someone where they live,
how big's the garden, which direction and all that.

I will readily admit that if I put GardenBanter to one side there is
no "one place" replacement for URG. I'm not going to speculate on if
or how long GardenBanter would survive if it was not for URGlers
providing the GB members with the answers to their questions! OTOH,
without new blood URG won't survive and the million dollar question is
how we breathe life into the group.

We've enticed one lurker into the open. Any more out there? Please say
hello. We only really bite each other.

I lurk but I don't have experience and having read the comments in this
thread, it has been stated that people without experience are not welcome,
so I think it better I continue to lurk.


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

Large amount snipped




We've enticed one lurker into the open. Any more out there? Please say
hello. We only really bite each other.

I lurk but I don't have experience and having read the comments in this
thread, it has been stated that people without experience are not
welcome, so I think it better I continue to lurk.

Now that would be a shame.


Been lurking for a long time now, just enjoying the gentle ebb and flow
of gardening topics, humour and general good feelings.

I'm what they call a silver surfer, and a silvered haired gardener who
sees the sense of "silly questions" I've asked a few in my time, and
learned a great deal from having them answered, but more importantly
expanded upon.

If anyone does not like the topic then why not feel free to introduce a
more weighty discussion, this is what groups are for surely.

Just my twopence worth.

On 2013-11-07 14:27:30 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Jake" wrote in message
...
snip

We've enticed one lurker into the open. Any more out there? Please say
hello. We only really bite each other.

I lurk but I don't have experience and having read the comments in
this thread, it has been stated that people without experience are not
welcome, so I think it better I continue to lurk.

I haven't seen that statement but it's certainly not the case at all.
We've had lots of new gardeners coming to urg, often to ask one
question, then go away. But they rarely go empty-handed, so to speak!
One or two people can be a bit snarky with newcomers or those posting
through Gardenbanter but they're not the normal urgler, ime. I would
say that the majority of those of us who are left are on the helpful
and welcoming side, or so I would hope! It's often been stated here
that there's no such thing as a silly question but there may be a few
daft answers!
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 14:27:30 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Jake" wrote in message
...
snip

We've enticed one lurker into the open. Any more out there? Please say
hello. We only really bite each other.

I lurk but I don't have experience and having read the comments in this
thread, it has been stated that people without experience are not
welcome, so I think it better I continue to lurk.

I haven't seen that statement but it's certainly not the case at all.
We've had lots of new gardeners coming to urg, often to ask one question,
then go away. But they rarely go empty-handed, so to speak! One or two
people can be a bit snarky with newcomers or those posting through
Gardenbanter but they're not the normal urgler, ime. I would say that the
majority of those of us who are left are on the helpful and welcoming
side, or so I would hope! It's often been stated here that there's no
such thing as a silly question but there may be a few daft answers!

I rarely ask a question but when I have, people have been kind enough to
help. I was just concerned in this thread to read that the regulars are fed
up with new people asking what are (to them) simple questions but to a
newby things they really need to know if they are to learn. Especially if
several new people ask the same questions as they arrive. If you want to
make new people welcome, you are going to get a lot of those simple
questions from beginners. I suspect that is what is happening with folk
from that Banter group. Beginners cannot possibly join in with a discussion
which is beyond their ken. (and which is one reason I lurk). As someone
commented:

"You know that most of the older members know all there is to know about
gardening and have no interest in bringing in youngsters who are going
to ask dam fool questions and who may one day know more than we do."

Well by no means are all the inexperienced people who post asking questions
youngsters! Especially me!!


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 2013-11-07 16:31:36 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 14:27:30 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Jake" wrote in message
...
snip

We've enticed one lurker into the open. Any more out there? Please say
hello. We only really bite each other.

I lurk but I don't have experience and having read the comments in
this thread, it has been stated that people without experience are not
welcome, so I think it better I continue to lurk.

I haven't seen that statement but it's certainly not the case at all.
We've had lots of new gardeners coming to urg, often to ask one
question, then go away. But they rarely go empty-handed, so to speak!
One or two people can be a bit snarky with newcomers or those posting
through Gardenbanter but they're not the normal urgler, ime. I would
say that the majority of those of us who are left are on the helpful
and welcoming side, or so I would hope! It's often been stated here
that there's no such thing as a silly question but there may be a few
daft answers!

I rarely ask a question but when I have, people have been kind enough
to help. I was just concerned in this thread to read that the regulars
are fed up with new people asking what are (to them) simple questions
but to a newby things they really need to know if they are to learn.
Especially if several new people ask the same questions as they arrive.
If you want to make new people welcome, you are going to get a lot
of those simple questions from beginners. I suspect that is what is
happening with folk from that Banter group. Beginners cannot possibly
join in with a discussion which is beyond their ken. (and which is one
reason I lurk). As someone commented:

"You know that most of the older members know all there is to know about
gardening and have no interest in bringing in youngsters who are going
to ask dam fool questions and who may one day know more than we do."

Well by no means are all the inexperienced people who post asking
questions youngsters! Especially me!!

Oh, I see. I think, knowing that poster, it was a joke about the few
who are not very welcoming, versus the many who are! Ime, most urglers
answer repetitive questions with patience and are usually anxious to
help and advise. Personally, sometimes I find that posts from people
new to gardening are more interesting. They can present a challenge in
terms of helping with design questions, or how to use a garden and
finally, what to plant in it.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On 07/11/2013 16:31, Ophelia wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-11-07 14:27:30 +0000, Ophelia said:

"Jake" wrote in message
...
snip

We've enticed one lurker into the open. Any more out there? Please say
hello. We only really bite each other.

I lurk but I don't have experience and having read the comments in
this thread, it has been stated that people without experience are
not welcome, so I think it better I continue to lurk.

I haven't seen that statement but it's certainly not the case at all.
We've had lots of new gardeners coming to urg, often to ask one
question, then go away. But they rarely go empty-handed, so to speak!
One or two people can be a bit snarky with newcomers or those posting
through Gardenbanter but they're not the normal urgler, ime. I would
say that the majority of those of us who are left are on the helpful
and welcoming side, or so I would hope! It's often been stated here
that there's no such thing as a silly question but there may be a few
daft answers!

I rarely ask a question but when I have, people have been kind enough to
help. I was just concerned in this thread to read that the regulars are
fed up with new people asking what are (to them) simple questions but
to a newby things they really need to know if they are to learn.
Especially if several new people ask the same questions as they
arrive. If you want to make new people welcome, you are going to get
a lot of those simple questions from beginners. I suspect that is what
is happening with folk from that Banter group. Beginners cannot
possibly join in with a discussion which is beyond their ken. (and which
is one reason I lurk). As someone commented:

"You know that most of the older members know all there is to know about
gardening and have no interest in bringing in youngsters who are going
to ask dam fool questions and who may one day know more than we do."

Well by no means are all the inexperienced people who post asking
questions youngsters! Especially me!!


That comment was mine and was Sarcastic, A genuine problem is always
welcome as far as I am concerned, or a question that has given
conflicting answers.
But I don't have time for people who ask a question that they can look
up on google but would rather have someone else look it up for them.
They remind me of the person who called in one night at around 9.30pm
when I was making up the flowers for a wedding the next morning,
"I just wanted to ask you how I should plant these azaleas I bought in
Woolworth s today"
I told them to go back to Woollies and ask,
David @ a still almost precipitation free side of Swansea Bay.