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Anthracnose on my vines!
Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have
they been banned by the EU? For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on my vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that sulphur treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy. David -- David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
Anthracnose on my vines!
On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote:
Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have they been banned by the EU? For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on my vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that sulphur treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy. David Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use. Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you use?), and has been replaced with Bayer's "Fruit & Vegetable Disease Control". See https://secure.pesticides.gov.uk/garden/getfullproduct.asp?productid=31488&pageno= If you want to check whether a product is approved or not for home use, you can search he https://secure.pesticides.gov.uk/garden/prodsearch.asp I wouldn't bother in future because all products will eventually be removed. Even after Brexit, St Gove of the Environment will see the shelves emptied of pesticides. -- Jeff |
Anthracnose on my vines!
In message , Jeff Layman
writes On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote: Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have they been banned by the EU? For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on my vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that sulphur treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy. David Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use. But I always used Dithane which is 70% Mancozeb (according to the empty packet I have here). Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you use?), Bordeaux Mixture is still readily available here in France. If you want to check whether a product is approved or not for home use, you can search he https://secure.pesticides.gov.uk/garden/prodsearch.asp Thanks. I'll try that. David -- David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
Anthracnose on my vines!
On 21/05/18 20:54, David Rance wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman writes On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote: Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have they been banned by the EU? For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on my vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that sulphur treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy. David Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use. But I always used Dithane which is 70% Mancozeb (according to the empty packet I have here). Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you use?), Bordeaux Mixture is still readily available here in France. I forgot that you were in France. Of course, the French have always interpreted EU law to suit themselves. I think you will find that Bordeaux Mixture is not approved in the EU for *amateur* use. But it still may be for professional growers, and I understand that there are a few of those growing vines in France. When you say "readily available", do you mean that in the sense of what we would call a garden centre (or maybe supermarket) here, or is it an agricultural merchant selling in larger quantities? If you want to check whether a product is approved or not for home use, you can search he https://secure.pesticides.gov.uk/garden/prodsearch.asp Thanks. I'll try that. IIRC there are additional databases you can search for approved products/actives for professional growers. -- Jeff |
Anthracnose on my vines!
In message , Jeff Layman
writes On 21/05/18 20:54, David Rance wrote: In message , Jeff Layman writes On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote: Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have they been banned by the EU? For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on my vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that sulphur treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy. David Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use. But I always used Dithane which is 70% Mancozeb (according to the empty packet I have here). Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you use?), Bordeaux Mixture is still readily available here in France. I forgot that you were in France. Of course, the French have always interpreted EU law to suit themselves. I think you will find that Bordeaux Mixture is not approved in the EU for *amateur* use. But it still may be for professional growers, and I understand that there are a few of those growing vines in France. Yes, it has been banned but there was such an uproar from vine growers that the last I heard was that they were going to rethink the ban. I wouldn't be surprised if the same weren't true in Germany. I can well remember staying in a wine area on the Mosel some years ago where they had alerts for when mildews were about to strike and a light plane would go back and forth along the banks of the river spraying Bordeaux Mixture. Having suffered peronospora (downy mildew) myself on my tiny, tiny vineyard I can testify to its destructive power where, if not treated, one loses the whole crop. I'm in Normandy which is not a wine growing area and so it was several years before peronospora struck here. But if I were living in a wine growing area I could be prosecuted for *not* spraying. When you say "readily available", do you mean that in the sense of what we would call a garden centre (or maybe supermarket) here, or is it an agricultural merchant selling in larger quantities? Both! However, I'm now stuck with another disease which threatens my whole crop and I have nothing left with which to fight it. Can you suggest a substitute? In case I've misdiagnosed, here is a photo of an affected leaf: http://www.rance.org.uk/chameau/anthracnose.jpg David -- David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
Anthracnose on my vines!
On 22/05/18 08:42, David Rance wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman writes On 21/05/18 20:54, David Rance wrote: In message , Jeff Layman writes On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote: Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have they been banned by the EU? For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on my vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that sulphur treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy. David Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use. But I always used Dithane which is 70% Mancozeb (according to the empty packet I have here). Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you use?), Bordeaux Mixture is still readily available here in France. I forgot that you were in France. Of course, the French have always interpreted EU law to suit themselves. I think you will find that Bordeaux Mixture is not approved in the EU for *amateur* use. But it still may be for professional growers, and I understand that there are a few of those growing vines in France. Yes, it has been banned but there was such an uproar from vine growers that the last I heard was that they were going to rethink the ban. I wouldn't be surprised if the same weren't true in Germany. I can well remember staying in a wine area on the Mosel some years ago where they had alerts for when mildews were about to strike and a light plane would go back and forth along the banks of the river spraying Bordeaux Mixture. Having suffered peronospora (downy mildew) myself on my tiny, tiny vineyard I can testify to its destructive power where, if not treated, one loses the whole crop. I'm in Normandy which is not a wine growing area and so it was several years before peronospora struck here. But if I were living in a wine growing area I could be prosecuted for *not* spraying. When you say "readily available", do you mean that in the sense of what we would call a garden centre (or maybe supermarket) here, or is it an agricultural merchant selling in larger quantities? Both! However, I'm now stuck with another disease which threatens my whole crop and I have nothing left with which to fight it. Can you suggest a substitute? In case I've misdiagnosed, here is a photo of an affected leaf: http://www.rance.org.uk/chameau/anthracnose.jpg It does look like it, unfortunately. I spent some time looking up the situation regarding Bordeaux Mixture in the EU, and it is confusing to say the least! I came across this newspaper article which goes some way to explaining the confusion: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/farming/18th-century-pesticide-survives-for-another-year-827084.html The last few paragraphs sum up an EU "fudge" which seems only too common with regard to chemical treatments. Mind you, I am a bit surprised to see that of the two member states which voted against reapproval, one of them was France! If you search at that link I gave you for fungicides (dropdown in bottom box) you will find quite a few hits, but unfortunately they are all for use on ornamental plants, not those with an edible crop (other than the Bayer copper oxychloride product). Of course, what you do with the product once you have it is another thing entirely. -- Jeff |
Anthracnose on my vines!
In message , Jeff Layman
writes On 22/05/18 08:42, David Rance wrote: In message , Jeff Layman writes On 21/05/18 20:54, David Rance wrote: In message , Jeff Layman writes On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote: Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have they been banned by the EU? For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on my vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that sulphur treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy. David Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use. But I always used Dithane which is 70% Mancozeb (according to the empty packet I have here). Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you use?), Bordeaux Mixture is still readily available here in France. I forgot that you were in France. Of course, the French have always interpreted EU law to suit themselves. I think you will find that Bordeaux Mixture is not approved in the EU for *amateur* use. But it still may be for professional growers, and I understand that there are a few of those growing vines in France. Yes, it has been banned but there was such an uproar from vine growers that the last I heard was that they were going to rethink the ban. I wouldn't be surprised if the same weren't true in Germany. I can well remember staying in a wine area on the Mosel some years ago where they had alerts for when mildews were about to strike and a light plane would go back and forth along the banks of the river spraying Bordeaux Mixture. Having suffered peronospora (downy mildew) myself on my tiny, tiny vineyard I can testify to its destructive power where, if not treated, one loses the whole crop. I'm in Normandy which is not a wine growing area and so it was several years before peronospora struck here. But if I were living in a wine growing area I could be prosecuted for *not* spraying. When you say "readily available", do you mean that in the sense of what we would call a garden centre (or maybe supermarket) here, or is it an agricultural merchant selling in larger quantities? Both! However, I'm now stuck with another disease which threatens my whole crop and I have nothing left with which to fight it. Can you suggest a substitute? In case I've misdiagnosed, here is a photo of an affected leaf: http://www.rance.org.uk/chameau/anthracnose.jpg It does look like it, unfortunately. I spent some time looking up the situation regarding Bordeaux Mixture in the EU, and it is confusing to say the least! I came across this newspaper article which goes some way to explaining the confusion: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...entury-pestici de-survives-for-another-year-827084.html The last few paragraphs sum up an EU "fudge" which seems only too common with regard to chemical treatments. Mind you, I am a bit surprised to see that of the two member states which voted against reapproval, one of them was France! Interesting article. I'd heard that they were getting around the ban but didn't know the details. Can't understand France not voting for reapproval. I wonder what their reasons were. After all their wine exports will suffer if they can't control blight on their vines. If you search at that link I gave you for fungicides (dropdown in bottom box) you will find quite a few hits, but unfortunately they are all for use on ornamental plants, not those with an edible crop (other than the Bayer copper oxychloride product). Of course, what you do with the product once you have it is another thing entirely. Of course! ;-) I have to return to the UK tomorrow so I have a month now to do some research before my next visit. David -- David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
Anthracnose on my vines!
On 22/05/2018 22:23, David Rance wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman writes On 22/05/18 08:42, David Rance wrote: In message , Jeff Layman writes On 21/05/18 20:54, David Rance wrote: In message , Jeff Layman writes On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote: Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have they been banned by the EU? Â*Â* For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on my vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that sulphur treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy. Â*Â* David Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use. Â* But I always used Dithane which is 70% Mancozeb (according to the empty packet I have here). Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you use?), Â* Bordeaux Mixture is still readily available here in France. I forgot that you were in France. Of course, the French have always interpreted EU law to suit themselves. I think you will find that Bordeaux Mixture is not approved in the EU for *amateur* use. But it still may be for professional growers, and I understand that there are a few of those growing vines in France. Â*Yes, it has been banned but there was such an uproar from vine growers that the last I heard was that they were going to rethink the ban. I wouldn't be surprised if the same weren't true in Germany. I can well remember staying in a wine area on the Mosel some years ago where they had alerts for when mildews were about to strike and a light plane would go back and forth along the banks of the river spraying Bordeaux Mixture. Having suffered peronospora (downy mildew) myself on my tiny, tiny vineyard I can testify to its destructive power where, if not treated, one loses the whole crop. Â*I'm in Normandy which is not a wine growing area and so it was several years before peronospora struck here. But if I were living in a wine growing area I could be prosecuted for *not* spraying. When you say "readily available", do you mean that in the sense of what we would call a garden centre (or maybe supermarket) here, or is it an agricultural merchant selling in larger quantities? Â*Both! Â*However, I'm now stuck with another disease which threatens my whole crop and I have nothing left with which to fight it. Can you suggest a substitute? Â*In case I've misdiagnosed, here is a photo of an affected leaf: Â*http://www.rance.org.uk/chameau/anthracnose.jpg It does look like it, unfortunately. I spent some time looking up the situation regarding Bordeaux Mixture in the EU, and it is confusing to say the least! I came across this newspaper article which goes some way to explaining the confusion: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...entury-pestici de-survives-for-another-year-827084.html The last few paragraphs sum up an EU "fudge" which seems only too common with regard to chemical treatments. Mind you, I am a bit surprised to see that of the two member states which voted against reapproval, one of them was France! Interesting article. I'd heard that they were getting around the ban but didn't know the details. Can't understand France not voting for reapproval. I wonder what their reasons were. After all their wine exports will suffer if they can't control blight on their vines. Isn't there a problem with build up of copper in the soils and groundwater around vineyards due to overuse of the treatment. If you search at that link I gave you for fungicides (dropdown in bottom box) you will find quite a few hits, but unfortunately they are all for use on ornamental plants, not those with an edible crop (other than the Bayer copper oxychloride product). Of course, what you do with the product once you have it is another thing entirely. Of course! ;-)Â*Â* I have to return to the UK tomorrow so I have a month now to do some research before my next visit. Simplest way out is research the ingredients for the classic copper based fungicides and buy the ingredients on Amazon or eBay. Amazing what you can get online these days even if the suggestions for what else to buy are somewhat disturbing. I bought some fairly strong peroxide to bleach something recently and it suggested acetone to go with it! -- Regards, Martin Brown |
Anthracnose on my vines!
In message , Martin Brown
writes On 22/05/2018 22:23, David Rance wrote: In message , Jeff Layman writes On 22/05/18 08:42, David Rance wrote: In message , Jeff Layman writes On 21/05/18 20:54, David Rance wrote: In message , Jeff Layman writes On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote: Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have they been banned by the EU? ** For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on my vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy. ** David Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use. * But I always used Dithane which is 70% Mancozeb (according to the empty packet I have here). Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you use?), * Bordeaux Mixture is still readily available here in France. I forgot that you were in France. Of course, the French have always interpreted EU law to suit themselves. I think you will find that Bordeaux Mixture is not approved in the EU for *amateur* use. But it still may be for professional growers, and I understand that there are a few of those growing vines in France. *Yes, it has been banned but there was such an uproar from vine growers that the last I heard was that they were going to rethink the ban. I wouldn't be surprised if the same weren't true in Germany. I can well remember staying in a wine area on the Mosel some years ago where they had alerts for when mildews were about to strike and a light plane would go back and forth along the banks of the river spraying Bordeaux Mixture. Having suffered peronospora (downy mildew) myself on my tiny, tiny vineyard I can testify to its destructive power where, if not treated, one loses the whole crop. *I'm in Normandy which is not a wine growing area and so it was several years before peronospora struck here. But if I were living in a wine growing area I could be prosecuted for *not* spraying. When you say "readily available", do you mean that in the sense of what we would call a garden centre (or maybe supermarket) here, or is it an agricultural merchant selling in larger quantities? *Both! *However, I'm now stuck with another disease which threatens my whole crop and I have nothing left with which to fight it. Can you suggest a substitute? *In case I've misdiagnosed, here is a photo of an affected leaf: *http://www.rance.org.uk/chameau/anthracnose.jpg It does look like it, unfortunately. I spent some time looking up the situation regarding Bordeaux Mixture in the EU, and it is confusing to say the least! I came across this newspaper article which goes some way to explaining the confusion: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...entury-pestici de-survives-for-another-year-827084.html The last few paragraphs sum up an EU "fudge" which seems only too common with regard to chemical treatments. Mind you, I am a bit surprised to see that of the two member states which voted against reapproval, one of them was France! Interesting article. I'd heard that they were getting around the ban but didn't know the details. Can't understand France not voting for reapproval. I wonder what their reasons were. After all their wine exports will suffer if they can't control blight on their vines. Isn't there a problem with build up of copper in the soils and groundwater around vineyards due to overuse of the treatment. If you search at that link I gave you for fungicides (dropdown in bottom box) you will find quite a few hits, but unfortunately they are all for use on ornamental plants, not those with an edible crop than the Bayer copper oxychloride product). Of course, what you do with the product once you have it is another thing entirely. Of course! ;-)** I have to return to the UK tomorrow so I have a month now to do some research before my next visit. Simplest way out is research the ingredients for the classic copper based fungicides and buy the ingredients on Amazon or eBay. Amazing what you can get online these days even if the suggestions for what else to buy are somewhat disturbing. I bought some fairly strong peroxide to bleach something recently and it suggested acetone to go with it! Thanks for the thought, Martin, but, as far as I know (and this is the problem), anthracnose doesn't respond to copper based fungicides. And anyway, as Jeff and I have been discussing, Bordeaux mixture isn't a problem. It *is* still available. The ironic thing is that my empty carton of Dithane (active ingredient Mancozeb, which is where I started this thread) was reserved for amateur gardeners. Thanks to the EU, no longer! Further to my misery, I discovered this morning that anthracnose has now spread to my blackcurrants! Oh, malheur! I'm coming back to the UK today! David -- David Rance writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
Anthracnose on my vines!
On 22/05/2018 22:23, David Rance wrote:
In message , Jeff Layman writes On 22/05/18 08:42, David Rance wrote: In message , Jeff Layman writes On 21/05/18 20:54, David Rance wrote: In message , Jeff Layman writes On 21/05/18 16:41, David Rance wrote: Can anyone tell me if Mancozeb or Captan are still available or have they been banned by the EU? Â*Â* For the first time I seem to have a bad infection of anthracnose on my vines. Advice on treatment seems contradictory. Some say that sulphur treatments work, others say they don't! Today I've sprayed with Bordeaux Mixture but I'm not convinced of its efficacy. Â*Â* David Neither mancozeb nor captan are approved for home use. Â* But I always used Dithane which is 70% Mancozeb (according to the empty packet I have here). Bordeaux Mixture is also not approved (was it an old container you use?), Â* Bordeaux Mixture is still readily available here in France. I forgot that you were in France. Of course, the French have always interpreted EU law to suit themselves. I think you will find that Bordeaux Mixture is not approved in the EU for *amateur* use. But it still may be for professional growers, and I understand that there are a few of those growing vines in France. Â*Yes, it has been banned but there was such an uproar from vine growers that the last I heard was that they were going to rethink the ban. I wouldn't be surprised if the same weren't true in Germany. I can well remember staying in a wine area on the Mosel some years ago where they had alerts for when mildews were about to strike and a light plane would go back and forth along the banks of the river spraying Bordeaux Mixture. Having suffered peronospora (downy mildew) myself on my tiny, tiny vineyard I can testify to its destructive power where, if not treated, one loses the whole crop. Â*I'm in Normandy which is not a wine growing area and so it was several years before peronospora struck here. But if I were living in a wine growing area I could be prosecuted for *not* spraying. When you say "readily available", do you mean that in the sense of what we would call a garden centre (or maybe supermarket) here, or is it an agricultural merchant selling in larger quantities? Â*Both! Â*However, I'm now stuck with another disease which threatens my whole crop and I have nothing left with which to fight it. Can you suggest a substitute? Â*In case I've misdiagnosed, here is a photo of an affected leaf: Â*http://www.rance.org.uk/chameau/anthracnose.jpg It does look like it, unfortunately. I spent some time looking up the situation regarding Bordeaux Mixture in the EU, and it is confusing to say the least! I came across this newspaper article which goes some way to explaining the confusion: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...entury-pestici de-survives-for-another-year-827084.html The last few paragraphs sum up an EU "fudge" which seems only too common with regard to chemical treatments. Mind you, I am a bit surprised to see that of the two member states which voted against reapproval, one of them was France! Interesting article. I'd heard that they were getting around the ban but didn't know the details. Can't understand France not voting for reapproval. I wonder what their reasons were. After all their wine exports will suffer if they can't control blight on their vines. If you search at that link I gave you for fungicides (dropdown in bottom box) you will find quite a few hits, but unfortunately they are all for use on ornamental plants, not those with an edible crop (other than the Bayer copper oxychloride product). Of course, what you do with the product once you have it is another thing entirely. Of course! ;-)Â*Â* I have to return to the UK tomorrow so I have a month now to do some research before my next visit. David I think many decades of using Bordeaux mixture in france has raised the level of copper in the soils to levels considered dangerous -- Charlie Pridham Gardening in Cornwall www.roselandhouse.co.uk |
Anthracnose on my vines!
On 23/05/18 08:26, Martin Brown wrote:
Simplest way out is research the ingredients for the classic copper based fungicides and buy the ingredients on Amazon or eBay. Amazing what you can get online these days even if the suggestions for what else to buy are somewhat disturbing. I bought some fairly strong peroxide to bleach something recently and it suggested acetone to go with it! The strongest hydrogen peroxide generally available is 12%. It used to be 30%, but this was the strength used to make acetone peroxide. I am pleased to say that it is illegal to supply hydrogen peroxide over 12% to the general public. Hydrogen peroxide does have a couple of uses for gardening. Firstly, as a disinfectant. Secondly, as an aid to break the dormancy of some recalcitrant seeds. It would be possible to make your own "Bordeaux Mixture" from its ingredient parts, but using it after 31 January next year would be illegal in the eyes of the EU (unless they extend the "grace" period again!). Actually, it would probably be illegal to use it now as its manufacture and quality control would not have been approved. -- Jeff |
Anthracnose on my vines!
On 23/05/18 09:53, David Rance wrote:
The ironic thing is that my empty carton of Dithane (active ingredient Mancozeb, which is where I started this thread) was reserved for amateur gardeners. Thanks to the EU, no longer! Further to my misery, I discovered this morning that anthracnose has now spread to my blackcurrants! Oh, malheur! I'm coming back to the UK today! Get used to it! Don't worry about diseases on food crops - we have to protect the environment. The daft thing is that amateurs use minute amounts of chemicals compared with the agricultural industry. And if they are trying to protect amateurs from poisoning themselves through stupidity when using chemicals, well, have these legislators never heard of the Darwin Awards?! I wonder if there will be a ban on the sale of Nicotiana tabacum seeds one day if anyone starts making their own insecticidal spray from it. ;-) -- Jeff |
Anthracnose on my vines!
On 23/05/2018 19:20, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 23/05/18 09:53, David Rance wrote: The ironic thing is that my empty carton of Dithane (active ingredient Mancozeb, which is where I started this thread) was reserved for amateur gardeners. Thanks to the EU, no longer! I'm not quite sure how it came to be banned. Overuse in Belgian orchards vaguely rings a bell. The EU technical report when it got put into Appendix I is online: http://www.furs.si/law/EU/ffs/eng/an...R/Mancozeb.doc I still can't see why it got banned after a quick flash read. Further to my misery, I discovered this morning that anthracnose has now spread to my blackcurrants! Oh, malheur! I'm coming back to the UK today! Get used to it! Don't worry about diseases on food crops - we have to protect the environment. The daft thing is that amateurs use minute amounts of chemicals compared with the agricultural industry. And if they are trying to protect amateurs from poisoning themselves through stupidity when using chemicals, well, have these legislators never heard of the Darwin Awards?! I think there is some merit in banning the ones which could result in no birds or no bees or are known to cause cancer. Where it gets tricky are the ones which get abused by commercial crop growers and banned for all uses despite the fact that they are fine to use on ornamental plants. DDT is quite tricky in this respect in that it is well tolerated by mammals, incredibly lethal to mosquitos but also bad news for birds. Many older OPs the redspider has evolved fast enough to survive so you need to use something else anyway (ideally alternating between two). I have never found the organic control of them especially useful. YMMV Neither can I entirely eliminate mealy bug from my collection. I wonder if there will be a ban on the sale of Nicotiana tabacum seeds one day if anyone starts making their own insecticidal spray from it. ;-) If you extract it right there is more than a human lethal dose of nicotine from a packet of cigarettes. Gardeners did used to get poisoned themselves by nicotine extract back in the days when it was on sale. -- Regards, Martin Brown |
Anthracnose on my vines!
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote: On 23/05/2018 19:20, Jeff Layman wrote: On 23/05/18 09:53, David Rance wrote: The ironic thing is that my empty carton of Dithane (active ingredient Mancozeb, which is where I started this thread) was reserved for amateur gardeners. Thanks to the EU, no longer! I'm not quite sure how it came to be banned. Overuse in Belgian orchards vaguely rings a bell. The EU technical report when it got put into Appendix I is online: http://www.furs.si/law/EU/ffs/eng/an...R/Mancozeb.doc I still can't see why it got banned after a quick flash read. For obscure biochemical reasons, fungicides tend to have far more effect on humans than herbicides. Benomyl was banned to amateurs because excessive use in glasshouses and polytunnel caused malformed foetuses in pregnant employees. Further to my misery, I discovered this morning that anthracnose has now spread to my blackcurrants! Oh, malheur! I'm coming back to the UK today! Get used to it! Don't worry about diseases on food crops - we have to protect the environment. The daft thing is that amateurs use minute amounts of chemicals compared with the agricultural industry. And if they are trying to protect amateurs from poisoning themselves through stupidity when using chemicals, well, have these legislators never heard of the Darwin Awards?! I think there is some merit in banning the ones which could result in no birds or no bees or are known to cause cancer. Where it gets tricky are the ones which get abused by commercial crop growers and banned for all uses despite the fact that they are fine to use on ornamental plants. However, the UK's approach is to ban such things for amateurs, and leave it essentially unregulated for industry, which is precisely why the environmental problems don't improve. I use neonicotinamides, but I assert that wiping out the UK's native population of sunbirds isn't an ecological problem :-) Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Anthracnose on my vines!
On Fri, 25 May 2018 10:02:12 Martin Brown wrote:
On 23/05/2018 19:20, Jeff Layman wrote: On 23/05/18 09:53, David Rance wrote: The ironic thing is that my empty carton of Dithane (active ingredient Mancozeb, which is where I started this thread) was reserved for amateur gardeners. Thanks to the EU, no longer! I'm not quite sure how it came to be banned. Overuse in Belgian orchards vaguely rings a bell. The EU technical report when it got put into Appendix I is online: http://www.furs.si/law/EU/ffs/eng/an...R/Mancozeb.doc I still can't see why it got banned after a quick flash read. After a quick scan myself, it seems as though it's poisonous to some fish and algae! Dithane disappeared from the shelves in France many years ago but fortunately I had a stock of it which has now run out - just when I need it! When I tried to find some in a brico shop a couple of years ago the assistant I spoke to hadn't even heard of it! David -- David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK |
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