How do the English laws and regulations governing 'designated
agricultural land' come into play when someone wants to convert farmland
into garden??

What actually happens if someone buys somewhere in the country with a
few acres, and starts turning a field previously used for agriculture or
grazing into a large garden? Maybe rearranging a few internal boundaries
in the process. Is this in contravention of the title deeds, or planning
regs, or do neighbouring farmers who could use the land for farming have
the right to object, or...? Just wondered how the system works.

Cheers,

Chris

"Chris Nellist" wrote in
message ...
How do the English laws and regulations governing 'designated
agricultural land' come into play when someone wants to convert farmland
into garden??

You have to apply to the local council for planning permission for the
change, how they play it is purely up to their local policy.
Many councils are very "anti"

The Q

What actually happens if someone buys somewhere in the country with a
few acres, and starts turning a field previously used for agriculture or
grazing into a large garden? Maybe rearranging a few internal boundaries
in the process. if it's not noticable from the road or by neighbours then
they may get away with it...
Is this in contravention of the title deeds, or planning
regs, or do neighbouring farmers who could use the land for farming have
the right to object, or...? Just wondered how the system works.
ANYONE can object and the council have to stop you.
If neccessary by bulldozing the lot and then giiving you a very expensive
bill for doing it.

Cheers,

Chris

Chris Nellist wrote in message ...
How do the English laws and regulations governing 'designated
agricultural land' come into play when someone wants to convert farmland
into garden??

What actually happens if someone buys somewhere in the country with a
few acres, and starts turning a field previously used for agriculture or
grazing into a large garden? Maybe rearranging a few internal boundaries
in the process. Is this in contravention of the title deeds, or planning
regs, or do neighbouring farmers who could use the land for farming have
the right to object, or...? Just wondered how the system works.


1. You need planning permission to convert farmland into
another use, such as a garden.
2. Grazing of farm animals is fine, horses ain't agricultural animals so I
think they might need a 'change of use'.
2. One thing you can do on farmland without a 'change of use'
is plant a wood- not like a country park, but as a wood. 'Amenity use' is
now recognised as one legitimate use of woodland e.g
having a pretty clearing in the middle, and having a mix of trees suitable
for a range of wildllife. grants are available, the nice man from the
Forestry Commission will come and have a preliminary discussion and guide
you on what is and waht isn't
allowed. Even without grants, it's surprisingly cheap with many trees being
50p each. Local contractors can plant and maintain the wood also very
cheaply. Once planted be aware that there are draconian laws against
ripping up a 'wood', even if its only 5-year old saplings.
3. Another thing that you can do on farmland without a change of use is
plant an orchard. Now that's a thought!

www.btinternet.com/~treesandfruit/

--
Anton

In article , The Q
writes

"Chris Nellist" wrote in
message ...
How do the English laws and regulations governing 'designated
agricultural land' come into play when someone wants to convert farmland
into garden??

You have to apply to the local council for planning permission for the
change, how they play it is purely up to their local policy.
Many councils are very "anti"


They see it as the 'first move' to getting planning permission for a
dwelling

In the late 60's a chap planted a Vineyard. He then applied for planning
permission to build a 'dwelling'. Refused.

He tried again from time to time. Refused.

He then applied to build a cellar. Granted as long as it was
underground.

He then applied to put a bottling plant on top. Refused

He tried again. Granted and you have never seen a bottling plant look
more like a house ;-)

Yes he eventually moved in, it took him about 30 years and the vineyard
has since been sold.

'That' is what councils are cagey about.

I am watching another one now. Large house with a detached garage and a
plot of land through to the next road at the back.

Early 1970's, permission given to convert Garage to Granny annex.

Granny must have died later because the annex was upgraded to a full
bungalow and sold.

'Chalet' appears at the bottom of the garden, and a drive in from the
road at the back.

Guess what has appeared on a little wooden post next to the chalet? Yes
a planning permission notice ;-)

Mike

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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British Pacific Fleet Hayling Island Sept 5th - 8th
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R.N. Trafalgar Weekend Leamington Spa. Oct 10th - 13th. Plus many more

How do the English laws and regulations governing 'designated
agricultural land' come into play when someone wants to convert farmland
into garden??

What actually happens if someone buys somewhere in the country with a
few acres, and starts turning a field previously used for agriculture or
grazing into a large garden? Maybe rearranging a few internal boundaries
in the process. Is this in contravention of the title deeds, or planning
regs, or do neighbouring farmers who could use the land for farming have
the right to object, or...? Just wondered how the system works.

There was a feature on the local (Midlands) TV news a few years ago.
A farmer, who was a very keen and competent gardener, had extended his
flower garden (quite substantially) into one of his fields - and made a
stunning job of it, with several flower borders a lawn, pond, summer house
etc. Really nice. BUT he didn't get planning permission / change of usage
agreed first. It made the news because the local authority insisted he had
to rip up the entire wonderful garden and convert it back to farm land. What
a colossal waste of time and money. The farmer was absolutely gutted as you
would expect.

--
Drakanthus.


(Spam filter: Include the word VB anywhere in the subject line or emails
will never reach me.)

anton wrote:

Chris Nellist wrote in message ...
How do the English laws and regulations governing 'designated
agricultural land' come into play when someone wants to convert farmland
into garden??

What actually happens if someone buys somewhere in the country with a
few acres, and starts turning a field previously used for agriculture or
grazing into a large garden? Maybe rearranging a few internal boundaries
in the process. Is this in contravention of the title deeds, or planning
regs, or do neighbouring farmers who could use the land for farming have
the right to object, or...? Just wondered how the system works.


1. You need planning permission to convert farmland into
another use, such as a garden.
2. Grazing of farm animals is fine, horses ain't agricultural animals so I
think they might need a 'change of use'.
2. One thing you can do on farmland without a 'change of use'
is plant a wood- not like a country park, but as a wood. 'Amenity use' is
now recognised as one legitimate use of woodland e.g
having a pretty clearing in the middle, and having a mix of trees suitable
for a range of wildllife. grants are available, the nice man from the
Forestry Commission will come and have a preliminary discussion and guide
you on what is and waht isn't
allowed. Even without grants, it's surprisingly cheap with many trees being
50p each. Local contractors can plant and maintain the wood also very
cheaply. Once planted be aware that there are draconian laws against
ripping up a 'wood', even if its only 5-year old saplings.
3. Another thing that you can do on farmland without a change of use is
plant an orchard. Now that's a thought!

www.btinternet.com/~treesandfruit/

--
Anton


Granted the forestry comm will give you money for trees.. Ususally
however there are terms (aren't there always;-) IIRC you won't get all
the money 'up front' only after XXX period (it may even be 2 - 3 years)
and the trees have been growing and are fit and healthy. So you will
need an initial financial outlay whatever the case.

I remember the story of a guy who planted a small vegetable garden next
to his house near or on a field that was owned (not sure if by him or
neighbour) Anyway, said field was designated 'agricultural land' and was
a pea field.. Blokey with house thinks.. "Hmm I fancy a few peas.."
and plants a few rows.. Next thing the council is on to him.. His
'garden' is NOT designated ag. land.. thus he's not allowed to grow
peas... about 10 ft away (across the boundary) are more acres of peas
than you can shake a stick at..

Thats British planning & land law for ya!
//
Jim

Chris Nellist wrote in message ...
How do the English laws and regulations governing 'designated
agricultural land' come into play when someone wants to convert
farmland
into garden??

What actually happens if someone buys somewhere in the country with a
few acres, and starts turning a field previously used for agriculture
or
grazing into a large garden? Maybe rearranging a few internal
boundaries
in the process. Is this in contravention of the title deeds, or
planning
regs, or do neighbouring farmers who could use the land for farming
have
the right to object, or...? Just wondered how the system works.

There have been a couple of fairly recent, the last few years, cases
where someone has done just that, in all cases they were ordered to
return the land to its original state. You do need to contact the local
council.

Mike
www.british-naturism.org.uk

Mike wrote in
:

In article , The Q
writes

"Chris Nellist" wrote
in message ...
How do the English laws and regulations governing 'designated
agricultural land' come into play when someone wants to convert
farmland into garden??

You have to apply to the local council for planning permission for the
change, how they play it is purely up to their local policy.
Many councils are very "anti"

They see it as the 'first move' to getting planning permission for a
dwelling

I'd just want it as a garden though! :-)

So am I correct in thinking that the legal reason is that turning a
formerly farmed field into a garden counts as a 'change of use', even if it
wouldn't involve any actual building, the same way as converting an urban
garage into an office does?

What is the relevant legislation? For field-to-garden changes is it just
the council, or does DEFRA get a look-in?

In the late 60's a chap planted a Vineyard. He then applied for
planning permission to build a 'dwelling'. Refused.

He tried again from time to time. Refused.

He then applied to build a cellar. Granted as long as it was
underground.

He then applied to put a bottling plant on top. Refused

He tried again. Granted and you have never seen a bottling plant look
more like a house ;-)

Yes he eventually moved in, it took him about 30 years and the
vineyard has since been sold.

'That' is what councils are cagey about.

I am watching another one now. Large house with a detached garage and
a plot of land through to the next road at the back.

Early 1970's, permission given to convert Garage to Granny annex.

Granny must have died later because the annex was upgraded to a full
bungalow and sold.

There's loads of that sort of thing in parts of Scotland too - when I lived
there, I saw loads of cases where people got grants for this or that
'business', often one that did very little trade - e.g. bed and breakfast
in locations where hardly any potential guests would ever knock on the
door, and in one case a 'restaurant' which was hilarious because there was
a sign advertising it on the road, and then when you walked up to the house
and asked if the bloke could tell you where the restaurant was, he'd adopt
a quizzical look and say 'Restaurant? No, there's no restaurant near here',
as if you'd asked where the helipad was or something! Almost always, part
of it was that people would have large extensions built on to their houses.

Chris

"anton" wrote in
:

1. You need planning permission to convert farmland into
another use, such as a garden.
2. Grazing of farm animals is fine, horses ain't agricultural animals
so I think they might need a 'change of use'.
2. One thing you can do on farmland without a 'change of use'
is plant a wood- not like a country park, but as a wood. 'Amenity
use' is now recognised as one legitimate use of woodland e.g
having a pretty clearing in the middle, and having a mix of trees
suitable for a range of wildllife. grants are available, the nice man
from the Forestry Commission will come and have a preliminary
discussion and guide you on what is and waht isn't
allowed. Even without grants, it's surprisingly cheap with many trees
being 50p each. Local contractors can plant and maintain the wood
also very cheaply. Once planted be aware that there are draconian
laws against ripping up a 'wood', even if its only 5-year old
saplings. 3. Another thing that you can do on farmland without a
change of use is plant an orchard. Now that's a thought!

Thanks Anton. I think I would come under 1) because the idea would be to
create a large garden (2-3 acres?), probably mostly lawned at first, then
add bells and whistles as the years go by. Fruit trees might play a role,
but not really anything someone could reasonably call an orchard...

Any idea what sort of thing councils take into account when considering an
application under 1)? I haven't a clue about the ins and outs, but suspect
that since so few people do it, permission would rarely be granted. No idea
whether this is true though.

Chris

"Drakanthus" wrote in
:

How do the English laws and regulations governing 'designated
agricultural land' come into play when someone wants to convert
farmland into garden??

What actually happens if someone buys somewhere in the country with
a few acres, and starts turning a field previously used for
agriculture or grazing into a large garden? Maybe rearranging a few
internal boundaries in the process. Is this in contravention of the
title deeds, or planning regs, or do neighbouring farmers who could
use the land for farming have the right to object, or...? Just
wondered how the system works.

There was a feature on the local (Midlands) TV news a few years ago.
A farmer, who was a very keen and competent gardener, had extended his
flower garden (quite substantially) into one of his fields - and made
a stunning job of it, with several flower borders a lawn, pond, summer
house etc. Really nice. BUT he didn't get planning permission / change
of usage agreed first. It made the news because the local authority
insisted he had to rip up the entire wonderful garden and convert it
back to farm land. What a colossal waste of time and money. The farmer
was absolutely gutted as you would expect.

Bloody local councils!

Chris

I'd just want it as a garden though! :-)

So am I correct in thinking that the legal reason is that turning a
formerly farmed field into a garden counts as a 'change of use', even if
it
wouldn't involve any actual building, the same way as converting an urban
garage into an office does?

Exactly! The change of use from agricultural use to domestic requires
planning permission. The are numerous pieces of legislation affecting
planning and it is not practical to quote them but it is the same basic
stuff as if you want to build a house. If you want to do it go and talk to
your local planners who will give you an idea of the likelihood of the
request being granted. Unless you are wanting to take a large amount of
prime agricultural land then DEFRA will not be involved.

In article , Chris Nellist
writes
How do the English laws and regulations governing 'designated
agricultural land' come into play when someone wants to convert farmland
into garden??

What actually happens if someone buys somewhere in the country with a
few acres, and starts turning a field previously used for agriculture or
grazing into a large garden? Maybe rearranging a few internal boundaries
in the process. Is this in contravention of the title deeds, or planning
regs, or do neighbouring farmers who could use the land for farming have
the right to object, or...? Just wondered how the system works.

A colleague of mine applied for planning permission to build a 'granny
annexe'. At that point, the planners said 'wait a minute ... there
should be a field here, not a garden ..' and he was told to reinstate
the field and the original boundary. He felt especially peeved as it had
been the previous owner who'd made the change!


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Bloody local councils!

Why blame the Council? They administer a complex set of rules set by central
government. If people choose to ignore the rules and get caught then they
have nobody but themselves to blame! The reason for the planning system is
to provide a framework within development can proceed in a manner that, by
and large, prevents the mess that results when everybody does as they please
without regard for anyone else. Yes it is imperfect and some Councils are
stricter than others, but there are a lot of checks and balances within the
system. I don't doubt you would be among the first to complain if people
could just put up buildings wherever they pleased. You should be lobbying
your MP for change if you want it.

The message
from Chris Nellist
contains these words:

"Drakanthus" wrote in
:

How do the English laws and regulations governing 'designated
agricultural land' come into play when someone wants to convert
farmland into garden??

What actually happens if someone buys somewhere in the country with
a few acres, and starts turning a field previously used for
agriculture or grazing into a large garden? Maybe rearranging a few
internal boundaries in the process.

There was a feature on the local (Midlands) TV news a few years ago.
A farmer, who was a very keen and competent gardener, had extended his
flower garden (quite substantially) into one of his fields - and made
a stunning job of it, with several flower borders a lawn, pond, summer
house etc. Really nice. BUT he didn't get planning permission / change
of usage agreed first. It made the news because the local authority
insisted he had to rip up the entire wonderful garden and convert it
back to farm land. What a colossal waste of time and money. The farmer
was absolutely gutted as you would expect.

Bloody local councils!

Is there still such a thing as a ten year rule whereby if you have
actually been changing the use of the land for ten years without anyone
protesting, it will be rubber-stamped by the council on application?

Janet G

In article , Kay Easton
writes
A colleague of mine applied for planning permission to build a 'granny
annexe'. At that point, the planners said 'wait a minute ... there
should be a field here, not a garden ..' and he was told to reinstate
the field and the original boundary. He felt especially peeved as it had
been the previous owner who'd made the change!

Established use may be used as an argument where the use has been
continuous and objections not notified by the local planners within a
period of 4 years. IANAL

regards



--
Tim Lamb