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Rachel de Thame and national collections
TV tonight - Rachel de Thame
'a national Collection is a collection of a single *species*' ... then almost in the same breath 'the National collection of Crocus' ... so all crocus are the same species, are they? Is this TV dumbing down and protecting its viewers from difficult words like 'genus' which they don't understand? It surely can't be Rachel de T herself who doesn't understand the difference? This sort of thing does get me cross! -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
could it be that she thinks that only place you would find genus is at a
Mensa meeting. -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
"Kay Easton" wrote in message ... TV tonight - Rachel de Thame 'a national Collection is a collection of a single *species*' ... then almost in the same breath 'the National collection of Crocus' ... so all crocus are the same species, are they? Is this TV dumbing down and protecting its viewers from difficult words like 'genus' which they don't understand? It surely can't be Rachel de T herself who doesn't understand the difference? This sort of thing does get me cross! Kay Easton And she obviously does not read URG - she's still wearing the bloody cardigan round the bum......... Jenny |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
I still call them species and I like gardening. It's not that I'm not
intelligent, it's just what I grew up with. Charlie. "Kay Easton" wrote in message ... TV tonight - Rachel de Thame 'a national Collection is a collection of a single *species*' ... then almost in the same breath 'the National collection of Crocus' ... so all crocus are the same species, are they? Is this TV dumbing down and protecting its viewers from difficult words like 'genus' which they don't understand? It surely can't be Rachel de T herself who doesn't understand the difference? This sort of thing does get me cross! -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
"Kay Easton" wrote TV tonight - Rachel de Thame 'a national Collection is a collection of a single *species*' ... then almost in the same breath 'the National collection of Crocus' ... so all crocus are the same species, are they? Is this TV dumbing down and protecting its viewers from difficult words like 'genus' which they don't understand? It surely can't be Rachel de T herself who doesn't understand the difference? This sort of thing does get me cross! Kay Easton The Webster dictionary (http://machaut.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/...h?WORD=species) has the following......... 3. In zoölogy and botany, a species is an ideal group of individuals which are believed to have descended from common ancestors, which agree in essential characteristics, and are capable of indefinitely continued fertile reproduction through the sexes. A species, as thus defined, differs from a variety or subspecies only in the greater stability of its characters and in the absence of individuals intermediate between the related groups. 4. A sort; a kind; a variety; as, a species of low cunning; a species of generosity; a species of cloth. I like that - "a species of low cunning" - they probably mean knotweed, marestail etc :~)) Jenny |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
In article , David Hill david@abacus
nurseries.freeserve.co.uk writes could it be that she thinks that only place you would find genus is at a Mensa meeting. Right. Dumbing down. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
In article , Charlie news@lowfidelit
y.NOSPAMorg.uk writes I still call them species and I like gardening. It's not that I'm not intelligent, it's just what I grew up with. Yes, but *what* do you call species? Crocus sativus, Crocus vernus as two species of crocus, and 'species crocus' to distinguish between them and the large flowered hybrids Or do you refer to Crocus as one species and snowdrop as another species, and heather as a third species, as did Rachel de T? Do people just not care that the botanical names are an attempt to encapsulate the evolutionary history of each plant? Do they just regard them as names given on a whim, rather like a 'name the teddy bear' competition at a local fete? -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
In article , JennyC
writes 3. In zoölogy and botany, a species is an ideal group of individuals which are believed to have descended from common ancestors, which agree in essential characteristics, and are capable of indefinitely continued fertile reproduction through the sexes. A species, as thus defined, differs from a variety or subspecies only in the greater stability of its characters and in the absence of individuals intermediate between the related groups. So even Webster understands the difference! A genus is a group of species descended from the same ancestors, which agree in essential characteristics. BUT - the different species within a genus may or may not be capable of fertile reproduction with each other (and if they are, then in the wild they are separated by niche or habitat so such reproduction does not normally occur). And if reproduction between two species occurs, the result is a hybrid. Still in the same genus, but not the same as any of the existing species. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
"Kay Easton" wrote in message ... Or do you refer to Crocus as one species and snowdrop as another species, and heather as a third species, as did Rachel de T? Yeah, I do that. Although usually I just say "That's one type, and that's another". Do people just not care that the botanical names are an attempt to encapsulate the evolutionary history of each plant? Do they just regard them as names given on a whim, rather like a 'name the teddy bear' competition at a local fete? I care about how the names apply to the evolution, I just don't call them different "Genus", they're different types. Charlie. |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
In article , Kay Easton writes TV tonight - Rachel de Thame 'a national Collection is a collection of a single *species*' ... then almost in the same breath 'the National collection of Crocus' ... so all crocus are the same species, are they? Is this TV dumbing down and protecting its viewers from difficult words like 'genus' which they don't understand? It surely can't be Rachel de T herself who doesn't understand the difference? This sort of thing does get me cross! In one of the earlier programmes in the series, she visited the new Yorkshire RHS garden and both she and one of the gardeners there used the name Mare's Tail when looking at a border full of Horsetail and saying that it would have to be eradicated by spraying. OK, Equisetum is, sometimes, called Mare's Tail, though I'm not alone in thinking it shouldn't be, but the error was doubly confounded by the entry in the Radio Times which not only mentioned that they would discuss a problem with Mare's Tail but used the Latin name Hippuris vulgaris :-( If only all my Horsetail could be replaced by Mare's Tail.....! -- Malcolm |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
In article , JennyC writes "Kay Easton" wrote TV tonight - Rachel de Thame 'a national Collection is a collection of a single *species*' ... then almost in the same breath 'the National collection of Crocus' ... so all crocus are the same species, are they? Is this TV dumbing down and protecting its viewers from difficult words like 'genus' which they don't understand? It surely can't be Rachel de T herself who doesn't understand the difference? This sort of thing does get me cross! Kay Easton The Webster dictionary (http://machaut.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/...h?WORD=species) has the following......... 3. In zoölogy and botany, a species is an ideal group of individuals which are believed to have descended from common ancestors, which agree in essential characteristics, and are capable of indefinitely continued fertile reproduction through the sexes. A species, as thus defined, differs from a variety or subspecies only in the greater stability of its characters and in the absence of individuals intermediate between the related groups. 4. A sort; a kind; a variety; as, a species of low cunning; a species of generosity; a species of cloth. I like that - "a species of low cunning" - they probably mean knotweed, marestail etc :~)) I think you mean "horsetail". See my other post :-) -- Malcolm |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
In article , Kay Easton writes In article , Charlie news@lowfidelit y.NOSPAMorg.uk writes I still call them species and I like gardening. It's not that I'm not intelligent, it's just what I grew up with. Yes, but *what* do you call species? Crocus sativus, Crocus vernus as two species of crocus, and 'species crocus' to distinguish between them and the large flowered hybrids Or do you refer to Crocus as one species and snowdrop as another species, and heather as a third species, as did Rachel de T? Do people just not care that the botanical names are an attempt to encapsulate the evolutionary history of each plant? Do they just regard them as names given on a whim, rather like a 'name the teddy bear' competition at a local fete? When I'm in doubt as to what word to use I play safe and resort to that excellent word taxa (sing. taxon) which covers all possible descriptors from form to kingdoms! -- Malcolm |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
Malcolm wrote:
In one of the earlier programmes in the series, she visited the new Yorkshire RHS garden and both she and one of the gardeners there used the name Mare's Tail when looking at a border full of Horsetail and saying that it would have to be eradicated by spraying. OK, Equisetum is, sometimes, called Mare's Tail, though I'm not alone in thinking it shouldn't be, but the error was doubly confounded by the entry in the Radio Times which not only mentioned that they would discuss a problem with Mare's Tail but used the Latin name Hippuris vulgaris :-( If only all my Horsetail could be replaced by Mare's Tail.....! The danger of common epithets!-) Eg bluebells are not always bluebells;-) // Jim |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
Kay Easton wrote:
TV tonight - Rachel de Thame 'a national Collection is a collection of a single *species*' ... then almost in the same breath 'the National collection of Crocus' ... so all crocus are the same species, are they? Doh!-) Can we make a looped tape of this and post it back to the BBC?!-) And this after she just visited the NCCPG London Fair at Kenwood.. I didn't see last nights programme (will have to watch the repeat) but she was buying crates of plants like there was no tomorrow-) // Jim Is this TV dumbing down and protecting its viewers from difficult words like 'genus' which they don't understand? It surely can't be Rachel de T herself who doesn't understand the difference? This sort of thing does get me cross! |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
Do people just not care that the botanical names are an attempt to encapsulate the evolutionary history of each plant? Hurrah! (but I do wish I could remember - I have to look it up in 20,000 Leagues under the Sea when I need to know!) Mary |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
In article , JennyC
writes "Kay Easton" wrote in message ... Is this TV dumbing down and protecting its viewers from difficult words like 'genus' which they don't understand? It surely can't be Rachel de T herself who doesn't understand the difference? This sort of thing does get me cross! Kay Easton And she obviously does not read URG - she's still wearing the bloody cardigan round the bum......... She's heard that big bums are fashionable and is trying to draw attention to it ;-) -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
In article 1fw6ng1.i14xsj1od8fpyN%00senetnospamtodayta@macun limited.net
, Jim W writes The danger of common epithets!-) Eg bluebells are not always bluebells;-) Not that the botanical names are reliably stable: half the Lavatera's are now Malvas (and some Malvas may be Lavateras, and one Lavatera may be neither); some Althaeas may be Malvas; and there's a big restructuring of Hibiscus in the offing. -- Stewart Robert Hinsley |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
"Kay Easton" wrote JennyC writes "Kay Easton" wrote And she obviously does not read URG - she's still wearing the bloody cardigan round the bum......... She's heard that big bums are fashionable and is trying to draw attention to it ;-) Kay Easton Gosh - I shall be fashionable at last :~) Jenny |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message ... In article 1fw6ng1.i14xsj1od8fpyN%00senetnospamtodayta@macun limited.net , Jim W writes The danger of common epithets!-) Eg bluebells are not always bluebells;-) Not that the botanical names are reliably stable: half the Lavatera's are now Malvas (and some Malvas may be Lavateras, and one Lavatera may be neither); some Althaeas may be Malvas; and there's a big restructuring of Hibiscus in the offing. I'm glad I grow vegetables! Mary -- Stewart Robert Hinsley |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
In article , Stewart Robert Hinsley
writes In article 1fw6ng1.i14xsj1od8fpyN%00senetnospamtodayta@macun limited.net , Jim W writes The danger of common epithets!-) Eg bluebells are not always bluebells;-) Not that the botanical names are reliably stable: half the Lavatera's are now Malvas (and some Malvas may be Lavateras, and one Lavatera may be neither); some Althaeas may be Malvas; and there's a big restructuring of Hibiscus in the offing. That's a result of the fact that the names actually mean something - if your knowledge increases so you realise one member of the tree is actually more closely related elsewhere, you have to change the names to reflect this. You could keep flower names nice and stable if they were just names, and not shorthand for other information. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
In article , Mary Fisher
writes Not that the botanical names are reliably stable: half the Lavatera's are now Malvas (and some Malvas may be Lavateras, and one Lavatera may be neither); some Althaeas may be Malvas; and there's a big restructuring of Hibiscus in the offing. I'm glad I grow vegetables! You can't escape :-) Tomatoes (Lycopersicon) and tamarillos (Cyphamandra) have been reclassified back in Solanum, and I understand the generic limits in Brassicaceae are unclear. -- Stewart Robert Hinsley |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
There are more important things in life to get heated up about than
whether Rachel De Thame said 'species' instead of 'type'....or even 'geno-type'. I like her. I think the newly revamped Gardener's World with Monty Don is good. Anyway, he became a hero of mine after I read an article of his about apples and apple trees in one of the colour magazines. He has his heart in it and I believe Rachel De Thame does too. |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message ... In article , Mary Fisher writes Not that the botanical names are reliably stable: half the Lavatera's are now Malvas (and some Malvas may be Lavateras, and one Lavatera may be neither); some Althaeas may be Malvas; and there's a big restructuring of Hibiscus in the offing. I'm glad I grow vegetables! You can't escape :-) Tomatoes (Lycopersicon) and tamarillos (Cyphamandra) have been reclassified back in Solanum, and I understand the generic limits in Brassicaceae are unclear. wwwwaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ........... !!!!!!!!! I'll stick to tomatoes (tamarillos???), cabbges, broccoli and sprouts thank you! Mary -- Stewart Robert Hinsley |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
"Helen" wrote in message m... There are more important things in life to get heated up about than whether Rachel De Thame said 'species' instead of 'type'....or even 'geno-type'. I like her. I think the newly revamped Gardener's World with Monty Don is good. Anyway, he became a hero of mine after I read an article of his about apples and apple trees in one of the colour magazines. He has his heart in it and I believe Rachel De Thame does too. I'm assuming that this woman is on television - which we don't have. Nevertheless, if she's featuring as an expert she ought to get things right. Entertainment isn't as important as accuracy ... I get cross about GQT when some of the team seem to be more concerned about raising a laugh than transmitting sound information. I agree absolutely with Kay. Mary |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
"Kay wrote in message TV tonight - Rachel de Thame 'a national Collection is a collection of a single *species*' ... then almost in the same breath 'the National collection of Crocus' ... so all crocus are the same species, are they? Is this TV dumbing down and protecting its viewers from difficult words like 'genus' which they don't understand? It surely can't be Rachel de T herself who doesn't understand the difference? This sort of thing does get me cross! -- Accepting that Rachel does know what she is on about, and she's done the course, it may well have been a slip of the tongue. Unfortunately the production crew probably don't have her knowledge to know, and correct it, with a retake. -- Bob www.pooleygreengrowers.org.uk/ about an Allotment site in Runnymede fighting for it's existence. |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
In article , Sue & Bob Hobden
writes "Kay wrote in message TV tonight - Rachel de Thame 'a national Collection is a collection of a single *species*' ... then almost in the same breath 'the National collection of Crocus' ... so all crocus are the same species, are they? Is this TV dumbing down and protecting its viewers from difficult words like 'genus' which they don't understand? It surely can't be Rachel de T herself who doesn't understand the difference? This sort of thing does get me cross! -- Accepting that Rachel does know what she is on about, and she's done the course, it may well have been a slip of the tongue. Unfortunately the production crew probably don't have her knowledge to know, and correct it, with a retake. It was repeated a few times! I suspect it was in the script. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
I would think that to most people
"I have a collection of species Crocus" "I have a collection of Crocus species" would have the same meaning -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
In article , David Hill david@abacus
nurseries.freeserve.co.uk writes I would think that to most people "I have a collection of species Crocus" "I have a collection of Crocus species" would have the same meaning Yes - and that is fine. But what was in the programme was the suggestion that Crocus itself was *a* species - in other words 'I have a collection of Crocus species' would be meaningless because there is only one species - Crocus. Anything else were merely varieties. That's what got me cross. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
"Kay Easton" wrote in message It was repeated a few times! I suspect it was in the script. -- Kay Easton Sloppy editing - but why don't the presenters check their own scripts? Rod |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
I have come rather late to this thread but do remember raising an eyebrow
when the offending comment was being made on the programme. However, I don't have the benefit of a replay but am not at all sure that the indefinite article was included. The claim that a National Collection is a collection of single species is not in dispute. And leave off Rachel's rear view!!! I think some of you Urglers must be watching a 4:3 broadcast in widescreen ; ) "Kay Easton" wrote in message ... In article , David Hill david@abacus nurseries.freeserve.co.uk writes I would think that to most people "I have a collection of species Crocus" "I have a collection of Crocus species" would have the same meaning Yes - and that is fine. But what was in the programme was the suggestion that Crocus itself was *a* species - in other words 'I have a collection of Crocus species' would be meaningless because there is only one species - Crocus. Anything else were merely varieties. That's what got me cross. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
She's heard that big bums are fashionable and is trying to draw
attention to it ;-) Please don't say such things about the lovely Rachel as i am desperately in love with her. |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
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Rachel de Thame and national collections
On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:41:30 +0100, Malcolm
wrote: ~ ~In article , Kay Easton writes ~TV tonight - Rachel de Thame ~'a national Collection is a collection of a single *species*' ... then ~almost in the same breath 'the National collection of Crocus' ... so all ~crocus are the same species, are they? ~ ~Is this TV dumbing down and protecting its viewers from difficult words ~like 'genus' which they don't understand? ~It surely can't be Rachel de T herself who doesn't understand the ~difference? ~ ~This sort of thing does get me cross! ~ ~In one of the earlier programmes in the series, she visited the new ~Yorkshire RHS garden and both she and one of the gardeners there used ~the name Mare's Tail when looking at a border full of Horsetail and ~saying that it would have to be eradicated by spraying. OK, Equisetum ~is, sometimes, called Mare's Tail, though I'm not alone in thinking it ~shouldn't be, but the error was doubly confounded by the entry in the ~Radio Times which not only mentioned that they would discuss a problem ~with Mare's Tail but used the Latin name Hippuris vulgaris :-( ~ ~If only all my Horsetail could be replaced by Mare's Tail.....! I grew up calling it Mare's Tail, as my grandad's garden was full of it. He was a lifelong gardener, with allotments etc and I think it broke his heart when the next door neighbour never did anything and the Mare's Tails arrived under the fence. Perhaps this is why Harlow Carr calls them Mare's Tails - I'm northern too... is there a north-south split in the common name? I still am a bit schizo about what common name I use so I tend to favour equisetum! -- jane Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you may still exist but you have ceased to live. Mark Twain Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks! |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
"Mary Fisher" wrote in
t: "Helen" wrote in message m... There are more important things in life to get heated up about than whether Rachel De Thame said 'species' instead of 'type'....or even 'geno-type'. I like her. I think the newly revamped Gardener's World with Monty Don is good. Anyway, he became a hero of mine after I read an article of his about apples and apple trees in one of the colour magazines. He has his heart in it and I believe Rachel De Thame does too. I'm assuming that this woman is on television - which we don't have. Nevertheless, if she's featuring as an expert she ought to get things right. Entertainment isn't as important as accuracy ... You have a right to your opinion, but I can sympathise with TV program- makers who decide not to listen to it ;-). TV (which I watch with enthusiasm) is all about entertainment, and I do not expect it to be particularly accurate in any field. As more and more channels are created and have to be filled, it will probably get less accurate still. Those that care will look up the information in an authoritative source, if there is one, and learn much more that way, and the rest will not notice one way or the other. I discovered when I got to university that pretty much everything I'd been taught about my degree subject at A level was wrong. Probably if I'd gone on to do a D.Phil I'd have discovered even more wrongnesses at degree level. I am sure that I am completely deluded about subjects I only have an O level in, and as for stuff like gardening that I have never been taught at all! Well I should probably give up on that now. Life is full of being wrong: don't let it get to you. Victoria |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
JennyC wrote: "Kay Easton" wrote TV tonight - Rachel de Thame 'a national Collection is a collection of a single *species*' ... then almost in the same breath 'the National collection of Crocus' ... so all crocus are the same species, are they? Is this TV dumbing down and protecting its viewers from difficult words like 'genus' which they don't understand? It surely can't be Rachel de T herself who doesn't understand the difference? This sort of thing does get me cross! Kay Easton The Webster dictionary (http://machaut.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/...h?WORD=species) has the following......... 3. In zoölogy and botany, a species is an ideal group of individuals which are believed to have descended from common ancestors, which agree in essential characteristics, and are capable of indefinitely continued fertile reproduction through the sexes. A species, as thus defined, differs from a variety or subspecies only in the greater stability of its characters and in the absence of individuals intermediate between the related groups. Given how much this topic is still debated among zoologists and botanists, I don't think this is a particularly authoratative definition of a species. The last line is particularly suspect...have they never heard of hybrids? Anita (a zoologist) |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
In article , jane
monmapson.co.uk writes ~If only all my Horsetail could be replaced by Mare's Tail.....! I have not really followed this thread. I see R de T as a gardening presenter rather than a horticultural expert or an objet d'art. I am just wondering if there is any implied correlation between Mare's Tail and the discussion of her rear? -- Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs. |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
In article , jane
monmapson.co.uk writes ~If only all my Horsetail could be replaced by Mare's Tail.....! I have not really followed this thread. I see R de T as a gardening presenter rather than a horticultural expert or an objet d'art. I am just wondering if there is any implied correlation between Mare's Tail and the discussion of her rear? -- Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs. |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
If it's true love, surely you love her just as she is, stretchmarked
cellulite and all? Janet. Janet Of course its true love and please stop trying to undermine it. Rachel does not have stretch marks or cellulite and if she did it would be hidden by the jumper around the waist which covers her other imperfections Michael |
Rachel de Thame and national collections
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