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What happened to all the fungicides?
hiya,
I came to get some systemic fungicides this year and found that the only one about is for ornmentals. I wondered are they not bringing them back and why? I heard last year they were relooking at whats out there but I presumed something would come back. If they are not coming back can someone give me some tips on using the 'normal' stuff as I used to use systemic cos it sorted it out esp in thick growth when its hard to spray it all. much thanks in advance. amber |
What happened to all the fungicides?
Amber wrote:
I came to get some systemic fungicides this year and found that the only one about is for ornmentals. I wondered are they not bringing them back and why? I heard last year they were relooking at whats out there but I presumed something would come back. If they are not coming back can someone give me some tips on using the 'normal' stuff as I used to use systemic cos it sorted it out esp in thick growth when its hard to spray it all. I believe some are no longer approved for use by DEFRA. You may find old stocks still on sale somewhere.. WHat are your specific problems? As with all pests you should always try improved cultivation as a primary method. // J |
What happened to all the fungicides?
"Jim W" wrote in message news:1fwz8gn.np65k5khx32aN%00senetnospamtodayta@ma cunlimited.net... Amber wrote: I came to get some systemic fungicides this year and found that the only one about is for ornmentals. I wondered are they not bringing them back and why? I heard last year they were relooking at whats out there but I presumed something would come back. If they are not coming back can someone give me some tips on using the 'normal' stuff as I used to use systemic cos it sorted it out esp in thick growth when its hard to spray it all. I believe some are no longer approved for use by DEFRA. You may find old stocks still on sale somewhere.. WHat are your specific problems? As with all pests you should always try improved cultivation as a primary method. // J I get black spot and mildew on roses and lemon balm. Unfortunatly with a north facing garden that has a lake at the end and a willow tree tending to get things and pass them on I tend to get it quite a bit. I reduced the problem by changing my types of roses, but we are moving *touch wood* this year and so cannot change them now. |
What happened to all the fungicides?
We can blame it on the EEC (or what ever it's present name is)
All chemicals have to be retested and for many firms the cost is not worth it for a lot of the chemicals used in the Armature market. Its not all that much better for the professional. And then its also down to this "Nanny State" where Rose clear was removed from sale as One Fool managed to get concentrate into his/her eye and it caused Irritation.... no lasting damage....... but ..... in something like 12 years of use it was the first incident reported.. So it's back to things like Bordeaux Mixture (Lime and Sulphur) Copper Etc Will have to dig out my old books... David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
What happened to all the fungicides?
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:02:24 +0100, "David Hill"
wrote: We can blame it on the EEC (or what ever it's present name is) All chemicals have to be retested and for many firms the cost is not worth it for a lot of the chemicals used in the Armature market. Its not all that much better for the professional. And then its also down to this "Nanny State" where Rose clear was removed from sale as One Fool managed to get concentrate into his/her eye and it caused Irritation.... no lasting damage....... but ..... in something like 12 years of use it was the first incident reported.. So it's back to things like Bordeaux Mixture (Lime and Sulphur) Copper Etc You will find that copper is on the banned list too. -- martin |
What happened to all the fungicides?
|
What happened to all the fungicides?
"martin" wrote in message ... On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:02:24 +0100, "David Hill" wrote: We can blame it on the EEC (or what ever it's present name is) All chemicals have to be retested and for many firms the cost is not worth it for a lot of the chemicals used in the Armature market. Its not all that much better for the professional. And then its also down to this "Nanny State" where Rose clear was removed from sale as One Fool managed to get concentrate into his/her eye and it caused Irritation.... no lasting damage....... but ..... in something like 12 years of use it was the first incident reported.. So it's back to things like Bordeaux Mixture (Lime and Sulphur) Copper Etc You will find that copper is on the banned list too. Why did the slugs complain about it? ;-) |
What happened to all the fungicides?
"Jim W" wrote in message news:1fwz8gn.np65k5khx32aN%00senetnospamtodayta@ma cunlimited.net... Amber wrote: I came to get some systemic fungicides this year and found that the only one about is for ornmentals. I wondered are they not bringing them back and why? I heard last year they were relooking at whats out there but I presumed something would come back. If they are not coming back can someone give me some tips on using the 'normal' stuff as I used to use systemic cos it sorted it out esp in thick growth when its hard to spray it all. I believe some are no longer approved for use by DEFRA. You may find old stocks still on sale somewhere.. WHat are your specific problems? As with all pests you should always try improved cultivation as a primary method. // J I get black spot and mildew on roses and lemon balm. Unfortunatly with a north facing garden that has a lake at the end and a willow tree tending to get things and pass them on I tend to get it quite a bit. I reduced the problem by changing my types of roses, but we are moving *touch wood* this year and so cannot change them now. |
What happened to all the fungicides?
We can blame it on the EEC (or what ever it's present name is)
All chemicals have to be retested and for many firms the cost is not worth it for a lot of the chemicals used in the Armature market. Its not all that much better for the professional. And then its also down to this "Nanny State" where Rose clear was removed from sale as One Fool managed to get concentrate into his/her eye and it caused Irritation.... no lasting damage....... but ..... in something like 12 years of use it was the first incident reported.. So it's back to things like Bordeaux Mixture (Lime and Sulphur) Copper Etc Will have to dig out my old books... David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
What happened to all the fungicides?
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:02:24 +0100, "David Hill"
wrote: We can blame it on the EEC (or what ever it's present name is) All chemicals have to be retested and for many firms the cost is not worth it for a lot of the chemicals used in the Armature market. Its not all that much better for the professional. And then its also down to this "Nanny State" where Rose clear was removed from sale as One Fool managed to get concentrate into his/her eye and it caused Irritation.... no lasting damage....... but ..... in something like 12 years of use it was the first incident reported.. So it's back to things like Bordeaux Mixture (Lime and Sulphur) Copper Etc You will find that copper is on the banned list too. -- martin |
What happened to all the fungicides?
|
What happened to all the fungicides?
"martin" wrote in message ... On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:02:24 +0100, "David Hill" wrote: We can blame it on the EEC (or what ever it's present name is) All chemicals have to be retested and for many firms the cost is not worth it for a lot of the chemicals used in the Armature market. Its not all that much better for the professional. And then its also down to this "Nanny State" where Rose clear was removed from sale as One Fool managed to get concentrate into his/her eye and it caused Irritation.... no lasting damage....... but ..... in something like 12 years of use it was the first incident reported.. So it's back to things like Bordeaux Mixture (Lime and Sulphur) Copper Etc You will find that copper is on the banned list too. Why did the slugs complain about it? ;-) |
What happened to all the fungicides?
"David Hill" wrote in message ... We can blame it on the EEC (or what ever it's present name is) All chemicals have to be retested and for many firms the cost is not worth it for a lot of the chemicals used in the Armature market. Its not all that much better for the professional. And then its also down to this "Nanny State" where Rose clear was removed from sale as One Fool managed to get concentrate into his/her eye and it caused Irritation.... no lasting damage....... but ..... in something like 12 years of use it was the first incident reported.. So it's back to things like Bordeaux Mixture (Lime and Sulphur) Copper Etc Will have to dig out my old books... has anyone got any recommendations of what product to use on food stuffs or are they all much the same? |
What happened to all the fungicides?
Amber wrote:
"David Hill" wrote in message ... We can blame it on the EEC (or what ever it's present name is) All chemicals have to be retested and for many firms the cost is not worth it for a lot of the chemicals used in the Armature market. Its not all that much better for the professional. And then its also down to this "Nanny State" where Rose clear was removed from sale as One Fool managed to get concentrate into his/her eye and it caused Irritation.... no lasting damage....... but ..... in something like 12 years of use it was the first incident reported.. So it's back to things like Bordeaux Mixture (Lime and Sulphur) Copper Etc Will have to dig out my old books... has anyone got any recommendations of what product to use on food stuffs or are they all much the same? One thats recomended & licenced for use on vegetable and for that particular pest. They all have labels that you should read before use. Anything specific in mind?? // J |
What happened to all the fungicides?
In article ,
David Hill wrote: Amber wrote: I came to get some systemic fungicides this year and found that the only one about is for ornmentals. I wondered are they not bringing them back and why? I heard last year they were relooking at whats out there but I presumed something would come back. If they are not coming back can someone give me some tips on using the 'normal' stuff as I used to use systemic cos it sorted it out esp in thick growth when its hard to spray it all. We can blame it on the EEC (or what ever it's present name is) Blame is not entirely the right word and, in any case, we can't. All chemicals have to be retested and for many firms the cost is not worth it for a lot of the chemicals used in the Armature market. The reason that fungicides have almost disappeared is that almost all of the effective systemic ones have very nasty effects indeed on mammals, partly because we are more closely related to fungi than plants. Its not all that much better for the professional. Better? Benomyl (Benlate) was banned because it is teratogenic (i.e. children born to women exposed to it in early pregnancy sometimes had no eyes). This was observed only in glasshouse workers. What was Whitehall's reaction? To ban it for domestic use - it is still permitted in commercial horticulture. And then its also down to this "Nanny State" where Rose clear was removed from sale as One Fool managed to get concentrate into his/her eye and it caused Irritation.... no lasting damage....... but ..... in something like 12 years of use it was the first incident reported.. It is a little more serious than that. I agree that it was an excessive reaction, because there are a lot of common chemicals that will cause blindness if got in the eye. Oven cleaners for one. So it's back to things like Bordeaux Mixture (Lime and Sulphur) Copper Etc Will have to dig out my old books... They are one hell of a lot safer for humans. The lethal dose of copper is something over a gram, and a minor overdose will rarely cause long term damage. Copper is an essential trace element, after all. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
What happened to all the fungicides?
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What happened to all the fungicides?
In article ,
martin wrote: On 26 Jun 2003 20:58:05 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote: They are one hell of a lot safer for humans. The lethal dose of copper is something over a gram, and a minor overdose will rarely cause long term damage. Copper is an essential trace element, after all. The Dutch are concerned about the high levels of copper in the ground water. Nothing is safe in excess. Banning copper-based fungicides for private use will do nothing about that problem, but it is the sort of solution that Whitehall adopts. I know little about the Dutch bureaucracy. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
What happened to all the fungicides?
".........So it's back to things like Bordeaux Mixture (Lime and Sulphur)
Copper Etc Will have to dig out my old books... .........." "........They are one hell of a lot safer for humans. ........" Are they???????? Very intensively used as an insecticide around 1900's,1910's, 1920's, 1930's, was Paris Green This was an Arsenic based compound. Then we had DDT........ Yes lets bring back the old remedies -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
What happened to all the fungicides?
David Hill wrote:
".........So it's back to things like Bordeaux Mixture (Lime and Sulphur) Copper Etc Will have to dig out my old books... .........." "........They are one hell of a lot safer for humans. ........" Are they???????? Very intensively used as an insecticide around 1900's,1910's, 1920's, 1930's, was Paris Green This was an Arsenic based compound. Then we had DDT........ Yes lets bring back the old remedies Yes discovered *relatively* recently in the history of Horticulture in most cases. // Jim |
What happened to all the fungicides?
In article , "David Hill" writes: | ".........So it's back to things like Bordeaux Mixture (Lime and Sulphur) | Copper Etc | Will have to dig out my old books... .........." | | "........They are one hell of a lot safer for humans. ........" | | Are they???????? | Very intensively used as an insecticide around 1900's,1910's, 1920's, | 1930's, was Paris Green | This was an Arsenic based compound. | Then we had DDT........ | | Yes lets bring back the old remedies Clot. It is 40 years since I did chemistry, but I am aware that arsenic and copper are different elements. Perhaps you have forgotten. And DDT is a recent (mid-20th century) organochloride, not a metal-based pesticide. Furthermore, I should appreciate not quoting me out of context. Here is the real context: So it's back to things like Bordeaux Mixture (Lime and Sulphur) Copper Etc Will have to dig out my old books... They are one hell of a lot safer for humans. The lethal dose of copper is something over a gram, and a minor overdose will rarely cause long term damage. Copper is an essential trace element, after all. The simple fact is that the copper-based fungicides are one hell of a lot safer for humans than any of the effective organic systemic fungicides. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
What happened to all the fungicides?
In article , martin writes: | | The Dutch are concerned about the high levels of copper in the ground | water. | | Nothing is safe in excess. Banning copper-based fungicides for private | use will do nothing about that problem, | | reducing the amount of copper used in general and especially in | agriculture will do something towards reducing the problem That is true, but banning it only for private use will not do anything significant. | but it is the sort of solution | that Whitehall adopts. I know little about the Dutch bureaucracy. | | They banned copper antifouling for boats for two years. A reasonable decision. There is a lot of copper used on even a small boat. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
What happened to all the fungicides?
Steady on Nick I was also quoting myself when I said "Back to things like
Bordeaux Mixture" Paris Green and DDT were both in use at the time Bordeaux mix was. Yes DDT was used from about 1940, and to many 60+ years is a long time ago. Also The first Organochlorides date back to late 1800's And I quote... "....DDT the first of the chlorinated organic insecticides, was originally prepared in 1873, but it was not until 1939 that Paul Muller of Geigy Pharmaceutical in Switzerland discovered the effectiveness of DDT as an insecticide ...." Probably the answer is a bit of Genetic engineering to make plants resistant to pests......... Before any one shouts....... many plants have wild relatives that are resistant to pests so it could be done without crossing any species boundaries....... David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
What happened to all the fungicides?
"Jim W" wrote in message news:1fx6bfx.jqtg1714eppk6N%00senetnospamtodayta@m acunlimited.net... Amber wrote: "David Hill" wrote in message ... We can blame it on the EEC (or what ever it's present name is) All chemicals have to be retested and for many firms the cost is not worth it for a lot of the chemicals used in the Armature market. Its not all that much better for the professional. And then its also down to this "Nanny State" where Rose clear was removed from sale as One Fool managed to get concentrate into his/her eye and it caused Irritation.... no lasting damage....... but ..... in something like 12 years of use it was the first incident reported.. So it's back to things like Bordeaux Mixture (Lime and Sulphur) Copper Etc Will have to dig out my old books... has anyone got any recommendations of what product to use on food stuffs or are they all much the same? One thats recomended & licenced for use on vegetable and for that particular pest. They all have labels that you should read before use. Anything specific in mind?? densley packed plants with mildew - lemon balm and something that for the minute escapes me to name. Also black spot on a climbing ros thats nr rosemary. |
What happened to all the fungicides?
"Amber" wrote in message ... Anything specific in mind?? densley packed plants with mildew - lemon balm and something that for the minute escapes me to name. Also black spot on a climbing ros thats nr rosemary. Wouldn't it be simpler to alter the way you grow stuff and/or not grow the worst effected plants at all? I can't remember when the last time I used a fungicide in the garden was, I do use something for botrytis in my propagating house, so I am not anti chemicals just can't ever seem to get around to spray in the garden :~) -- Charlie, gardening in Cornwall. http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs) |
What happened to all the fungicides?
Charlie Pridham wrote:
"Amber" wrote in message ... Anything specific in mind?? densley packed plants with mildew - lemon balm and something that for the minute escapes me to name. Also black spot on a climbing ros thats nr rosemary. Wouldn't it be simpler to alter the way you grow stuff and/or not grow the worst effected plants at all? I can't remember when the last time I used a fungicide in the garden was, I do use something for botrytis in my propagating house, so I am not anti chemicals just can't ever seem to get around to spray in the garden :~) LOL I think I said something similar back earlier in the thread.. I also noted the 'densley packed' Ideal for mildew.. I believe both milk and bicarb of soda have negative effects on mildew. Is it powdery or downy? Likley to be the former I think. Blackspot on roses.. Take of and dispose of affected leaves when seen.. Don't leave any clippings lying around.. Spray with a suitable winter wash out of season. Even a comfrey/nettle mixture can do good when combined with physical control. Its not approved/licenced but its not 'controlled' either.. Something thats been covered a while back. Botrytis is another beast all together but again can be reduced by good conditions and cleanliness to start with.. Not that I'm saying I'm a saint with either in the garden.. As guilty as the next person;-)))) // Jim |
What happened to all the fungicides?
"Jim W" wrote in message news:1fx6bfx.jqtg1714eppk6N%00senetnospamtodayta@m acunlimited.net... Amber wrote: "David Hill" wrote in message ... We can blame it on the EEC (or what ever it's present name is) All chemicals have to be retested and for many firms the cost is not worth it for a lot of the chemicals used in the Armature market. Its not all that much better for the professional. And then its also down to this "Nanny State" where Rose clear was removed from sale as One Fool managed to get concentrate into his/her eye and it caused Irritation.... no lasting damage....... but ..... in something like 12 years of use it was the first incident reported.. So it's back to things like Bordeaux Mixture (Lime and Sulphur) Copper Etc Will have to dig out my old books... has anyone got any recommendations of what product to use on food stuffs or are they all much the same? One thats recomended & licenced for use on vegetable and for that particular pest. They all have labels that you should read before use. Anything specific in mind?? oops sorry missed the last bit! Its really that I have problems with thick growth in densely packed beds and this is why I found systemics worked well for me as the mode of action didn't involve trying to spray every last leaf. Do I need to get something specific to apply with as I am presuming it needs contact with all infected areas? |
What happened to all the fungicides?
"Jim W" wrote in message news:1fx6bfx.jqtg1714eppk6N%00senetnospamtodayta@m acunlimited.net... Amber wrote: "David Hill" wrote in message ... We can blame it on the EEC (or what ever it's present name is) All chemicals have to be retested and for many firms the cost is not worth it for a lot of the chemicals used in the Armature market. Its not all that much better for the professional. And then its also down to this "Nanny State" where Rose clear was removed from sale as One Fool managed to get concentrate into his/her eye and it caused Irritation.... no lasting damage....... but ..... in something like 12 years of use it was the first incident reported.. So it's back to things like Bordeaux Mixture (Lime and Sulphur) Copper Etc Will have to dig out my old books... has anyone got any recommendations of what product to use on food stuffs or are they all much the same? One thats recomended & licenced for use on vegetable and for that particular pest. They all have labels that you should read before use. Anything specific in mind?? oops sorry missed the last bit! Its really that I have problems with thick growth in densely packed beds and this is why I found systemics worked well for me as the mode of action didn't involve trying to spray every last leaf. Do I need to get something specific to apply with as I am presuming it needs contact with all infected areas? |
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