Looks like we're being listened to
 

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 15:59:28 +0100, Mike
wrote:

In article , JennyC
writes

"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote in message
...
In article , JennyC
writes
Surely the web is just as reliable or not as other sources
........?

The WWW as a whole is well down on the list of reliability, as is
UseNet. (There's very little quality control on either.) Some bits
are
good, others are nonsense, and one has to be able to tell the
difference.

But HOW ??
Jenny


By not quite 'believing' fully the first time you read something, but to
continue your research into the matter further.

Just been a very interesting thread on uk.people.ex-forces where someone
said they were going to dive on H.M.S.Falmouth. There was a discussion
about it and an ex crew member came on line and said 'My old ship', I
posted details of the H.M.S.Falmouth of the 1960's and he said 'Yup,
that's her'

We could have all gone away 'believing' this was the one we were all
talking about, but it turned out we were all wrong, it was the
H.M.S.Falmouth which was hit by 2 torpedoes at 4.52 on August 19th 1916
and headed for home, but was hit twice again off Flamborough Head by
another U Boat.

So whilst the research could have ended with one ship, further questions
proved that to be wrong. About 5 people joined into this conversation
feeding a bit here and a bit there to make the full picture.

I have had something similar recently regarding the aircraft carrier
Karel Dorman, there have been two of them since the war.
--
martin

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In article , martin
writes

I have had something similar recently regarding the aircraft carrier
Karel Dorman, there have been two of them since the war.

and just to add even more confusion, whilst at the time I made my
posting re the 1960's H.M.S.Falmouth and was 'certain' I was on the same
one, there was an H.M.S.Falmouth during the Second World War!! BUT, she
was broken up in Blyth in 1968 so I 'knew' she wasn't the one!!!

The Ministry of Defence and the Royal Navy Pay and Pensions group send
people to me who are researching Father's Brother's etc Service time and
unless I 'know' for certain which age, era and ships they are talking
about, it is very difficult to give accurate information.

And now that I am involved with the Royal Air Force via the National
Service (Royal Air Force) Association, I am getting all sorts of
questions there!! :-)) Very fortunately I have a wealth of contacts in
the RAFA and RAF Associations, once again proving that one does not
believe 'for certain' the first but of information, but digs deeper!!

Mike

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forthcoming reunions.
British Pacific Fleet Hayling Island Sept 5th - 8th
Castle Class Corvettes Assn. Isle of Wight. Oct 3rd - 6th.
R.N. Trafalgar Weekend Leamington Spa. Oct 10th - 13th. Plus many more

Looks like we're being listened to
 

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 16:42:00 +0100, Mike
wrote:

In article , martin
writes

I have had something similar recently regarding the aircraft carrier
Karel Dorman, there have been two of them since the war.

and just to add even more confusion, whilst at the time I made my
posting re the 1960's H.M.S.Falmouth and was 'certain' I was on the same
one, there was an H.M.S.Falmouth during the Second World War!! BUT, she
was broken up in Blyth in 1968 so I 'knew' she wasn't the one!!!

The Ministry of Defence and the Royal Navy Pay and Pensions group send
people to me who are researching Father's Brother's etc Service time and
unless I 'know' for certain which age, era and ships they are talking
about, it is very difficult to give accurate information.

And now that I am involved with the Royal Air Force via the National
Service (Royal Air Force) Association, I am getting all sorts of
questions there!! :-)) Very fortunately I have a wealth of contacts in
the RAFA and RAF Associations, once again proving that one does not
believe 'for certain' the first but of information, but digs deeper!!

Jane's Fighting Ships is very useful.
--
martin

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In article , martin
writes

Jane's Fighting Ships is very useful.

:-)

Are we talking Jane's 'all the years through'? :-(( Very expensive and
beyond me ;-(

Jane's W.W.I?

or

Jane's WWII? Got a copy, but find that 'The Dictionary of Ships of the
Royal Navy of the Second World War' by John Young, (donated to me by a
very generous shipmate) far more detailed.

Another book I purchased, is 'Shore Establishments of the Royal Navy' by
Lt Cdr B. Warlow RN (He was a Sub.Lt when he served with me on
H.M.S.Gambia in 1959) which lists shore establishments back to the year
dot :-)

Mike

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forthcoming reunions.
British Pacific Fleet Hayling Island Sept 5th - 8th
Castle Class Corvettes Assn. Isle of Wight. Oct 3rd - 6th.
R.N. Trafalgar Weekend Leamington Spa. Oct 10th - 13th. Plus many more

Looks like we're being listened to
 

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:08:05 +0100, Mike
wrote:

In article , martin
writes

Jane's Fighting Ships is very useful.

:-)

Are we talking Jane's 'all the years through'? :-(( Very expensive and
beyond me ;-(

I have two, Jane's Fighting Ships of WWII that was remaindered and
JFS 1972 from a jumble sale.

another good source for any second hand book is

http://dogbert.abebooks.com

You can even find gardening books this way back OT

--
martin

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In article , martin
writes

You can even find gardening books this way back OT


Boom Boom ;-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forthcoming reunions.
British Pacific Fleet Hayling Island Sept 5th - 8th
Castle Class Corvettes Assn. Isle of Wight. Oct 3rd - 6th.
R.N. Trafalgar Weekend Leamington Spa. Oct 10th - 13th. Plus many more

Looks like we're being listened to
 

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 17:26:24 +0100, Mike
wrote:

In article , martin
writes

You can even find gardening books this way back OT


Boom Boom ;-)

did you try using it? There are lots of JFS in UK second hand
bookshops some even cheap.
--
martin

Looks like we're being listened to
 

In article , JennyC
writes
The WWW as a whole is well down on the list of reliability, as is
UseNet. (There's very little quality control on either.) Some bits
are
good, others are nonsense, and one has to be able to tell the
difference.

But HOW ??

I don't see that there's a difference in principle between evaluating
information on the Net and elsewhere, but the Net has a greater
proportion of more outright malicious, fraudulent or dishonest material
than most other media.

Google evaluating quality information InterNet gives a long list of
pages on how to evaluate information on the net. (Of course, there is
the question as to how to ascertain which of these are reliable. :-) )

But there probably better than an attempt by myself to crystallise the
unformalised processes I practice, and anyway university librarians are
a more authoritative source on the topic than myself.

See also my "Bulletin Board Bestiary" page (semi-humerous) at

http://www.meden.demon.co.uk/Articles/bestiary.html

for various sources of noise, as opposed to signal, on discussion
groups.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Looks like we're being listened to
 

"Stewart Robert Hinsley" wrote
JennyC writes
The WWW as a whole is well down on the list of reliability, as is
UseNet. (There's very little quality control on either.) Some
bits
are good, others are nonsense, and one has to be able to tell the
difference.

But HOW ??

I don't see that there's a difference in principle between
evaluating
information on the Net and elsewhere, but the Net has a greater
proportion of more outright malicious, fraudulent or dishonest
material
than most other media.

Google evaluating quality information InterNet gives a long list of
pages on how to evaluate information on the net. (Of course, there
is
the question as to how to ascertain which of these are reliable.
:-) )

But there probably better than an attempt by myself to crystallise
the
unformalised processes I practice, and anyway university librarians
are
a more authoritative source on the topic than myself.

See also my "Bulletin Board Bestiary" page (semi-humerous) at

http://www.meden.demon.co.uk/Articles/bestiary.html

for various sources of noise, as opposed to signal, on discussion
groups. Stewart Robert Hinsley


Thanks for the info Stewart, but after looking at a few "how to
evaluate the info" sites, I think I'll go back to relying on my
'shoulder blade intuition' :~))
Jenny

PS Nice site you have ( huge !!!)

Looks like we're being listened to
 

The message
from "JennyC" contains these words:

"Janet Baraclough" wrote

Imho trawling usenet archives for unverifiable soundbites hardly
counts as research...or even, professional journalism :~}
Janet.

So what counts as serious research Janet ?
Surely the web is just as reliable or not as other sources ........?

I referred to archives of usenet discussion groups, where misguided
advice or opinion from an inexperienced ignoramus is recorded together
with the careful observations of those who have learned from experience.
A "researcher" with no personal knowledge of a particular field,would
have the greatest difficulty in sorting the wheat from the chaff, and
any conclusions he drew would therefore be suspect.

Janet

Looks like we're being listened to
 

In article ,
says...
The message
from "JennyC" contains these words:

"Janet Baraclough" wrote

Imho trawling usenet archives for unverifiable soundbites hardly
counts as research...or even, professional journalism :~}
Janet.

So what counts as serious research Janet ?
Surely the web is just as reliable or not as other sources ........?

I referred to archives of usenet discussion groups, where misguided
advice or opinion from an inexperienced ignoramus is recorded together
with the careful observations of those who have learned from experience.
A "researcher" with no personal knowledge of a particular field,would
have the greatest difficulty in sorting the wheat from the chaff, and
any conclusions he drew would therefore be suspect.

Going back to the original article though. The vast concensus of this
group over many threads through the last few years is that the software
isn't up to it yet. The article pointed out that some in this group held
that opinion. As far as research goes that is limited, maybe the
journalist looked at the posting profiles and selected posts of those he
chose to quote maybe not.

A couple of years ago I received an email from the FTC (Federal Trade
Comission) and was able to verify that it was indeed from a US
government server and likely to be a US government employee this was due
to them researching posts on browser hijacking and pop=up/unders by a
prolific registrant of tyop domains (such as e.g. gogle.com).

Since I'm a cynic, I did all of the research necessary to confirm the
lady was who she claimed to be (failed to give her my phone number until
I'd ignored the number she gave me and dialled the FTC head office in
Washington to check that this was a DDI number for an employee by that
name.

Although she only quoted the one post I'd made in one group, she had a
full file of all the posts I'd ever made and pointed out that the entire
lot ensured that although my one post (and the written statement I was
to provide) were the only things to be submitted to the courts, that
there was nothing in the file that showed I was anything but a dedicated
and fair minded network professional of impeccable character (ie they
couldn't find anything on me that the defence lawyer would look for to
discredit me).

The article in the Indy failed to give the names of the posters (bad
journalist not giving credit for copyright material), but did reflect
the general opinion of the majority of the group correctly. That the
internet in general is a minefield of opinion I won't argue with, but in
this case, whether by accident or design, the journalist accurately
reported a fragment of information in that fragment of the article.

Recently I've been doing much research into home births and hire of
birthing pools. I've taken all reviews with a healthy dose of scepticism
and the finalists on my shortlist all got phonecalls as well, but I
doubt that if I didn't have such a resource at my fingertips, that we'd
even have considered something so out of the normal scheme of things.

OB Gardening After the healthy dose of rain on Friday night I'd not
watered the hanging baskets or the greenhouse on Saturday.. A brief look
around the garden at 2pm had the hosepipe out to some slightly soory
looking plants


Warwick --

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In article MPG.19698ab573da6a169897bf@lateinos, Warwick
writes
OB Gardening After the healthy dose of rain on Friday night I'd not
watered the hanging baskets or the greenhouse on Saturday.. A brief look
around the garden at 2pm had the hosepipe out to some slightly soory
looking plants

And today it's going to rain :-)
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Looks like we're being listened to
 

In article , Kay Easton
writes
In article MPG.19698ab573da6a169897bf@lateinos, Warwick
writes
OB Gardening After the healthy dose of rain on Friday night I'd not
watered the hanging baskets or the greenhouse on Saturday.. A brief look
around the garden at 2pm had the hosepipe out to some slightly soory
looking plants

And today it's going to rain :-)

and today it 'is' raining
Isle of Wight

Mike
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forthcoming reunions.
British Pacific Fleet Hayling Island Sept 5th - 8th
Castle Class Corvettes Assn. Isle of Wight. Oct 3rd - 6th.
R.N. Trafalgar Weekend Leamington Spa. Oct 10th - 13th. Plus many more

Looks like we're being listened to
 

In article ,
says...
In article MPG.19698ab573da6a169897bf@lateinos, Warwick
writes
OB Gardening After the healthy dose of rain on Friday night I'd not
watered the hanging baskets or the greenhouse on Saturday.. A brief look
around the garden at 2pm had the hosepipe out to some slightly soory
looking plants

And today it's going to rain :-)

*mutter* *mumble* *curse*....

Ah well they needed water kinda immediately and stopped wilting within
10 minutes and it didn't rain inside the greenhouse. I'm glad I didn't
do all of the planters too though.

Warwick

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Janet Baraclough wrote:

The message
from "JennyC" contains these words:

"Janet Baraclough" wrote

Imho trawling usenet archives for unverifiable soundbites hardly
counts as research...or even, professional journalism :~}
Janet.

So what counts as serious research Janet ?
Surely the web is just as reliable or not as other sources ........?

I referred to archives of usenet discussion groups, where misguided
advice or opinion from an inexperienced ignoramus is recorded together
with the careful observations of those who have learned from experience.
A "researcher" with no personal knowledge of a particular field,would
have the greatest difficulty in sorting the wheat from the chaff, and
any conclusions he drew would therefore be suspect.

Janet

And who ever said journalists were 'professional' LOL;-))
//
J