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Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote: No- not amazing. You've just proved that it's perfectly safe if you follow the instructions on the can. Just like pesticides ;-) Sorry, but that's not true... organochlorines aren't 'perfectly safe' whether you follow the instructions on the tin or not :-/ Sorry, that's not true. PVC is an organochlorine and is 'perfectly safe' unless you start burning it. Which organochlorines in which tins are you suggesting ain't perfectly safe? I'll get my chair ... My tame biochemist is unable to think of any organochlorines that are safe for mammals in large quantities. Though my reaction is that most would be if you follow the directions on a tin that said: CAUTION: do not open tin, do not allow tin to become damaged or corroded, do not pass GO and do not collect 200 pounds .... Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
anton wrote:
sw wrote in message ... anton wrote: Mary Fisher wrote in message .. . Is urine poisonous? Of course- in sufficient quantity. Just like pesticides. Gosh. I've had gallons and gallons of urine in my body over sixty odd years and I'm still around. My mum is ninety one. Amazing. No- not amazing. You've just proved that it's perfectly safe if you follow the instructions on the can. Just like pesticides ;-) Sorry, but that's not true... organochlorines aren't 'perfectly safe' whether you follow the instructions on the tin or not :-/ Sorry, that's not true. PVC is an organochlorine and is 'perfectly safe' unless you start burning it. PVC is generally regarded as a pesticide, is it? Which organochlorines in which tins are you suggesting ain't perfectly safe? DDT, aldrin, dieldrin... just ask an otter. Or a bird of prey. regards sarah -- Think of it as evolution in action. |
Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote: No- not amazing. You've just proved that it's perfectly safe if you follow the instructions on the can. Just like pesticides ;-) Sorry, but that's not true... organochlorines aren't 'perfectly safe' whether you follow the instructions on the tin or not :-/ Sorry, that's not true. PVC is an organochlorine and is 'perfectly safe' unless you start burning it. Which organochlorines in which tins are you suggesting ain't perfectly safe? I'll get my chair ... My tame biochemist is unable to think of any organochlorines that are safe for mammals in large quantities. Though my reaction is that most would be if you follow the directions on a tin that said: CAUTION: do not open tin, do not allow tin to become damaged or corroded, do not pass GO and do not collect 200 pounds .... Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
Nick Maclaren wrote in message ... In article , Mary Fisher wrote: No- not amazing. You've just proved that it's perfectly safe if you follow the instructions on the can. Just like pesticides ;-) Sorry, but that's not true... organochlorines aren't 'perfectly safe' whether you follow the instructions on the tin or not :-/ Sorry, that's not true. PVC is an organochlorine and is 'perfectly safe' unless you start burning it. Which organochlorines in which tins are you suggesting ain't perfectly safe? I'll get my chair ... My tame biochemist is unable to think of any organochlorines that are safe for mammals in large quantities. Er- we seem to have an instance of moving goalposts. Safe 'if you follow the instructions on the tin' was the original target, not 'safe for mammals in large quantities'. Try this one: http://www.inchem.org/documents/hsg/...tionNumber:2.2 -- Anton |
Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
sw wrote in message ... anton wrote: sw wrote in message ... anton wrote: Mary Fisher wrote in message .. . Is urine poisonous? Of course- in sufficient quantity. Just like pesticides. Gosh. I've had gallons and gallons of urine in my body over sixty odd years and I'm still around. My mum is ninety one. Amazing. No- not amazing. You've just proved that it's perfectly safe if you follow the instructions on the can. Just like pesticides ;-) Sorry, but that's not true... organochlorines aren't 'perfectly safe' whether you follow the instructions on the tin or not :-/ Sorry, that's not true. PVC is an organochlorine and is 'perfectly safe' unless you start burning it. PVC is generally regarded as a pesticide, is it? Which organochlorines in which tins are you suggesting ain't perfectly safe? DDT, aldrin, dieldrin... just ask an otter. Or a bird of prey. OK. Dear Mr Otter, Please tell me where you have seen a tin of DDT or aldrin or dieldrin recently, so that I can check the instructions on the tin. If like me you can't find any, please let sw know which decade we're in. Yours, -- Anton |
Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 22:10:25 +0000 (UTC), "anton"
wrote: sw wrote in message ... anton wrote: sw wrote in message ... anton wrote: Mary Fisher wrote in message .. . Is urine poisonous? Of course- in sufficient quantity. Just like pesticides. Gosh. I've had gallons and gallons of urine in my body over sixty odd years and I'm still around. My mum is ninety one. Amazing. No- not amazing. You've just proved that it's perfectly safe if you follow the instructions on the can. Just like pesticides ;-) Sorry, but that's not true... organochlorines aren't 'perfectly safe' whether you follow the instructions on the tin or not :-/ Sorry, that's not true. PVC is an organochlorine and is 'perfectly safe' unless you start burning it. PVC is generally regarded as a pesticide, is it? Which organochlorines in which tins are you suggesting ain't perfectly safe? DDT, aldrin, dieldrin... just ask an otter. Or a bird of prey. OK. Dear Mr Otter, Please tell me where you have seen a tin of DDT or aldrin or dieldrin recently, so that I can check the instructions on the tin. If like me you can't find any, please let sw know which decade we're in. Yours, http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/mom/ddt/ddt.html "The use of DDT was banned in the United States in 1973, although it is still in use in some other parts of the world. The buildup of DDT in natural waters is a reverisble process: the EPA reported a 90% reduction of DDT in Lake Michigan fish by 1978 as a result of the ban." and http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,55843,00.html -- Martin |
Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
In article , martin writes: | | http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/mom/ddt/ddt.html | | "The use of DDT was banned in the United States in 1973, although it | is still in use in some other parts of the world. The buildup of DDT | in natural waters is a reverisble process: the EPA reported a 90% | reduction of DDT in Lake Michigan fish by 1978 as a result of the | ban." | | and | http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,55843,00.html If I recall correctly, it was still INCREASING in some Arctic animals well into the 1990s. While the process is reversible, the timescale is very long. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
In article , martin writes: | On 31 Jul 2003 08:47:26 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote: | In article , | martin writes: | | | | http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/mom/ddt/ddt.html | | | | "The use of DDT was banned in the United States in 1973, although it | | is still in use in some other parts of the world. The buildup of DDT | | in natural waters is a reverisble process: the EPA reported a 90% | | reduction of DDT in Lake Michigan fish by 1978 as a result of the | | ban." | | | | and | | http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,55843,00.html | | If I recall correctly, it was still INCREASING in some Arctic animals | well into the 1990s. While the process is reversible, the timescale | is very long. | | Do you know how many million people die of malaria every year? About 60, I think. However, the human race is in no great danger of becoming extinct - at least from that cause. Furthermore, do you know how many strains of mosquito were/are developing resistance to DDT? Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
anton wrote:
Nick Maclaren wrote in message ... In article , Mary Fisher wrote: No- not amazing. You've just proved that it's perfectly safe if you follow the instructions on the can. Just like pesticides ;-) Sorry, but that's not true... organochlorines aren't 'perfectly safe' whether you follow the instructions on the tin or not :-/ Sorry, that's not true. PVC is an organochlorine and is 'perfectly safe' unless you start burning it. Which organochlorines in which tins are you suggesting ain't perfectly safe? I'll get my chair ... My tame biochemist is unable to think of any organochlorines that are safe for mammals in large quantities. Er- we seem to have an instance of moving goalposts. Safe 'if you follow the instructions on the tin' was the original target, not 'safe for mammals in large quantities'. Do you know the meaning of the word 'bioaccumulative'? Why is it significant that organochlorines such as aldrin and dieldrin have 'half-lives' measured in years? regards sarah -- Think of it as evolution in action. |
Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
sw wrote in message ... anton wrote: sw wrote in message ... anton wrote: sw wrote in message ... anton wrote: Mary Fisher wrote in message .. . Is urine poisonous? Of course- in sufficient quantity. Just like pesticides. Gosh. I've had gallons and gallons of urine in my body over sixty odd years and I'm still around. My mum is ninety one. Amazing. No- not amazing. You've just proved that it's perfectly safe if you follow the instructions on the can. Just like pesticides ;-) Sorry, but that's not true... organochlorines aren't 'perfectly safe' whether you follow the instructions on the tin or not :-/ Sorry, that's not true. PVC is an organochlorine and is 'perfectly safe' unless you start burning it. PVC is generally regarded as a pesticide, is it? Which organochlorines in which tins are you suggesting ain't perfectly safe? DDT, aldrin, dieldrin... just ask an otter. Or a bird of prey. OK. Dear Mr Otter, Please tell me where you have seen a tin of DDT or aldrin or dieldrin recently, so that I can check the instructions on the tin. If like me you can't find any, please let sw know which decade we're in. Ah, sarcasm. Traditional refuge of the ill-informed. Tins of these these (and more besides) are still readily available in parts of Africa and elsewhere; and the instructions on the tin are? the substances themselves are persistent in the environments of countries in which they were banned. Yes. Returning to the point, compare and contrast the dangers to the user of current pesticides when properly used with: a) previously used pesticides, such as lead arsenate b) other household chemicals c) urine -- Anton |
Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
(Nick Maclaren) wrote in message ...
In article , martin writes: | On 31 Jul 2003 08:47:26 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote: | In article , | martin writes: | | | | http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/mom/ddt/ddt.html | | | | "The use of DDT was banned in the United States in 1973, although it | | is still in use in some other parts of the world. The buildup of DDT | | in natural waters is a reverisble process: the EPA reported a 90% | | reduction of DDT in Lake Michigan fish by 1978 as a result of the | | ban." | | | | and | | http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,55843,00.html | | If I recall correctly, it was still INCREASING in some Arctic animals | well into the 1990s. While the process is reversible, the timescale | is very long. | | Do you know how many million people die of malaria every year? About 60, I think. However, the human race is in no great danger of becoming extinct - at least from that cause. Furthermore, do you know how many strains of mosquito were/are developing resistance to DDT? And in any case, to get back to "the instructions on the tin", we have a right to take a very conservative attitude to agro-chemicals: I can't think of an example of a newly-introduced chemical compound (as opposed to one in the presence of which mammals have evolved, though some of them turn out nasty, too) which hasn't progressively had its safe level reduced as we found out more about it. There must be some examples, I imagine; but I can't think of them. People don't always follow the instructions, even if they can read the language on the tin, and that's if they can read at all. I remember being sprayed, like everybody else in a room full of university graduates, with old-fashioned Flit in the Middle East: I was the only person in there who knew it was a bad idea. God knows what was in the flea-powder people used sometimes to put in their beds. I've seen spray-drift from British operations often enough, too. All I ask is caution: as near organic as you can reasonably get in your particular circumstances. Irrelevant arguments about drinking pee, and the harmful effects of next-door's oak-leaves, strike me as an attempt to avoid the issue. Mike. |
Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
sw wrote in message ... anton wrote: Nick Maclaren wrote in message ... In article , Mary Fisher wrote: No- not amazing. You've just proved that it's perfectly safe if you follow the instructions on the can. Just like pesticides ;-) Sorry, but that's not true... organochlorines aren't 'perfectly safe' whether you follow the instructions on the tin or not :-/ Sorry, that's not true. PVC is an organochlorine and is 'perfectly safe' unless you start burning it. Which organochlorines in which tins are you suggesting ain't perfectly safe? I'll get my chair ... My tame biochemist is unable to think of any organochlorines that are safe for mammals in large quantities. Er- we seem to have an instance of moving goalposts. Safe 'if you follow the instructions on the tin' was the original target, not 'safe for mammals in large quantities'. Do you know the meaning of the word 'bioaccumulative'? Yes. Munch on this ragwort. Why is it significant that organochlorines such as aldrin and dieldrin have 'half-lives' measured in years? With respect to this argument, the half-lives of those compounds are of no significance whatsoever.. My suggestion was that (garden) pesticides are perfectly safe if instructions are followed. My suggestion was _not_ that previous generations of pesticides were safe, so don't bother me with aldrin and dieldrin, or I'll tell you about lead arsenate. Clearly in the light of the toxicity of water itself my 'perfectly' is an exaggeration, and I'll withdraw it if you like. There are some serious health issues on the subject of pesticides- the use of organophosphates by sheep farmers for instance- but these hardly apply on a garden scale. To return to the point, the kneejerk classification of synthetic pesticides as 'poisons' is merely hysterical when there are so many natural poisons in the garden, and so many other 'poisons' in all other aspects of modern life. -- Anton |
Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
On 31 Jul 2003 08:47:26 GMT, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article , martin writes: | | http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/mom/ddt/ddt.html | | "The use of DDT was banned in the United States in 1973, although it | is still in use in some other parts of the world. The buildup of DDT | in natural waters is a reverisble process: the EPA reported a 90% | reduction of DDT in Lake Michigan fish by 1978 as a result of the | ban." | | and | http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,55843,00.html If I recall correctly, it was still INCREASING in some Arctic animals well into the 1990s. While the process is reversible, the timescale is very long. The problem gets worse the higher up the food chain you go. Krill eats plankton, shrimp eats krill, fish eats shrimp, seal eats fish, Eskimo eats seal, polar bear eats Eskimo. Guess who carries the biggest load of chlorinated crap in their body fat? [I may be completely confused on who eats who in the world of krill and plankton.] *Bacteria* can break down organochlorines, but higher animals can't. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada |
Banned Herbicides & Pesticides
In article , anton
writes Yes. Returning to the point, compare and contrast the dangers to the user of current pesticides when properly used with: a) previously used pesticides, such as lead arsenate b) other household chemicals c) urine Where does(did) paraquat stand in this thread? -- Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs. |
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