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Rooting in a gel
About a decade and a half ago there was a sudden burst if interest amongst
amateur gardeners in the rooting of cuttings in a gel. Then, quite suddenly, it blew over and if you now talk about it in a garden centre, you are confronted with an uncomprehending gaze from the attendant. I experimented with it in a small way and was quite successful, achieving something like 70% success rate in the cuttings I tried. It was a neat way of avoiding having to see to the proper watering of the cuttings, and it made it possible to see the development of the roots without having to upset the cuttings in any way. Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? What was the gel which was used? [Franz Heymann] |
Rooting in a gel
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:20:14 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote: About a decade and a half ago there was a sudden burst if interest amongst amateur gardeners in the rooting of cuttings in a gel. Then, quite suddenly, it blew over and if you now talk about it in a garden centre, you are confronted with an uncomprehending gaze from the attendant. I experimented with it in a small way and was quite successful, achieving something like 70% success rate in the cuttings I tried. It was a neat way of avoiding having to see to the proper watering of the cuttings, and it made it possible to see the development of the roots without having to upset the cuttings in any way. Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? What was the gel which was used? plant gel see http://www.plantgel.com/ ignore the God Bless America stuff.......... -- Martin |
Rooting in a gel
"martin" wrote in message ... On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:20:14 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann" wrote: About a decade and a half ago there was a sudden burst if interest amongst amateur gardeners in the rooting of cuttings in a gel. Then, quite suddenly, it blew over and if you now talk about it in a garden centre, you are confronted with an uncomprehending gaze from the attendant. I experimented with it in a small way and was quite successful, achieving something like 70% success rate in the cuttings I tried. It was a neat way of avoiding having to see to the proper watering of the cuttings, and it made it possible to see the development of the roots without having to upset the cuttings in any way. Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? What was the gel which was used? plant gel see http://www.plantgel.com/ ignore the God Bless America stuff.......... Thanks for the URL. However, in the meantime, I have used Google to discover that there is still a kit available in the UK. It got quite a good write-up in the June issue of the RHS journal. It is called "Gel2root", and is available from Fothergills. The gel contains both a rooting agent and a sterilising agent. I have ordered a trial pack and will report when I have some results. [Franz Heymann] |
Rooting in a gel
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:11:43 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote: "martin" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:20:14 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann" wrote: About a decade and a half ago there was a sudden burst if interest amongst amateur gardeners in the rooting of cuttings in a gel. Then, quite suddenly, it blew over and if you now talk about it in a garden centre, you are confronted with an uncomprehending gaze from the attendant. I experimented with it in a small way and was quite successful, achieving something like 70% success rate in the cuttings I tried. It was a neat way of avoiding having to see to the proper watering of the cuttings, and it made it possible to see the development of the roots without having to upset the cuttings in any way. Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? What was the gel which was used? plant gel see http://www.plantgel.com/ ignore the God Bless America stuff.......... Thanks for the URL. However, in the meantime, I have used Google to discover that there is still a kit available in the UK. It got quite a good write-up in the June issue of the RHS journal. It is called "Gel2root", and is available from Fothergills. The gel contains both a rooting agent and a sterilising agent. I have ordered a trial pack and will report when I have some results. Most kids put it on their hair nowadays :-( -- Martin |
Rooting in a gel
"martin" wrote in message ... On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:11:43 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann" wrote: "martin" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:20:14 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann" wrote: About a decade and a half ago there was a sudden burst if interest amongst amateur gardeners in the rooting of cuttings in a gel. Then, quite suddenly, it blew over and if you now talk about it in a garden centre, you are confronted with an uncomprehending gaze from the attendant. I experimented with it in a small way and was quite successful, achieving something like 70% success rate in the cuttings I tried. It was a neat way of avoiding having to see to the proper watering of the cuttings, and it made it possible to see the development of the roots without having to upset the cuttings in any way. Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? What was the gel which was used? plant gel see http://www.plantgel.com/ ignore the God Bless America stuff.......... Thanks for the URL. However, in the meantime, I have used Google to discover that there is still a kit available in the UK. It got quite a good write-up in the June issue of the RHS journal. It is called "Gel2root", and is available from Fothergills. The gel contains both a rooting agent and a sterilising agent. I have ordered a trial pack and will report when I have some results. Most kids put it on their hair nowadays :-( If they wash, they don't need the sterilising agent, and if they have hair they don't need the rooting agent. {:-)) Franz |
Rooting in a gel
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 06:35:59 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote: Most kids put it on their hair nowadays :-( If they wash, they don't need the sterilising agent, and if they have hair they don't need the rooting agent. {:-)) telling them that it makes them go bald makes them think twice about using gel. "did you use gel when you were a kid?" "when did you go bald?" -- Martin |
Rooting in a gel
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Rooting in a gel
Jane Ransom wrote:
Possibly because people realised that, to root cuttings, you don't need gel or rooting hormones or anything else. All you need to do is do it at the right time in plain ordinary soil I was wondering along the same line... the 60% success rate in gel sounds pretty bad, depending on what was being rooted. I get nearly 100% on several varieties of Fuschia stuck in "Pro-Mix" (soilless compost mix; not even Innes secret formula #3.7a), as long as I don't forget to keep it damp! Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at www.albany.net/~gwoods Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1200' elevation. NY WO G |
Rooting in a gel
"Jane Ransom" wrote in message ... In article , Franz Heymann notfranz. writes Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? Possibly because people realised that, to root cuttings, you don't need gel or rooting hormones or anything else. All you need to do is do it at the right time in plain ordinary soil - well compost and sand if you want to be really finickity!!!!!! Many years ago I did a trial run, rooting Lithospermum cuttings in a gel, cutting compost, sharp sand and garden soil. The samples were not large enough to make a quantitative comparison, but for what it is worth, the gel came out best and the garden soil was worst. What I found most attractive about the gel was that the cuttings needed no attention at all other than looking to see if they had rooted. Moreover, this inspection could be done without disturbing the cuttings in any way. It occurred to me that one ought to try and replace the commercial gel with a thick wallpaper paste, made up with water plus a few drops of Benlate sterilising agent and a drop or two of liquid rooting hormone. Somehow, there were always something else to do, and this experiment was never done. Perhaps one of our readers is sufficiently experimentally minded to give it a try. Franz |
Rooting in a gel
Franz Heymann wrote:
About a decade and a half ago there was a sudden burst if interest amongst amateur gardeners in the rooting of cuttings in a gel. Then, quite suddenly, it blew over and if you now talk about it in a garden centre, you are confronted with an uncomprehending gaze from the attendant. I experimented with it in a small way and was quite successful, achieving something like 70% success rate in the cuttings I tried. It was a neat way of avoiding having to see to the proper watering of the cuttings, and it made it possible to see the development of the roots without having to upset the cuttings in any way. Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? Rot.. Its just not widely available on the domestic market.. How do you think they flood the market with 'new' cultivars? esp slower growers like roses.. They use micropropagation primarily which is effectily what you're describing though using only a few cells. Then they wean and grow on.. I spent a few days in a microprop lab at UCLANC where they carry out commercial contracts a few years ago.. I still have the roses that I grew from that part of the course module! 'Pink Perpetue' What was the gel which was used? Its ususally an agar gel base which you can buy in any health food store or catering supplier.. Its a suitable vegetarian alternative to gelatine. It comes from an algae/seaweed I believe. I still ahve the notes and the 'Recipes' here.. We used V8 (again, health food store, its basically carrot juice) as the nutrient supply.. Though we DID use synthesised plant hormones to encourage root cells. Not all plants have enough from such tiny samples. Of course if you are using normal size cuttings then it won't matter so much. If you look up mocroprop there are plenty of sites with 'heath robinson' type setups.. Orchid growers use it a fair bit I believe. Certainly the supplies I obtainable.. A company called 'Wilder' in the US used to do a full kit. I've seen the ready prepared 'gel pots' for cuttings where you just stick them through a foil lid quite recently! // Jim |
Rooting in a gel
"Kay Easton" wrote in message ... In article , Franz Heymann notfranz. writes Thanks for the URL. However, in the meantime, I have used Google to discover that there is still a kit available in the UK. It got quite a good write-up in the June issue of the RHS journal. It is called "Gel2root", and is available from Fothergills. The gel contains both a rooting agent and a sterilising agent. I have ordered a trial pack and will report when I have some results. let us know, not just how well they rooted, but how well the transition from gel to soil went. It isn't always easy to transfer to soil cuttings which have rooted in water, so I wondered whether there may be the same problem with gel. Yes, I will. The previous time when I tried it, there was less problem than with transferring cuttings rooted in cuttings compost or sand, because the gel cuttings pulled out of the rooting medium with a protective ball of gel attached to the rootlets, and there was no problem potting a cutting up into a compost with a pre-prepared hole and filling it just gently with soil. After a few waterings the soil became properly consolidated. Franz |
Rooting in a gel
"Kay Easton" wrote in message ... In article , Franz Heymann notfranz. writes Thanks for the URL. However, in the meantime, I have used Google to discover that there is still a kit available in the UK. It got quite a good write-up in the June issue of the RHS journal. It is called "Gel2root", and is available from Fothergills. The gel contains both a rooting agent and a sterilising agent. I have ordered a trial pack and will report when I have some results. let us know, not just how well they rooted, but how well the transition from gel to soil went. It isn't always easy to transfer to soil cuttings which have rooted in water, so I wondered whether there may be the same problem with gel. Yes, I will. The previous time when I tried it, there was less problem than with transferring cuttings rooted in cuttings compost or sand, because the gel cuttings pulled out of the rooting medium with a protective ball of gel attached to the rootlets, and there was no problem potting a cutting up into a compost with a pre-prepared hole and filling it just gently with soil. After a few waterings the soil became properly consolidated. Franz |
Rooting in a gel
"Jim W" wrote in message news:1fzp4l3.1epg14x1ugs0ioN%00senetnospamtodayta@ macunlimited.net... Franz Heymann wrote: About a decade and a half ago there was a sudden burst if interest amongst amateur gardeners in the rooting of cuttings in a gel. Then, quite suddenly, it blew over and if you now talk about it in a garden centre, you are confronted with an uncomprehending gaze from the attendant. I experimented with it in a small way and was quite successful, achieving something like 70% success rate in the cuttings I tried. It was a neat way of avoiding having to see to the proper watering of the cuttings, and it made it possible to see the development of the roots without having to upset the cuttings in any way. Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? Rot.. Its just not widely available on the domestic market.. How do you think they flood the market with 'new' cultivars? esp slower growers like roses.. They use micropropagation primarily which is effectily what you're describing though using only a few cells. Then they wean and grow on.. I spent a few days in a microprop lab at UCLANC where they carry out commercial contracts a few years ago.. I still have the roses that I grew from that part of the course module! 'Pink Perpetue' I am fully aware of its use in commercial circles. It was its apparent departure from the amateur field that I was bemoaning. What was the gel which was used? Its ususally an agar gel base which you can buy in any health food store or catering supplier.. Its a suitable vegetarian alternative to gelatine. It comes from an algae/seaweed I believe. I wonder why it has to be something expensive like agar. Why not thick wallpaper paste? I still ahve the notes and the 'Recipes' here.. We used V8 (again, health food store, its basically carrot juice) as the nutrient supply.. I am missing out on something here. I thought that commercial gel propagation was done under as sterile conditions as possible. My problem is now that carrot juice is a complex organic liquid, and its constituents have to be decomposed into simple inorganic substances before the plantlet can make use of it. What does the decomposing in a sterile environment? Though we DID use synthesised plant hormones to encourage root cells. Not all plants have enough from such tiny samples. Of course if you are using normal size cuttings then it won't matter so much. If you look up mocroprop there are plenty of sites with 'heath robinson' type setups.. Orchid growers use it a fair bit I believe. Certainly the supplies I obtainable.. A company called 'Wilder' in the US used to do a full kit. As far as I know, it is literally the only feasible way of propagating Disas. I've seen the ready prepared 'gel pots' for cuttings where you just stick them through a foil lid quite recently! Yes. I mentioned in another post that I have come across a source and have ordered some. Franz |
Rooting in a gel
Franz Heymann wrote:
Yes. I mentioned in another post that I have come across a source and have ordered some. Must've missed that.. Y can still ahve fun making you're own if you wish though.. Try Agar and up to 5% V8 carrot juice.. As long as it starts off sterile (eg clean heat cleaned containers) and is set hot then cooled) there is no reason why it might not work OK.. As I said the tricky bit is weaning as plants grown like this may have less 'normal' bacterial/fungal colonisation already in place compared to conventional cuttings. // Jim |
Rooting in a gel
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message ...
"Jane Ransom" wrote in message ... In article , Franz Heymann notfranz. writes Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? Possibly because people realised that, to root cuttings, you don't need gel or rooting hormones or anything else. All you need to do is do it at the right time in plain ordinary soil - well compost and sand if you want to be really finickity!!!!!! Many years ago I did a trial run, rooting Lithospermum cuttings in a gel, cutting compost, sharp sand and garden soil. The samples were not large enough to make a quantitative comparison, but for what it is worth, the gel came out best and the garden soil was worst. What I found most attractive about the gel was that the cuttings needed no attention at all other than looking to see if they had rooted. Moreover, this inspection could be done without disturbing the cuttings in any way. It occurred to me that one ought to try and replace the commercial gel with a thick wallpaper paste, made up with water plus a few drops of Benlate sterilising agent and a drop or two of liquid rooting hormone. Somehow, there were always something else to do, and this experiment was never done. Perhaps one of our readers is sufficiently experimentally minded to give it a try. I was always put off trying it because I feared the anti-fungal agents in the wallpaper paste might kill or weaken the roots, and because of what Kay mentioned: surely this is just an extension of rooting in water, with the usual attendant difficulties of transfer. You may get some failures with the usual compost-sand mixture, but at least the successful ones are easy to plant on. I certainly wouldn't even consider old-fashioned flour-and-water paste, as that would be covered with moulds in no time. You could make an agar gel out of Irish (Carragheen) moss, but I couldn't be bothered. I can't make up my mind about rooting hormones: there certainly are some cuttings where they are said to do more harm than good, and with others there doesn't seem to be much point. They do lose their effectiveness in storage. The fear (unbacked by any evidence at all) of anti-fungal ingredients is also what put me off using wallpaper paste as an experimental fluid sowing medium. We don't really need these aids anyhow. Mike. |
Rooting in a gel
Franz Heymann wrote in message ... Thanks for the URL. However, in the meantime, I have used Google to discover that there is still a kit available in the UK. It got quite a good write-up in the June issue of the RHS journal. It is called "Gel2root", and is available from Fothergills. The gel contains both a rooting agent and a sterilising agent. I have ordered a trial pack and will report when I have some results. I have some cuttings already in it, found it in my local GC. So far trying Calicarpa, Hybiscus syriacus, potentilla and buddleia globosa. Mike www.british-naturism.org.uk |
Rooting in a gel
Franz Heymann wrote:
Yes. I mentioned in another post that I have come across a source and have ordered some. Must've missed that.. Y can still ahve fun making you're own if you wish though.. Try Agar and up to 5% V8 carrot juice.. As long as it starts off sterile (eg clean heat cleaned containers) and is set hot then cooled) there is no reason why it might not work OK.. As I said the tricky bit is weaning as plants grown like this may have less 'normal' bacterial/fungal colonisation already in place compared to conventional cuttings. // Jim |
Rooting in a gel
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message ...
"Jane Ransom" wrote in message ... In article , Franz Heymann notfranz. writes Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? Possibly because people realised that, to root cuttings, you don't need gel or rooting hormones or anything else. All you need to do is do it at the right time in plain ordinary soil - well compost and sand if you want to be really finickity!!!!!! Many years ago I did a trial run, rooting Lithospermum cuttings in a gel, cutting compost, sharp sand and garden soil. The samples were not large enough to make a quantitative comparison, but for what it is worth, the gel came out best and the garden soil was worst. What I found most attractive about the gel was that the cuttings needed no attention at all other than looking to see if they had rooted. Moreover, this inspection could be done without disturbing the cuttings in any way. It occurred to me that one ought to try and replace the commercial gel with a thick wallpaper paste, made up with water plus a few drops of Benlate sterilising agent and a drop or two of liquid rooting hormone. Somehow, there were always something else to do, and this experiment was never done. Perhaps one of our readers is sufficiently experimentally minded to give it a try. I was always put off trying it because I feared the anti-fungal agents in the wallpaper paste might kill or weaken the roots, and because of what Kay mentioned: surely this is just an extension of rooting in water, with the usual attendant difficulties of transfer. You may get some failures with the usual compost-sand mixture, but at least the successful ones are easy to plant on. I certainly wouldn't even consider old-fashioned flour-and-water paste, as that would be covered with moulds in no time. You could make an agar gel out of Irish (Carragheen) moss, but I couldn't be bothered. I can't make up my mind about rooting hormones: there certainly are some cuttings where they are said to do more harm than good, and with others there doesn't seem to be much point. They do lose their effectiveness in storage. The fear (unbacked by any evidence at all) of anti-fungal ingredients is also what put me off using wallpaper paste as an experimental fluid sowing medium. We don't really need these aids anyhow. Mike. |
Rooting in a gel
Franz Heymann wrote in message ... Thanks for the URL. However, in the meantime, I have used Google to discover that there is still a kit available in the UK. It got quite a good write-up in the June issue of the RHS journal. It is called "Gel2root", and is available from Fothergills. The gel contains both a rooting agent and a sterilising agent. I have ordered a trial pack and will report when I have some results. I have some cuttings already in it, found it in my local GC. So far trying Calicarpa, Hybiscus syriacus, potentilla and buddleia globosa. Mike www.british-naturism.org.uk |
Rooting in a gel
"Michael Berridge" wrote in message ... Franz Heymann wrote in message ... Thanks for the URL. However, in the meantime, I have used Google to discover that there is still a kit available in the UK. It got quite a good write-up in the June issue of the RHS journal. It is called "Gel2root", and is available from Fothergills. The gel contains both a rooting agent and a sterilising agent. I have ordered a trial pack and will report when I have some results. I have some cuttings already in it, found it in my local GC. So far trying Calicarpa, Hybiscus syriacus, potentilla and buddleia globosa. It would be nice if you were to keep us posted. I tried my usual GC. They did not know what I was talking about. Franz |
Rooting in a gel
"Michael Berridge" wrote in message ... Franz Heymann wrote in message ... Thanks for the URL. However, in the meantime, I have used Google to discover that there is still a kit available in the UK. It got quite a good write-up in the June issue of the RHS journal. It is called "Gel2root", and is available from Fothergills. The gel contains both a rooting agent and a sterilising agent. I have ordered a trial pack and will report when I have some results. I have some cuttings already in it, found it in my local GC. So far trying Calicarpa, Hybiscus syriacus, potentilla and buddleia globosa. It would be nice if you were to keep us posted. I tried my usual GC. They did not know what I was talking about. Franz |
Rooting in a gel
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message om... "Franz Heymann" wrote in message ... "Jane Ransom" wrote in message ... In article , Franz Heymann notfranz. writes Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? Possibly because people realised that, to root cuttings, you don't need gel or rooting hormones or anything else. All you need to do is do it at the right time in plain ordinary soil - well compost and sand if you want to be really finickity!!!!!! Many years ago I did a trial run, rooting Lithospermum cuttings in a gel, cutting compost, sharp sand and garden soil. The samples were not large enough to make a quantitative comparison, but for what it is worth, the gel came out best and the garden soil was worst. What I found most attractive about the gel was that the cuttings needed no attention at all other than looking to see if they had rooted. Moreover, this inspection could be done without disturbing the cuttings in any way. It occurred to me that one ought to try and replace the commercial gel with a thick wallpaper paste, made up with water plus a few drops of Benlate sterilising agent and a drop or two of liquid rooting hormone. Somehow, there were always something else to do, and this experiment was never done. Perhaps one of our readers is sufficiently experimentally minded to give it a try. I was always put off trying it because I feared the anti-fungal agents in the wallpaper paste might kill or weaken the roots, and because of what Kay mentioned: surely this is just an extension of rooting in water, with the usual attendant difficulties of transfer. You may get some failures with the usual compost-sand mixture, but at least the successful ones are easy to plant on. I assure you that it is easier to transplant the gel-grown cuttings safely than it is to transplant compost-grown cuttings. I have elaborated on this in another post to this thread. I certainly wouldn't even consider old-fashioned flour-and-water paste, as that would be covered with moulds in no time. You could make an agar gel out of Irish (Carragheen) moss, but I couldn't be bothered. The agar would also be mould ridden if it did not contain a disinfecting (if that is the word I want) agent. The commercial gel and a commercial wallpaper paste like polycel both contain an anti-mould agent I can't make up my mind about rooting hormones: there certainly are some cuttings where they are said to do more harm than good, and with others there doesn't seem to be much point. They do lose their effectiveness in storage. Thanks for that info. I have always wondered if I was squandering my savings by religiously buying a new supply each season. The fear (unbacked by any evidence at all) of anti-fungal ingredients is also what put me off using wallpaper paste as an experimental fluid sowing medium. We don't really need these aids anyhow. I don't agree with that last sentiment. I have not done it yet, but I would be surprised if it did not turn out to be more convenient and safer to prick out seedlings germinated in a gel than all that rough handling involved in the use of a seed compost.. Franz |
Rooting in a gel
"Jim W" wrote in message news:1fzpaq4.3fotk71tjjc6pN%00senetnospamtodayta@m acunlimited.net... Franz Heymann wrote: Yes. I mentioned in another post that I have come across a source and have ordered some. Must've missed that.. Y can still ahve fun making you're own if you wish though.. Try Agar and up to 5% V8 carrot juice.. As long as it starts off sterile (eg clean heat cleaned containers) and is set hot then cooled) there is no reason why it might not work OK.. Where does one buy Agar? What does it cost? What is wrong with simply making up a weak jelly with ordinary "food" jelly? As I said the tricky bit is weaning as plants grown like this may have less 'normal' bacterial/fungal colonisation already in place compared to conventional cuttings. Franz |
Rooting in a gel
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message om... "Franz Heymann" wrote in message ... "Jane Ransom" wrote in message ... In article , Franz Heymann notfranz. writes Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? Possibly because people realised that, to root cuttings, you don't need gel or rooting hormones or anything else. All you need to do is do it at the right time in plain ordinary soil - well compost and sand if you want to be really finickity!!!!!! Many years ago I did a trial run, rooting Lithospermum cuttings in a gel, cutting compost, sharp sand and garden soil. The samples were not large enough to make a quantitative comparison, but for what it is worth, the gel came out best and the garden soil was worst. What I found most attractive about the gel was that the cuttings needed no attention at all other than looking to see if they had rooted. Moreover, this inspection could be done without disturbing the cuttings in any way. It occurred to me that one ought to try and replace the commercial gel with a thick wallpaper paste, made up with water plus a few drops of Benlate sterilising agent and a drop or two of liquid rooting hormone. Somehow, there were always something else to do, and this experiment was never done. Perhaps one of our readers is sufficiently experimentally minded to give it a try. I was always put off trying it because I feared the anti-fungal agents in the wallpaper paste might kill or weaken the roots, and because of what Kay mentioned: surely this is just an extension of rooting in water, with the usual attendant difficulties of transfer. You may get some failures with the usual compost-sand mixture, but at least the successful ones are easy to plant on. I assure you that it is easier to transplant the gel-grown cuttings safely than it is to transplant compost-grown cuttings. I have elaborated on this in another post to this thread. I certainly wouldn't even consider old-fashioned flour-and-water paste, as that would be covered with moulds in no time. You could make an agar gel out of Irish (Carragheen) moss, but I couldn't be bothered. The agar would also be mould ridden if it did not contain a disinfecting (if that is the word I want) agent. The commercial gel and a commercial wallpaper paste like polycel both contain an anti-mould agent I can't make up my mind about rooting hormones: there certainly are some cuttings where they are said to do more harm than good, and with others there doesn't seem to be much point. They do lose their effectiveness in storage. Thanks for that info. I have always wondered if I was squandering my savings by religiously buying a new supply each season. The fear (unbacked by any evidence at all) of anti-fungal ingredients is also what put me off using wallpaper paste as an experimental fluid sowing medium. We don't really need these aids anyhow. I don't agree with that last sentiment. I have not done it yet, but I would be surprised if it did not turn out to be more convenient and safer to prick out seedlings germinated in a gel than all that rough handling involved in the use of a seed compost.. Franz |
Rooting in a gel
"Jim W" wrote in message news:1fzpaq4.3fotk71tjjc6pN%00senetnospamtodayta@m acunlimited.net... Franz Heymann wrote: Yes. I mentioned in another post that I have come across a source and have ordered some. Must've missed that.. Y can still ahve fun making you're own if you wish though.. Try Agar and up to 5% V8 carrot juice.. As long as it starts off sterile (eg clean heat cleaned containers) and is set hot then cooled) there is no reason why it might not work OK.. Where does one buy Agar? What does it cost? What is wrong with simply making up a weak jelly with ordinary "food" jelly? As I said the tricky bit is weaning as plants grown like this may have less 'normal' bacterial/fungal colonisation already in place compared to conventional cuttings. Franz |
Rooting in a gel
Franz Heymann wrote:
Where does one buy Agar? What does it cost? See previous post for the answer to both the above. What is wrong with simply making up a weak jelly with ordinary "food" jelly? Try it.. you asked what was used, not what you could try to use;-) I suspect you may get other contaminations though. We were told to avoid anything that grew a pink slime.. NOT in humour I think it was sign of a culture of a human contaminant.. Its all to easy to breathe on gels whilst preparing (esp in a domestic setting) and grow something you don't want to ! // Jim |
Rooting in a gel
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message ...
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message [...] You may get some failures with the usual compost-sand mixture, but at least the successful ones are easy to plant on. I assure you that it is easier to transplant the gel-grown cuttings safely than it is to transplant compost-grown cuttings. I have elaborated on this in another post to this thread. I haven't seen the other post; I'll read it now. I certainly wouldn't even consider old-fashioned flour-and-water paste, as that would be covered with moulds in no time. You could make an agar gel out of Irish (Carragheen) moss, but I couldn't be bothered. The agar would also be mould ridden if it did not contain a disinfecting (if that is the word I want) agent. You make it up by boiling the seaweed, so it would be sterile at least to start with. Though the boiling would drive out dissolved oxygen, which must be a bad thing. The commercial gel and a commercial wallpaper paste like polycel both contain an anti-mould agent But we'd need to be sure the wallpaper paste one was as harmless as the one intended specifically for plants, and that's what worried me. I can't make up my mind about rooting hormones: there certainly are some cuttings where they are said to do more harm than good, and with others there doesn't seem to be much point. They do lose their effectiveness in storage. Thanks for that info. I have always wondered if I was squandering my savings by religiously buying a new supply each season. No, you've been doing the right thing. The fear (unbacked by any evidence at all) of anti-fungal ingredients is also what put me off using wallpaper paste as an experimental fluid sowing medium. We don't really need these aids anyhow. I don't agree with that last sentiment. I have not done it yet, but I would be surprised if it did not turn out to be more convenient and safer to prick out seedlings germinated in a gel than all that rough handling involved in the use of a seed compost.. I certainly do damage a fair few seedings when pricking out, sometimes by clumsiness, sometimes by having left them a bit too late (my personal record is probably some cotoneasters which I somehow left in the seed tray for five years!). I suspect the gel technique would be to sow seeds individually as one would in something like a peat block, rather than broadcast in a tray. I can see its potential value for very scarce or expensive seeds; but I imagine one would need to learn some new techniques. It must also have enormous commercial value, as combined with fluid sowing technique it would sharply reduce labour inputs. Mike. |
Rooting in a gel
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message ...
"Jim W" wrote in message news:1fzpaq4.3fotk71tjjc6pN%00senetnospamtodayta@m acunlimited.net... Franz Heymann wrote: Yes. I mentioned in another post that I have come across a source and have ordered some. Must've missed that.. Y can still ahve fun making you're own if you wish though.. Try Agar and up to 5% V8 carrot juice.. As long as it starts off sterile (eg clean heat cleaned containers) and is set hot then cooled) there is no reason why it might not work OK.. Where does one buy Agar? What does it cost? What is wrong with simply making up a weak jelly with ordinary "food" jelly? [...] Wholefood shops sell Carragheen or Irish moss: I don't imagine it costs much. I've always meant to try making the pudding, but have never got round to it. I have no idea if you can use gelatin for propagation; but I think the reason it isn't used in labs is that it has a lower melting-point than agar. There may also be an issue in terms of reactivity to acids, perhaps? Mike. |
Rooting in a gel
Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? What was the gel which was used? [Franz Heymann] The product in the UK was Fisons Clearcut. The company spent a small fortune on advertising the product in various media including TV, and it sold like hot cakes - but as soon as they stopped advertising, it stopped selling... It just wasn't profitable, and ISTR it had a restricted shelf-life, which meant that Garden Centres and wholesalers didn't want to stock it if it didn't turn over fast enough to avoid wastage. -- AndyB |
Rooting in a gel
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message om... "Franz Heymann" wrote in message ... "Jim W" wrote in message news:1fzpaq4.3fotk71tjjc6pN%00senetnospamtodayta@m acunlimited.net... Franz Heymann wrote: Yes. I mentioned in another post that I have come across a source and have ordered some. Must've missed that.. Y can still ahve fun making you're own if you wish though.. Try Agar and up to 5% V8 carrot juice.. As long as it starts off sterile (eg clean heat cleaned containers) and is set hot then cooled) there is no reason why it might not work OK.. Where does one buy Agar? What does it cost? What is wrong with simply making up a weak jelly with ordinary "food" jelly? [...] Wholefood shops sell Carragheen or Irish moss: I don't imagine it costs much. I've always meant to try making the pudding, but have never got round to it. I have no idea if you can use gelatin for propagation; but I think the reason it isn't used in labs is that it has a lower melting-point than agar. I have my doubts if this is important. After all, I propose to root the cuttings at a temperature at which the jelly will be stiff. There may also be an issue in terms of reactivity to acids, perhaps? You may have something here. I will have a shot at using jelly, but not until after I have played with the commercial gel Franz Mike. |
Rooting in a gel
"Andrew Barnett" wrote in message ... Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? What was the gel which was used? [Franz Heymann] The product in the UK was Fisons Clearcut. You've rung a bell. That was it. The company spent a small fortune on advertising the product in various media including TV, and it sold like hot cakes - but as soon as they stopped advertising, it stopped selling... It just wasn't profitable, and ISTR it had a restricted shelf-life, which meant that Garden Centres and wholesalers didn't want to stock it if it didn't turn over fast enough to avoid wastage. That might explain its demise. I wonder if "gel2root" will have a similar fate. I suspect that Fothergill's ought to try harder. I have now failed to find it in 3 large garden centres. Franz |
Rooting in a gel
Franz Heymann wrote:
That might explain its demise. I wonder if "gel2root" will have a similar fate. I suspect that Fothergill's ought to try harder. I have now failed to find it in 3 large garden centres. Franz I am pretty sure Chempak still do the preprepared 'domestic pots'.. But if you do a search for 'Micropropagation supplies' You can get ready prepared pots by post IIRC.. There was a Carnivourous plants stie (UK based) that did a load of stuff. // Jim |
Rooting in a gel
"Jim W" wrote in message news:1fzs25l.ukf2qj27dcquN%00senetnospamtodayta@ma cunlimited.net... Franz Heymann wrote: That might explain its demise. I wonder if "gel2root" will have a similar fate. I suspect that Fothergill's ought to try harder. I have now failed to find it in 3 large garden centres. Franz I am pretty sure Chempak still do the preprepared 'domestic pots'.. But if you do a search for 'Micropropagation supplies' You can get ready prepared pots by post IIRC.. There was a Carnivourous plants stie (UK based) that did a load of stuff. Thanks, Jim. You can (I have) ordered the stuff direct from Fothergills. Franz |
Rooting in a gel
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 13:00:21 +0100, Andrew Barnett
wrote: ~ ~Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? ~ ~What was the gel which was used? ~ ~[Franz Heymann] ~ ~ ~The product in the UK was Fisons Clearcut. Ah - thankyou for the reminder. I used to buy loads of this stuff to propagate my African Violets back in the late 80s, though as an impecunious student I tended to reuse them by topping them up with water once they looked like they were drying out! Then one day I couldn't find them any more... ~The company spent a small fortune on advertising the product in various ~media including TV, and it sold like hot cakes - but as soon as they ~stopped advertising, it stopped selling... Well it was a very good product. Worked wonders with pelargoniums too. And I loved watching the roots form - perhaps I ought to get some for my godchildren (aged 5). ~It just wasn't profitable, and ISTR it had a restricted shelf-life, ~which meant that Garden Centres and wholesalers didn't want to stock it ~if it didn't turn over fast enough to avoid wastage. I am intending to buy some of the new stuff as I could do with a new generation of violets... current trayful are getting a bit old! thanks for the name reminder. -- jane Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you may still exist but you have ceased to live. Mark Twain Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks! |
Rooting in a gel
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 13:00:21 +0100, Andrew Barnett
wrote: ~ ~Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? ~ ~What was the gel which was used? ~ ~[Franz Heymann] ~ ~ ~The product in the UK was Fisons Clearcut. Ah - thankyou for the reminder. I used to buy loads of this stuff to propagate my African Violets back in the late 80s, though as an impecunious student I tended to reuse them by topping them up with water once they looked like they were drying out! Then one day I couldn't find them any more... ~The company spent a small fortune on advertising the product in various ~media including TV, and it sold like hot cakes - but as soon as they ~stopped advertising, it stopped selling... Well it was a very good product. Worked wonders with pelargoniums too. And I loved watching the roots form - perhaps I ought to get some for my godchildren (aged 5). ~It just wasn't profitable, and ISTR it had a restricted shelf-life, ~which meant that Garden Centres and wholesalers didn't want to stock it ~if it didn't turn over fast enough to avoid wastage. I am intending to buy some of the new stuff as I could do with a new generation of violets... current trayful are getting a bit old! thanks for the name reminder. -- jane Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you may still exist but you have ceased to live. Mark Twain Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks! |
Rooting in a gel
On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 13:00:21 +0100, Andrew Barnett
wrote: ~ ~Why has the concept disappeared from the scene? ~ ~What was the gel which was used? ~ ~[Franz Heymann] ~ ~ ~The product in the UK was Fisons Clearcut. Ah - thankyou for the reminder. I used to buy loads of this stuff to propagate my African Violets back in the late 80s, though as an impecunious student I tended to reuse them by topping them up with water once they looked like they were drying out! Then one day I couldn't find them any more... ~The company spent a small fortune on advertising the product in various ~media including TV, and it sold like hot cakes - but as soon as they ~stopped advertising, it stopped selling... Well it was a very good product. Worked wonders with pelargoniums too. And I loved watching the roots form - perhaps I ought to get some for my godchildren (aged 5). ~It just wasn't profitable, and ISTR it had a restricted shelf-life, ~which meant that Garden Centres and wholesalers didn't want to stock it ~if it didn't turn over fast enough to avoid wastage. I am intending to buy some of the new stuff as I could do with a new generation of violets... current trayful are getting a bit old! thanks for the name reminder. -- jane Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you may still exist but you have ceased to live. Mark Twain Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks! |
Rooting in a gel
Apologies for coming in late to this thread, but has anyone tried
using those water-retaining gel granules as a rooting medium (after they've been well soaked, of course)? I would think they might be ideal, holding lots of water but allowing air to circulate in the spaces between. -- Chris E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net |
Rooting in a gel
Chris Hogg wrote in message ... Apologies for coming in late to this thread, but has anyone tried using those water-retaining gel granules as a rooting medium (after they've been well soaked, of course)? I would think they might be ideal, holding lots of water but allowing air to circulate in the spaces between. You would not want air to circulate round the developing roots. they need to be in contact with moisture all the time. Mike www.british-naturism.org.uk |
Rooting in a gel
In article , Michael
Berridge writes Chris Hogg wrote in message ... Apologies for coming in late to this thread, but has anyone tried using those water-retaining gel granules as a rooting medium (after they've been well soaked, of course)? I would think they might be ideal, holding lots of water but allowing air to circulate in the spaces between. You would not want air to circulate round the developing roots. they need to be in contact with moisture all the time. Do they, though? I was reading an article recently which said that, contrary to previous belief, seeds and seedlings took in more water from the air spaces between the soil than from the soil itself. So might not the same hold true for cuttings? And don't most people add sand to the rooting compost - not to hold water, but to give air spaces? I dunno - I don't go in for cuttings. -- Kay Easton Edward's earthworm page: http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm |
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