Getting rid of ground elder
 

In article , Jane Ransom
writes
In article , Nick Wagg
writes

Eh???????
It's one of these super weeds like JKN and is notifiable!!!


That's what I thought, but whom should we notify, please?

Department of the Environment - or whatever official title it lives
under these days!!

DEFRA - No - they don't want to be notified if you have it.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Getting rid of ground elder
 

In article , martin
writes
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:01:15 +0100, Kay Easton
wrote:

In article , martin
writes
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:22:24 +0100, Nick Wagg
wrote:

Jane Ransom wrote:
Eh???????
It's one of these super weeds like JKN and is notifiable!!!


That's what I thought, but whom should we notify, please?

The HS&E.

Where did you get that bit of information from, please?

Google I didn't save the URL and I can't find it again.



Last time it was discussed in
http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/showth...?threadid=8917
the local council appeared to be the place.

Thanks for the urls you posted - quite a helpful set.

But they merely put it on the same level as, eg, grey squirrel, and I
can just imagine the reaction of the local council if you phoned to
notify them you had grey squirrels in the garden ;-)

I know it's covered by the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, but that
just makes it illegal to release it into the wild. It doesn't make it
illegal to grow it - though if you were to grow it and allow it to set
seed, that would both be irresponsible and make it very likely you would
break the law.

But I can't find any suggestion anywhere that is notifiable - like
Colorado beetle used to be when I was young.


Mr. Sainsbury [holding answer 22 October 1990] : No. There are
currently no plans to ban the import or sale of seeds of Heracleum
Mantegazzianum.

And if it were notifiable they'd hardly allow the sale of seeds.


it could be quite expensive having a garden or field full of giant
hogweed

No. Not having a garden full - that is allowed. But if you let it spread
outside the garden it could indeed be expensive.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Getting rid of ground elder
 

In article , martin
writes
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:01:15 +0100, Kay Easton
wrote:

In article , martin
writes
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:22:24 +0100, Nick Wagg
wrote:

Jane Ransom wrote:

In article , Kay Easton
writes

Have you *really* got giant hogweed? The ordinary one grows 5-6 ft. But
if giant, lucky you! -

Eh???????
It's one of these super weeds like JKN and is notifiable!!!


That's what I thought, but whom should we notify, please?

The HS&E.

Where did you get that bit of information from, please?

The scope of the ban is in
http://www.parliament.the-stationery...990/cmhansrd/1
990-10-25/Writtens-1.html
"Giant Hogweed
Mrs. Margaret Ewing : To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and
Industry whether he will take steps to ban the import and sale of
seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum.

Mr. Sainsbury [holding answer 22 October 1990] : No. There are
currently no plans to ban the import or sale of seeds of Heracleum
Mantegazzianum.

However, under section 14(2) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981,
it is an offence for any person to plant or to otherwise cause to grow
in the wild any plant which is included in part 2 of schedule 9 to the
Act. Giant hogweed (Heracleum Mantegazzianum) is listed in the
schedule."

Note the words "in the wild". Private gardens are not classed as "in
the wild".

Details of section 14(2) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 at
http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publications/law/5_1_7.htm

and for list of banned flora and fauna
http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publicat...w/appenda9.htm

it could be quite expensive having a garden or field full of giant
hogweed

A field perhaps, but not a private garden.

--
Malcolm Ogilvie

Getting rid of ground elder
 

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:28:14 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie
wrote:


The scope of the ban is in
http://www.parliament.the-stationery...990/cmhansrd/1
990-10-25/Writtens-1.html
"Giant Hogweed
Mrs. Margaret Ewing : To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and
Industry whether he will take steps to ban the import and sale of
seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum.

Mr. Sainsbury [holding answer 22 October 1990] : No. There are
currently no plans to ban the import or sale of seeds of Heracleum
Mantegazzianum.

However, under section 14(2) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981,
it is an offence for any person to plant or to otherwise cause to grow
in the wild any plant which is included in part 2 of schedule 9 to the
Act. Giant hogweed (Heracleum Mantegazzianum) is listed in the
schedule."

Note the words "in the wild". Private gardens are not classed as "in
the wild".

Odd because it says quite clearly "garden" in
http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publications/law/5_1_7.htm

"NOTE: This offence is similar to the one relating to animals (section
14(1) though it only applies to plants on the list and not the
non-native plants generally. The latter would be impossible as
virtually every garden in the country is stocked with mainly
non-native plants"


Details of section 14(2) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 at
http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publications/law/5_1_7.htm

and for list of banned flora and fauna
http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publicat...w/appenda9.htm

it could be quite expensive having a garden or field full of giant
hogweed

A field perhaps, but not a private garden.

--
Martin

Getting rid of ground elder
 

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:29:52 +0100, Kay Easton
wrote:


or have it growing on your land!

Where does it say that?

sse the link to the act.
--
Martin

Getting rid of ground elder
 

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:30:03 +0100, Kay Easton
wrote:

In article , martin
writes
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:01:15 +0100, Kay Easton
wrote:

In article , martin
writes
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:22:24 +0100, Nick Wagg
wrote:

Jane Ransom wrote:
Eh???????
It's one of these super weeds like JKN and is notifiable!!!


That's what I thought, but whom should we notify, please?

The HS&E.

Where did you get that bit of information from, please?

Google I didn't save the URL and I can't find it again.



Last time it was discussed in
http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/showth...?threadid=8917
the local council appeared to be the place.

Thanks for the urls you posted - quite a helpful set.

But they merely put it on the same level as, eg, grey squirrel, and I
can just imagine the reaction of the local council if you phoned to
notify them you had grey squirrels in the garden ;-)

:-)


--
Martin

Getting rid of ground elder
 

In article , martin
writes
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:28:14 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie
wrote:


The scope of the ban is in
http://www.parliament.the-stationery...990/cmhansrd/1
990-10-25/Writtens-1.html
"Giant Hogweed
Mrs. Margaret Ewing : To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and
Industry whether he will take steps to ban the import and sale of
seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum.

Mr. Sainsbury [holding answer 22 October 1990] : No. There are
currently no plans to ban the import or sale of seeds of Heracleum
Mantegazzianum.

However, under section 14(2) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981,
it is an offence for any person to plant or to otherwise cause to grow
in the wild any plant which is included in part 2 of schedule 9 to the
Act. Giant hogweed (Heracleum Mantegazzianum) is listed in the
schedule."

Note the words "in the wild". Private gardens are not classed as "in
the wild".

Odd because it says quite clearly "garden" in
http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publications/law/5_1_7.htm

"NOTE: This offence is similar to the one relating to animals (section
14(1) though it only applies to plants on the list and not the
non-native plants generally. The latter would be impossible as
virtually every garden in the country is stocked with mainly
non-native plants"

And exactly where in that does it say that you cannot grow giant hogweed
in a private garden?

Or that a garden is part of 'the wild'?

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Getting rid of ground elder
 

In article , martin
writes
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:29:52 +0100, Kay Easton
wrote:


or have it growing on your land!

Where does it say that?

sse the link to the act.

I have seen the link to the Act. I have crawled through both the
Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, and the Weeds Act 1959, and in
neither of them can I find anything which makes it an offence to grow
giant hogweed on your own land (as opposed to releasing it or allowing
it to be released into the wild)

That is why I am asking you where you have obtained your information,
because it is not in the links you have posted, nor in anything I can
find on the DEFRA site.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Getting rid of ground elder
 

The message
from Janet Tweedy contains these words:

What about covering the ground with black Thingy and putting half grown
bulbs through the plastic later on Janet? If you mulched the ground
thickly as well you might get away with stopping the ground elder coming
through if a lot has been taken away.
I did try it on one bed of my vegetable area but sad to say the mulch is
now four foot tall and contains two carpet layers, two layers of very
thick newspaper and lots of grass clipping etc and STILL the ground
elder comes through.................
Sigh ..............

Covering ground with black plastic, or carpet, to clean ground of
serious perennial weeds like GE, requires that all light is excluded.
Holes in the plastic let light in, shoots will emerge through them and
photosynthesise to feed and multiply the roots below. I see no point
mulching on top of a non-degradable or incredibly slow degrading
soil-barrier such as plastic or carpet.

Janet.

Getting rid of ground elder
 

In article , martin
writes
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:28:14 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie
wrote:


The scope of the ban is in
http://www.parliament.the-stationery...990/cmhansrd/1
990-10-25/Writtens-1.html
"Giant Hogweed
Mrs. Margaret Ewing : To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and
Industry whether he will take steps to ban the import and sale of
seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum.

Mr. Sainsbury [holding answer 22 October 1990] : No. There are
currently no plans to ban the import or sale of seeds of Heracleum
Mantegazzianum.

However, under section 14(2) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981,
it is an offence for any person to plant or to otherwise cause to grow
in the wild any plant which is included in part 2 of schedule 9 to the
Act. Giant hogweed (Heracleum Mantegazzianum) is listed in the
schedule."

Note the words "in the wild". Private gardens are not classed as "in
the wild".

Odd because it says quite clearly "garden" in
http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publications/law/5_1_7.htm

"NOTE: This offence is similar to the one relating to animals (section
14(1) though it only applies to plants on the list and not the
non-native plants generally. The latter would be impossible as
virtually every garden in the country is stocked with mainly
non-native plants"

So it does, but where does it say that a private garden is "in the wild"
or that growing giant hogweed in a garden is against the law, which is
what you appear to be claiming!

Note, too, the Defence for this clause: "It is a defence to a charge of
committing offences under section 14 for a person to prove that he took
all reasonable steps and exercised all due diligence to avoid committing
the offence."

--
Malcolm Ogilvie

Getting rid of ground elder
 

In article , martin
writes

Yes, I wouldn't advocate geting it out anywhere near one....

I still remember a close encounter with an electric fence in the dark
...

Oh ouch.......... what did they 'charge' you with then?

Ho ho
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

Getting rid of ground elder
 

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:01:00 +0100, Kay Easton
wrote:

In article , martin
writes
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:28:14 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie
wrote:


The scope of the ban is in
http://www.parliament.the-stationery...990/cmhansrd/1
990-10-25/Writtens-1.html
"Giant Hogweed
Mrs. Margaret Ewing : To ask the Secretary of State for Trade and
Industry whether he will take steps to ban the import and sale of
seeds of Heracleum Mantegazzianum.

Mr. Sainsbury [holding answer 22 October 1990] : No. There are
currently no plans to ban the import or sale of seeds of Heracleum
Mantegazzianum.

However, under section 14(2) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981,
it is an offence for any person to plant or to otherwise cause to grow
in the wild any plant which is included in part 2 of schedule 9 to the
Act. Giant hogweed (Heracleum Mantegazzianum) is listed in the
schedule."

Note the words "in the wild". Private gardens are not classed as "in
the wild".

Odd because it says quite clearly "garden" in
http://www.defra.gov.uk/paw/publications/law/5_1_7.htm

"NOTE: This offence is similar to the one relating to animals (section
14(1) though it only applies to plants on the list and not the
non-native plants generally. The latter would be impossible as
virtually every garden in the country is stocked with mainly
non-native plants"

And exactly where in that does it say that you cannot grow giant hogweed
in a private garden?

You are not allowed to grow giant hog weeds anywhere. That's the whole
point of the act.


Or that a garden is part of 'the wild'?

Would they use "garden" in the example if it didn't apply to gardens?
--
Martin

Getting rid of ground elder
 

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:47:24 +0100, Janet Tweedy
wrote:

In article , martin
writes

Yes, I wouldn't advocate geting it out anywhere near one....

I still remember a close encounter with an electric fence in the dark
...

Oh ouch.......... what did they 'charge' you with then?

Ho ho

It wasn't me, that had the close encounter.
--
Martin

Getting rid of ground elder
 

The message
from martin contains these words:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:16:53 +0100, Jaques d'Altrades
wrote:
The message
from Sacha contains these words:

Few people can get near it without skin problems. A friend of ours
became
very ill after trying to get his out and suffered for quite some
time. Be,
very, very careful.

Yes, I wouldn't advocate geting it out anywhere near one....

I still remember a close encounter with an electric fence in the dark

Hmmm. Last year a ten-year-old boy unmolished himself by ipssnig off a
railway bridge onto overhead electric power lines.

--
Rusty Hinge
horrid·squeak&zetnet·co·uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

Getting rid of ground elder
 

The message
from Janet Baraclough contains these words:

Covering ground with black plastic, or carpet, to clean ground of
serious perennial weeds like GE, requires that all light is excluded.
Holes in the plastic let light in, shoots will emerge through them and
photosynthesise to feed and multiply the roots below. I see no point
mulching on top of a non-degradable or incredibly slow degrading
soil-barrier such as plastic or carpet.

Oh, I can. One of my friends had a plot of almost virgin clay, covered
in rank and weedy weeds. He covered it with throwouts from the
greengrocer for months, then capped it with bales of straw and old
carpet on top of that, all soaked during the construction with the
contents of his netty.

Then he covered the lot with thick plack polythene and left it for two
years. The ground is free of weeds, even the seeds having been cooked in
the initial composting, and the worms turned it all into good deep
friable loam.

So, even a little (compostable) mulch will be beneficial.

I'm doing a simiar trick with my garden, a bit at a time.

--
Rusty Hinge
horrid·squeak&zetnet·co·uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm