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Got me seeds today
Hi there winter gardeners!
I got my seeds from The Organic Gardening Catalogue today. I have: Purple Hot Pepper Jumbo Sweet Pepper Habanero Ring o Fire Cayenne Pepper Tomato - Gardeners Delight Tomato - Golden Sunrise Tomato - San Marzano (Plum) Tomato - Burpees Delicious Aubergine - Black Beauty Herbs - basil, marjoram and some other stuff. Seed potatoes My question is, on the packets of most of these seeds, it says sow December - March. I have a 12x8 greenhouse, but it's unheated. I do have a small electric propagator - should I sow them in there (if they'll fit). Not sure what to do. I could sow them on the window sill but I don't want them to get too leggy. Ideas? I fancy sowing them this week. -- Mark Allison SQL Server MVP http://www.allisonmitchell.com |
Got me seeds today
In article , "Mark Allison" nomail@please writes: | | My question is, on the packets of most of these seeds, it says sow | December - March. I have a 12x8 greenhouse, but it's unheated. I do have a | small electric propagator - should I sow them in there (if they'll fit). Not | sure what to do. I could sow them on the window sill but I don't want them | to get too leggy. | | Ideas? I fancy sowing them this week. Far too early. Don't even think of sowing seeds for a month yet, and possibly even longer for warm-climate plants. The problem isn't the temperature - it is the light, almost total lack of. Subtropicals etc. are adapted to growing fast once they start, and will not do well if kept warm and half-dark. You can get away with the hardiest of plants because they are adapted to growing slowly - so you plant them outside and they will do that. But it won't work for warm-climate plants. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Got me seeds today
In article , "Mark Allison" nomail@please writes: | | My question is, on the packets of most of these seeds, it says sow | December - March. I have a 12x8 greenhouse, but it's unheated. I do have a | small electric propagator - should I sow them in there (if they'll fit). Not | sure what to do. I could sow them on the window sill but I don't want them | to get too leggy. | | Ideas? I fancy sowing them this week. Far too early. Don't even think of sowing seeds for a month yet, and possibly even longer for warm-climate plants. The problem isn't the temperature - it is the light, almost total lack of. Subtropicals etc. are adapted to growing fast once they start, and will not do well if kept warm and half-dark. You can get away with the hardiest of plants because they are adapted to growing slowly - so you plant them outside and they will do that. But it won't work for warm-climate plants. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Got me seeds today
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Got me seeds today
Nick Maclaren6/1/04 11:44
In article , "Mark Allison" nomail@please writes: | | My question is, on the packets of most of these seeds, it says sow | December - March. I have a 12x8 greenhouse, but it's unheated. I do have a | small electric propagator - should I sow them in there (if they'll fit). Not | sure what to do. I could sow them on the window sill but I don't want them | to get too leggy. | | Ideas? I fancy sowing them this week. Far too early. Don't even think of sowing seeds for a month yet, and possibly even longer for warm-climate plants. The problem isn't the temperature - it is the light, almost total lack of. Subtropicals etc. are adapted to growing fast once they start, and will not do well if kept warm and half-dark. You can get away with the hardiest of plants because they are adapted to growing slowly - so you plant them outside and they will do that. But it won't work for warm-climate plants. Re the tomatoes: Admittedly, ours are grown in a professional prop house on heated benches but our tomato seeds are in now. Ray tells me that when his family grew them commercially, they sowed them on 26th November! -- Sacha (remove the 'x' to email me) |
Got me seeds today
In article , Sacha writes: | | Re the tomatoes: Admittedly, ours are grown in a professional prop house on | heated benches but our tomato seeds are in now. Ray tells me that when his | family grew them commercially, they sowed them on 26th November! With horticultural lighting, I assume? You can certainly plant out much earlier than I can, but I have trouble with weediness sowing even in late February. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Got me seeds today
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Got me seeds today
Nick Maclaren wrote:
...but I have trouble with weediness... Do you mean that the plants were small in size, or that you were plagued by unwelcome "plants in the wrong place". -- Nick Wagg |
Got me seeds today
In article , Nick Wagg writes: | Nick Maclaren wrote: | | ...but I have trouble with weediness... | | Do you mean that the plants were small in size, | or that you were plagued by unwelcome "plants in the wrong place". The former :-) Tall, spindly, and unhealthy. In some cases, I scrapped them and sowed new ones. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Got me seeds today
In article , Frogleg writes: | | And I thought *I* was the Light Nazi! :-) A look at wunderground.com | reveals the following sunrise/sunset numbers for today: | | Cambridge, UK: 8:07 AM GMT 4:02 PM GMT | | Hampton, VA, USA: 7:19 AM EST 5:03 PM EST | | Close to 2 hrs difference in sunlight, 'though of course this changes | as the seasons progress. It's worse than that. Because the sun is lower in the north, the light levels are closer to the square of the day length, so Hampton is getting 45% more light. And that doesn't account for the absorption effects (cloud and otherwise), which could easily make that 45% into 90%. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Got me seeds today
It's worse than that. Because the sun is lower in the north, the light levels are closer to the square of the day length, so Hampton is getting 45% more light. And that doesn't account for the absorption effects (cloud and otherwise), which could easily make that 45% into 90%. Regards, Nick Maclaren. Thanks. I live in Bedfordshire, so my predicament is not as bad as living as far north as Inverness. So, you reckon around March time for all my seeds? Thanks everyone. |
Got me seeds today
Nick Maclaren6/1/04 2:52
In article , Sacha writes: | | Re the tomatoes: Admittedly, ours are grown in a professional prop house on | heated benches but our tomato seeds are in now. Ray tells me that when his | family grew them commercially, they sowed them on 26th November! With horticultural lighting, I assume? You can certainly plant out much earlier than I can, but I have trouble with weediness sowing even in late February. I don't know if Ray used such lighting in Upshire but will check later. But we don't use any here. I am only talking about tomato seeds, though and not the other, more exotic, things mentioned by the OP. Once the seedlings are ready for potting on, they go into 'long toms' for the few that we sell and our own go into bags of compost and are kept in the biggest glasshouse. And as an aside, so many people commented favourably on my personal hanging basket of 'Tumbler' tomatoes that we're going to plant some up for sale this year, along with the more usual flowery ones. -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon (remove the 'x' to email me) |
Got me seeds today
Nick Maclaren6/1/04 2:52
In article , Sacha writes: | | Re the tomatoes: Admittedly, ours are grown in a professional prop house on | heated benches but our tomato seeds are in now. Ray tells me that when his | family grew them commercially, they sowed them on 26th November! With horticultural lighting, I assume? You can certainly plant out much earlier than I can, but I have trouble with weediness sowing even in late February. I don't know if Ray used such lighting in Upshire but will check later. But we don't use any here. I am only talking about tomato seeds, though and not the other, more exotic, things mentioned by the OP. Once the seedlings are ready for potting on, they go into 'long toms' for the few that we sell and our own go into bags of compost and are kept in the biggest glasshouse. And as an aside, so many people commented favourably on my personal hanging basket of 'Tumbler' tomatoes that we're going to plant some up for sale this year, along with the more usual flowery ones. -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon (remove the 'x' to email me) |
Got me seeds today
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Got me seeds today
Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:182398
Sacha6/1/04 4:16 snip I don't know if Ray used such lighting in Upshire but will check later. snip Here's what Ray is dictating to me about tomato growing: "I give the methods during the 50s and 60s because these most closely replicate what amateur growers can use now. In the 50s and 60s, the method of growing tomatoes commercially in the Lea Valley (the largest area of tomato growers in the country then) was to sow the seed around 15 November, 200 seeds to the seed tray in John Innes No 3 (IIRC). The seeds were forced to germinate quickly by using bottom heat - NO supplementary lighting back then. These were then pricked out at the seedling stage into a 3" clay pot and this would be accomplished before the Christmas break. Once fully growing, tomatoes would be given a regular high potash feed and stood out in the green house in their final places in the last few days in January. They would stand in their pots in dibbed holes and not planted until at least one third of the first truss flowers were showing colour. They would still be given a regular high potash feed but I must emphasise that they are NOT planted out until at least a third of the first truss is showing colour. The reason for taking them out of the prop house and standing them in their pots in dibbed holes was to give them space and *stop* them fighting for light. We would try to maintain a 60F temp. regime though it probably went to 55F at night until much more modern heating was introduced. On some nurseries, they would expect to see the first red tomatoes by the end of March. The varieties we grew were Potentate or Baby Lea and then in the 60s F1 hybrids, Euro Cross and Shirley. If you're lucky enough to have supplementary lighting, the recommended one is mercury vapour but I must state that the tomatoes do need at least 8 hours darkness. There are 2 ways of using supplementary lighting; that is to use it on dull days or to increase the day length at the beginning and end of the day by an hour or two. Now, we don't use supplementary lighting for the few plants we grow here, we don't plant until January and we keep them at a lower temperature than when I was growing commercially, especially in dull weather. I should think the dull weather temp. is around 50F. If you're going to use e.g. Levington's compost with a high nitrogen content, the plants will be less controllable in terms of growth than they would be in a John Innes compost. Once you water Levingtons, it's wet and stays wet for some time so the plants grow fast. If you're growing in the present amateur way, which is similar to the old fashioned commercial way, you're probably better off using John Innes." -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon (remove the 'x' to email me) |
Got me seeds today
The message
from Anne Jackson contains these words: I have a redundant sunbed in the attic. Could the light problem be overcome, if I was to rig that up and bypass the automatic time control? -- AnneJ ICQ #:- 119531282 I`d keep the time controller on there and use it as a top up to natural light. Some of those sunbeds are quite powerful!!!!!! Interesting idea tho....... /me starts to scour the second hand ads. |
Got me seeds today
In article , Sacha writes: | | Here's what Ray is dictating to me about tomato growing: Most interesting. I may start my seeds a little earlier this year. | We would try to maintain a 60F temp. regime though it probably went to 55F | at night until much more modern heating was introduced. On some nurseries, | they would expect to see the first red tomatoes by the end of March. So warm but not modern house temperatures. | If you're going to use e.g. Levington's compost with a high nitrogen | content, the plants will be less controllable in terms of growth than they | would be in a John Innes compost. Once you water Levingtons, it's wet and | stays wet for some time so the plants grow fast. If you're growing in the | present amateur way, which is similar to the old fashioned commercial way, | you're probably better off using John Innes." Ah. So growth was controlled in other ways than temperature as well. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Got me seeds today
The message
from Anne Jackson contains these words: I have a redundant sunbed in the attic. Could the light problem be overcome, if I was to rig that up and bypass the automatic time control? -- AnneJ ICQ #:- 119531282 I`d keep the time controller on there and use it as a top up to natural light. Some of those sunbeds are quite powerful!!!!!! Interesting idea tho....... /me starts to scour the second hand ads. |
Got me seeds today
In article , Sacha writes: | | Here's what Ray is dictating to me about tomato growing: Most interesting. I may start my seeds a little earlier this year. | We would try to maintain a 60F temp. regime though it probably went to 55F | at night until much more modern heating was introduced. On some nurseries, | they would expect to see the first red tomatoes by the end of March. So warm but not modern house temperatures. | If you're going to use e.g. Levington's compost with a high nitrogen | content, the plants will be less controllable in terms of growth than they | would be in a John Innes compost. Once you water Levingtons, it's wet and | stays wet for some time so the plants grow fast. If you're growing in the | present amateur way, which is similar to the old fashioned commercial way, | you're probably better off using John Innes." Ah. So growth was controlled in other ways than temperature as well. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Got me seeds today
I wouldn't start all your seeds at once. I usually sow tomatoes and peppers (as well as things like courgettes) over a period of about 4-6 weeks. That way they don't all crop at once and you have the advantage that if one batch fails due to temperature, light, water, cat sitting on them, etc. you haven't lost everything for the season. You can also experiment as to when things grow best for your area, although this may change from year to year depending on conditions.
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Got me seeds today
"Sacha" wrote in message
.. . Sacha6/1/04 4:16 snip The reason for taking them out of the prop house and standing them in their pots in dibbed holes was to give them space and *stop* them fighting for light. I guess this implies that saying there isn't enough light early in the season is an over-simplification. It would be better to say that there is just less light so for each plant to have enough, they need to be planted further apart. I suppose this applies to a lot of other veg as well? PS. I always forget, is a tomato a vegetable or a fruit? -- Martin & Anna Sykes ( Remove x's when replying ) http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~sykesm |
Got me seeds today
Nick Maclaren7/1/04 1:03
In article , Sacha writes: | | Here's what Ray is dictating to me about tomato growing: Most interesting. I may start my seeds a little earlier this year. | We would try to maintain a 60F temp. regime though it probably went to 55F | at night until much more modern heating was introduced. On some nurseries, | they would expect to see the first red tomatoes by the end of March. So warm but not modern house temperatures. | If you're going to use e.g. Levington's compost with a high nitrogen | content, the plants will be less controllable in terms of growth than they | would be in a John Innes compost. Once you water Levingtons, it's wet and | stays wet for some time so the plants grow fast. If you're growing in the | present amateur way, which is similar to the old fashioned commercial way, | you're probably better off using John Innes." Ah. So growth was controlled in other ways than temperature as well. Yes, the points you pick out illustrate why Ray sent this post in this fashion. How they grew toms 'back then' is much more akin to what modern, amateur growers can achieve without considerable extra light and a lot more heat His family grew them to sell on as plants and to sell the fruits, too. They also grew lettuces and cucumbers. -- Sacha (remove the 'x' to email me) |
Got me seeds today
Martin Sykes7/1/04 1:49
om "Sacha" wrote in message .. . Sacha6/1/04 4:16 snip The reason for taking them out of the prop house and standing them in their pots in dibbed holes was to give them space and *stop* them fighting for light. I guess this implies that saying there isn't enough light early in the season is an over-simplification. It would be better to say that there is just less light so for each plant to have enough, they need to be planted further apart. I suppose this applies to a lot of other veg as well? Yes, as Ray was dictating that to me, it made me wonder if some amateur growers are keeping their own plants too crowded. That *would* make them fight for light and become weedy. PS. I always forget, is a tomato a vegetable or a fruit? It's a fruit - almost the only one I like. ;-) -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon (remove the 'x' to email me) |
Got me seeds today
The message
from Anne Jackson contains these words: I have a redundant sunbed in the attic. Could the light problem be overcome, if I was to rig that up and bypass the automatic time control? If you substituted daylight bulbs/tubes, I expect so. What are you thinking of growing? Cacti? Olives? Merulas? -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
Got me seeds today
The message
from Anne Jackson contains these words: I have a redundant sunbed in the attic. Could the light problem be overcome, if I was to rig that up and bypass the automatic time control? If you substituted daylight bulbs/tubes, I expect so. What are you thinking of growing? Cacti? Olives? Merulas? -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
Got me seeds today
In article , "Martin Sykes" writes: | | I guess this implies that saying there isn't enough light early in the | season is an over-simplification. It would be better to say that there is | just less light so for each plant to have enough, they need to be planted | further apart. I suppose this applies to a lot of other veg as well? Yes, no and yes, respectively. Planting them further apart is NOT enough - you must also not let them grow too fast. Normal modern house temperatures are too high, for a start. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Got me seeds today
The message
from "Martin Sykes" contains these words: PS. I always forget, is a tomato a vegetable or a fruit? You'll have to ask the EC. Apparently, carrots are now fruit..... -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
Got me seeds today
In article , "Martin Sykes" writes: | | I guess this implies that saying there isn't enough light early in the | season is an over-simplification. It would be better to say that there is | just less light so for each plant to have enough, they need to be planted | further apart. I suppose this applies to a lot of other veg as well? Yes, no and yes, respectively. Planting them further apart is NOT enough - you must also not let them grow too fast. Normal modern house temperatures are too high, for a start. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Got me seeds today
In article , "Martin Sykes" writes: | | I guess this implies that saying there isn't enough light early in the | season is an over-simplification. It would be better to say that there is | just less light so for each plant to have enough, they need to be planted | further apart. I suppose this applies to a lot of other veg as well? Yes, no and yes, respectively. Planting them further apart is NOT enough - you must also not let them grow too fast. Normal modern house temperatures are too high, for a start. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Got me seeds today
The message
from "Martin Sykes" contains these words: PS. I always forget, is a tomato a vegetable or a fruit? You'll have to ask the EC. Apparently, carrots are now fruit..... -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
Got me seeds today
The message
from "Martin Sykes" contains these words: PS. I always forget, is a tomato a vegetable or a fruit? You'll have to ask the EC. Apparently, carrots are now fruit..... -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
Got me seeds today
In article , "Martin Sykes" writes: | | I guess this implies that saying there isn't enough light early in the | season is an over-simplification. It would be better to say that there is | just less light so for each plant to have enough, they need to be planted | further apart. I suppose this applies to a lot of other veg as well? Yes, no and yes, respectively. Planting them further apart is NOT enough - you must also not let them grow too fast. Normal modern house temperatures are too high, for a start. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Got me seeds today
In article , "Martin Sykes" writes: | | I guess this implies that saying there isn't enough light early in the | season is an over-simplification. It would be better to say that there is | just less light so for each plant to have enough, they need to be planted | further apart. I suppose this applies to a lot of other veg as well? Yes, no and yes, respectively. Planting them further apart is NOT enough - you must also not let them grow too fast. Normal modern house temperatures are too high, for a start. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
Got me seeds today
The message
from "Martin Sykes" contains these words: PS. I always forget, is a tomato a vegetable or a fruit? You'll have to ask the EC. Apparently, carrots are now fruit..... -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
Got me seeds today
The message
from Jaques d'Alltrades contains these words: The message from Anne Jackson contains these words: I have a redundant sunbed in the attic. Could the light problem be overcome, if I was to rig that up and bypass the automatic time control? If you substituted daylight bulbs/tubes, I expect so. What are you thinking of growing? Cacti? Olives? Merulas? Texas Bluebonnets. -- AnneJ ICQ #:- 119531282 |
Got me seeds today
The message
from "Martin Sykes" contains these words: PS. I always forget, is a tomato a vegetable or a fruit? You'll have to ask the EC. Apparently, carrots are now fruit..... -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
Got me seeds today
The message
from Jaques d'Alltrades contains these words: The message from Anne Jackson contains these words: I have a redundant sunbed in the attic. Could the light problem be overcome, if I was to rig that up and bypass the automatic time control? If you substituted daylight bulbs/tubes, I expect so. What are you thinking of growing? Cacti? Olives? Merulas? Texas Bluebonnets. -- AnneJ ICQ #:- 119531282 |
Got me seeds today
The message
from "Martin Sykes" contains these words: PS. I always forget, is a tomato a vegetable or a fruit? You'll have to ask the EC. Apparently, carrots are now fruit..... -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
Got me seeds today
The message
from "Martin Sykes" contains these words: PS. I always forget, is a tomato a vegetable or a fruit? You'll have to ask the EC. Apparently, carrots are now fruit..... -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
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