Bay Tree Problem
 

Hi,

I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down a problem with my Bay Tree.

We originally had two Bay Trees, the first one died last year with this problem and now it's spread to the other one.

These are the symptoms:

a. Sticky Leaves
b. Leaves go from normal green, to a light green and finally to a dried up golden brown and fall off.
c. Occassionally the leaves go black at the tips

I have inspected all the leaves and there is no signs of any insects big or small.

There is also no sign of any "soot".

Please help!

Thanks.

Bay Tree Problem
 

In message m,
peter123 writes
Hi,

I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down a problem with
my Bay Tree.

We originally had two Bay Trees, the first one died last year with this
problem and now it's spread to the other one.

These are the symptoms:

a. Sticky Leaves
b. Leaves go from normal green, to a light green and finally to a dried
up golden brown and fall off.
c. Occassionally the leaves go black at the tips

I have inspected all the leaves and there is no signs of any insects
big or small.

There is also no sign of any "soot".

Please help!
Peter, this sounds very much like scale insect (not sure if that's their
proper name)to me. They are tiny creatures that are hard to spot
because they are flat and look like flaky bits. It happened to my
grapefruit tree a few years ago. Take a magnifying glass to the
undersides of the leaves at the main vein that runs beneath the leaf.
If you see brown flat bits there, you may have scale. I found it almost
impossible to eradicate them, and finally had to dump the tree
altogether, and I'd grown it from seed. It was 10 years old.
--
Chris Boulby National Collection of Diascias
Please note new email address:

Bay Tree Problem
 

In message m,
peter123 writes
Hi,

I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down a problem with
my Bay Tree.

We originally had two Bay Trees, the first one died last year with this
problem and now it's spread to the other one.

These are the symptoms:

a. Sticky Leaves
b. Leaves go from normal green, to a light green and finally to a dried
up golden brown and fall off.
c. Occassionally the leaves go black at the tips

I have inspected all the leaves and there is no signs of any insects
big or small.

There is also no sign of any "soot".

Please help!
Peter, this sounds very much like scale insect (not sure if that's their
proper name)to me. They are tiny creatures that are hard to spot
because they are flat and look like flaky bits. It happened to my
grapefruit tree a few years ago. Take a magnifying glass to the
undersides of the leaves at the main vein that runs beneath the leaf.
If you see brown flat bits there, you may have scale. I found it almost
impossible to eradicate them, and finally had to dump the tree
altogether, and I'd grown it from seed. It was 10 years old.
--
Chris Boulby National Collection of Diascias
Please note new email address:

Bay Tree Problem
 

In message m,
peter123 writes
Hi,

I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down a problem with
my Bay Tree.

We originally had two Bay Trees, the first one died last year with this
problem and now it's spread to the other one.

These are the symptoms:

a. Sticky Leaves
b. Leaves go from normal green, to a light green and finally to a dried
up golden brown and fall off.
c. Occassionally the leaves go black at the tips

I have inspected all the leaves and there is no signs of any insects
big or small.

There is also no sign of any "soot".

Please help!
Peter, this sounds very much like scale insect (not sure if that's their
proper name)to me. They are tiny creatures that are hard to spot
because they are flat and look like flaky bits. It happened to my
grapefruit tree a few years ago. Take a magnifying glass to the
undersides of the leaves at the main vein that runs beneath the leaf.
If you see brown flat bits there, you may have scale. I found it almost
impossible to eradicate them, and finally had to dump the tree
altogether, and I'd grown it from seed. It was 10 years old.
--
Chris Boulby National Collection of Diascias
Please note new email address:

Bay Tree Problem
 

In article ,
Chris Boulby wrote:

Peter, this sounds very much like scale insect (not sure if that's their
proper name)to me. They are tiny creatures that are hard to spot
because they are flat and look like flaky bits. It happened to my
grapefruit tree a few years ago. Take a magnifying glass to the
undersides of the leaves at the main vein that runs beneath the leaf.
If you see brown flat bits there, you may have scale. I found it almost
impossible to eradicate them, and finally had to dump the tree
altogether, and I'd grown it from seed. It was 10 years old.

Yes. That's their name, all right, and there are several that can
infest bay. I have got rid of them from bay and citrus on SMALL
plants, by scraping off or damaging every scale with a blunt knife
or similar. 2-3 goes and they have gone. But that does mean going
over EVERY stem and EVERY leaf, which could be time consuming on a
larger plant ....


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Bay Tree Problem
 

In article ,
Chris Boulby wrote:

Peter, this sounds very much like scale insect (not sure if that's their
proper name)to me. They are tiny creatures that are hard to spot
because they are flat and look like flaky bits. It happened to my
grapefruit tree a few years ago. Take a magnifying glass to the
undersides of the leaves at the main vein that runs beneath the leaf.
If you see brown flat bits there, you may have scale. I found it almost
impossible to eradicate them, and finally had to dump the tree
altogether, and I'd grown it from seed. It was 10 years old.

Yes. That's their name, all right, and there are several that can
infest bay. I have got rid of them from bay and citrus on SMALL
plants, by scraping off or damaging every scale with a blunt knife
or similar. 2-3 goes and they have gone. But that does mean going
over EVERY stem and EVERY leaf, which could be time consuming on a
larger plant ....


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Bay Tree Problem
 

I would imagine if it was scale insect you would see the scales especially
if they are totally killing the plant.You could look at other things like if
it is pot planted does it need repotting,check the roots ,could it have a
deficiency,have a good look at the plant for pests they should be visible.Is
the plant in a exposed position.If it is none of these it must be diseased.

--
Thanks Keith
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Chris Boulby wrote:

Peter, this sounds very much like scale insect (not sure if that's their
proper name)to me. They are tiny creatures that are hard to spot
because they are flat and look like flaky bits. It happened to my
grapefruit tree a few years ago. Take a magnifying glass to the
undersides of the leaves at the main vein that runs beneath the leaf.
If you see brown flat bits there, you may have scale. I found it almost
impossible to eradicate them, and finally had to dump the tree
altogether, and I'd grown it from seed. It was 10 years old.

Yes. That's their name, all right, and there are several that can
infest bay. I have got rid of them from bay and citrus on SMALL
plants, by scraping off or damaging every scale with a blunt knife
or similar. 2-3 goes and they have gone. But that does mean going
over EVERY stem and EVERY leaf, which could be time consuming on a
larger plant ....


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Bay Tree Problem
 

I would imagine if it was scale insect you would see the scales especially
if they are totally killing the plant.You could look at other things like if
it is pot planted does it need repotting,check the roots ,could it have a
deficiency,have a good look at the plant for pests they should be visible.Is
the plant in a exposed position.If it is none of these it must be diseased.

--
Thanks Keith
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Chris Boulby wrote:

Peter, this sounds very much like scale insect (not sure if that's their
proper name)to me. They are tiny creatures that are hard to spot
because they are flat and look like flaky bits. It happened to my
grapefruit tree a few years ago. Take a magnifying glass to the
undersides of the leaves at the main vein that runs beneath the leaf.
If you see brown flat bits there, you may have scale. I found it almost
impossible to eradicate them, and finally had to dump the tree
altogether, and I'd grown it from seed. It was 10 years old.

Yes. That's their name, all right, and there are several that can
infest bay. I have got rid of them from bay and citrus on SMALL
plants, by scraping off or damaging every scale with a blunt knife
or similar. 2-3 goes and they have gone. But that does mean going
over EVERY stem and EVERY leaf, which could be time consuming on a
larger plant ....


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Bay Tree Problem
 

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:56:01 GMT, peter123 wrote:

I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down a problem with
my Bay Tree.

We originally had two Bay Trees, the first one died last year with this
problem and now it's spread to the other one.

These are the symptoms:

a. Sticky Leaves
b. Leaves go from normal green, to a light green and finally to a dried
up golden brown and fall off.
c. Occassionally the leaves go black at the tips

I have inspected all the leaves and there is no signs of any insects
big or small.

There is also no sign of any "soot".

Look at the underside of the leaves near the mid-rib. Are there
thin, pale yellowy-browny deposits there that look something like
wax? If so, you have "soft brown scale." It's a bitch to get rid
of, but if you don't mind using pettochemical-based insecticides,
malathion will do a splendid job. Spray *thoroughly*, leave it
for about 15 minutes, then wash it off with spray from a hose.

Do NOT try to use malathion in the house. You must do this
outside.

I'm also assuming that the stuff is still on the market.

Alternatively, methodically scrub the scale insects off using a
soft toothbrush and soapy water. Soap, not detergent.

No matter what method you use to get rid of scale, stay alert for
reinfestations; it's a very difficult pest to eradicate
completely and is sufficiently ubiquitous in the environment that
clean plants can easily become reinfested.

--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

Bay Tree Problem
 

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:56:01 GMT, peter123 wrote:

I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down a problem with
my Bay Tree.

We originally had two Bay Trees, the first one died last year with this
problem and now it's spread to the other one.

These are the symptoms:

a. Sticky Leaves
b. Leaves go from normal green, to a light green and finally to a dried
up golden brown and fall off.
c. Occassionally the leaves go black at the tips

I have inspected all the leaves and there is no signs of any insects
big or small.

There is also no sign of any "soot".

Look at the underside of the leaves near the mid-rib. Are there
thin, pale yellowy-browny deposits there that look something like
wax? If so, you have "soft brown scale." It's a bitch to get rid
of, but if you don't mind using pettochemical-based insecticides,
malathion will do a splendid job. Spray *thoroughly*, leave it
for about 15 minutes, then wash it off with spray from a hose.

Do NOT try to use malathion in the house. You must do this
outside.

I'm also assuming that the stuff is still on the market.

Alternatively, methodically scrub the scale insects off using a
soft toothbrush and soapy water. Soap, not detergent.

No matter what method you use to get rid of scale, stay alert for
reinfestations; it's a very difficult pest to eradicate
completely and is sufficiently ubiquitous in the environment that
clean plants can easily become reinfested.

--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

Bay Tree Problem
 

peter123 wrote:

Hi,

I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down a problem with
my Bay Tree.

We originally had two Bay Trees, the first one died last year with this
problem and now it's spread to the other one.

These are the symptoms:

a. Sticky Leaves
b. Leaves go from normal green, to a light green and finally to a dried
up golden brown and fall off.
c. Occassionally the leaves go black at the tips

I have inspected all the leaves and there is no signs of any insects
big or small.

There is also no sign of any "soot".

Have you used a good hand lens?
Pot grown?
Indoors or out?

The sticky leaves are almost certainly the result of honeydew excreted by a
sucking pest. Scale insects are the usual suspects, aphids at this time of year
are unlikely outdoors, indoors they will be small and difficult to see, look
right inside the growing points. If it's indoors get it outside this spring and
keep it outside in a sheltered place.
Pests are probably not your only problem. What about watering/feeding,
especially critical if pot grown. A typical scenario is 'See plant looking
poorly - water it, A day or 2 later it looks worse - water it more - some days
later - it wasn't enough!? - put some feed in with the water............and so
it goes on - feed wasn't strong enough?! - double the dose...............dead
plant'
Like feeding a sick baby on gin and kippers. All this is worse if what is
essentially a hardy plant is grown in a pot indoors. I'm putting this as a
suggestion, not an accusation but you wouldn't be the first and you won't be
the last.
--
Rod
http://website.lineone.net/%7Erodcraddock/index.html
My email address needs weeding.

Bay Tree Problem
 

peter123 wrote:

Hi,

I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down a problem with
my Bay Tree.

We originally had two Bay Trees, the first one died last year with this
problem and now it's spread to the other one.

These are the symptoms:

a. Sticky Leaves
b. Leaves go from normal green, to a light green and finally to a dried
up golden brown and fall off.
c. Occassionally the leaves go black at the tips

I have inspected all the leaves and there is no signs of any insects
big or small.

There is also no sign of any "soot".

Have you used a good hand lens?
Pot grown?
Indoors or out?

The sticky leaves are almost certainly the result of honeydew excreted by a
sucking pest. Scale insects are the usual suspects, aphids at this time of year
are unlikely outdoors, indoors they will be small and difficult to see, look
right inside the growing points. If it's indoors get it outside this spring and
keep it outside in a sheltered place.
Pests are probably not your only problem. What about watering/feeding,
especially critical if pot grown. A typical scenario is 'See plant looking
poorly - water it, A day or 2 later it looks worse - water it more - some days
later - it wasn't enough!? - put some feed in with the water............and so
it goes on - feed wasn't strong enough?! - double the dose...............dead
plant'
Like feeding a sick baby on gin and kippers. All this is worse if what is
essentially a hardy plant is grown in a pot indoors. I'm putting this as a
suggestion, not an accusation but you wouldn't be the first and you won't be
the last.
--
Rod
http://website.lineone.net/%7Erodcraddock/index.html
My email address needs weeding.

Bay Tree Problem
 

"peter123" wrote in message
s.com...
Hi,

I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down a problem with
my Bay Tree.

We originally had two Bay Trees, the first one died last year with this
problem and now it's spread to the other one.

These are the symptoms:

a. Sticky Leaves
b. Leaves go from normal green, to a light green and finally to a dried
up golden brown and fall off.
c. Occassionally the leaves go black at the tips

I have inspected all the leaves and there is no signs of any insects
big or small.

There is also no sign of any "soot".

Please help!

Thanks.
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Attachment filename: bay leaf 2.jpg |
|View attachment:
http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/attach...?postid=329318|
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
--
peter123
------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted via www.GardenBanter.co.uk

Bay Tree Problem
 

"peter123" wrote in message
s.com...
Hi,

I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down a problem with
my Bay Tree.

We originally had two Bay Trees, the first one died last year with this
problem and now it's spread to the other one.

These are the symptoms:

a. Sticky Leaves
b. Leaves go from normal green, to a light green and finally to a dried
up golden brown and fall off.
c. Occassionally the leaves go black at the tips

I have inspected all the leaves and there is no signs of any insects
big or small.

There is also no sign of any "soot".

Please help!

Apart from the scale insects, especially if pot grown, they can succumb to
vine weevil.

I guess you would have to remove the plant from the pot (assuming potted)
and examine the roots.

If there aren't any, then this is probably your problem :-(

If the roots are healthy then repot and look for 'sucking' pests.

However scale insect should not kill a bay - bad feeding/watering is the
thing that normally kills them.

HTH

Dave R

Bay Tree Problem
 

"peter123" wrote in message
s.com...
Hi,

I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down a problem with
my Bay Tree.

We originally had two Bay Trees, the first one died last year with this
problem and now it's spread to the other one.

These are the symptoms:

a. Sticky Leaves
b. Leaves go from normal green, to a light green and finally to a dried
up golden brown and fall off.
c. Occassionally the leaves go black at the tips

I have inspected all the leaves and there is no signs of any insects
big or small.

There is also no sign of any "soot".

Please help!

Thanks.
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Attachment filename: bay leaf 2.jpg |
|View attachment:
http://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/attach...?postid=329318|
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
--
peter123
------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted via www.GardenBanter.co.uk

Bay Tree Problem
 

"peter123" wrote in message
s.com...
Hi,

I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down a problem with
my Bay Tree.

We originally had two Bay Trees, the first one died last year with this
problem and now it's spread to the other one.

These are the symptoms:

a. Sticky Leaves
b. Leaves go from normal green, to a light green and finally to a dried
up golden brown and fall off.
c. Occassionally the leaves go black at the tips

I have inspected all the leaves and there is no signs of any insects
big or small.

There is also no sign of any "soot".

Please help!

Apart from the scale insects, especially if pot grown, they can succumb to
vine weevil.

I guess you would have to remove the plant from the pot (assuming potted)
and examine the roots.

If there aren't any, then this is probably your problem :-(

If the roots are healthy then repot and look for 'sucking' pests.

However scale insect should not kill a bay - bad feeding/watering is the
thing that normally kills them.

HTH

Dave R

Bay Tree Problem
 

In message , David W.E.
Roberts writes

"peter123" wrote in message
ws.com...
Hi,

I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down a problem with
my Bay Tree.

We originally had two Bay Trees, the first one died last year with this
problem and now it's spread to the other one.

These are the symptoms:

a. Sticky Leaves
b. Leaves go from normal green, to a light green and finally to a dried
up golden brown and fall off.
c. Occassionally the leaves go black at the tips

I have inspected all the leaves and there is no signs of any insects
big or small.

There is also no sign of any "soot".

Please help!

Apart from the scale insects, especially if pot grown, they can succumb to
vine weevil.

I guess you would have to remove the plant from the pot (assuming potted)
and examine the roots.

If there aren't any, then this is probably your problem :-(

If the roots are healthy then repot and look for 'sucking' pests.

However scale insect should not kill a bay - bad feeding/watering is the
thing that normally kills them.

Vine weevils don't create sooty, or sticky deposits on the leaves. The
symptoms suggest scale.
--
Christine Boulby National Collection of Diascia
Northumberland
email:
www.coniston.demon.co.uk

Bay Tree Problem
 

In message , David W.E.
Roberts writes

"peter123" wrote in message
ws.com...
Hi,

I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down a problem with
my Bay Tree.

We originally had two Bay Trees, the first one died last year with this
problem and now it's spread to the other one.

These are the symptoms:

a. Sticky Leaves
b. Leaves go from normal green, to a light green and finally to a dried
up golden brown and fall off.
c. Occassionally the leaves go black at the tips

I have inspected all the leaves and there is no signs of any insects
big or small.

There is also no sign of any "soot".

Please help!

Apart from the scale insects, especially if pot grown, they can succumb to
vine weevil.

I guess you would have to remove the plant from the pot (assuming potted)
and examine the roots.

If there aren't any, then this is probably your problem :-(

If the roots are healthy then repot and look for 'sucking' pests.

However scale insect should not kill a bay - bad feeding/watering is the
thing that normally kills them.

Vine weevils don't create sooty, or sticky deposits on the leaves. The
symptoms suggest scale.
--
Christine Boulby National Collection of Diascia
Northumberland
email:
www.coniston.demon.co.uk

Bay Tree Problem
 

Hi,

Thanks for all the advice here.

The plant is potted (it's about 2.5 foot tall) and has been outdoors throughout the summer and most of autumn.

When the weather started getting bad (October), I brought the plant inside.

The first Bay plant had this problem when it was outside.

The second Bay plant was very healthy when it was brought in, but has deteriated rapidly over the last month.

I've had another look at the leaves and you're right, I can see something on the underside....they appear to be small brown (1mmx2mm) marks which run up the middle of the leaf...so I think you're right....the brown marks also come off if I scrape them with my finger (see picture).

The problem is that this is on every leaf and there's no way I will be able to scrape them all off.

The problem has become so serious (and please bear in mind I'm a complete novice), that I am considering removing all the leaves and seeing if it will grow again from the root (this is what I have read about Bay Trees)....is this sensible?

You are absolutely right about over watering, so I've been quite careful here. The advice I read (and followed), was that you water the plant during winter when the compost feels dry to touch...maybe this wasn't right?

Thanks for all your advice.

Bay Tree Problem
 

"Chris Boulby" wrote in message
...
snip
Apart from the scale insects, especially if pot grown, they can succumb
to
vine weevil.

I guess you would have to remove the plant from the pot (assuming potted)
and examine the roots.

If there aren't any, then this is probably your problem :-(

If the roots are healthy then repot and look for 'sucking' pests.

However scale insect should not kill a bay - bad feeding/watering is the
thing that normally kills them.

Vine weevils don't create sooty, or sticky deposits on the leaves. The
symptoms suggest scale.

Agreed.

However it seems unlikely (from my experience) that a scale infestation
which is not immediately obvious could be having such a drastic effect on
the tree.

I am therefore suggesting that the presence of scale insects could be a 'red
herring' and the cause of the serious problems could lie elswhere.

The major damage to my small collection of bay trees in pots have been from
vine weevil (one tree), and forgetting to water in the summer (an offshoot
which had been repotted this year).

Although a couple have had major scale insect infestations this has not
shown any sign of reducing their vigour much, let alone killing them off.

I note from a subsequent post bt the OP that they have been brought in for
the winter.

IMHO this is more likely to cause problems - at least in mild Suffolk my
bays stay out all year round (as do the trees which are planted in the soil,
obviously). They are a remarkably hardy tree under most circumstances,
although slow growing.

Another benefit of leaving the trees out in the winter is that frost should
kill off most of the scale insects.

So the tree may have a scale infestation, but this shouldn't kill it off.

Cheers

Dave R

Bay Tree Problem
 

"Chris Boulby" wrote in message
...
snip
Apart from the scale insects, especially if pot grown, they can succumb
to
vine weevil.

I guess you would have to remove the plant from the pot (assuming potted)
and examine the roots.

If there aren't any, then this is probably your problem :-(

If the roots are healthy then repot and look for 'sucking' pests.

However scale insect should not kill a bay - bad feeding/watering is the
thing that normally kills them.

Vine weevils don't create sooty, or sticky deposits on the leaves. The
symptoms suggest scale.

Agreed.

However it seems unlikely (from my experience) that a scale infestation
which is not immediately obvious could be having such a drastic effect on
the tree.

I am therefore suggesting that the presence of scale insects could be a 'red
herring' and the cause of the serious problems could lie elswhere.

The major damage to my small collection of bay trees in pots have been from
vine weevil (one tree), and forgetting to water in the summer (an offshoot
which had been repotted this year).

Although a couple have had major scale insect infestations this has not
shown any sign of reducing their vigour much, let alone killing them off.

I note from a subsequent post bt the OP that they have been brought in for
the winter.

IMHO this is more likely to cause problems - at least in mild Suffolk my
bays stay out all year round (as do the trees which are planted in the soil,
obviously). They are a remarkably hardy tree under most circumstances,
although slow growing.

Another benefit of leaving the trees out in the winter is that frost should
kill off most of the scale insects.

So the tree may have a scale infestation, but this shouldn't kill it off.

Cheers

Dave R

Bay Tree Problem
 

"Chris Boulby" wrote in message
...
snip
Apart from the scale insects, especially if pot grown, they can succumb
to
vine weevil.

I guess you would have to remove the plant from the pot (assuming potted)
and examine the roots.

If there aren't any, then this is probably your problem :-(

If the roots are healthy then repot and look for 'sucking' pests.

However scale insect should not kill a bay - bad feeding/watering is the
thing that normally kills them.

Vine weevils don't create sooty, or sticky deposits on the leaves. The
symptoms suggest scale.

Agreed.

However it seems unlikely (from my experience) that a scale infestation
which is not immediately obvious could be having such a drastic effect on
the tree.

I am therefore suggesting that the presence of scale insects could be a 'red
herring' and the cause of the serious problems could lie elswhere.

The major damage to my small collection of bay trees in pots have been from
vine weevil (one tree), and forgetting to water in the summer (an offshoot
which had been repotted this year).

Although a couple have had major scale insect infestations this has not
shown any sign of reducing their vigour much, let alone killing them off.

I note from a subsequent post bt the OP that they have been brought in for
the winter.

IMHO this is more likely to cause problems - at least in mild Suffolk my
bays stay out all year round (as do the trees which are planted in the soil,
obviously). They are a remarkably hardy tree under most circumstances,
although slow growing.

Another benefit of leaving the trees out in the winter is that frost should
kill off most of the scale insects.

So the tree may have a scale infestation, but this shouldn't kill it off.

Cheers

Dave R

Bay Tree Problem
 

"Chris Boulby" wrote in message
...
snip
Apart from the scale insects, especially if pot grown, they can succumb
to
vine weevil.

I guess you would have to remove the plant from the pot (assuming potted)
and examine the roots.

If there aren't any, then this is probably your problem :-(

If the roots are healthy then repot and look for 'sucking' pests.

However scale insect should not kill a bay - bad feeding/watering is the
thing that normally kills them.

Vine weevils don't create sooty, or sticky deposits on the leaves. The
symptoms suggest scale.

Agreed.

However it seems unlikely (from my experience) that a scale infestation
which is not immediately obvious could be having such a drastic effect on
the tree.

I am therefore suggesting that the presence of scale insects could be a 'red
herring' and the cause of the serious problems could lie elswhere.

The major damage to my small collection of bay trees in pots have been from
vine weevil (one tree), and forgetting to water in the summer (an offshoot
which had been repotted this year).

Although a couple have had major scale insect infestations this has not
shown any sign of reducing their vigour much, let alone killing them off.

I note from a subsequent post bt the OP that they have been brought in for
the winter.

IMHO this is more likely to cause problems - at least in mild Suffolk my
bays stay out all year round (as do the trees which are planted in the soil,
obviously). They are a remarkably hardy tree under most circumstances,
although slow growing.

Another benefit of leaving the trees out in the winter is that frost should
kill off most of the scale insects.

So the tree may have a scale infestation, but this shouldn't kill it off.

Cheers

Dave R

Bay Tree Problem
 

"Chris Boulby" wrote in message
...
snip
Apart from the scale insects, especially if pot grown, they can succumb
to
vine weevil.

I guess you would have to remove the plant from the pot (assuming potted)
and examine the roots.

If there aren't any, then this is probably your problem :-(

If the roots are healthy then repot and look for 'sucking' pests.

However scale insect should not kill a bay - bad feeding/watering is the
thing that normally kills them.

Vine weevils don't create sooty, or sticky deposits on the leaves. The
symptoms suggest scale.

Agreed.

However it seems unlikely (from my experience) that a scale infestation
which is not immediately obvious could be having such a drastic effect on
the tree.

I am therefore suggesting that the presence of scale insects could be a 'red
herring' and the cause of the serious problems could lie elswhere.

The major damage to my small collection of bay trees in pots have been from
vine weevil (one tree), and forgetting to water in the summer (an offshoot
which had been repotted this year).

Although a couple have had major scale insect infestations this has not
shown any sign of reducing their vigour much, let alone killing them off.

I note from a subsequent post bt the OP that they have been brought in for
the winter.

IMHO this is more likely to cause problems - at least in mild Suffolk my
bays stay out all year round (as do the trees which are planted in the soil,
obviously). They are a remarkably hardy tree under most circumstances,
although slow growing.

Another benefit of leaving the trees out in the winter is that frost should
kill off most of the scale insects.

So the tree may have a scale infestation, but this shouldn't kill it off.

Cheers

Dave R

Bay Tree Problem
 

In article m,
peter123 writes
peter123 wrote:
*Hi,


I've had another look at the leaves and you're right, I can see
something on the underside....they appear to be small brown (1mmx2mm)
marks which run up the middle of the leaf...so I think you're
right....the brown marks also come off if I scrape them with my finger
(see picture).

Yes. Definitely scale insect. Good pic!

The problem is that this is on every leaf and there's no way I will be
able to scrape them all off.

The problem has become so serious (and please bear in mind I'm a
complete novice), that I am considering removing all the leaves and
seeing if it will grow again from the root (this is what I have read
about Bay Trees)....is this sensible?

Try a compromise - decide on a number - if leaf has more than that
number of scale, pick it off, otherwise, remove the scale.
You'll also find scale insect on the stems, so check those too.


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Bay Tree Problem
 

In article m,
peter123 writes
peter123 wrote:
*Hi,


I've had another look at the leaves and you're right, I can see
something on the underside....they appear to be small brown (1mmx2mm)
marks which run up the middle of the leaf...so I think you're
right....the brown marks also come off if I scrape them with my finger
(see picture).

Yes. Definitely scale insect. Good pic!

The problem is that this is on every leaf and there's no way I will be
able to scrape them all off.

The problem has become so serious (and please bear in mind I'm a
complete novice), that I am considering removing all the leaves and
seeing if it will grow again from the root (this is what I have read
about Bay Trees)....is this sensible?

Try a compromise - decide on a number - if leaf has more than that
number of scale, pick it off, otherwise, remove the scale.
You'll also find scale insect on the stems, so check those too.


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Bay Tree Problem
 

peter123 wrote:

peter123 wrote:

I've had another look at the leaves and you're right, I can see
something on the underside....they appear to be small brown (1mmx2mm)
marks which run up the middle of the leaf...so I think you're
right....the brown marks also come off if I scrape them with my finger
(see picture).

The problem is that this is on every leaf and there's no way I will be
able to scrape them all off.

Nice picture of soft scale - wish I'd seen that before I posted my first answer.
I think everbody else has covered the treatment.
--
Rod
http://website.lineone.net/%7Erodcraddock/index.html
My email address needs weeding.

Bay Tree Problem
 

peter123 wrote:

peter123 wrote:

I've had another look at the leaves and you're right, I can see
something on the underside....they appear to be small brown (1mmx2mm)
marks which run up the middle of the leaf...so I think you're
right....the brown marks also come off if I scrape them with my finger
(see picture).

The problem is that this is on every leaf and there's no way I will be
able to scrape them all off.

Nice picture of soft scale - wish I'd seen that before I posted my first answer.
I think everbody else has covered the treatment.
--
Rod
http://website.lineone.net/%7Erodcraddock/index.html
My email address needs weeding.

Bay Tree Problem
 

peter123 wrote:

peter123 wrote:

I've had another look at the leaves and you're right, I can see
something on the underside....they appear to be small brown (1mmx2mm)
marks which run up the middle of the leaf...so I think you're
right....the brown marks also come off if I scrape them with my finger
(see picture).

The problem is that this is on every leaf and there's no way I will be
able to scrape them all off.

Nice picture of soft scale - wish I'd seen that before I posted my first answer.
I think everbody else has covered the treatment.
--
Rod
http://website.lineone.net/%7Erodcraddock/index.html
My email address needs weeding.

Bay Tree Problem
 

"Rod" wrote in message
...
peter123 wrote:

peter123 wrote:

I've had another look at the leaves and you're right, I can see
something on the underside....they appear to be small brown (1mmx2mm)
marks which run up the middle of the leaf...so I think you're
right....the brown marks also come off if I scrape them with my finger
(see picture).

The problem is that this is on every leaf and there's no way I will be
able to scrape them all off.

Nice picture of soft scale - wish I'd seen that before I posted my first
answer.
I think everbody else has covered the treatment.
--
Rod
http://website.lineone.net/%7Erodcraddock/index.html
My email address needs weeding.

Would it be easier at this time of year, to just remove all the leaves. It
should be dormant at the moment and getting ready to produce new growth soon
anyway.

--
Martin & Anna Sykes
( Remove x's when replying )
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~sykesm

Bay Tree Problem
 

"Rod" wrote in message
...
peter123 wrote:

peter123 wrote:

I've had another look at the leaves and you're right, I can see
something on the underside....they appear to be small brown (1mmx2mm)
marks which run up the middle of the leaf...so I think you're
right....the brown marks also come off if I scrape them with my finger
(see picture).

The problem is that this is on every leaf and there's no way I will be
able to scrape them all off.

Nice picture of soft scale - wish I'd seen that before I posted my first
answer.
I think everbody else has covered the treatment.
--
Rod
http://website.lineone.net/%7Erodcraddock/index.html
My email address needs weeding.

Would it be easier at this time of year, to just remove all the leaves. It
should be dormant at the moment and getting ready to produce new growth soon
anyway.

--
Martin & Anna Sykes
( Remove x's when replying )
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~sykesm

Bay Tree Problem
 

In message m,
peter123 writes
peter123 wrote:
*Hi,

I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down a problem
with my Bay Tree.

We originally had two Bay Trees, the first one died last year with
this problem and now it's spread to the other one.

These are the symptoms:

a. Sticky Leaves
b. Leaves go from normal green, to a light green and finally to a
dried up golden brown and fall off.
c. Occassionally the leaves go black at the tips

I have inspected all the leaves and there is no signs of any insects
big or small.

There is also no sign of any "soot".

Please help!

Thanks. *

Hi,

Thanks for all the advice here.

The plant is potted (it's about 2.5 foot tall) and has been outdoors
throughout the summer and most of autumn.

When the weather started getting bad (October), I brought the plant
inside.

The first Bay plant had this problem when it was outside.

The second Bay plant was very healthy when it was brought in, but has
deteriated rapidly over the last month.

I've had another look at the leaves and you're right, I can see
something on the underside....they appear to be small brown (1mmx2mm)
marks which run up the middle of the leaf...so I think you're
right....the brown marks also come off if I scrape them with my finger
(see picture).

The problem is that this is on every leaf and there's no way I will be
able to scrape them all off.

The problem has become so serious (and please bear in mind I'm a
complete novice), that I am considering removing all the leaves and
seeing if it will grow again from the root (this is what I have read
about Bay Trees)....is this sensible?

You are absolutely right about over watering, so I've been quite
careful here. The advice I read (and followed), was that you water the
plant during winter when the compost feels dry to touch...maybe this
wasn't right?

Peter, I've just had another thought. What about putting in the ground
outside and seeing if it recovers. Not right now of course, but as soon
as it warms up a bit. I planted my Bay outside when I moved here in
1995 and it now has to be severely hacked back annually or it would grow
too big for its boots so to speak.

I have another that is a mere sapling and I put it in the cold frame for
the winter and it looks very healthy.

The place I put mine is north facing and it gets very little direct sun
except at the summer solstice time. It is sheltered by the brick wall
of the house and a wooden fence, so it doesn't get our strong winds
unless they blow from the north. But it has not looked back since the
day I planted it really, and I remember reading that it was a bit
tender. Soil is moist but stony and slightly acid sandy so its free
draining.

Good luck!
--
Chris Boulby National Collection of Diascias

Bay Tree Problem
 

In message m,
peter123 writes
peter123 wrote:
*Hi,

I am having a great deal of difficulty in tracking down a problem
with my Bay Tree.

We originally had two Bay Trees, the first one died last year with
this problem and now it's spread to the other one.

These are the symptoms:

a. Sticky Leaves
b. Leaves go from normal green, to a light green and finally to a
dried up golden brown and fall off.
c. Occassionally the leaves go black at the tips

I have inspected all the leaves and there is no signs of any insects
big or small.

There is also no sign of any "soot".

Please help!

Thanks. *

Hi,

Thanks for all the advice here.

The plant is potted (it's about 2.5 foot tall) and has been outdoors
throughout the summer and most of autumn.

When the weather started getting bad (October), I brought the plant
inside.

The first Bay plant had this problem when it was outside.

The second Bay plant was very healthy when it was brought in, but has
deteriated rapidly over the last month.

I've had another look at the leaves and you're right, I can see
something on the underside....they appear to be small brown (1mmx2mm)
marks which run up the middle of the leaf...so I think you're
right....the brown marks also come off if I scrape them with my finger
(see picture).

The problem is that this is on every leaf and there's no way I will be
able to scrape them all off.

The problem has become so serious (and please bear in mind I'm a
complete novice), that I am considering removing all the leaves and
seeing if it will grow again from the root (this is what I have read
about Bay Trees)....is this sensible?

You are absolutely right about over watering, so I've been quite
careful here. The advice I read (and followed), was that you water the
plant during winter when the compost feels dry to touch...maybe this
wasn't right?

Peter, I've just had another thought. What about putting in the ground
outside and seeing if it recovers. Not right now of course, but as soon
as it warms up a bit. I planted my Bay outside when I moved here in
1995 and it now has to be severely hacked back annually or it would grow
too big for its boots so to speak.

I have another that is a mere sapling and I put it in the cold frame for
the winter and it looks very healthy.

The place I put mine is north facing and it gets very little direct sun
except at the summer solstice time. It is sheltered by the brick wall
of the house and a wooden fence, so it doesn't get our strong winds
unless they blow from the north. But it has not looked back since the
day I planted it really, and I remember reading that it was a bit
tender. Soil is moist but stony and slightly acid sandy so its free
draining.

Good luck!
--
Chris Boulby National Collection of Diascias

Bay Tree Problem
 

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:30:18 GMT, peter123 wrote:

I've had another look at the leaves and you're right, I can see
something on the underside....they appear to be small brown (1mmx2mm)
marks which run up the middle of the leaf...so I think you're
right....the brown marks also come off if I scrape them with my finger
(see picture).

The problem is that this is on every leaf and there's no way I will be
able to scrape them all off.

Others have done it, so can you. Soft toothbrush, soapy water. Or
a soft plastic implement of some sort that won't harm the leaf
itself. Or even a fingernail. Clean a few leaves every day and in
a surprisingly short while, you will be finished. And there's
something intensely satisfying about controlling pests by killing
them one by one, by hand.

The problem has become so serious (and please bear in mind I'm a
complete novice), that I am considering removing all the leaves and
seeing if it will grow again from the root (this is what I have read
about Bay Trees)....is this sensible?

The tree is already badly weakened; imo you may kill it by
defoliating it. And since scale insects also attack the younger
twigs with thin bark, removing the leaves won't entirely expunge
them.

In the future, once you've cleaned up your bay tree or replaced
it with a healthy one, it would be wise to keep an eye peeled for
reinfestation. Just check the undersides of a few leaves every
week or so; when scale appears, take action promptly.

--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

Bay Tree Problem
 

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:30:18 GMT, peter123 wrote:

I've had another look at the leaves and you're right, I can see
something on the underside....they appear to be small brown (1mmx2mm)
marks which run up the middle of the leaf...so I think you're
right....the brown marks also come off if I scrape them with my finger
(see picture).

The problem is that this is on every leaf and there's no way I will be
able to scrape them all off.

Others have done it, so can you. Soft toothbrush, soapy water. Or
a soft plastic implement of some sort that won't harm the leaf
itself. Or even a fingernail. Clean a few leaves every day and in
a surprisingly short while, you will be finished. And there's
something intensely satisfying about controlling pests by killing
them one by one, by hand.

The problem has become so serious (and please bear in mind I'm a
complete novice), that I am considering removing all the leaves and
seeing if it will grow again from the root (this is what I have read
about Bay Trees)....is this sensible?

The tree is already badly weakened; imo you may kill it by
defoliating it. And since scale insects also attack the younger
twigs with thin bark, removing the leaves won't entirely expunge
them.

In the future, once you've cleaned up your bay tree or replaced
it with a healthy one, it would be wise to keep an eye peeled for
reinfestation. Just check the undersides of a few leaves every
week or so; when scale appears, take action promptly.

--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

Bay Tree Problem
 

The message
from lid (Rodger Whitlock) contains these words:

In the future, once you've cleaned up your bay tree or replaced
it with a healthy one, it would be wise to keep an eye peeled for
reinfestation. Just check the undersides of a few leaves every
week or so; when scale appears, take action promptly.

And leave it outside all year round......

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/