|
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:51:29 +0000, Colonel Bloomer
wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:10:13 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote: The message from martin contains these words: Hang food under a CD. Troll. Look how many crossposts..... What group is the post inappropriate for in trying to discover the reason for house sparrow decline? uk.business.agriculture,uk.rec.birdwatching,uk.re c.gardening Apart from your post, the whole thread has fallen into my spamtrap anyway. That's because you're a prat with nothing ever worth contributing, and a troll at that. He's a ****ing A class troll buttwipe. See his other posts for attempts to destroy threads. Ignore the ****, we do. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:51:29 +0000, Colonel Bloomer
wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:10:13 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote: The message from martin contains these words: Hang food under a CD. Troll. Look how many crossposts..... What group is the post inappropriate for in trying to discover the reason for house sparrow decline? uk.business.agriculture,uk.rec.birdwatching,uk.re c.gardening Apart from your post, the whole thread has fallen into my spamtrap anyway. That's because you're a prat with nothing ever worth contributing, and a troll at that. He's a ****ing A class troll buttwipe. See his other posts for attempts to destroy threads. Ignore the ****, we do. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
"Tumbleweed" wrote in message .. . snip If magpies eat the eggs and not the adults, what would you expect to see? Sparrows calling the police? 50,000 sparrow hawks is still quite rare, people are saying there is a shortage of sparrows yet there are millions of them! -- Tumbleweed Remove my socks for email address True there are still millions of sparrows, but there are only, something like 50% of the millions there were a few years ago. Part of the problem is the perception of there being so many left that we have nothing to worry about, but it's the vast percentage decline which has people wondering what's going on. If this rate of decline were to continue then they'd be none left at all in 5-10 years. One thing I notice is not mentioned much is the vast numbers of small birds caught and killed on certain medeterranian islands, huge nets erected during migratory periods to harvest anything which flies. Great european state we live in where this would be totally illegal in one country but is fine next door. Ho hum. Duncan |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
"D Russell" wrote in message ... One thing I notice is not mentioned much is the vast numbers of small birds caught and killed on certain medeterranian islands, huge nets erected during migratory periods to harvest anything which flies. Where do you notice this? I've seen it mentioned quite a few times, and there are campaigns about this. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:20:45 +0000 (UTC), "W K"
wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:59:32 +0000 (UTC), "W K" wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . Shame the RSPB are not inclined to spend some of our millions and do some serious research into this decline They do. Really! where? You may have seen, in this thread, mention of a "Kate" researching this. She is having her research funded in part by the RSPB. http://www.birdfood.co.uk/cj/project_hssparrow.htm Not really an all guns blazing contribution is it, doubtful it even reaches four figures in total. I'd have thought given the fact they rake in £50million PA and spend £7million PA on advertising, they could afford to at least show a real interest in finding out why the situation is so serious and not only for sparrows. Better to do it before it's too late I'd suggest. The first place to start might be to look at where the populations are stable or expanding, and then see what's missing in declining regions. This should also have been carried out years ago, but I guess we're only talking about sparrers!! |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:20:45 +0000 (UTC), "W K"
wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:59:32 +0000 (UTC), "W K" wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . Shame the RSPB are not inclined to spend some of our millions and do some serious research into this decline They do. Really! where? You may have seen, in this thread, mention of a "Kate" researching this. She is having her research funded in part by the RSPB. http://www.birdfood.co.uk/cj/project_hssparrow.htm Not really an all guns blazing contribution is it, doubtful it even reaches four figures in total. I'd have thought given the fact they rake in £50million PA and spend £7million PA on advertising, they could afford to at least show a real interest in finding out why the situation is so serious and not only for sparrows. Better to do it before it's too late I'd suggest. The first place to start might be to look at where the populations are stable or expanding, and then see what's missing in declining regions. This should also have been carried out years ago, but I guess we're only talking about sparrers!! |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:20:45 +0000 (UTC), "W K"
wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:59:32 +0000 (UTC), "W K" wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . Shame the RSPB are not inclined to spend some of our millions and do some serious research into this decline They do. Really! where? You may have seen, in this thread, mention of a "Kate" researching this. She is having her research funded in part by the RSPB. http://www.birdfood.co.uk/cj/project_hssparrow.htm Not really an all guns blazing contribution is it, doubtful it even reaches four figures in total. I'd have thought given the fact they rake in £50million PA and spend £7million PA on advertising, they could afford to at least show a real interest in finding out why the situation is so serious and not only for sparrows. Better to do it before it's too late I'd suggest. The first place to start might be to look at where the populations are stable or expanding, and then see what's missing in declining regions. This should also have been carried out years ago, but I guess we're only talking about sparrers!! |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
The message
from martin contains these words: Hang food under a CD. Troll. Look how many crossposts..... Apart from your post, the whole thread has fallen into my spamtrap anyway. -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:57:44 -0000, "Tumbleweed"
wrote: "Oz" wrote in message ... ned writes Yes, contrary to popular belief, Nature is not the pretty, pretty civilised environment that some think it is. It is a harsh, cruel place to survive in. Everything has its place in the predatory chain and anything that dies of old age is mighty fortunate. Hunger will very quickly transform an opportunistic feeder to seek out an easy meal. Local spars work gardens and feeders in particular on a regular basis. The villagers are torn between having such an elegant bird and having fewer small birds (up to collared doves+). They seem to be far more effective than cats, not surprising really as flying away is no escape. snip Thats another factor, cats, though I dont know if there are more than there used to be. And windows. There must be a lot more, and a lot larger windows than say 50 years ago. Windows are responsible for huge numbers of bird deaths every year. (that Bill Gates has a lot to be balmed for) Ah - a typo. Perhaps that should read "that Bill Gates has a lot to be embalmed for". -- Peter Duncanson UK |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:59:32 +0000 (UTC), "W K"
wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . Shame the RSPB are not inclined to spend some of our millions and do some serious research into this decline They do. Really! where? |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:58:19 -0000, "D Russell"
wrote: One thing I notice is not mentioned much is the vast numbers of small birds caught and killed on certain medeterranian islands, huge nets erected during migratory periods to harvest anything which flies. There are fishermen who have done the same to fish and now see it as an EU conspiracy that there are no fish left. Great european state we live in where this would be totally illegal in one country but is fine next door. There are countries where half ****ed wonders dress up in antique clothes to shoot grouse and pheasants specially bred to be shot. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:10:13 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote: The message from martin contains these words: Hang food under a CD. Troll. Look how many crossposts..... Apart from your post, the whole thread has fallen into my spamtrap anyway. I didn't cross post. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:49:06 +0000, Peter Duncanson
wrote: Thats another factor, cats, though I dont know if there are more than there used to be. And windows. There must be a lot more, and a lot larger windows than say 50 years ago. Windows are responsible for huge numbers of bird deaths every year. (that Bill Gates has a lot to be balmed for) Ah - a typo. Perhaps that should read "that Bill Gates has a lot to be embalmed for". The Pharaohs used to embalm cats. Perhaps Bill Gates is suffering from delusions again? |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:10:13 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote: The message from martin contains these words: Hang food under a CD. Troll. Look how many crossposts..... What group is the post inappropriate for in trying to discover the reason for house sparrow decline? uk.business.agriculture,uk.rec.birdwatching,uk.rec .gardening Apart from your post, the whole thread has fallen into my spamtrap anyway. That's because you're a prat with nothing ever worth contributing, and a troll at that. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:51:29 +0000, Colonel Bloomer
wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:10:13 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote: The message from martin contains these words: Hang food under a CD. Troll. Look how many crossposts..... What group is the post inappropriate for in trying to discover the reason for house sparrow decline? uk.business.agriculture,uk.rec.birdwatching,uk.re c.gardening Apart from your post, the whole thread has fallen into my spamtrap anyway. That's because you're a prat with nothing ever worth contributing, and a troll at that. He's a ****ing A class troll buttwipe. See his other posts for attempts to destroy threads. Ignore the ****, we do. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:20:45 +0000 (UTC), "W K"
wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:59:32 +0000 (UTC), "W K" wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . Shame the RSPB are not inclined to spend some of our millions and do some serious research into this decline They do. Really! where? You may have seen, in this thread, mention of a "Kate" researching this. She is having her research funded in part by the RSPB. http://www.birdfood.co.uk/cj/project_hssparrow.htm Not really an all guns blazing contribution is it, doubtful it even reaches four figures in total. I'd have thought given the fact they rake in £50million PA and spend £7million PA on advertising, they could afford to at least show a real interest in finding out why the situation is so serious and not only for sparrows. Better to do it before it's too late I'd suggest. The first place to start might be to look at where the populations are stable or expanding, and then see what's missing in declining regions. This should also have been carried out years ago, but I guess we're only talking about sparrers!! |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
ned wrote:
Colonel Bloomer wrote: snip Maybe the buggers are getting fussy in their old age, maybe seeds aint what they used to be? Snip Or.......I have usual 4 pairs of house sparrows and 2 pair of Hedgies, 400yds away a farm buildings that always had a number of pairs of Housesparrows had none nest last year and there are very few small birds this year why....................Mobile phone mast erected 2 yrs ago, coincidence...............maybe, nothing else has changed -- -- Regards Brian H................ Walk the dogs to reply |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
In article ,
says... On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:57:44 -0000, "Tumbleweed" wrote: than say 50 years ago. Windows are responsible for huge numbers of bird deaths every year. (that Bill Gates has a lot to be balmed for) Ah - a typo. Perhaps that should read "that Bill Gates has a lot to be embalmed for". grin Good job I'd just put the cup down. -- David Visit http://www.farm-direct.co.uk for your local farmgate food supplies. FAQ's, Glossary, Farming Year and more! |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
"W K" wrote in message ... "Oz" wrote in message ... Tumbleweed writes ISTR reading a few years ago that the number of sparrow hawks had risen hugely since the 1940's, maybe to 50,000 or more, whereas 60 years ago or so they were persecuted and very few and far between. If the difference was say, 40,000 sparrowhawks between then and now, and they each ate 1 sparrow a day, that would be 14 million less sparrows a year. Plus, every day I see loads of magpies (probably 10 or 20), which I believe eat other birds eggs. When I was a kid I don't think I ever saw one. I would guess the number of magpies must have risen 10 fold in the last 30-40 years. That must account for a fair few sparrows (and similar) as well. Certainly there are lots of aphids and the like in my garden in the summer and I would have said that most gardeners nowadays used less chemicals than 30 years ago. You certainly cant have a rise in the number of predators and expect the prey to remain constant, after all isn't that the point of all this organic gardening we hear about, encouraging predators such as hoverfly and ladybirds into gardens? If that works for them, I don't see why it wouldn't work for sparrow hawks/ sparrows as well. "I don't see" Glad to see such an admission of cluenessness OK, so if you're so clued up, give us the benefit of your all-knowing wisdom, or do you just do poor sarcasm? -- Tumbleweed Remove my socks for email address |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
"D Russell" wrote in message ... "Tumbleweed" wrote in message .. . snip If magpies eat the eggs and not the adults, what would you expect to see? Sparrows calling the police? 50,000 sparrow hawks is still quite rare, people are saying there is a shortage of sparrows yet there are millions of them! -- Tumbleweed Remove my socks for email address True there are still millions of sparrows, but there are only, something like 50% of the millions there were a few years ago. Ah sorry, I didnt mean to say that wasnt an issue, but just because there's a decline doesnt mean there is a problem, as we know, the proportion of predators has risen hugely in the past decades, maybe that is part at least of the reason, rather than the usual immediate jumping to conclusions about pesticides, global warming, etc. (and not to say they arent the cause either, just lets not immediately jump to conclusions) Part of the problem is the perception of there being so many left that we have nothing to worry about, but it's the vast percentage decline which has people wondering what's going on. If this rate of decline were to continue then they'd be none left at all in 5-10 years. " In the space of one hundred and seventy six years the Lower Mississippi has shortened itself two hundred and forty-two miles. That is an average of a trifle over a mile and a third per year. Therefore, any calm person, who is not blind or idiotic, can see that in the Old Oölitic Silurian Period, just a million years ago next November, the Lower Mississippi was upwards of one million three hundred thousand miles long, and stuck out over the Gulf of Mexico like a fishing-pole. And by the same token any person can see that seven hundred and forty-two years from now the Lower Mississippi will be only a mile and three-quarters long, and Cairo [Illinois] and New Orleans will have joined their streets together and be plodding comfortably along under a single mayor and a mutual board of aldermen. There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact" [ mark Twain 1884 ] -- Tumbleweed Remove my socks for email address |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
"martin" wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:58:19 -0000, "D Russell" wrote: One thing I notice is not mentioned much is the vast numbers of small birds caught and killed on certain medeterranian islands, huge nets erected during migratory periods to harvest anything which flies. There are fishermen who have done the same to fish and now see it as an EU conspiracy that there are no fish left. Great european state we live in where this would be totally illegal in one country but is fine next door. There are countries where half ****ed wonders dress up in antique clothes to shoot grouse and pheasants specially bred to be shot. ....and the relevance of that to declines in native birds is....? -- Tumbleweed Remove my socks for email address |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:57:44 -0000, "Tumbleweed" wrote: "Oz" wrote in message ... ned writes Yes, contrary to popular belief, Nature is not the pretty, pretty civilised environment that some think it is. It is a harsh, cruel place to survive in. Everything has its place in the predatory chain and anything that dies of old age is mighty fortunate. Hunger will very quickly transform an opportunistic feeder to seek out an easy meal. Local spars work gardens and feeders in particular on a regular basis. The villagers are torn between having such an elegant bird and having fewer small birds (up to collared doves+). They seem to be far more effective than cats, not surprising really as flying away is no escape. snip Thats another factor, cats, though I dont know if there are more than there used to be. And windows. There must be a lot more, and a lot larger windows than say 50 years ago. Windows are responsible for huge numbers of bird deaths every year. (that Bill Gates has a lot to be balmed for) Ah - a typo. Perhaps that should read "that Bill Gates has a lot to be embalmed for". LOL -- Tumbleweed Remove my socks for email address |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:42:15 -0000, "Tumbleweed"
wrote: "martin" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:58:19 -0000, "D Russell" wrote: One thing I notice is not mentioned much is the vast numbers of small birds caught and killed on certain medeterranian islands, huge nets erected during migratory periods to harvest anything which flies. There are fishermen who have done the same to fish and now see it as an EU conspiracy that there are no fish left. Great european state we live in where this would be totally illegal in one country but is fine next door. There are countries where half ****ed wonders dress up in antique clothes to shoot grouse and pheasants specially bred to be shot. ...and the relevance of that to declines in native birds is....? both are totally irrelevant. Both actvities gave gone on for more than a hundred years and can not explain the sudden decline of sparrows. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:57:44 -0000, "Tumbleweed" wrote: "Oz" wrote in message ... ned writes Yes, contrary to popular belief, Nature is not the pretty, pretty civilised environment that some think it is. It is a harsh, cruel place to survive in. Everything has its place in the predatory chain and anything that dies of old age is mighty fortunate. Hunger will very quickly transform an opportunistic feeder to seek out an easy meal. Local spars work gardens and feeders in particular on a regular basis. The villagers are torn between having such an elegant bird and having fewer small birds (up to collared doves+). They seem to be far more effective than cats, not surprising really as flying away is no escape. snip Thats another factor, cats, though I dont know if there are more than there used to be. And windows. There must be a lot more, and a lot larger windows than say 50 years ago. Windows are responsible for huge numbers of bird deaths every year. (that Bill Gates has a lot to be balmed for) Ah - a typo. Perhaps that should read "that Bill Gates has a lot to be embalmed for". LOL -- Tumbleweed Remove my socks for email address |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:42:15 -0000, "Tumbleweed"
wrote: "martin" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:58:19 -0000, "D Russell" wrote: One thing I notice is not mentioned much is the vast numbers of small birds caught and killed on certain medeterranian islands, huge nets erected during migratory periods to harvest anything which flies. There are fishermen who have done the same to fish and now see it as an EU conspiracy that there are no fish left. Great european state we live in where this would be totally illegal in one country but is fine next door. There are countries where half ****ed wonders dress up in antique clothes to shoot grouse and pheasants specially bred to be shot. ...and the relevance of that to declines in native birds is....? both are totally irrelevant. Both actvities gave gone on for more than a hundred years and can not explain the sudden decline of sparrows. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
In article , Bob Hobden
writes ? wrote in message I have some news that I know you'll be interested in, Mike, about the house sparrow project. Kate rang me last night, she is now writing up her conclusions. The conclusion is, lack of aphids and invertebrates as the main cause of the house sparrow decline, lack of nestsites also. Thanks for this Christina. I have discussed this with loads of friends over the years, and all are agreed that there are far fewer flies of many kinds than ~30 years ago. The next question is why ? ((SNIP)) Not so sure about that, the only place they are in abundance near here is by our allotment site along the lane which is bordered by gardens for the old peoples bungalows. Some of these people still put bread out every day for the birds! Everyone used to do that in the old days and it was the house sparrow that got the main share. Now everyone buys expensive seed for their garden birds, perhaps part of the decline is because people have got too posh. Chickens? Large flocks of sparrows used to share food put out for laying hens. The salmonella scare, low priced supermarket eggs, less domestic waste food, fear of fox predation and perhaps longer holidays all contribute to fewer opportunities for birds long associated with human habitation. Improved hygiene requirements for the storage of food on farms both for animal and human consumption has eliminated this food source. The RSPB often refers to changes in farm practice as being responsible for the decline in many birds associated with farmland/buildings. In the case of sparrows this may be more due to *rationalisation* where many small mixed farms have become bijou country dwellings with the land going to bigger and more efficient neighbours. The buildings are still there but the poultry, cattle and sheep have gone. The riding horses that replace them are not fed ad lib and are too closely supervised for opportunistic birds. Magpies are unlikely to be involved due to the sparrows nesting preference and sparrow hawks take many small birds other than sparrows. I believe we are moving toward a revised population balance in many species that formerly relied heavily on human carelessness for their food and nest sites. regards -- Tim Lamb |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
The message
from martin contains these words: On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:10:13 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote: The message from martin contains these words: Hang food under a CD. Troll. Look how many crossposts..... Apart from your post, the whole thread has fallen into my spamtrap anyway. I didn't cross post. Sheesh! of course you didn't - or you'd have fallen in too. -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
The message
from martin contains these words: On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:10:13 GMT, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote: The message from martin contains these words: Hang food under a CD. Troll. Look how many crossposts..... Apart from your post, the whole thread has fallen into my spamtrap anyway. I didn't cross post. Sheesh! of course you didn't - or you'd have fallen in too. -- Rusty Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/ |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
"Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:20:45 +0000 (UTC), "W K" wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:59:32 +0000 (UTC), "W K" wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . Shame the RSPB are not inclined to spend some of our millions and do some serious research into this decline They do. Really! where? You may have seen, in this thread, mention of a "Kate" researching this. She is having her research funded in part by the RSPB. http://www.birdfood.co.uk/cj/project_hssparrow.htm Not really an all guns blazing contribution is it, doubtful it even reaches four figures in total. I'd have thought given the fact they rake in £50million PA and spend £7million PA on advertising, they could afford to at least show a real interest in finding out why the situation is so serious and not only for sparrows. Just out of interest, why is it 'serious'? I see many birds now that I never saw as a kid, including (perhaps not coincidentally) many species of raptors and numerous magpies. If a part of the decline is due to that, and another part due to us not having sparrows living in our house roofs, and a further part due to farmers not feeding them by scattering grain all over the fields when harvesting, then you could reasonably argue that the sparrow pop of (say) 1900-1950 was artificially boosted over what it would be in an environment with no human interference, since there would be far fewer artificial (i.e. houses) nesting sites , much less food, and many more predators, in such an environment. Maybe the 'natural' sparrow pop is closer to what it is now, than it was 50 years ago? -- Tumbleweed Remove my socks for email address Better to do it before it's too late I'd suggest. The first place to start might be to look at where the populations are stable or expanding, and then see what's missing in declining regions. This should also have been carried out years ago, but I guess we're only talking about sparrers!! |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
Xref: kermit uk.business.agricultu166185 uk.rec.birdwatching:83866 uk.rec.gardening:192696
Tumbleweed wrote: If a part of the decline is due to that, and another part due to us not having sparrows living in our house roofs, and a further part due to farmers not feeding them by scattering grain all over the fields when harvesting, then you could reasonably argue that the sparrow pop of (say) 1900-1950 was artificially boosted over what it would be in an environment with no human interference, since there would be far fewer artificial (i.e. houses) nesting sites , much less food, and many more predators, in such an environment. Maybe the 'natural' sparrow pop is closer to what it is now, than it was 50 years ago? Good point! -- Michelle Fulton Texas, USA If you aren't living on the edge, you're taking up too much space. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:55:03 -0000, "Tumbleweed"
wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:20:45 +0000 (UTC), "W K" wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:59:32 +0000 (UTC), "W K" wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . Shame the RSPB are not inclined to spend some of our millions and do some serious research into this decline They do. Really! where? You may have seen, in this thread, mention of a "Kate" researching this. She is having her research funded in part by the RSPB. http://www.birdfood.co.uk/cj/project_hssparrow.htm Not really an all guns blazing contribution is it, doubtful it even reaches four figures in total. I'd have thought given the fact they rake in £50million PA and spend £7million PA on advertising, they could afford to at least show a real interest in finding out why the situation is so serious and not only for sparrows. Just out of interest, why is it 'serious'? Because it is according to the stats and certainly in my part of south london we are noticing serious declines in sparrows, five, ten years ago there were hundreds I'm sure, now we are lucky to see a handful each day, as for thrush, blackbird etc none for ages. I see many birds now that I never saw as a kid, including (perhaps not coincidentally) many species of raptors and numerous magpies. If a part of the decline is due to that, and another part due to us not having sparrows living in our house roofs, and a further part due to farmers not feeding them by scattering grain all over the fields when harvesting, then you could reasonably argue that the sparrow pop of (say) 1900-1950 was artificially boosted over what it would be in an environment with no human interference, since there would be far fewer artificial (i.e. houses) nesting sites , much less food, and many more predators, in such an environment. Maybe the 'natural' sparrow pop is closer to what it is now, than it was 50 years ago? You make a very good point. This is why it would be nice to see some of our RSPB funding spent on serious research so that we may have a definitive answer. I feel this is a bit more than the natural yoyo cycle of populations. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
Tim Lamb writes
Improved hygiene requirements for the storage of food on farms both for animal and human consumption has eliminated this food source. Remember the seriously improved hygiene AND TIDINESS is imposed on farms by supermarket diktat. Obviously the less grain lying about the fewer birds and the fewer small rodents. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. DEMON address no longer in use. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
Tim Lamb writes
Improved hygiene requirements for the storage of food on farms both for animal and human consumption has eliminated this food source. Remember the seriously improved hygiene AND TIDINESS is imposed on farms by supermarket diktat. Obviously the less grain lying about the fewer birds and the fewer small rodents. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. DEMON address no longer in use. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:15:18 -0000, "Christina Websell"
christina.websell@zoomdotcodotuk wrote: W K wrote in message ... "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message ... doubtful it even reaches four figures in total. Funding a PhD student costs a lot more than that. Particularly if she has 600 nest boxes up. Bloomer for the killfile I fear. Kate's work has really been very impressive. She appealed on local radio at first for people who had sparrows and would be prepared to let her study them. Then the preliminary surveys of the sites offered, and then the boxes installed and visited and examined weekly. Adult roosts identified, mistnetted, and birds rung and recorded late in the evening. Birds nesting in my eaves observed using an oscilloscope. Nestboxes checked for nest material, then for eggs, then chicks rung, and weighed and also measured each week for leg length, wing length and feather growth. Faecal samples taken and analysed, both from the chicks and from droppings of the adults, scraped from my windowsills. Vegetation in gardens regularly examined for invertebrates, samples taken from hedges, trees, bushes and plants. Newsletters produced and distributed to participants and regular phone and email contact for matters of interest relating to sparrows and all this over three years. And more I don't know about, no doubt. I would suggest that this would take plenty of funding and I say well done all who funded it. RSPB/BTO etc. And well done to Kate who cares about sparrow's decline. Tina You would appear to be missing the point. Yes, kate is doing a grand job, no one claimed otherwise. The RSPB however are offering lip service to a very serious problem, this should be a national, scientific, peer reviewed study on a grand scale, we've certainly paid for it an without it the results are meaningless. this SHOULD have been done five, ten years ago. Lets hope it's not too late, certainly if we waited for the RSPB to dip into their pockets it will be. The RSPB have managed to raise over £5 million pounds to fund a ruddy duck cull that no body wants except a few twitchers obsessed with their own self importance. Surely they could put as much effort into raising the same kind of over funding for the decline in sparrows etc? Regardless it comes from RSPB coffers or tax payer, the RSPB can do it and yet have done nothing! In the meantime whilst we all wait around for them to do something, because we expect them to do something and that's what they are there for, the declines are looking pretty serious and some are talking of extinctions! You might be gullible enough to consider kate is the savior of the sparrow and nothing else needs doing. I'm not. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:15:18 -0000, "Christina Websell"
christina.websell@zoomdotcodotuk wrote: W K wrote in message ... "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message ... doubtful it even reaches four figures in total. Funding a PhD student costs a lot more than that. Particularly if she has 600 nest boxes up. Bloomer for the killfile I fear. Kate's work has really been very impressive. She appealed on local radio at first for people who had sparrows and would be prepared to let her study them. Then the preliminary surveys of the sites offered, and then the boxes installed and visited and examined weekly. Adult roosts identified, mistnetted, and birds rung and recorded late in the evening. Birds nesting in my eaves observed using an oscilloscope. Nestboxes checked for nest material, then for eggs, then chicks rung, and weighed and also measured each week for leg length, wing length and feather growth. Faecal samples taken and analysed, both from the chicks and from droppings of the adults, scraped from my windowsills. Vegetation in gardens regularly examined for invertebrates, samples taken from hedges, trees, bushes and plants. Newsletters produced and distributed to participants and regular phone and email contact for matters of interest relating to sparrows and all this over three years. And more I don't know about, no doubt. I would suggest that this would take plenty of funding and I say well done all who funded it. RSPB/BTO etc. And well done to Kate who cares about sparrow's decline. Tina You would appear to be missing the point. Yes, kate is doing a grand job, no one claimed otherwise. The RSPB however are offering lip service to a very serious problem, this should be a national, scientific, peer reviewed study on a grand scale, we've certainly paid for it an without it the results are meaningless. this SHOULD have been done five, ten years ago. Lets hope it's not too late, certainly if we waited for the RSPB to dip into their pockets it will be. The RSPB have managed to raise over £5 million pounds to fund a ruddy duck cull that no body wants except a few twitchers obsessed with their own self importance. Surely they could put as much effort into raising the same kind of over funding for the decline in sparrows etc? Regardless it comes from RSPB coffers or tax payer, the RSPB can do it and yet have done nothing! In the meantime whilst we all wait around for them to do something, because we expect them to do something and that's what they are there for, the declines are looking pretty serious and some are talking of extinctions! You might be gullible enough to consider kate is the savior of the sparrow and nothing else needs doing. I'm not. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:55:03 -0000, "Tumbleweed"
wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:20:45 +0000 (UTC), "W K" wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:59:32 +0000 (UTC), "W K" wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . Shame the RSPB are not inclined to spend some of our millions and do some serious research into this decline They do. Really! where? You may have seen, in this thread, mention of a "Kate" researching this. She is having her research funded in part by the RSPB. http://www.birdfood.co.uk/cj/project_hssparrow.htm Not really an all guns blazing contribution is it, doubtful it even reaches four figures in total. I'd have thought given the fact they rake in £50million PA and spend £7million PA on advertising, they could afford to at least show a real interest in finding out why the situation is so serious and not only for sparrows. Just out of interest, why is it 'serious'? Because it is according to the stats and certainly in my part of south london we are noticing serious declines in sparrows, five, ten years ago there were hundreds I'm sure, now we are lucky to see a handful each day, as for thrush, blackbird etc none for ages. I see many birds now that I never saw as a kid, including (perhaps not coincidentally) many species of raptors and numerous magpies. If a part of the decline is due to that, and another part due to us not having sparrows living in our house roofs, and a further part due to farmers not feeding them by scattering grain all over the fields when harvesting, then you could reasonably argue that the sparrow pop of (say) 1900-1950 was artificially boosted over what it would be in an environment with no human interference, since there would be far fewer artificial (i.e. houses) nesting sites , much less food, and many more predators, in such an environment. Maybe the 'natural' sparrow pop is closer to what it is now, than it was 50 years ago? You make a very good point. This is why it would be nice to see some of our RSPB funding spent on serious research so that we may have a definitive answer. I feel this is a bit more than the natural yoyo cycle of populations. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:56:50 -0000, "Christina Websell"
christina.websell@zoomdotcodotuk wrote: W K wrote in message ... "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:59:32 +0000 (UTC), "W K" wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . Shame the RSPB are not inclined to spend some of our millions and do some serious research into this decline They do. Really! where? You may have seen, in this thread, mention of a "Kate" researching this. She is having her research funded in part by the RSPB. http://www.birdfood.co.uk/cj/project_hssparrow.htm Indeed, Kate Vincent is/was having her study part funded by BTO/RSPB and others. After a month of two of arriving in a beat up car, she came in an RSPB van, with a helper for the hardest summer work from the RSPB. Dr Peach from RSPB came and clambered into my loft via the bathroom door the first year to see the sparrows under the eaves, and advise Kate how to go about studying them. So, yes, the RSPB are spending money on this.. And as I mentioned just a few days ago, see the house sparrows here studied for 3 years by Kate, filmed by the RSPB. (soon) Get the video (or it might be on TV, .not sure yet.) Have you even read the page at that url? It's now 2004 you know! |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:56:50 -0000, "Christina Websell"
christina.websell@zoomdotcodotuk wrote: W K wrote in message ... "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:59:32 +0000 (UTC), "W K" wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . Shame the RSPB are not inclined to spend some of our millions and do some serious research into this decline They do. Really! where? You may have seen, in this thread, mention of a "Kate" researching this. She is having her research funded in part by the RSPB. http://www.birdfood.co.uk/cj/project_hssparrow.htm Indeed, Kate Vincent is/was having her study part funded by BTO/RSPB and others. After a month of two of arriving in a beat up car, she came in an RSPB van, with a helper for the hardest summer work from the RSPB. Dr Peach from RSPB came and clambered into my loft via the bathroom door the first year to see the sparrows under the eaves, and advise Kate how to go about studying them. So, yes, the RSPB are spending money on this.. And as I mentioned just a few days ago, see the house sparrows here studied for 3 years by Kate, filmed by the RSPB. (soon) Get the video (or it might be on TV, .not sure yet.) Have you even read the page at that url? It's now 2004 you know! |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:55:03 -0000, "Tumbleweed"
wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:20:45 +0000 (UTC), "W K" wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:59:32 +0000 (UTC), "W K" wrote: "Colonel Bloomer" wrote in message .. . Shame the RSPB are not inclined to spend some of our millions and do some serious research into this decline They do. Really! where? You may have seen, in this thread, mention of a "Kate" researching this. She is having her research funded in part by the RSPB. http://www.birdfood.co.uk/cj/project_hssparrow.htm Not really an all guns blazing contribution is it, doubtful it even reaches four figures in total. I'd have thought given the fact they rake in £50million PA and spend £7million PA on advertising, they could afford to at least show a real interest in finding out why the situation is so serious and not only for sparrows. Just out of interest, why is it 'serious'? Because it is according to the stats and certainly in my part of south london we are noticing serious declines in sparrows, five, ten years ago there were hundreds I'm sure, now we are lucky to see a handful each day, as for thrush, blackbird etc none for ages. I see many birds now that I never saw as a kid, including (perhaps not coincidentally) many species of raptors and numerous magpies. If a part of the decline is due to that, and another part due to us not having sparrows living in our house roofs, and a further part due to farmers not feeding them by scattering grain all over the fields when harvesting, then you could reasonably argue that the sparrow pop of (say) 1900-1950 was artificially boosted over what it would be in an environment with no human interference, since there would be far fewer artificial (i.e. houses) nesting sites , much less food, and many more predators, in such an environment. Maybe the 'natural' sparrow pop is closer to what it is now, than it was 50 years ago? You make a very good point. This is why it would be nice to see some of our RSPB funding spent on serious research so that we may have a definitive answer. I feel this is a bit more than the natural yoyo cycle of populations. |
Lack of invertebrates / house sparrows (was Reed Buntings)
Tim Lamb writes
Improved hygiene requirements for the storage of food on farms both for animal and human consumption has eliminated this food source. Remember the seriously improved hygiene AND TIDINESS is imposed on farms by supermarket diktat. Obviously the less grain lying about the fewer birds and the fewer small rodents. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. DEMON address no longer in use. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:26 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
GardenBanter