On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:31:15 GMT, Tom Redpath wrote:

Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener
atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice.
I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly
unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure
whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply
put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs...
Anyone have any hints and tips?

There's another approach: view your existing patio as a planting
opportunity. There are certain plants that grow very well in
patio cracks and not very well in nearly any other position.

Nierembergia rivularis is the primary example I can give you.
It's long dead out in the open garden, but in my patio's cracks,
it thrives and goes from strength to strength, with a very long
flowering period in summer, a low mat of leaves stuff the cracks
adorned with large bright-white flowers.


If all you really want is a level patio, another approach is to
lift the slabs comprising the existing one, and re-lay them with
sand underneath to get them level. This retains the cracks, and
may save a fair bit of money as well, though it's not easy work.

(I'm assuming here that you have a patio of poured concrete.)


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

I don't know where you got the idea that laying on sand is for
professionals only. I did it with no more instructions than the
knowledge it was possible. It wasn't hard.

You need to remember to leave a small hollow under the middle of each
slab, to allow for a gentle tamping down to level.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it
will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

The ground floors of my late uncle's house were pamments laid on sand,
as were the floors in my parents' place.

I don't know when the pamments were laid, but the houses dated
(respectively) from about 1000 AD and 1500 AD

Personally, I'd use sand.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:31:15 GMT, Tom Redpath wrote:

Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener
atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice.
I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly
unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure
whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply
put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs...
Anyone have any hints and tips?

There's another approach: view your existing patio as a planting
opportunity. There are certain plants that grow very well in
patio cracks and not very well in nearly any other position.

Nierembergia rivularis is the primary example I can give you.
It's long dead out in the open garden, but in my patio's cracks,
it thrives and goes from strength to strength, with a very long
flowering period in summer, a low mat of leaves stuff the cracks
adorned with large bright-white flowers.


If all you really want is a level patio, another approach is to
lift the slabs comprising the existing one, and re-lay them with
sand underneath to get them level. This retains the cracks, and
may save a fair bit of money as well, though it's not easy work.

(I'm assuming here that you have a patio of poured concrete.)


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

I don't know where you got the idea that laying on sand is for
professionals only. I did it with no more instructions than the
knowledge it was possible. It wasn't hard.

You need to remember to leave a small hollow under the middle of each
slab, to allow for a gentle tamping down to level.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it
will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

The ground floors of my late uncle's house were pamments laid on sand,
as were the floors in my parents' place.

I don't know when the pamments were laid, but the houses dated
(respectively) from about 1000 AD and 1500 AD

Personally, I'd use sand.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:31:15 GMT, Tom Redpath wrote:

Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener
atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice.
I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly
unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure
whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply
put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs...
Anyone have any hints and tips?

There's another approach: view your existing patio as a planting
opportunity. There are certain plants that grow very well in
patio cracks and not very well in nearly any other position.

Nierembergia rivularis is the primary example I can give you.
It's long dead out in the open garden, but in my patio's cracks,
it thrives and goes from strength to strength, with a very long
flowering period in summer, a low mat of leaves stuff the cracks
adorned with large bright-white flowers.


If all you really want is a level patio, another approach is to
lift the slabs comprising the existing one, and re-lay them with
sand underneath to get them level. This retains the cracks, and
may save a fair bit of money as well, though it's not easy work.

(I'm assuming here that you have a patio of poured concrete.)


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

On 23 Mar 2004 13:45:57 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:


In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

Um, wouldn't there be different considerations when laying over a
cement slab rather than directly onto the ground?

In article ,
Frogleg wrote:
On 23 Mar 2004 13:45:57 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

Um, wouldn't there be different considerations when laying over a
cement slab rather than directly onto the ground?

Slightly different, yes. For example, the original posting said that
the slab was cracked, which indicates that shifting should be expected.
Hence sand is a good idea. If it hadn't cracked in half a century,
then shifting would not be expected.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Frogleg wrote:
On 23 Mar 2004 13:45:57 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

Um, wouldn't there be different considerations when laying over a
cement slab rather than directly onto the ground?

Slightly different, yes. For example, the original posting said that
the slab was cracked, which indicates that shifting should be expected.
Hence sand is a good idea. If it hadn't cracked in half a century,
then shifting would not be expected.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Hello Tom,
I'm not a builder, so I can't advise you on re-making your patio.
However, as a practical householder I suggest you check the level of your
damp-proof course ('DPC' in builders' speak).
Any outdoor surface must be laid two brick courses (or more) below the DPC
to prevent damp seeping into the house. This is a building regulation.
Ignore it and you may invalidate your Buildings (and possibly Contents)
insurance.
If your current patio is already two brick courses below the DPC, then you
will need to break up and remove the old concrete before laying anything
else. This (I imagine) is bound to have some effect on how you proceed.
Spider



Tom Redpath wrote in message
s.com...
Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener
atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice.
I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly
unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure
whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply
put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs...
Anyone have any hints and tips?
--
Tom Redpath
------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted via www.GardenBanter.co.uk

Thanks, there is a trench about 18'' wide between house and patio so i should be OK. the concensus seems to be sand alone should be fine so I'll give it a go! Thanks for all the advice!