New Patio on Old Concrete
 

Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice. I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs... Anyone have any hints and tips?

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

In article m,
Tom Redpath writes:
| Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener
| atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice.
| I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly
| unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure
| whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply
| put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs...
| Anyone have any hints and tips?

The latter is fine, if increasing the height by 3-4" will not cause a
problem.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article m,
Tom Redpath writes:
Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice
gardener atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate
some advice. I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked
and slightly unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with
flags but am unsure whether I would need to rip up the old patio,
screed it level or simply put down a good layer of sand to level it
off before laying slabs... Anyone have any hints and tips?

The latter is fine, if increasing the height by 3-4" will not cause a
problem.


Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it will wash
out and ants will move it.

Better to either use a proper dry mix of sharp sand and cement -

pk

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

| Better to either use a proper dry mix of sharp sand and cement -

Which is quite likely to crack in its turn, thus leaving you with
an even thicker mass of concrete to deal with. Also, if you have
any services underneath, or don't know that you don't, laying on
sand allows access with low hassle.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

In article m,
Tom Redpath writes:
| Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener
| atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice.
| I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly
| unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure
| whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply
| put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs...
| Anyone have any hints and tips?

The latter is fine, if increasing the height by 3-4" will not cause a
problem.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article m,
Tom Redpath writes:
Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice
gardener atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate
some advice. I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked
and slightly unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with
flags but am unsure whether I would need to rip up the old patio,
screed it level or simply put down a good layer of sand to level it
off before laying slabs... Anyone have any hints and tips?

The latter is fine, if increasing the height by 3-4" will not cause a
problem.


Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it will wash
out and ants will move it.

Better to either use a proper dry mix of sharp sand and cement -

pk

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
"PK" writes:

Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it
will wash out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

Cormaic:
The flagstones can be bedded directly onto a coarse, grit sand bed, approx
40mm thick.
DO NOT USE BUILDING SAND - it is to soft and can become 'fluid' when
waterlogged, consequently moving beneath the flags, causing settlement.
The bedding material can be stiffened by the addition of a small quantity of
cement, around a 10:1 mix is adequate. This is useful when working in wet
areas, or where the movement of ground water could lead to bed migration,
and we find it useful beneath the thinner patio flags as it gives the
finished pavement a bit more solidity. Refer to Mortars & Concretes Page for
details on a cementitious bedding mix.

I'd agree a professional paver using sand alone will do a robust job, a
first time amateur i'd alaway recommend a lean mix mortar to avond needing
to bed each slap to a firm level.

pk

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

In article m,
Tom Redpath writes:
| Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener
| atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice.
| I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly
| unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure
| whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply
| put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs...
| Anyone have any hints and tips?

The latter is fine, if increasing the height by 3-4" will not cause a
problem.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article m,
Tom Redpath writes:
Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice
gardener atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate
some advice. I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked
and slightly unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with
flags but am unsure whether I would need to rip up the old patio,
screed it level or simply put down a good layer of sand to level it
off before laying slabs... Anyone have any hints and tips?

The latter is fine, if increasing the height by 3-4" will not cause a
problem.


Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it will wash
out and ants will move it.

Better to either use a proper dry mix of sharp sand and cement -

pk

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

| Better to either use a proper dry mix of sharp sand and cement -

Which is quite likely to crack in its turn, thus leaving you with
an even thicker mass of concrete to deal with. Also, if you have
any services underneath, or don't know that you don't, laying on
sand allows access with low hassle.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

In article m,
Tom Redpath writes:
| Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener
| atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice.
| I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly
| unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure
| whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply
| put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs...
| Anyone have any hints and tips?

The latter is fine, if increasing the height by 3-4" will not cause a
problem.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article m,
Tom Redpath writes:
Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice
gardener atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate
some advice. I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked
and slightly unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with
flags but am unsure whether I would need to rip up the old patio,
screed it level or simply put down a good layer of sand to level it
off before laying slabs... Anyone have any hints and tips?

The latter is fine, if increasing the height by 3-4" will not cause a
problem.


Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it will wash
out and ants will move it.

Better to either use a proper dry mix of sharp sand and cement -

pk

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

| Better to either use a proper dry mix of sharp sand and cement -

Which is quite likely to crack in its turn, thus leaving you with
an even thicker mass of concrete to deal with. Also, if you have
any services underneath, or don't know that you don't, laying on
sand allows access with low hassle.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
"PK" writes:

Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it
will wash out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

Cormaic:
The flagstones can be bedded directly onto a coarse, grit sand bed, approx
40mm thick.
DO NOT USE BUILDING SAND - it is to soft and can become 'fluid' when
waterlogged, consequently moving beneath the flags, causing settlement.
The bedding material can be stiffened by the addition of a small quantity of
cement, around a 10:1 mix is adequate. This is useful when working in wet
areas, or where the movement of ground water could lead to bed migration,
and we find it useful beneath the thinner patio flags as it gives the
finished pavement a bit more solidity. Refer to Mortars & Concretes Page for
details on a cementitious bedding mix.

I'd agree a professional paver using sand alone will do a robust job, a
first time amateur i'd alaway recommend a lean mix mortar to avond needing
to bed each slap to a firm level.

pk

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
"PK" writes:

Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it
will wash out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

Cormaic:
The flagstones can be bedded directly onto a coarse, grit sand bed, approx
40mm thick.
DO NOT USE BUILDING SAND - it is to soft and can become 'fluid' when
waterlogged, consequently moving beneath the flags, causing settlement.
The bedding material can be stiffened by the addition of a small quantity of
cement, around a 10:1 mix is adequate. This is useful when working in wet
areas, or where the movement of ground water could lead to bed migration,
and we find it useful beneath the thinner patio flags as it gives the
finished pavement a bit more solidity. Refer to Mortars & Concretes Page for
details on a cementitious bedding mix.

I'd agree a professional paver using sand alone will do a robust job, a
first time amateur i'd alaway recommend a lean mix mortar to avond needing
to bed each slap to a firm level.

pk

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| I'd agree a professional paver using sand alone will do a robust job, a
| first time amateur i'd alaway recommend a lean mix mortar to avond needing
| to bed each slap to a firm level.

I wouldn't. When you realise, 6 months later, that you had forgotten
something critical, want to extend the patio, or the patio cracks
(NOT unlikely if the previous one did), you have a major problem.
With sand, you Just Redo It.

I don't know where you got the idea that laying on sand is for
professionals only. I did it with no more instructions than the
knowledge it was possible. It wasn't hard.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| I'd agree a professional paver using sand alone will do a robust job, a
| first time amateur i'd alaway recommend a lean mix mortar to avond needing
| to bed each slap to a firm level.

I wouldn't. When you realise, 6 months later, that you had forgotten
something critical, want to extend the patio, or the patio cracks
(NOT unlikely if the previous one did), you have a major problem.
With sand, you Just Redo It.

I don't know where you got the idea that laying on sand is for
professionals only. I did it with no more instructions than the
knowledge it was possible. It wasn't hard.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

"Tom Redpath" wrote in message
s.com...
Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener
atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice.
I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly
unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure
whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply
put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs...
Anyone have any hints and tips?
--
Tom Redpath

Tom. I am not a gardener on the plant and seed side. Her out of doors is
that. 'My' gardening is making paths, putting fences up etc etc etc.

We had a dreadful uneven and cracked concrete area outside out new patio
doors. Got a man to come and give us an estimate to make a nice new slabbed
area. He came, looked at it and said 'I will have to bring my mate round to
help me quote. Be back on Tuesday'

I don't know why, but I assumed it would be the next Tuesday. Silly me. That
was last year and he didn't come, maybe he means the corresponding Tuesday
this year;-}

Tom I measured up how many slabs I wanted, had them delivered with some bags
of sand, started in one corner, making up with sand here, and bashing away
the concrete there. Concentrated on one slab at a time. Level this way,
slight fall that way.

The most slabs I laid in a day was 4.

Got it done in about 2 months, bit at a time, including making five brick
steps to take into account of the rise of the land.

Main patio area outside patio door, 8 2'x2' wide and 4 2'x2' deep.

2 steps each of 2 2'x2' slabs wide, slab path of 5 2'x2' and another path of
8 2'x2'

51 slabs

If I can do it with a bad back and arthritis in both knees, anyone can do
it.
(If you are on the Isle of Wight you can come and see it;-}

Mike

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

"Tom Redpath" wrote in message
s.com...
Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener
atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice.
I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly
unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure
whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply
put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs...
Anyone have any hints and tips?
--
Tom Redpath

Tom. I am not a gardener on the plant and seed side. Her out of doors is
that. 'My' gardening is making paths, putting fences up etc etc etc.

We had a dreadful uneven and cracked concrete area outside out new patio
doors. Got a man to come and give us an estimate to make a nice new slabbed
area. He came, looked at it and said 'I will have to bring my mate round to
help me quote. Be back on Tuesday'

I don't know why, but I assumed it would be the next Tuesday. Silly me. That
was last year and he didn't come, maybe he means the corresponding Tuesday
this year;-}

Tom I measured up how many slabs I wanted, had them delivered with some bags
of sand, started in one corner, making up with sand here, and bashing away
the concrete there. Concentrated on one slab at a time. Level this way,
slight fall that way.

The most slabs I laid in a day was 4.

Got it done in about 2 months, bit at a time, including making five brick
steps to take into account of the rise of the land.

Main patio area outside patio door, 8 2'x2' wide and 4 2'x2' deep.

2 steps each of 2 2'x2' slabs wide, slab path of 5 2'x2' and another path of
8 2'x2'

51 slabs

If I can do it with a bad back and arthritis in both knees, anyone can do
it.
(If you are on the Isle of Wight you can come and see it;-}

Mike

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

I don't know where you got the idea that laying on sand is for
professionals only. I did it with no more instructions than the
knowledge it was possible. It wasn't hard.

You need to remember to leave a small hollow under the middle of each
slab, to allow for a gentle tamping down to level.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it
will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

The ground floors of my late uncle's house were pamments laid on sand,
as were the floors in my parents' place.

I don't know when the pamments were laid, but the houses dated
(respectively) from about 1000 AD and 1500 AD

Personally, I'd use sand.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

I don't know where you got the idea that laying on sand is for
professionals only. I did it with no more instructions than the
knowledge it was possible. It wasn't hard.

You need to remember to leave a small hollow under the middle of each
slab, to allow for a gentle tamping down to level.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it
will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

The ground floors of my late uncle's house were pamments laid on sand,
as were the floors in my parents' place.

I don't know when the pamments were laid, but the houses dated
(respectively) from about 1000 AD and 1500 AD

Personally, I'd use sand.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

I don't know where you got the idea that laying on sand is for
professionals only. I did it with no more instructions than the
knowledge it was possible. It wasn't hard.

You need to remember to leave a small hollow under the middle of each
slab, to allow for a gentle tamping down to level.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it
will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

The ground floors of my late uncle's house were pamments laid on sand,
as were the floors in my parents' place.

I don't know when the pamments were laid, but the houses dated
(respectively) from about 1000 AD and 1500 AD

Personally, I'd use sand.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

I don't know where you got the idea that laying on sand is for
professionals only. I did it with no more instructions than the
knowledge it was possible. It wasn't hard.

You need to remember to leave a small hollow under the middle of each
slab, to allow for a gentle tamping down to level.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it
will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

The ground floors of my late uncle's house were pamments laid on sand,
as were the floors in my parents' place.

I don't know when the pamments were laid, but the houses dated
(respectively) from about 1000 AD and 1500 AD

Personally, I'd use sand.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:31:15 GMT, Tom Redpath wrote:

Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener
atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice.
I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly
unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure
whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply
put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs...
Anyone have any hints and tips?

There's another approach: view your existing patio as a planting
opportunity. There are certain plants that grow very well in
patio cracks and not very well in nearly any other position.

Nierembergia rivularis is the primary example I can give you.
It's long dead out in the open garden, but in my patio's cracks,
it thrives and goes from strength to strength, with a very long
flowering period in summer, a low mat of leaves stuff the cracks
adorned with large bright-white flowers.


If all you really want is a level patio, another approach is to
lift the slabs comprising the existing one, and re-lay them with
sand underneath to get them level. This retains the cracks, and
may save a fair bit of money as well, though it's not easy work.

(I'm assuming here that you have a patio of poured concrete.)


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:31:15 GMT, Tom Redpath wrote:

Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener
atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice.
I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly
unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure
whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply
put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs...
Anyone have any hints and tips?

There's another approach: view your existing patio as a planting
opportunity. There are certain plants that grow very well in
patio cracks and not very well in nearly any other position.

Nierembergia rivularis is the primary example I can give you.
It's long dead out in the open garden, but in my patio's cracks,
it thrives and goes from strength to strength, with a very long
flowering period in summer, a low mat of leaves stuff the cracks
adorned with large bright-white flowers.


If all you really want is a level patio, another approach is to
lift the slabs comprising the existing one, and re-lay them with
sand underneath to get them level. This retains the cracks, and
may save a fair bit of money as well, though it's not easy work.

(I'm assuming here that you have a patio of poured concrete.)


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:31:15 GMT, Tom Redpath wrote:

Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener
atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice.
I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly
unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure
whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply
put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs...
Anyone have any hints and tips?

There's another approach: view your existing patio as a planting
opportunity. There are certain plants that grow very well in
patio cracks and not very well in nearly any other position.

Nierembergia rivularis is the primary example I can give you.
It's long dead out in the open garden, but in my patio's cracks,
it thrives and goes from strength to strength, with a very long
flowering period in summer, a low mat of leaves stuff the cracks
adorned with large bright-white flowers.


If all you really want is a level patio, another approach is to
lift the slabs comprising the existing one, and re-lay them with
sand underneath to get them level. This retains the cracks, and
may save a fair bit of money as well, though it's not easy work.

(I'm assuming here that you have a patio of poured concrete.)


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:31:15 GMT, Tom Redpath wrote:

Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener
atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice.
I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly
unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure
whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply
put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs...
Anyone have any hints and tips?

There's another approach: view your existing patio as a planting
opportunity. There are certain plants that grow very well in
patio cracks and not very well in nearly any other position.

Nierembergia rivularis is the primary example I can give you.
It's long dead out in the open garden, but in my patio's cracks,
it thrives and goes from strength to strength, with a very long
flowering period in summer, a low mat of leaves stuff the cracks
adorned with large bright-white flowers.


If all you really want is a level patio, another approach is to
lift the slabs comprising the existing one, and re-lay them with
sand underneath to get them level. This retains the cracks, and
may save a fair bit of money as well, though it's not easy work.

(I'm assuming here that you have a patio of poured concrete.)


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

I don't know where you got the idea that laying on sand is for
professionals only. I did it with no more instructions than the
knowledge it was possible. It wasn't hard.

You need to remember to leave a small hollow under the middle of each
slab, to allow for a gentle tamping down to level.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it
will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

The ground floors of my late uncle's house were pamments laid on sand,
as were the floors in my parents' place.

I don't know when the pamments were laid, but the houses dated
(respectively) from about 1000 AD and 1500 AD

Personally, I'd use sand.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:31:15 GMT, Tom Redpath wrote:

Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener
atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice.
I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly
unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure
whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply
put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs...
Anyone have any hints and tips?

There's another approach: view your existing patio as a planting
opportunity. There are certain plants that grow very well in
patio cracks and not very well in nearly any other position.

Nierembergia rivularis is the primary example I can give you.
It's long dead out in the open garden, but in my patio's cracks,
it thrives and goes from strength to strength, with a very long
flowering period in summer, a low mat of leaves stuff the cracks
adorned with large bright-white flowers.


If all you really want is a level patio, another approach is to
lift the slabs comprising the existing one, and re-lay them with
sand underneath to get them level. This retains the cracks, and
may save a fair bit of money as well, though it's not easy work.

(I'm assuming here that you have a patio of poured concrete.)


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

I don't know where you got the idea that laying on sand is for
professionals only. I did it with no more instructions than the
knowledge it was possible. It wasn't hard.

You need to remember to leave a small hollow under the middle of each
slab, to allow for a gentle tamping down to level.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it
will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

The ground floors of my late uncle's house were pamments laid on sand,
as were the floors in my parents' place.

I don't know when the pamments were laid, but the houses dated
(respectively) from about 1000 AD and 1500 AD

Personally, I'd use sand.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:31:15 GMT, Tom Redpath wrote:

Good Afternoon, I have not posted here before but as a novice gardener
atemmpting my first big project I would really appreciate some advice.
I have just moved into a property with an old, cracked and slightly
unevenr concrete patio. I want to relay this with flags but am unsure
whether I would need to rip up the old patio, screed it level or simply
put down a good layer of sand to level it off before laying slabs...
Anyone have any hints and tips?

There's another approach: view your existing patio as a planting
opportunity. There are certain plants that grow very well in
patio cracks and not very well in nearly any other position.

Nierembergia rivularis is the primary example I can give you.
It's long dead out in the open garden, but in my patio's cracks,
it thrives and goes from strength to strength, with a very long
flowering period in summer, a low mat of leaves stuff the cracks
adorned with large bright-white flowers.


If all you really want is a level patio, another approach is to
lift the slabs comprising the existing one, and re-lay them with
sand underneath to get them level. This retains the cracks, and
may save a fair bit of money as well, though it's not easy work.

(I'm assuming here that you have a patio of poured concrete.)


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

On 23 Mar 2004 13:45:57 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:


In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

Um, wouldn't there be different considerations when laying over a
cement slab rather than directly onto the ground?

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

In article ,
Frogleg wrote:
On 23 Mar 2004 13:45:57 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

Um, wouldn't there be different considerations when laying over a
cement slab rather than directly onto the ground?

Slightly different, yes. For example, the original posting said that
the slab was cracked, which indicates that shifting should be expected.
Hence sand is a good idea. If it hadn't cracked in half a century,
then shifting would not be expected.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

New Patio on Old Concrete
 

In article ,
Frogleg wrote:
On 23 Mar 2004 13:45:57 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:
In article ,
"PK" writes:
|
| Yes and no! Sand alone will not make a secure long term base - it will wash
| out and ants will move it.

Er, no. See Cormaic's pages. When done right, it will last for
decades and often centuries. For millennia, you need a better
construction.

Um, wouldn't there be different considerations when laying over a
cement slab rather than directly onto the ground?

Slightly different, yes. For example, the original posting said that
the slab was cracked, which indicates that shifting should be expected.
Hence sand is a good idea. If it hadn't cracked in half a century,
then shifting would not be expected.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.